BS: 9-11 memories

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 01:08 PM

Bill you have studied truth. It is said truth is stranger than fiction. Man made truth does not often have the rich complex texture of coincidence. When coincidence goes unexplained people kick into overdrive to explain it or condemn it. That is a bit like anti Occamism I suppose.

The magic JFK bullet on the stretcher or the wallet of the head hijacker resting on the fallen jet engine half buried in the ground are examples of a truth that seems too coincidental. These things are practically irresistable for a curious mind.

Sometimes the obvious - isn't. Sometimes the hidden is in plain sight.

I have grown accustomed to being lied to. Truth is like a quantum variation we can not measure and has too many different perspectives if we could. I am not a Gulliani nut who would say the truth isn't the truth but it is a damn sight more complex than we like it.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Charmion
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 10:34 AM

In 2001, my old army buddy Rick was an intelligence analyst posted to the Canadian Defence Liaison Staff in Washington. He worked in an office with windows that faced I-395 and the south side of the Pentagon.

Rick was sitting at his desk, drinking a cup of coffee and watching the news from New York, when the third aircraft appeared out of nowhere and thumped in.

My ol' buddy was always a little more tightly wrapped than the rest of us, but after that he was wound up like a dollar watch. I don't think the several tours in Afghanistan did him much good, either.

He lives in the country now, and spends most of his time on his boat or playing with his grandchildren.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 07:55 PM

Donuel:
Amen. Good Point about our current predicament. Applies on both sides of the American divide and probably more than that on the UK side of the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 06:51 PM

We used to have an office in the Pentagon, and every time I went there, I had to walk around until I hit something familiar. I've never been able to figure out if it was anywhere near where the plane hit.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 05:36 PM

Because the Pentagon was 'local' for me, there were more images and videos on TV about that... and because it was only damaged, there was lots to watch and follow as they struggled with response, and later repair.... and,I know someone who barely escaped.

There is a certain aspect to 9/11 that becomes just 'history', because... for me, anyway, I just can't internalize so much.

What really bothers me, even after all these years, is the continuous repetition of conspiracy theories popping up like rhetorical Whack-a-Mole games. If folks WANT to believe, any anti-Occam's razor story will do.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 05:28 PM

Everybody having their own agenda is the tragic failure of identity politics! INSTEAD OF DISAGREEING OVER ECONOMIC POLICY , PEOPLE ARE DISAGREEING ABOUT EACH OTHER'S PERSONALITY traits and preferences.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 01:30 PM

"Everybody has their own agenda, and it doesn't involve compassion toward other posters."

An untrue and unnecessary comment.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 01:19 PM

UK Prime Minister at the time was Tony Blair.

I've just read through the thread which Jeri made a blue clicky for.
One can feel the shock, disbelief and horror in all the posts from Mudcatters.

I can't personally remember what I was doing on that day. But I do recall watching it all unfold on the News and praying hard for everyone concerned in the tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 12:13 PM

Tisha B'Av is the 9th day of the 11th month in the Jewish calendar, the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians in 587 BCE and (again) by the Romans in 70 CE.
It has been a fast day for over a thousand years.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 11:26 AM

This was the start of it, here at Mudcat
Never will there be those people, or that mix of people here. Everybody has their own agenda, and it doesn't involve compassion toward other posters.

Everything changed.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 11:11 AM

And tomorrow, the anniversary of the 1980 NATO-organized coup in Turkey; about a quarter of a million people tortured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Turkey

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 10:59 AM

Thanks for that. It's a sombre day on our calendars.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Charmion
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 10:47 AM

More than two 9/11s.

That date is also the anniversary of the Christian victory over the Ottoman force besieging Vienna in 1683, and, more pertinently, the 1982 withdrawal of international troops that led to the massacres by Phalange forces of Palestinians living in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon. In his 2002 "Letter to America", Osama bin Laden identified the latter incident as a particularly severe insult.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 08:48 AM

Jack was referring to the coup in Chile on Sept 11 1973, which removed democracy from the country, eventually installed the vicious military dictator Pinochet and which led to the torture, murder or disappearance of tens thousands of people. Reflect today not only on the horrors of 9/11 but also on the part the US played in that earlier episode. To many people there are two 9/11s.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 08:39 AM

Wilson?!
It wasn't Tony Blair, was it?
Whoever was after Blair possibly.

I remember that when the news first came out,
my response was a wonderfully energizing adrenaline rage and fury.

After my internal hormonal crash, came the depression.
I've been on meds since Sept 18, 2001, to this day.

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 07:47 AM

Middle of the night in New Zealand. It was pretty clear what was going to happen (thousands dead - I didn't guess the prisoners being tortured in stadiums though). I phoned the US Embassy but didn't get through, there must been people all over the world doing the same thing.

What was going on Britain at the time? It was a few years before Thatcher got into the act of supporting fascist torturers. Who was in charge, Wilson? What did he say about it?

Subject: RE: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 07:13 AM

The date must be very sad for you Donuel, I'm so sorry.

I watched the programmes on TV 'The Falling Man', and then 'The Firemen's Story' a couple of evenings ago. They show them every year in memory of the event, and it always moves me to tears.

The poor folk who rang their loved ones from the Towers, saying, "I'm trapped - it's not looking good." and so on. And that terrible moment when the first Tower sank down upon itself and collapsed.

It makes me sad but also extremely angry that people could be so very wicked to do such a thing. Three thousand dead.

Trump is a fool. But also a toxic, dangerous person. The sooner he's ousted the better.

Subject: BS: 9-11 memories
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 06:50 AM

NYC papers quoted Trump as saying that day "I guess I have the tallest buildings now.
I remember the day differently since it was when my father passed.
I remember the day and where I was.