Songs from English Civil War

Subject: Songs from English Civil War
From: GUEST,colin H
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 05:38 AM

Does anyone know of any songs specifically written during or soon after the English Civil War

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Ged Fox
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 06:56 AM

"Sir John Suckling's Campaign," possibly written by Sir John as a joke against himself, relates to the Bishops' War, a prelude to the Civil War proper. It was probably sung to the well-known "Francis Drake" tune.

"When the King enjoys his own again" may be the best known, written during the war, to an older Welsh tune.

The Diggers' Song, by Winstanley, just after the war in the Commonwealth period.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: KarenH
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 07:21 AM

Hello


I can't add much to the question, except to problematise it.

I've been looking at this period, and I'm now thinking that the term 'The English Civil War' might not be the right name: it suggests that there was something isolated and internal to England, but that isn't really how it was. For example, the name ignores Wales. Also, Irish fighters were involved in the 'Bishop's Wars' (on the Royalist side, I think).

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Reinhard
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 10:16 AM

There is a Fellside anthology Enlist for a Soldier: The Soldier in Song from the English Civil War to the Falklands.

"Peggy and the Soldier" is the only song on it that is clearly dated in the liner notes to the 17th century.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 10:29 AM

From Wikipedia;

The English Civil War (1642–1653) produced a subgenre of "Cavalier ballads", including "When the King Home in Peace Again".
[90] C. Mackay, ed., The Cavalier Songs and Ballads of England, from 1642 to 1684 (London: R. Griffin, 1863).

Many of these were adapted and reused by Jacobites after the ‘Glorious Revolution’ of 1688.
[91] C. Mackay, ed., The Jacobite Songs and Ballads of Scotland from 1688 to 1746: With an Appendix of Modern Jacobite Songs (London: R. Griffin, 1861).

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 11:40 AM

I've been looking at this period, and I'm now thinking that the term 'The English Civil War' might not be the right name: it suggests that there was something isolated and internal to England, but that isn't really how it was. For example, the name ignores Wales. Also, Irish fighters were involved in the 'Bishop's Wars' (on the Royalist side, I think).
"England" is often used to include Wales. Hence the lack of any representation of Wales on the flag of the United Kingdom.
Not something we are happy with, but it is long term, and difficult to overthrow!

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 01:42 PM

The English Ballads section of the University of Santa Barbra website has many original ballads from this period, fully searchable, including all Pepys and Roxburghe Ballads and National Lib. of Scotland. Someone with the techy ability will I'm sure provide a blue clicky eventually.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 05:06 PM

I had thought that "The Good Old Way" as sung by the Watersons was from that era, but it seems many theories abound! A Manx hymn, but it has a Roud number. Lyrics afe in the DT.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: GUEST,colin H
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 05:20 AM

Thanks Steve G. Any help gratefully received

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: One-eyed Croaker
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 06:38 AM

Under the heading "English Civil War Music" I posted as below on Mudcat in August this year. I'm now trying to get the full words of the song from the British Library:

"Trying to trace lyrics and music for an English Civil War song sung by the Parliamentary Army, called 'The Zealous Soldier' and said to be written in August 1642. Can only find two references.

1) A single verse quoted in 'This Seat of Mars: War and the British Isles 1485-1746' by Charles Carlton. The verse being:
For God and his cause I’ll count it gain
To lose my life. Oh can one happier die
Than to fall in battle to maintain
God’s worship, truth, extirpate Papacy?

2) This quote from 'Organa Britannica: Organs in Great Britain 1660-1860' Vol. 2 by James Boeringer describes an incident in 1642 at Canterbury Cathedral: "one soldier 'began to play the tune of the zealous soldier on the organ or case of whistles, which were never in tune since.'"

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 09:52 AM

I used to know someone who sang about
"Babylon is fallen, fallen, fallen.
Babylon is fallen, to rise no more".
And something about "the watchmen publish peace".
Which ,when I asked him, he said it came from the Civil War, but gave no detail, so I can't back this up at all. For what it's worth.

I'm also dubious about calling it "English". The Scots were all over it.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Gozz
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 11:24 AM

The song Richard Robinson mentions above is "Babylon is fallen" and was recorded by Swan Arcade many years ago (and more recently by Hex). Swan Arcade attributed it to that period and in particular to some religious sects that supported the Parliamentarian side. I know this song has been discussed on here before and someone reached the conclusion that it was American because that is the first place it was written down. This seems to deny a place for the oral tradition that we have had in the UK for many centuries. The words are here on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 11:29 AM

From Mainly Norfolk; Babylon [Roud 13968 ; Ballad Index Dett002 ; trad.]

