BS: The political leanings of Mudcat

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 02:46 PM

Hahahaha Steve, there isn't a lamp-post wide enough for me to hide behind! :)

But you're right, we differ enormously in our political views but manage nevertheless to have some great exchanges and interesting, friendly conversations.

(We even once declared our love for eachother if I remember rightly, hee hee)

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 02:59 PM

I don't see a right wing ideology as ever being clear headed or honest today. The essence of Truth is totally lost.

The effects of tribalism has reduced politics to be trapped within a dream within a dream within a dream within a dream, in most if not all social media and Trump tweets.

I see many people do not have cohesive thoughts unless its about religion or guns.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 03:25 PM

"Then there's the matter of automatic ridicule because the person posting on the receiving end is who he is. This kind of tribalism here is far more pronounced on the right"

I do not agree. Here on Mudcat, this is almost a standard tactic of the Left. There are almost never attacks on the presented information, but always personal attacks on the person posting.

IMHO- and yes, even **I** am entitled to one, regardless of YOUR opinion(s)

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 03:26 PM

I don't see a left wing ideology as ever being clear headed or honest today. The essence of Truth is totally lost.


IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 03:39 PM

Well I'd rather be muddle headed and dishonest than a bloody tory.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 03:54 PM

I'd rather play a ukelele.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Mossback
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 06:47 PM

Here on Mudcat, this is almost a standard tactic of the Left. There are almost never attacks on the presented information, but always personal attacks on the person posting.

Gee, this Bruce person is almost as whiney, entitled, and believable as his hero Justice Brett Perjury, ain't he?

Could Bruce BE Justice Perjury under another sobriquet?

The "American Barometer" will tally your answers.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 07:52 PM

"Then there's the matter of automatic ridicule because the person posting on the receiving end is who he is. This kind of tribalism here is far more pronounced on the right"

I do not agree. Here on Mudcat, this is almost a standard tactic of the Left. There are almost never attacks on the presented information, but always personal attacks on the person posting.

But you see, Bruce, I gave you an example of the routine wrong-headedness of Tory/right-wing attitudes here. All you can do is "not agree," then trot out the same old right-wing whinge that we're all getting at you. When I post in riposte to anything you post, I address the (usually ill-considered) points you make. If goaded I also do that awful human thing and mete out the ridicule I think you deserve but which I should quite possibly refrain from. That's how it goes and that's also what you do in spades. But, in my experience, you have nothing to complain about. Almost always, if you make any point at all, it gets addressed. Go back in history and check, and refrain from the knee-jerk cheap shots. We're all fluffy bunnies, us lefties, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 07:59 PM

Nope. Bruce's High School did not have its own golf course, hot tubs, TV studio and sauna. Bret had a Porsch and his friends had either S class or GL Mercedes. Bruce had an Econo van. However Bruce does like beer.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 08:19 PM

Never mind Bruce - heres a song for you


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nByAGNE0Gk

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 09:04 PM

I think a lot of you are 'frozen in time'. For instance, I've heard the phrase 'right of Attila the Hun' (used the phrase meself) but I do not think Attila was on the scale. He was a tribal leader. I don't think he was even a mercantalist!
It doesn't make sense anymore. And if it doesn't make sense now, did it ever?

Technology is a bunch of tools. They both free and enslave.

As to socialism and capitalism, they're just a couple of names. . .that free and enslave.

I like the comment that the only thing wrong with Socialism is that it IS possible.

Socialism seems to work when there are more people than property. It is a way to share the property, or, if you like, resources. And in its highest (dated) idealism, it can be defined in four words: "The dignity of work." In its lowest forms it has resulted in some of the most backward totalitarian nations the world has ever seen. Check out Venezuela for one of the most recent examples.

Over time, a well organized and sharing socialist society starts to generate enough wealth that sharing it becomes harder than just letting people have the property they want to have in their own houses/ garages.

In the real world it is the capitalist societies, WITH appropriate regulations, which generate wealth and progress. The essence of capitalism is freedom of choice on both the creation and the consumption of goods and services. It has a dark side as well, slavery, child labor, debtors' prisons.

A capitalist society by definition produces winners and losers. And it is possible to be both in such a society. But then, a socialist society seems to produce mainly losers.

Think Socialism = Monoculture. Boredom. One kind of toilet paper in GUM. And not very absorbent.
Capitalism = Polyculture, Diversity. Too damn many brands of toilet paper but you can find one that makes your fanny happy. Messy but way more interesting.

