BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 02:41 PM

Stupid, Keith. As ever.

Just quoting your own MPs and Guardian Steve. Why is that "stupid" ?

Jim,
who have defended Tory paedofiles and sex pests (quotes available on request)

YES PLEASE JIM. And all the others please.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: bobad
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 02:24 PM

If you thought it couldn't get any worse for Labour well it just has.

Utterly shameful. Another to add to the long list of Jeremy Corbyn’s anti-Semitic associations.

The woman who vandalized one of the few remaining portions of the Warsaw ghetto with “Free Gaza and Palestine” will address the Momentum Festival with Jeremy Corbyn this month.

Warsaw ghetto vandal to speak at Momentum’s Corbyn festival

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 02:06 PM

"Incidentally Ians
The man you have claimed shoult have the right to free speech......................"

Can you not get it through your thick head that the only person raising the subject of tommy robinson is yourself. You are obsessed by the man.
You also forget that free speech has consequences, despite UN and EU human rights legislation. In Europe freedom of expression carries responsibilities. As always you demonstrate that you know nothing.

https://www.economicvoice.com/is-freedom-of-expression-under-attack-in-the-uk/

You seem to advocate that you can say what you like without consequences but all other dissent should be muted or destroyed. Where does that place you on the political spectrum? You are an extremist and anglophobe of the worst kind.
Look at your ludicrous post earlier today. One law for you, one for everyone else. You would be a joke if you were not so dangerous.
"It's pretty futile asking people who express Islamophobic views in the form of "cultural implants" (quotes available on request) or support the selling of fighter planes to terrorist states who use them on third world impoverished people (quotes available on request, or who have defended Tory paedofiles and sex pests (quotes available on request) or described Irish children as having been brainwashed (quotes available on request) or described Northern Irish sectarian marches as "pleasant days out (quotes available on request) or blamed three days of Northern Ireland rioting on schoolchildren (quotes available on request), or described travellers as "slave owners" (quotes available on request)...... or expressed some of the most extreme views ever expressed on this forum (quotes available on request)..... to desist from using terms like "extreme left...
It is eequally futile to ask such people exactly what they mean by "extreme left"

CAN I PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE ASK THAT, UNLESS THEY ARE HELL BENT ON GETTING YET ANOTHER THREAD CLOSED, CAN THEY PLEASE NOT RESPOND TO THIS PROVOCATIVE LANGUAGE

Do you actually read anything before posting?If you do not want a response you do not like do not be provocative. It is simply trolling.

Here is a little gem from the gruniard many years ago, but still relevant


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/21/freedom-of-speech-online-witch-hunts-law--bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 01:42 PM

The TUC have voted to campaign for a new vote on Brexit if May doesn't get a good enough deal
That should shake things up in the right places
Meanwhile, back at the asylum
Johnson continues to get a kicking from senior Tories for comparing May's Brexit proposals as a suicide bomb
Anin'cha proud to be an extremist in these times !!!
Britain's future - what future??
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 01:31 PM

Stupid, Keith. As ever.

I could agree with most of that, Raedwulf. When I kicked the thread off I was wondering when someone would cast doubt on the very concept of centre ground. It seems to mean whatever you want it to mean, and the term is gleefully usurped by establishment politicos in order to accord themselves some gravitas, some respectability. And if you're not in it, you're definitely non-U. You hit the nail on the head when you say that UK centre ground is somewhat at variance with US centre ground. I wonder what the Chinese see as centre ground...

I don't agree that votes are ever wasted or meaningless. Sixteen million "meaningless" votes mean that brexit stays on the table and is not a given. Labour not quite managing to ditch Theresa May, but gaining far more seats than expected, fired enough warning shots across the bows of the political establishment to very likely to change politics forever in this country. Their reaction, to redouble their efforts to demonise Corbyn, shows that they no longer feel secure.

And my personal politics are definitely not of the past. Marriage, mortgage, kids, schools, home ownership, ISAs... Come off it!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 01:09 PM

Pete, no-one could complain about your party set up.

Dave,
How is it that Labour, a left wing party, can be infiltrated by the left wing?

That would be silly. It is said by numerous Labour MPs and peers to have been infiltrated agin by the Far left as it was in the 80s.

BWM,
So, to Right-Wing Extremists like our resident trolls, to whom their own Right-Wing views are regarded as 'the norm', anyone of the centre might well appear to be Far-Left

I am a centrist or even Centre-Left like most Labour MPs.

All of you, I am only quoting what Labour MPs and peers are saying.

