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BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 18 - 09:03 AM The basis of this thread is that there should be no surprise that the Mudcat has a preponderance of left leaning people with liberal views. How they have behaved elsewhere is only an issue where people seem to be surprised that right wing conservative views are vehemently argued against. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Oct 18 - 08:59 AM "Jim, you're trolling." Sorry Jeri - I'm not I'm responding to an accusation I believe has no substance The basis of this thread is how people have behaved elsewhere Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jeri Date: 10 Oct 18 - 08:43 AM Jim, you're trolling. As in trying to pull in people who are not involved in this thread. Please stick to THIS one, and avoid general bitching about everything/everyone you don't like here. Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Oct 18 - 08:33 AM "It was a bit beyond me too" We have had similar accusations from two people who have made discussing Israel impossible by screaming "Jew hater" at everybody who dares criticise that State - both avid Trump supporters That accusation has just been repeated by someone who has serially verbally abused members of this thread and attempted to talk down to them since he joined Nothing has been done about the behaviour of this trio yet a mod is agreeing with them that we (presumably) are "a whole passel of rabid liberals who are neither tolerant nor pacifist" Sorry - I am obviously missing something If people are going to make such accusations they should have the good manners to qualify them as far as I can see, this description fits nobody other than the trio who are making the accusation - easily provable by producing examples of course Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 18 - 07:40 AM Sorry Jim - Got it now. It was a bit beyond me too :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jack Campin Date: 10 Oct 18 - 07:23 AM Maybe some of the other Scottish folks here can comment, but what I seem to be seeing is a fairly rapidly expanding tactical consensus. A kind of wartime camaraderie effect. People are aligning with the independence movement, if not actually joining up with the SNP, as what we see down south is a flock of vultures opposed by a flock of headless chickens, neither of which many of us want to have telling us what to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Oct 18 - 07:14 AM It should not be closed down unless it becomes toxic, Jim I was being ironic Dave We seem to have a mod who has closed threads because of members abusing each other, now happy to describe other members as "a whole passel of rabid liberals who are neither tolerant nor pacifist" Beyond me, I'm afraid Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 18 - 06:56 AM It should not be closed down unless it becomes toxic, Jim. The easiest way to avoid that is to not react to any provocation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Oct 18 - 06:55 AM "Some of them are trying hard to provoke on another thread! A very clear demonstration of the veracity of your statement!" It's this type of unqualified accusation that causes the most problems in communicating here - allusions to something they are not prepared to identify We're here to discuss openly, not tp play dodgems - why not just say what you are referring to I do hope it's the one discussing Trump Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Oct 18 - 05:32 AM Should be 'mod' |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Oct 18 - 05:31 AM "rabid liberals " - is an oxymoron used by right wing morons to defend extremism as far as I'm concern I have to say I'm surprised at a mos using the term to attack members of this forum - wonder if he'll close the thread down! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Iains Date: 10 Oct 18 - 05:23 AM " But then I came to Mudcat, and came across a whole passel of rabid liberals who are neither tolerant nor pacifist. They are very self-righteous about their putative right to bully other ways of thinking away." I assume it is Liberal in the American sense of the word. i.e.left. Very true words Joe. Some of them are trying hard to provoke on another thread! A very clear demonstration of the veracity of your statement! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Steve Shaw Date: 10 Oct 18 - 03:45 AM I'd just point out that, from a UK perspective, people such as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are considered to be pretty right-wing. Lest we forget. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 Oct 18 - 03:29 AM "In case you missed Jims" Thanks for that D - I'll have a silly grin for the rest of the morning Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Donuel Date: 09 Oct 18 - 08:24 PM Hillary says its impossible to be civil with people who want to destroy everything you believe in. That's true but the words everything and impossible are exaggerations .for now. Here is the paradox; The right wing base is impressed by the chaos that Trump incites and left wing demonstrations ensue. I say we have to risk it to mobilize ourselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Donuel Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:50 PM In case you missed Jims link folk singers political leanings |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Donuel Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:41 PM That's the spirit |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: robomatic Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:35 PM Another thing. Posting stories about Donald Trump as if the reporter