Socialism and Capitalism both can lead to consolidation of political power and a few people trying to tell a lot of people what to think and how to behave. Worth a Woody Guthrie song in either case.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 09:14 PM

I find the same "tactics" used by both sides of the political spectrum. But I'm a rabid centerist who will compromise for the common good.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 09:44 PM

song: Super Surfing Santa's by the Sea says Christmas tyme to me.
Merry Xmas back atcha mate.
Ever notice republicans start complaining about a war on Christmas around Thanksgiving? They act like little perpetual whining victims.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 10:28 PM

I understand that the Supreme Court is permitting a Christmas creche display in DC this year, but it probably won't happen. They can't find three wise men and there is a massive search on for a virgin. The biggest problem is that there are so many asses that they don't have a place to put them all.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 10:42 PM

From: beardedbruce - PM
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 03:25 PM

"Then there's the matter of automatic ridicule because the person posting on the receiving end is who he is. This kind of tribalism here is far more pronounced on the right"

I do not agree. Here on Mudcat, this is almost a standard tactic of the Left. There are almost never attacks on the presented information, but always personal attacks on the person posting

"From: Mossback - PM
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 06:47 PM

Here on Mudcat, this is almost a standard tactic of the Left. There are almost never attacks on the presented information, but always personal attacks on the person posting.

Gee, this Bruce person is almost as whiney, entitled, and believable as his hero Justice Brett Perjury, ain't he?

Could Bruce BE Justice Perjury under another sobriquet?

The "American Barometer" will tally your answers."

I rest my case.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 10:45 PM

" However Bruce does like beer"

Actually, I don't. I was into single malts before 20 Nov 1991, and have had only one alcoholic drink since then ( Not by choice).

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 11:33 PM

great song though Bruce, cheer up mate!

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 01:13 AM

Johnny Cash

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 01:13 AM

Gilbert & Sullivan

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 03:07 AM

As to socialism and capitalism, they're just a couple of names. . .that free and enslave."
At least you got the order right
Slavery was the product of a profit-driven class divides society and was only abolished whan it was realise that it was more profitable to use labour free from responsibility rather than maintain slaves
One of the greatest excesses of Capitalism was the Holocaust, which was financed by German industrial capitalism which re-introduced slavery in the shape of imprisoned Jews into the factories.
The present thirst for oil threatens to even leave that standing
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 04:03 AM

The thing is Jim, do you think the poor buggers in the Gulag said - well at least I'm not being exploited by greedy capitalists!

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 04:08 AM

robomatic, your post yesterday at 9.04 was absolutely brilliant. I've read it several times and like it very much.

I also had never heard that Johnny Cash song about the folk group. Hilarious! "And the one at the back was...a Methodist!"
The lyrics express exactly how I feel about strident political tub-thumping.

PS didn't Johnny Cash have a wonderful, resonating voice?

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 04:14 AM

The thing is A that the Gulags were a form of imprisonment not slavery - and they were an anomaly, not part of socialism - they were originally set up by the Tsars to keep the people in line
Slavery and exploitation were and are an essential built-in part of the Capitalist system, whatever the distortions and corruptions of the Soviet system, the ideal of socialism is ending exploitation
You really have swallowed this Cold War shit haven't you ?
To you ever thing to mention the Gulag in Guantanamo or the fact that our high-street shops are full of products produced under slave-labour conditions in countries we profit from by selling arms to their despotic leaders in order to keep their people in line?
I've never known you to do so
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 04:27 AM

Robo. Raining cats and dogs has never made sense either but everyone know what people mean by it.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 04:40 AM

Robo has made a number of unsubstantiated claims of people makign personal attacks - his friend Bruce is probably the worst culprit

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 05:36 AM

Senoufou, I can see where your allegiances would make sense if Macmillan was still PM. But this lot?

the Home Office doing what May told them to

Surely you have to be concerned about what they want to do to your husband?

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 05:58 AM

Au contraire, Eliza, robomatic's post was a heap of bilge. Consider this couple of lines, to take one example:

"In the real world it is the capitalist societies, WITH appropriate regulations, which generate wealth and progress. The essence of capitalism is freedom of choice on both the creation and the consumption of goods and services. It has a dark side as well, slavery, child labor, debtors' prisons."