The Left Wing Guardian on Umunna,
"The Streatham MP, one of the leading backbenchers from the party’s centre-left, previously said people with his views were being forced out of Labour under Jeremy Corbyn, and he urged the leader to “call off the dogs”. "
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/09/chuka-umunna-labour-is-institutionally-racist

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Raedwulf
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 12:59 PM

Mmmm… I'm not a Labour voter, I'm not an Anyone voter, because I'm dreadfully cynical. I vote Green as a protest vote, knowing that FPTP means my vote is & always has been meaningless. I can happily vote Green knowing they will never stand a chance. If I thought they did, I would reconsider because, their environmentalism aside, they esposuse the old-school Socialism that Steve might still believe in, but I never did, and certainly not in the modern global world.

I don't vote LAB, I don't vote CON. If I don't have GRE on the ballot paper, I don't normally vote at all. The best you can hope for from me is that I vote AGAINST someone. And that some voters think that way ought to be a fairly damning condemnation of what we have. All that aside, I can't improve by one word Steve's opening rant, if rant it be. But centre ground? I'm not so sure of that. And the gods help America where the centre ground, seemingly is No Man's Land, a shell-blasted desert where nothing lives, except furtively.

What alarms me, and insofar as I can muster a single shit to give, is not the loss of "centre", it's the polarisation. The UK is nowhere near as bad as, to a Yook, the Yoos seems to be. But we've been drifting that way for the last few decades, and it isn't a pretty vista. The Liberals have been a wasted vote for a century in the UK. They will never form a government again. It may well be the case that centrist politics, whether it be UK-centre or much-further-to-the-right US-centre, no longer appeals to anyone.

But do we really need the "Yah Boo Sucks" infant playground 5 year old mentality of politics that we've had these last years? Of course, we have Trump now. Five year old has been reduced to three year old. How much further can the bar sink...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 12:56 PM

Incidentally Ians
The man you have claimed shoult have the right to free speech

From the Breivik killings reportage

"Paul Ray of The Knights Templars and ex member of the English Defence League has not only claimed that he was in touch with Breitvik, but also said he (Ray) provided the inspiration for the bombing - can't get any closer to a claim of responsibility than that.
On Brite who has been in contact with Breitvik via a psuedo-military chat site on the Net, in one memorable quote, says "he seemed like a nice bloke.
"why have there been no claims from the racists who wish to bring this topic to the fore and see an end to immigration from muslim countries?"
"Leader of the league, Tommy Robinson condemns the killings "but he does not want to decry the beliefs that led to Breivik's actions.... "the slaughter might wake Europeans up"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 12:09 PM

"The Idiot-Boy-Trolls have got y'all going again!"
Nash - I'm trying to cut an acre of wet grass and I thought I'd take on something easy during the breaks
If I were a believer I would have forgiven God for creating evil people because he carefully made them all stupid
Why does the phrase "can't walk and chew gum at the same time" keep springing to mind, I wonder

"Hurricanes hardly ever happen"
In "In Hertford, Hereford, and Hampshire halfwits quite often happen, it would appear
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 12:02 PM

Funny innit. Old Atlee is now revered as the founder of the welfare state, the NHS and many another Good Thing, and if it moved he nationalised it. If Jeremy Corbyn suggested doing a quarter of what Atlee did they'd put him on the next boat to Russia. Yet Atlee is revered whereas poor old Jezza is attacked from all sides, Tories, Libdems, half of his own parliamentary party, Trump, Jews, Bibi, Daily Mail and ten others - then Chukka tells HIM to call off HIS dogs! Of all that lot, the Labour MPs are by far the worst. They might as well just hand the keys to Number Ten to the Tories right now and tell them it's theirs for fifteen more years. They don't care whether the Tories get in - which means they don't give a stuff for the ordinary people of this country. Those are the people who brainless Keith loves to quote. Yet they are the ones who are likely to condemn the ordinary people of this country to hardship for a generation. They are the real ideologues in all this, not Corbyn. If they threw in the towel and worked with Corbyn with a will instead of looking for sticks to beat him with, we'd have that "centre ground" all to ourselves. He was democratically elected and he increased our membership by half a million. He kicked Theresa May in the nuts last year and he can do it again, bigger and better next time. In fact, the more the Tories and their online poodles such as our two Usual Clowns think that they can get him with their attack dogs, the mightier he's likely to become. Bring it on!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 11:59 AM

Hurricanes hardly ever happen there, at least none are predicted...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 11:48 AM

Hereford should, of course, be Hertford. Bloody iPad predictive text!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 11:47 AM

Of course, and as I've said before elsewhere, an individual's perception of another's political position depends greatly on the position the perceiver starts from. So, to Right-Wing Extremists like our resident trolls, to whom their own Right-Wing views are regarded as 'the norm', anyone of the centre might well appear to be Far-Left.

