BS: What utter rubbish!

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 05:18 AM

The Russians were no kind of saviours of Poland.
They collaborated with Hitler in their dual invasion of Poland in 1939, held back their forces in 1944 to allow the germans to destroy the Warsaw rising and imposed a brutal occupation after the war using the Red Army to quash any and every struggle for democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 05:07 AM

more stories about Poles

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 05:04 AM

I have done some audio recording of old folk in the area round Stroud. There is a long history of Poles in our area. The one consistent story is of the bravery of Polish airmen. "The bravest of the Brave" is the common description.

One lass used to travel in dad's van delivering groceries and she asked her dad why a friendly Pole stayed. Her reply was he couldn't go back, he would probably be killed. And plenty stayed so it was a general fear. Feelings ran high between Poland and Russia, despite the fact they were saviours, of a kind.

One old lad was conscripted to work - delivering coal as a teenager, luckily in West Germany. So after the war he decided to settle where the Poles had congregated in the UK. But not until 1960ish! They had ex-pat type Polish dances and celebrations.

Thomas Nawrot

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:40 AM

My naughty mum (she was in the WAAF) used to say the Polish airmen were devastatingly gorgeous! And she also fancied the Americans...
Both my parents were in the Air Force long before War broke out.

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:33 AM

Rag, is it possible that friend was turned down for some other reason?

The Poles continued their fight for Poland with us, and we should be grateful because they made a difference both in the air and on land.

Most stayed because Poland remained occupied after the war, by Stalin.

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:22 AM

Goodness, just look at that bar graph which Iains linked! Huge number of Polish pilots, more than any other foreign group.

My father was in the RAF during the War, wireless-operator/signaller I think (he had a lightning flash logo on his uniform). He often spoke about the Poles who flew with him and said they were grand chaps.

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Iains
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:06 AM

A breakdown by nationality of Battle of Britain pilots


https://www.indy100.com/article/battle-of-britain-remembering-all-the-foreign-pilots-who-fought-for-the-raf-7309621


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX_wqn1ILE8

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Raedwulf
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 07:19 PM

My 'beef' with the piece is... Well, I don't much like the word hero, I confess. I am not one, I am never likely to be called one, but if it ever happened, I think I would be very uncomfortable with it. "Hero is a four letter word!" You are there, and you do what needs to be done because you are there, and if you don't, who else will? From what I have read over the years, most of those to whom the word hero has been applied have given or would give you much the same answer. "I did it because it needed to be done. Anyone else would have done the same."

The second reason for my "beef" is "The". If the first part of my 'beef' was unclear, surely the second was? There wasn't just one Czech. He was in a Polish Squadron. There were thousands upon thousands of the displaced who fought with us. The latter part of the article is better, but the presentation overall is "The Czech". No. There were lots of Czechs. And lots of others too.

Remember them. All of them. They fought.

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: meself
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 05:54 PM

Okay, I read the article - and I really don't understand what your beef is ... ?

Quote: "The Imperial War Museum calls Frantisek the "top scorer" of the Battle of Britain, and he is generally considered to be one of the top scorers of the entire war, despite his death in its very early stages."

So why not make a movie about him, and why not write an article about it? I suppose I'm a bit dense, but I couldn't find anything objectionable in the article.

Btw, since we're on the subject - my father remembered fondly the Polish airmen who took him in when he had been shot down over France. They had an aerodrome to themselves and seemed to be operating with considerable autonomy. And there was a language issue. It took a couple of weeks for him to get back to England; until then, he was 'missing in action'.

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Iains
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 05:46 PM

The largest foreign contingent in the RAF during the battle of Britain
were Poles. Foreign pilots comprised just over 20% of RAF pilots during the battle of britain. I knew there were a number of Polish pilots but the actual figures are far higher than I thought. The numbers also include 9 from Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 05:31 PM

Many years ago a friend of mine applied to join the RAF, he was well qualified, an educated and erudite man. He was turned down because his father was Polish.

His Father was the same man who had made it to England in the 1940's to join the RAF and fly planes in the war against the Nazi's.

Subject: BS: What utter rubbish!
From: Raedwulf
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 05:07 PM

It's very rare that I create a new thread, almost unheard of, but I saw this and... went "Arrrrgh!", frankly. Not just one "hero", if you want to use that word. There were hundreds of them. The article itself says he served in a Polish squadron! Yes, exactly!!

Josef Frantisek may or may not have been a hero. He died long ago, but there were hundreds of them. Czechs, Poles, and others who fled from the Nazis to fight against them for... Not for us, necessarily. Remember that. They fought for their own reasons. They fought WITH us because we were still fighting. Many of them stayed afterwards because they grew to love us & we grew to love them. At least, then. Now, I'm not so sure. Now, you'd think that no-one ever knew that They; Poles, Czechs, the Free French Forces, etc; fought for us as well as themselves.

It's not that I wish to diminish Josef Frantisek in any way. But this is sloppy journalism made worse by the fact that it seems to be based solely on the release of a film that undoubtedly includes a great deal of story-telling fantasy with little connection to reality.

I know it's two months early, but remember them. All of them. Not just the named ones. There were hundreds & thousands of them. Not the Anzacs & the Canucks et al who had ties to the "Mother Country". All the others; whether, for you, they had names or faces. Remember them too. They fought; not for us, that is also fatuous; because they had to, same as ours did. Nevertheless!

Remember them. They fought.