In the real world there has rarely, if ever, been a capitalist society that has enjoyed "appropriate regulations." Capitalist societies have regulations that favour huge corporations (they pay very little tax and wield massive undemocratic power) and that favour handouts to the wealthy. Capitalist societies lay great store by the overriding need to make money whilst abusing, exploiting and neglecting the people at the bottom, the REAL wealth creators. "Freedom of choice" depends entirely on how rich you are and always has done. It's a brainless mantra routinely trotted out by the right. In his list of "dark sides," which reads like something comfortably in the past in some Dickensian novel, he conveniently forgets that capitalism led to the Holocaust, an arms trade that has led to tens of millions of deaths and to the near-collapse of the world economy in 2008, prevented only by massive bale-outs of banks with taxpayer money that led to the banks continuing to behave just as badly, carrying on taking their bonuses almost as much, and a lying bunch of capitalist Tories telling us that we were all in it together, when the truth has been that working people have been floundering in a mire of abusive austerity while the rich continue to get richer. His capitalist fairyland is for the few. I'm surprised, seeing all the things you've seen in life, that he managed to take you in so comprehensively.

Incidentally, his selection of Venezuela as an example of a failed socialist project laughably forgot to mention that his own country, for ideological reasons, made concerted efforts for years to undermine Chavez. "Any friend of Cuba is an enemy of mine and we will kick your ass big-time in consequence." A neat summing-up of US foreign policy towards any country that dares to turn left.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 06:07 AM

"Slavery and exploitation were and are an essential built-in part of the Capitalist system"

Great documentary last night on the Beeb, highlighting the uttterly ruthless devastation of the environment in Indonesia visited on the country by that epitome of freedom-of-choice capitalism, "the fashion industry." Not to speak of the drying-up of the Aral Sea so that cotton fields upstream of the lake could be irrigated, to produce all that nice cotton for our togs. Not even those shining virtuous lights of capitalism, Marks and Spencer and Next, would give the journalist an interview. There was no need to guess why not. I could scarcely believe what I was watching.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 06:22 AM

Let's not get too carried away with the pros and cons of any particular system. Thanks all for, in the main, keeping it 'clean' but I was hoping the thread would highlight that the Mudcat, as with most folk clubs, leans somewhat to the left and is liberal in its ideology. As such, it is only to be expected that right wing and conservative views will be frowned upon by the majority.

Any views on that?

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:05 AM

Jack, that case you referred to was indeed very sad and disgraceful.

My husband's application for a Marriage Visa took place while Labour was in power. And the Home Office made a very basic but awful administrative mistake and refused him entry into the UK, resulting in an Appeal.

I had to go down to the Court in London, and it all cost me £1,400. The judge decided it had been 'an obvious error' and awarded the Visa.

The Representative of the Home Office who was present at the Appeal fell asleep during the proceedings, and when asked if she had anything to say, yawned hugely and said, "Nah!" This didn't impress me much...

He is safe as houses now, as he achieved Leave to Remain, Further Leave to Remain, Indefinite Leave to Remain (Settlement), British Citizenship and a UK passport.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:16 AM

I am shocked there is gambling in this establihmnt - Casa Blanca

The monopolist politcian whines in anger that he is being attacked and defiled. He is soo angry. He only has all of the Congress, Courts, Prsidency, DOD, State dept and his thumb on the Justice dept.

If the tub thumping right are poor victims it is of their own deliberate creation. They get more anger for their buck with personal attacks of course. They condemn anger in the other side.
Without generating anger they fail.

Eventually the anger angle works against them when the opposition is mobilized by their own genuine anger.

emotions win elections not facts

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:26 AM

The trick is to condemn the anger merchants in a highly charged emotional way. Or courtiously lose elections. Beto in TX is doing just that.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:38 AM

Gentlemen this election belongs to the women and they are mad at Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:44 AM

It is the Dems who are the ones running on hate this election- Jusr listen to their campaign ads.

IMO

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 08:19 AM

'You really have swallowed this Cold War shit haven't you ?'

You'll change your tune when the Ruskies are over there smearing novichoc on your crubeens and white pudding.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 08:26 AM

Life was so much simpler twenty or thirty years ago - Left or Right.

The situation in Italy is interesting where you've got a left/right coalition against the 'globalist' centre.

On a few things even Jeremy Corbyn and Donald Trump seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet.

I just think there's far too much knee jerk stuff these days.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 08:31 AM

What few things?

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 08:31 AM

I assume that was a joke - today's 'free Russia' ais a very different kette of dingbats than the 'enslaved' one

It's your lot who are building Berlin-type walls, debasing women, undermining the justice and security services abd boasting about "rd buttons'
You are as big a laughing stock by defending this clown as the clown you are defending
Wonder what happened to our 'Jew-hater' since you became the spokesman for a racist whise administration is riddled with anti-semites
Extremist rightism takes precedence, I suppose
Jim Carroll

From,m USA Today
President Trump wants 'the facts' on right-wing extremism. Here they are.
Erroll G. Southers Opinion contributor
Published 5:48 AM EDT Aug 18, 2017

A flower memorial dedicated to Charlottesville victim Heather Heyer.
Steve Helber, AP
In the aftermath of the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump said he needed to have “the facts” before passing judgment on whether a torch-carrying, swastika-waving mob deserved condemnation.