Hence the spectacle of The Troll of Hereford, despite my having explained my centre-ground Liberal/Lib-Dem voting record at every election of every kind since 1965, my one-time membership of the party, and being given my reasons for voting Labour since being betrayed by the Lib-Dems in 2010, shreiking like some demented fishwife that I'm 'a liar', and that I'm a 'Far-Left Extremist'

Which, of course, says far more about him, and about his own Far-Right Extremist starting position than it says about me.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 11:33 AM

Detail should of course read derail.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 11:29 AM

I did say I would remind you, Jim. Don't feed the trolls!

Back to the discussion though. How is it that Labour, a left wing party, can be infiltrated by the left wing? Where were all these people who now wish to stop the left wing takeover when the right wing surreptitiously took over the Labour party? Little wonder that they are now running scared and doing their best to detail the journey back to where it should be. How come they are not worried about the Tory party being taken over by neo-nazis and racists? May I suggest it is because that is what they want...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 11:27 AM

Jimmy this is you!
But there are some that only understand a part of an argument, take the wrong end of the stick, have a totally erroneous take on what was actually said and fire off the hip without further thought, while hurling insults with gay abandon.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 11:13 AM

there are a few people in my local labour party branch who have joined fairly recently having been party members in the past. we are all 50= and suport the labour party. for myself i feel this may be my last chance to see a government that isn't dominated by tory ideas and offers a more hopeful and progressive agenda. we have been very careful to give long standing members all due respect for their efforts and they have been very friendly and accepting of us new members (though we all wish more younger folk would turn up to meetings and get involved) our branch meetings are more lively each month and there is really no animosity. our MP is in the shadow cabinet - doing her 3rd job for Jeremy Corbyn and is very hard working and popular in the area (which is leave supporting with plenty of problems with tommy robinson types) she is (eg) pro nuclear and trident which many of us do not support but she is clearly a good person working hard for a labour government. she has our full support.   

now, i'm not saying that this is the picture all over the country - i've heard you southern types get up to all sorts of nonsense - but it is true here.

when i read some of the drivel in the press and see it's worst excesses echoed in some of the posts here - well, you are in a nasty fantasy land of your own invention. you can of course, continue to see the worst in everyone but it won't make you happy. or fair. or respected.

really, come on people - i love a political debate but isn't it time to be a bit more considerate and well-mannered? peace man! or men. and women (obviously)

lastly could i just ask those to who comment on us labour party members to say what they know of their local branches? how often do they go to meetings? or just why do they imagine that people who do make an effort are all trotskyite racists?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 11:02 AM

Do as you are told Jim!
Are you a member of the gang or not?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 10:58 AM

The Idiot-Boy-Trolls have got y'all going again!
For fuck's sake, how many more times? DON'T. FEED. THE. TROLLS!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 10:45 AM

Provide evidence I was campaigning for him to be released from jail.
I was merely advocating he was to be treated the same as anybody else.
The fact he has been released on bail pending an appeal suggests that he was not given due process but was tried and sentenced with unseemly haste.

Keep giving the man more oxygen! are you sure you do not support him?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 10:44 AM

Incidentally
On the earlier thread you were attempting to pin antisemitism on the Labour Party
Tommy Robinson is an Antisi#emite who has belongs to several Anti Semitic Parties and is co-operating with European Anti semo#itic rallies
If you are so concerned about the welfare of the Jewish People,why are you defending this piece of shit
On this thread, you are attacking the Labour Party for extremism
Tommy Robinson is a notorious extremist who has not only been a member of extremist parties but has helped to set up at least two
You are still defending him while attacking the Labour Party
No need to underland where you stand regarding extremism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 10:24 AM

"Under British Law he is as entitled to free speech as you are."
You were campaigning for him to be freed from Jal after he had been imprisoned for attempting to influence a trial
He is a piece of fascist scum with a record of hate activity as lng as your arm - and attempted to pin antisemitism on The labour party
Think before you deny
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 10:13 AM

Steve,
You clearly have nothing to say about the subject of the thread, so why don't you just say NOTHING?

I have only quoted long-serving Labour MPs talking about the current issue within yours and their party.
What is your objection to that?
How is their testimony not relevant to the subject of this thread that you started?