has figured him out and he is__________ An Antisemite A Liar A Criminal A Thief A This A That If you think you can pin him down you don't 'get' Donald Trump. He is a B*llSh*t Artist par excellence. He has one principle and it is, let's all say it together, Donald Trump This is something that is not new to America, but it is sorta new in the Oval Office. He does not so much tell a lie, or the truth, as tell you what he wants you to believe at the time. He went from Dr. Christie Blasey Ford was credible, to challenging everything about her credibility to "it was a hoax" in half a week. This is both interesting, in that he can talk to anyone at any time, and truly scary. And all the time he was doing 'business' or running for President, or being President, this has been in the open for all to see it. The Democrats and the New York Times are as exhausted as an outfielder catching random fly balls, the Republicans are lying lying lying both to the public and to themselves because they are spinning the fly balls as home runs. One thing seems to track: He lets down everyone who trusts him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Donuel Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:33 PM The term 'Fake News' comes out of 1938 South America and Brazil. It was invented as a response to the propaganda Goebbels sent to that hemisphere regarding the glorious spread of Hitlerism. The technology changes from news reels to face book but the tune is still recognizable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Donuel Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:19 PM That's interesting Steve. Which came first the dictator's populism or the social media propoganda? I'd say it was the egg but I am still waiting for the chicken or egg. Come on everyone we have not exhausted Democracy. Saving it however is exhaustng |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Oct 18 - 06:57 PM "And also because there was less of an in-all-our-faces effect which the social networks now make not only possible, but frequent." If this troubles you, the answer is simple: avoid all social media. Mudcat is the nearest thing to social media I ever indulge in by a long chalk. I'm cheerfully ignorant of the social media effect insofar as it directly impacts my life, though I'm told it bleeds into other areas of life. It may well affect me but it isn't in-my-face. Let's hope that baleful things such as Facebook and Twitter go the way of Friends Reunited. I'm sure they will, and I hope they take the fake and shallow politicians who resort to them with them. But if you want to blame populism on social media, let's see the evidence. I'm not so sure about that. Social media didn't exist when Hitler was on the rise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Donuel Date: 09 Oct 18 - 06:50 PM You do realize the brains of conservatives are actually different? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jeri Date: 09 Oct 18 - 06:43 PM Johnny Cash a conservative? Weird. The problem I have, and I figure I'm not alone, is that politics (mostly the right wing) seems to be more about power than public service, and it doesn't cause problems that their followers seem to think that's just fine. I think we'd probably have less of an problem with them if they seemed to care about other humans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Donuel Date: 09 Oct 18 - 06:41 PM Joe this is the universe we are talking about. Things move around and turn inside out Political parties switch places entirely. 100 years ago the Republicans were the civil rights party. I can go into much detail on this. Keep a political party starved for truth and it gets demonstrably hungry But please don't buy into angry mobs roaming the capitol attacking people in elevators and diners. That only reminds me of hooligan gangs of grannies as in Monty Python. Anonymous people here certainly enjoy making their bark worse than their bite. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Donuel Date: 09 Oct 18 - 06:30 PM I ordered a chicken and an egg from Amazon, I'll let you know ! It's gonna be a toss up. Yes democrats are challenged to have a decent platform. Yes republicans can dress up a pack of lies that look good. Yes there are unwashed losers who want to look like winners who vote Yes the young don't vote Yes there are lots of intelligent voters. Yes the system is rigged hacked and whacked but its gonna be a toss up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: robomatic Date: 09 Oct 18 - 06:18 PM Again, I don't want to be too tied to 'left' 'right' liberal, conservative, because I think it promotes knee jerks. Cases in point: One of our astronauts just got in trouble for quoting Winston Churchill. Then he backed off and got in trouble for backing off. I remember enough of the 70s to remember there was MORE freedom of expression then, partly because the mavens of PC were just getting started and were more reasonable. Also because more conservatives were intellectual (William F. Buckley) and had more of a sense of humor (Barry Goldwater, Johnny Cash). And also because there was less of an in-all-our-faces effect which the social networks now make not only possible, but frequent. I called into one of our AM local radio shows where everyone was attacking our Senator, Lisa Murkowski, for her votes and thoughtful words about her votes regarding the Kavanaugh affair. I simply stated that I found Dr. Christie Blasey Ford credible, that I felt Kavanaugh had obviously prevaricated about his high school yearbook, and had not responded to questioning in as dignified a manner as I would like from my supremes. Then people called in finding my opinion too credulous about Dr. Ford. When that