Mr. President, here’s a fact. The white nationalist and homegrown violent extremist James Alex Fields Jr. has been charged with killing Heather Heyer in an ISIS-style terrorist attack. And here’s another fact: right-wing violent extremism in the United States has been growing dramatically for years, and your equivocation is emboldening its adherents.

The “Unite the Right” gathering was not just another racist rally. It was terrible evidence of a dangerous convergence of extremist ideologies that extol the notion of “RAHOWA” (racial holy war). The Charlottesville rally put neo-Nazis, militia Constitutionalists, neo-Confederates and several factions of the KKK shoulder to shoulder. These groups are traditionally fragmented and rife with internal conflict. In Charlottesville, they found in one another a shared desire for legitimacy. When the most powerful person in the world abdicates a moral obligation to call these groups what they are, it grants them the legitimacy they seek.

Trump is right — violent extremists on both sides are a threat

Police must act fast to protect First Amendment rights: Robert Shibley

To further satisfy the president’s sudden desire for fact, it is essential to understand that the road to the Charlottesville attack was not traveled in a night, nor even a decade. Since 9/11, the uptick in terrorism has not come from foreign threats. Instead it is owed to homegrown terrorists, with significant surges in attacks in 2008 and 2012, coinciding with the election and re-election of Barack Obama, America’s first African-American president.

The New America Foundation reports an almost 2-1 ratio of attacks by far-right extremists over Islamist extremists. The Anti-Defamation League reports that from 2007 to 2016, a diverse collection of extremists was responsible for the deaths of at least 372 people in the United States; 74% of these murders came at the hands of right wing extremists. These trends are accelerating, rapidly. In an eight-day period in May, for example, there was a string of violent extremist incidents that received little media attention and, unsurprisingly, no condemnation from the president.

•    May 20 – Richard Collins III, an African American and Bowie State University student, was stabbed to death by Sean Urbanski, a member of a Facebook group called the "Alt-Reich: Nation."

•    May 26 – Three men in Portland tried to stop white supremacist Jeremy Christian from harassing two women who appeared to be Muslim. For their bravery, the three men were viciously attacked; two were murdered and the third was seriously injured.

•    May 27 – Anthony Hammond was arrested in Clearlake, Calif. for allegedly stabbing a black man with a machete, after yelling racial slurs. While en route to the Lake County Jail, Hammond threatened to kill the transporting officer and his family once he was released. Hammond was charged with committing a hate crime, among other charges.

•    May 28 – Two Native American men in Washington State were run over by a pickup truck driven by a white man shouting racial slurs and war whoops. One of the tribal members was killed and the other hospitalized.

All of these attacks were committed by extremists who appear to be inspired by a politically motivated ideology that posits racial, moral and religious superiority and demands violent action to advance it. People are dead or injured because of ideologically motived attacks. Where is the public outrage? Where are the calls for national unity and enhanced security? Why aren’t we asking where and how these people were radicalized?

POLICING THE USA: A look at race, justice, media
Trump and white supremacist haters: He's delivering much more than words
The truth of it is that our nation has been conditioned to view terrorism as the exclusive province of extremist Muslims. And now the chickens are coming home to roost. For far too long, the terrorist threat from white supremacists has grown in the shadows. They are feeling emboldened, shameless for their shameful ideas, and they are coming together in ways that will only lead to more violence.

We are facing a clear and present danger. We all must rally behind the ideas of equality and freedom, led by an executive branch that calls racism and terrorism what it is. Until we do that, there is no question this will happen again. That’s a fact.

Erroll G. Southers, a former FBI special agent and former assistant chief of police, Los Angeles World Airports Police Department, is director of Homegrown Violent Extremism Studies at the University of Southern California Sol Price School of Public Policy. Follow him on Twitter: @esouthersHVE

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 08:32 AM

I think there's far too much smearing of individuals, far too much playing to the gallery, far too much reliance placed on slogans and sound bites, and far too little by way of thought-through, properly costed policies - especially by the Right, much less so by the Left.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 08:57 AM

What seems to happen though is that political threads get more and more heated, tempers rise and then insults start flying

That is because people attack people who attack people who attack people.