The fact is that you Hard-Left extremists will tolerate no view that differs from your own narrow and extreme ideology.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 10:07 AM

Under British Law he is as entitled to free speech as you are. Like you he is also liable for the consequences of his speeches, just as you are on a forum. Incidentally Ireland has far more control over internet submissions than the US. you need to be careful of those oven slammer accusations.

As usual you cannot understand what is being said. Try thinking before posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:51 AM

"would be a step too far for jimmy|"
Your crudely brutish language would be enough but there you go
TFrom: Iains - PM
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 01:51 PM
Tommy Robinson is as entitled to free speech as you are.

I'll dig out your gloatingly posting up the petition for freeing him from prison if you insist
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:51 AM

Well if discussion revolved around facts and discussion of facts or even differing interpretation of facts the world would be a happier place. But there are some that only understand a part of an argument, take the wrong end of the stick, have a totally erroneous take on what was actually said and fire off the hip without further thought, while hurling insults with gay abandon. Then when corrected either try to play the little innocent, or take off again on a tangent. Those that insist on merely stirring the pot should not be surprised when it boils over.

When you reach a state of perfection shaw, you can attempt to lecture me. It is a breath of fresh air the odd occasions you are offline.
Take another holiday.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:29 AM

Why don't you and Keith behave yourselves for once? It was LOVELY here when you were both missing. LOVELY. You clearly have nothing to say about the subject of the thread, so why don't you just say NOTHING?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:25 AM

Yes a good description. Jim is a mad obsessive. Not often I agree with you steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:19 AM

I'm not attacking the Labour Party. More sort of lamenting it.

BWM - the EU decided that we couldn't susidise our industries in the way we decided on doing in Labour government after the war. So unfair to our poor EU rivals. We are led to believe - they did not find ways of supporting their industries. And some idiots believe that.

28% of manufacturing industry gone in a single year.

The resultant drop in demand for steel and coal did have some slight effect on the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:16 AM

"About as many as you have supported his filth"
of course asking you to support such an accusation with hard facts derived from any of my postings would be a step too far for jimmy. Just keep vomiting your bile everywhere just like your ludicrous assertion about me closing oven doors on a recently closed thread.
Do you ever think before you post? Anyone else suggesting such a thing would be immediately censured. Why not you?

Why rely on facts when you can just make it up?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:13 AM

This is not about antisemitism. Sod off, you mad obsessive, and start your own thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:40 AM

ANOTHER OWN GOAL FOR WESTMINSTER DISUNITED
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:40 AM

ANOTHER OWN GOAL FOR WESTMINSTER DISUNITED
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:37 AM

More from Labour MP Chuka Umunna,
"He said Labour now clearly fitted “the definition of institutional racism as outlined by Sir William Macpherson in the Macpherson report”.
Umunna said: “It’s very painful for me to say that. Part of the reason that I joined the Labour party, that my family supported the party, was because it was an anti-racist party. I think the failure to deal with the racism that is antisemitism is particular, and clearly is a problem.”

The Streatham MP, one of the leading backbenchers from the party’s centre-left, previously said people with his views were being forced out of Labour under Jeremy Corbyn, and he urged the leader to “call off the dogs”. "
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/09/chuka-umunna-labour-is-institutionally-racist

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:26 AM

"How many threads have you now infested with him? "
About as many as you have supported his filth
No pasarán!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:23 AM

VD IS clap, Al.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:08 AM

Keep on feeding Tommy Robinson with the oxygen of publicity. How many threads have you now infested with him? Are you a closet admirer? Keep up the fine work!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:04 AM

Guardian/Observer March 2017.
"A hard-left plot by supporters of Jeremy Corbyn to seize permanent control of the Labour party and consolidate their power by formally joining forces with the super-union Unite can be revealed by the Observer.
The plans, described on Saturday by Labour’s deputy leader Tom Watson as “entryism” and a covert attempt by a leftwing faction to take over the party, were spelled out in detail by Jon Lansman, the founder of the grassroots organisation Momentum, who was secretly recorded addressing supporters at a meeting of a new branch of the organisation in Richmond, south London, on 1 March.
Labour’s reinvention needs to come from the bottom up
Deborah Hermanns
Read more

On the tape, obtained by the Observer, Lansman issues a call to arms to Momentum supporters, saying they need to make sure the left is far better represented in key positions at all levels of the party so they have control over the levers of power when Corbyn departs and the succession is decided.
Most controversially, Lansman says that if his ally Len McCluskey secures re-election as general secretary of Unite in an internal election next month, the super-union will then link directly to Momentum by formally affiliating to it, in what critics fear would amount to a massive shift of power and financial resources to the pro-Corbyn left."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/18/secret-tape-reveals-momentum-plot-to-link-with-unite-seize-control-of-labour