was precisely what the President had said a few days before. Life is tough when you leave ideology behind. It kinda wants to stick to your shoe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jack Campin Date: 09 Oct 18 - 05:29 PM Don't expect to see Tories complaining about this example of the BBC's bias: Anti-EU hegemony on Question Time |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 09 Oct 18 - 05:22 PM And, BTW, those tolerant pacifists of the 60s were not called angry young men for nothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 09 Oct 18 - 05:17 PM Tolerance is what it is all about, Joe. Right from the outset I have said that all should be welcome here. My only point is that the right wing conservatives seem to be surprised and take offence when anyone argues against their views. It is not just here. It is happening world wide and at the head of it is your president. You should always expect a platform within the liberal, tolerant folk world. But don't expect a free ride. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Oct 18 - 05:09 PM Ah, Joe and the myth of the golden age... :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Joe Offer Date: 09 Oct 18 - 03:17 PM Thread #165019 Message #3955595 Posted By: Dave the Gnome 09-Oct-18 - 06:22 AM Thread Name: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat
Let's not get too carried away with the pros and cons of any particular system. Thanks all for, in the main, keeping it 'clean' but I was hoping the thread would highlight that the Mudcat, as with most folk clubs, leans somewhat to the left and is liberal in its ideology. As such, it is only to be expected that right wing and conservative views will be frowned upon by the majority. And there, you see, is the problem and the source of my disappointment. I came of age in the 1960s. At the time, two major aspects of liberalism, at least in the U.S., were pacifism and tolerance. But then I came to Mudcat, and came across a whole passel of rabid liberals who are neither tolerant nor pacifist. They are very self-righteous about their putative right to bully other ways of thinking away. And I don't like it. Of course, there was a time when the marks of conservatism were personal responsibility and protection of individual rights, along with a sense of fair play. That's gone, too. And I don't like it. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 09 Oct 18 - 01:05 PM MORE SLOGANS AND SOUNDBITES |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 09 Oct 18 - 01:01 PM "Moneygrubber the New York Times "Even when it comes to a sick baby in his family, Donald Trump is all business. The megabuilder and his siblings Robert and Maryanne terminated their nephew’s family medical coverage a week after he challenged the will of their father, Fred Trump. “This was so shocking, so disappointing and so vindictive,” said niece Lisa Trump, whose son, William, was born 18 months ago at Mount Sinai Medical Center with a rare neurological disorder that produces violent seizures, brain damage and medical bills topping $300,000." MORE GOODIES HERE SLOGANS AND SOUNDBITES |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jack Campin Date: 09 Oct 18 - 12:55 PM There have been quite a few complaints from Corbyn supporters about unfair treatment by the BBC. More importantly: Being a soapbox for climate change cranks Plugging Brexit ...and Unionist anti-Scottish-independence spin and downright lies several times a day, don't get me started. All of the "All Under One Banner" demos have had people carrying placards attacking the BBC or lampooning them in songs - it's not even seen as a matter of political debate any more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Big Al Whittle Date: 09 Oct 18 - 12:33 PM I think it was Tarrega, who was asked his thoughts on the forty five years, he'd spent playing the guitar. He said, only five years playing - I spent the other forty tuning the damn thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: beardedbruce Date: 09 Oct 18 - 12:24 PM I think there's far too much smearing of individuals, far too much playing to the gallery, far too much reliance placed on slogans and sound bites, and far too little by way of thought-through, properly costed policies - especially by the Left, less so by the Right. IMO Mossback, Have you heard ANY of the campaign ads here in Maryland, for the Govenor's race? YOU need a long trip to the world of facts and reality.... The more the Democratic base justifies and excuses liars, and rapists, and do-nothing, money-grubbing, women-dismissing and denigrating, red-faced, nut jobs, the more they defeat themselves. But I see the Clintons are out on tour, raising money to line their pockets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jim Carroll Date: 09 Oct 18 - 11:48 AM "Just pulling your wotsit, Steve" Get a room you two! Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Backwoodsman Date: 09 Oct 18 - 11:45 AM Just pulling your wotsit, Steve - I knew all that! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:30 AM ...and I did say I was indulging in unjustified stereotypes, before you come to get me! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:29 AM I don't know one end of a guitar from another, John, but I HAVE seen a few horrors in use in folk clubs! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:27 AM Cross-posted with you there, David. I agree with what you say. It seems that the right deals more in received wisdoms and comfy mantras than in taking on issues in a measured and objective manner. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Backwoodsman Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:24 AM "Us folkie types use beaten-up old guitars that can't be tuned" Errrrmmm...who's this 'us'? Speak for yerself, you might use 'beaten-up old guitars that can't be tuned', but I most definitely do not! :-O :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:23 AM I think you'll find that opposition to the mainstream media is the speciality of the Tories. Ask anyone at the Beeb. I don't see a lot of anti-media stuff coming from the Labour Party, though if anyone has an axe to grind on that front it's them. As for globalisation, whatever it is, I suspect that Corbyn and Trump approach the thing from very different perspectives. Socialists are internationalists too. Many Tories and their fellow-travellers on the right tend to be little Englanders round these parts. They have far more in common with Trump's isolationism, racism and protectionism than Labour will ever have. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: David Carter (UK) Date: 09 Oct 18 - 10:20 AM "Opposition to globalisation". What does this even mean? What does globalisation even mean? If you look it up in an online dictionary it seems to mean businesses operating on an international scale. Well of course they do. Transport and communications technology has been advancing ever since the inventions of the wheel and of writing. So the physical size of the units in which people operate increases. Big deal. Corbyn isn't opposed to this. Trump probably isn't opposed to this, he is a business owner after all. People trot out globalisation as the source of their ills when what they really mean is progress that they havn't bothered to keep up with. "Opposition to mainstream media". Depends a bit on what you mean by mainstream. To me the Guardian is pretty mainstream and I don't see Corbyn being opposed to that. To me the Mail and Express are sewer rags which I would't sully my arse by wiping it with. But others for some reason see them as mainstream. No idea what Corbyn thinks of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:42 AM I didn't know you still visited folk clubs in Lancashire, Steve? :D |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Acorn4 Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:37 AM Re the question Trump/Corbyn similarities referred to above. Opposition to globalisation. Opposition to mainstream media. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: gillymor Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:28 AM If bb is correct that enmity is well-earned. Speaking of Echo Harps, I have one handed down from my Dutch grandfather in it's original box. I'm told he could really play it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Jeri Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:25 AM The facts, the truth, is against the right wing extremists, so they claim it's "fake news" - propaganda from the left. How do you twist and spin when fundamental reality is against you? I don't like it when the left spins things. They don't NEED to. The more their base justifies and excuses liars, and wannabe rapists, and do-nothing, money-grubbing, women-dismissing and denigrating, red-faced, nut jobs, the more they defeat themselves. Bye. It's not hate. It's hopefully inspirational anger, and a determination to not put up with the shit any longer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Mossback Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:02 AM It is the Dems who are the ones running on hate this election- Jusr listen to their campaign ads. Didn't realize you did stand-up comedy, Bruce. And now, back to the world of facts and reality.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The political leanings of Mudcat From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Oct 18 - 09:00 AM In the spirit of the opening post, Dave, let's indulge in some completely unjustified stereotyping, parody even. Us folkie types use beaten-up old guitars that can't be tuned, two-quid Generations, ancient hand-me-down Echo harmonicas that Grandad used to play and singing voices that have been exposed to decades of fags, coal dust, cloth ears and gallons of Double Diamond. We exercise our craft in the most dingy of smoky pub back rooms with flaking paint and condensation running down the walls. The bogs have no lights and, well, forget hand basins. We listen to the same songs we heard last week, each of which is preceded by the same tedious over-long spiel you've already heard fifty times, but at least it's democratic and everybody has a go. There's a raffle at half-time in which, if you're lucky, you might win a cassette by someone you can't stand (it'll turn up again in next week's raffle, don't you worry). There's no free beer, the thump of the jukebox in the saloon bar drowns your tempo out and if you want a pint you have to go through two doors, one of which jams all the time, so forget trying to carry more than one pint. As you listen to the same old, you notice the stuffing is falling out of the seat that's so sticky you just know your trousers won't do another day. That's enough to turn even Norman Tebbitt into a leftie! But of course Norman doesn't go to folk clubs. Big knobs like that will be dining at the Ritz or falling asleep at Covent Garden during an opera that they are pretending to understand but haven't a clue about. The twain don't meet, not really. Well, a few working-class folks do go to the opera, though never to sit in those boxes, not to show off but because they understand and have a deep appreciation of what's going on. It could well be that the occasional public school bod nips into a folk club now and then, but you wouldn't know because he'll be in disguise and he would never willingly tell you. I'm going into hiding now. A posse would be useless. |