If only the reactionary of all political conceits would address the issue instead of the person. A wish in vain.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:00 AM

In the spirit of the opening post, Dave, let's indulge in some completely unjustified stereotyping, parody even. Us folkie types use beaten-up old guitars that can't be tuned, two-quid Generations, ancient hand-me-down Echo harmonicas that Grandad used to play and singing voices that have been exposed to decades of fags, coal dust, cloth ears and gallons of Double Diamond. We exercise our craft in the most dingy of smoky pub back rooms with flaking paint and condensation running down the walls. The bogs have no lights and, well, forget hand basins. We listen to the same songs we heard last week, each of which is preceded by the same tedious over-long spiel you've already heard fifty times, but at least it's democratic and everybody has a go. There's a raffle at half-time in which, if you're lucky, you might win a cassette by someone you can't stand (it'll turn up again in next week's raffle, don't you worry). There's no free beer, the thump of the jukebox in the saloon bar drowns your tempo out and if you want a pint you have to go through two doors, one of which jams all the time, so forget trying to carry more than one pint. As you listen to the same old, you notice the stuffing is falling out of the seat that's so sticky you just know your trousers won't do another day.

That's enough to turn even Norman Tebbitt into a leftie! But of course Norman doesn't go to folk clubs. Big knobs like that will be dining at the Ritz or falling asleep at Covent Garden during an opera that they are pretending to understand but haven't a clue about. The twain don't meet, not really. Well, a few working-class folks do go to the opera, though never to sit in those boxes, not to show off but because they understand and have a deep appreciation of what's going on. It could well be that the occasional public school bod nips into a folk club now and then, but you wouldn't know because he'll be in disguise and he would never willingly tell you.

I'm going into hiding now. A posse would be useless.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Mossback
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:02 AM

It is the Dems who are the ones running on hate this election- Jusr listen to their campaign ads.

Didn't realize you did stand-up comedy, Bruce.

And now, back to the world of facts and reality....

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:25 AM

The facts, the truth, is against the right wing extremists, so they claim it's "fake news" - propaganda from the left.
How do you twist and spin when fundamental reality is against you? I don't like it when the left spins things. They don't NEED to.

The more their base justifies and excuses liars, and wannabe rapists, and do-nothing, money-grubbing, women-dismissing and denigrating, red-faced, nut jobs, the more they defeat themselves. Bye.

It's not hate. It's hopefully inspirational anger, and a determination to not put up with the shit any longer.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:28 AM

If bb is correct that enmity is well-earned.
Speaking of Echo Harps, I have one handed down from my Dutch grandfather in it's original box. I'm told he could really play it.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:37 AM

Re the question Trump/Corbyn similarities referred to above.

Opposition to globalisation.

Opposition to mainstream media.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:42 AM

I didn't know you still visited folk clubs in Lancashire, Steve?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:20 AM

"Opposition to globalisation".

What does this even mean? What does globalisation even mean? If you look it up in an online dictionary it seems to mean businesses operating on an international scale. Well of course they do. Transport and communications technology has been advancing ever since the inventions of the wheel and of writing. So the physical size of the units in which people operate increases. Big deal. Corbyn isn't opposed to this. Trump probably isn't opposed to this, he is a business owner after all. People trot out globalisation as the source of their ills when what they really mean is progress that they havn't bothered to keep up with.

"Opposition to mainstream media".

Depends a bit on what you mean by mainstream. To me the Guardian is pretty mainstream and I don't see Corbyn being opposed to that. To me the Mail and Express are sewer rags which I would't sully my arse by wiping it with. But others for some reason see them as mainstream. No idea what Corbyn thinks of them.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:23 AM

I think you'll find that opposition to the mainstream media is the speciality of the Tories. Ask anyone at the Beeb. I don't see a lot of anti-media stuff coming from the Labour Party, though if anyone has an axe to grind on that front it's them. As for globalisation, whatever it is, I suspect that Corbyn and Trump approach the thing from very different perspectives. Socialists are internationalists too. Many Tories and their fellow-travellers on the right tend to be little Englanders round these parts. They have far more in common with Trump's isolationism, racism and protectionism than Labour will ever have.

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:24 AM

"Us folkie types use beaten-up old guitars that can't be tuned"

Errrrmmm...who's this 'us'? Speak for yerself, you might use 'beaten-up old guitars that can't be tuned', but I most definitely do not! :-O :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:27 AM

Cross-posted with you there, David. I agree with what you say. It seems that the right deals more in received wisdoms and comfy mantras than in taking on issues in a measured and objective manner.