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:57 AM

Do you actually believe this medu#ia shit Al - do you have any evdence that these accuastions have any reality

We have the word of quite a lot of long-standing Labour MPs and peers.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:56 AM

I was involved in protests about rising youth unemployment in the mid sixties - local Labour#r Party members organised a lobby o#f Parliament on the issue
I was appointed spokesman and gave my name to the feller on the door - eventually my name was called and I was invited up to speak to my MP - The Prime Minister, Harold Wilson - what a mealy-mouthed prick!!!
He was the one who started the rot - he gradually removed socialism from the Labourr agenda and got rid of all the enthusiastic youngsters from the party - referring to them as 'hotheads - eventually 'Trotskyist' took over

Compared to the garbage that eventually took over, Wilson was a hero of the revolution

I'm afraid that, in attacking the Labour Party you find yourself in the company of Tommy Robinson wannabes
I hope you've got a long spoon for that particular mad-hatters tea party Al
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:36 AM

I can remember them saying in 1979...

Labour and Tories...its like a choice between clap and VD.

That's how they view our party. I recognise the mindset. So should you.

That's why the Brexit debate got so poisonous. Its that whiff of extremism. Extreme hatred for another point of view....over what...some recondite points of economics that virtually no one understands.

Theres civilised debate, and theres treading in dogshit. They each have a unique bouquet. very recognisable.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:36 AM

I can remember them saying in 1979...

Labour and Tories...its like a choice between clap and VD.

That's how they view our party. I recognise the mindset. So should you.

That's why the Brexit debate got so poisonous. Its that whiff of extremism. Extreme hatred for another point of view....over what...some recondite points of economics that virtually no one understands.

Theres civilised debate, and theres treading in dogshit. They each have a unique bouquet. very recognisable.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:22 AM

"Nobody knows how to fiddle while Rome burns like the Tories do."

But if you want the master class, study the antics of labour!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:05 AM

Under Blair, the NHS and schools system did relatively well, far better than before or since. Pragmatism. Under Blair, foreign policy was such a disaster that we're now having to fight off terrorism at every turn, not to speak of the turmoil fomented by the Blair/Bush axis in many countries. Ideology. Just show us for once that you actually understand politics and that you acknowledge that the world isn't black and white. Incidentally, the country is falling apart at the seams right now because two different ideologies in your Tory party are ripping the party apart and ignoring the running of the country. Nobody knows how to fiddle while Rome burns like the Tories do.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:03 AM

And for those that argue coalmining was targeted by politicos instead of rank economics let me point out that In the US mining employment was 50,000 in 2015, down from 823000 in 1923. In Germany 610,000 were employed in the mines in 1977, the figure was well under 50,000 in recent years.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:03 AM

"The cheap membership deal has let in the trots. "
Do you actually believe this medu#ia shit Al - do you have any evdence that these accuastions have any reality beyongd the pages of the Daily Wail and The Scum - if so - where is there any sign of anybody expounding the Theories of 'Permanent Revolution' or 'Socialism in one county - or anny of the policies Trotskyism is renowned for?
Shame on you
It is a right wing slogan - nothing more
Corbyn attracted thousands of new members on the basis of moderate socialist policies - he offered an alternative that Britain desperately needed
If you care to scan the net, you will find that Trotskyism, pretty much like Communism, has pretty well disappeared from teh English scene
First antisemitism, then trotskyism
You've really fallen for media nonsense hook line and sinker
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:44 AM

Deep mining had been declining in the UK for decades before Thatcher came along, as has been pointed out many times. The largest drop was 1960-1970 where numbers dropped 317000(>50% drop) Six years of that decade under a labour watch. And was it not Wilson promised the white heat of technology would guarantee work for all?
For as long as Labour runs on ideology instead of pragmatism, it is doomed.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:43 AM

Am I some sort os a Messiah

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:38 AM

And, before you start wittering on about the fishing industry, the first cod war began in 1958, fifteen years before we joined the Common Market, and the third cod war ended in 1976, three years after we joined. The cod wars were the death knell for the U.K. fishing industry - nothing to do with the EU.

You won, get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:33 AM

600,000 trots, Al? Cor, when's the revolution!

Stuff 'n' nonsense, Al. Even if it were true, which it isn't, what would you do about it? Change the rules so that only nice ex-Blairites could join?