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Dark Core of Personality in ballad and folklore
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Subject: The Dark Core From: Jack Campin Date: 02 Oct 18 - 11:37 AM I could have put this in BS, but it describes so much in ballad and folklore that it may better to leave it here for a bit; folksong doesn't distinguish between minutely specific varieties of human nastiness, and it looks like psychology shouldn't either. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180926110841.htm |
Subject: RE: The Dark Core From: keberoxu Date: 02 Oct 18 - 11:51 AM Denmark and Germany. There's a combination. That's where the research comes from, according to my quick-and-dirty speed-read of the article. These are both countries in which not only music, but dramas and sagas/stories are highly valued. I am just studying a fellow from the turn of the eighteenth to the nineteenth century, named Jens Baggesen, a poet and author. Danish born, but Denmark was too small for him, and in the meantime Germany had an enlightenment going on, so he wanted in. His poetry is still read and sung as well. Baggesen is not a "dark-core" personality, though; his affliction was relationships, he couldn't live without one, and it makes for a lot of melancholy intense poetry. Martin Carthy spoke in an interview about a man who came up after a performance and spoke with him. Carthy's set list included a ballad about incest. The man who came up to speak to him, was a professional in the counseling and psychology/social work spectrum, and the man was greatly struck by the accuracy of the observations in that ballad and how well they fit the very people he counselled who were abuse victims. So Jack is spot-on there. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Dark Core of Personality From: Joe Offer Date: 02 Oct 18 - 01:33 PM Very interesting, Jack, but I probably can't justify keeping it in the music section for very long. We'll see where the thread goes. I've often wondered why some people have such a dark view of life, and how I've come through with a fairly optimistic perspective. Here's an excerpt I like: As the new research reveals, the common denominator of all dark traits, the D-factor, can be defined as the general tendency to maximize one's individual utility -- disregarding, accepting, or malevolently provoking disutility for others -- , accompanied by beliefs that serve as justifications. In other words, all dark traits can be traced back to the general tendency of placing one's own goals and interests over those of others even to the extent of taking pleasure in hurting other's -- along with a host of beliefs that serve as justifications and thus prevent feelings of guilt, shame, or the like. The research shows that dark traits in general can be understood as instances of this common core -- although they may differ in which aspects are predominant (e.g., the justifications-aspect is very strong in narcissism whereas the aspect of malevolently provoking disutility is the main feature of sadism) . Ingo Zettler, Professor of Psychology at the University of Copenhagen, and two German colleagues, Morten Moshagen from Ulm University and Benjamin E. Hilbig from the University of Koblenz-Landau, have demonstrated how this common denominator is present in nine of the most commonly studied dark personality traits:
In a series of studies with more than 2,500 people, the researchers asked to what extent people agreed or disagreed with statements such as "It is hard to get ahead without cutting corners here and there.," "It is sometimes worth a little suffering on my part to see others receive the punishment they deserve.," or "I know that I am special because everyone keeps telling me so." In addition, they studied other self-reported tendencies and behaviors such as aggression or impulsivity and objective measures of selfish and unethical behaviour. Now that Susan Friedman has published her "Body Count" book, maybe she'd like to augment that study with an analysis of how these dark traits appear in the Child Ballads. |
Subject: RE: Dark Core of Personality in ballad and folklore From: GUEST,Rev Bayes Date: 02 Oct 18 - 08:15 PM > the man was greatly struck by the accuracy of the observations in that ballad and how well they fit the very people he counselled Sometimes I am struck by how new perspectives throw a shaft of light on old songs. I was recently listening to some song where a woman slays her husband and is seen covered in blood and laughing and singing gaily. The natural interpretation of the text is, ooh, that evil woman, what lies in peoples hearts, etc etc. Later that day I read this: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/29/devoted-wife-who-killed-husband-with-hammer-sally-challen Paints the same text in quite a different light. |
Subject: RE: Dark Core of Personality in ballad and folklore From: Jack Campin Date: 03 Oct 18 - 03:48 AM Barbara Allen seems an example of a "dark core" type who couldn't be further pigeonholed. |
Subject: RE: Dark Core of Personality in ballad and folklore From: keberoxu Date: 03 Oct 18 - 02:14 PM Martin Carthy's lifelong fascination, love/hate attachment, to "Prince Heathen" is possibly apropos here. |
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