Swan Arcade sang Babylon, a song from the English Civil War, in 1976 on their second album, Matchless. Home Service learned the song from Swan Arcade and sang it in 1986 on their LP Alright Jack. A live recording from the same year was released in 2011 on their Fledg'ling CD Live 1986.

Home Service sing Babylon;

Hail the day so long expected, hail the day of full release
Zion's walls are now erected and the watchmen publish peace
Throughout Shilo's wide dominions hear the trumpet loudly roar

Chorus (after each verse):
Babylon is fallen, is fallen, is fallen
Babylon is fallen to rise no more

All the merchants stand in wonder what is this has come to pass
Murmuring like a distant thunder crying “Oh alas, alas”
Spread the news, ye kings and nobles, priests and people rich and poor

Sound the trumpet on Mount Zion, Christ is come a second time
Ruling with a rod of iron all who now as foes combine
Babel's garments we've rejected and our fellowship is sure

See also the Mudcat Café thread Origins: Babylon is Fallen (to Rise no More).

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 02:01 PM

"Hail the day so long expected, hail the day of full release"

That's the one, thanks. And lots of stuff in the origins thread - it does seem to have more history on the other side of the Atlantic. And variants. "Slavery is fallen", in Jamaica. Just think, the Putney Debates with added Rastas ...

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: GUEST,Wm
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 02:56 PM

> I know this song has been discussed on here before and someone reached the conclusion that it was American because that is the first place it was written down. This seems to deny a place for the oral tradition that we have had in the UK for many centuries.

And yet no one has been able to present a speck of evidence that any form of the text much predates its publication in the 1813 Shaker hymnal Millennial Praises (the form quoted above is demonstrably the result of later editorial tinkering), or that its association with the current tune predates its 1878 printing in William Hauser's 3rd edition ofThe Olive Leaf.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: GUEST,Wm
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 02:57 PM

> I know this song has been discussed on here before and someone reached the conclusion that it was American because that is the first place it was written down. This seems to deny a place for the oral tradition that we have had in the UK for many centuries.

And yet no one has been able to present a speck of evidence that any form of the text much predates its publication in the 1813 Shaker hymnal Millennial Praises (the form quoted above is demonstrably the result of later editorial tinkering), or that its association with the current tune predates its 1878 printing in William Hauser's 3rd edition of The Olive Leaf.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 04:51 PM

Babylon is Fallen is much longer in its original form as the Shakers printed it, and much tougher. The Shakers themselves came out of the English radical Protestant tradition, but their cultural innovations had no Old World precedent. The Protestants of the 17th century only sang psalms: Babylon is Fallen is a dance-song, and nobody in Protestant Christendom had done devotional choral dancing before. It's an all-American creation.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: One-eyed Croaker
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 12:01 AM

If you sing Sacred Harp (also known as Shapenote), which I do, you'd know Babylon is Fallen as Number 117 in the Denson 1991 edition of "The Sacred Harp". I sang it on the weekend at the Sydney Shapenote All Day sing - it is a cracker! Just do "Youtube Sacred Harp Babylon is Fallen" and enjoy it (note that Sacred Harpers sing the shapes then the words).

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: The Doctor
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 04:29 AM

In 1971 Lewis Winstock produced a book entitled 'Songs and Marches of the Roundheads and Cavaliers', a copy of which is currently on ebay. It has a good number of songs, including 'When the king....', and it accompanied his book 'Songs and Music of the Redcoats 1642 - 1902', also on ebay but rather pricey. Argo released an LP of songs and music from this book, and more recently Strawhead released their 'Songs of the Civil War'. I think any or all of these items are worth having.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 04:44 AM

I think everything in Winstock that dates from the 17th century comes from the Roxburghe collection referenced above. Winstock is really good though.

I am pretty sure the usual shapenote version of Babylon is Fallen cuts the "See the smoke of cities burning/Clap your hands and fan the flames" verse, at least.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 05:43 AM

Not of the period but the best song I know about the period is 'Red and Gold'. From Wiki -

The title track was written by Ralph McTell, and tells the story of the Battle of Cropredy Bridge, which occurred in 1644 during the English Civil War. The location has strong links with Fairport Convention, being the venue of their annual music festival; the story is told from the perspective of a farm worker, Will Timms, who describes "red and gold" as "royal colours", while the red itself represents the spilled blood of combatants and the gold the wheat fields in which the battle took place

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 07:19 PM

One eyed Jack. ( tells about the siege ofColchester)
Diggers, correctly known as" The world turned upside down". By Leon Roseleon.

Not officially a civil war song, but adopted by a civil war reenactment group. "The man in green" by Show Of Hands.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Ged Fox
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 06:29 AM

"The Protestants of the 17th century only sang psalms:" !??! Well, we know what you mean, but ...


The OP was precise in asking for songs written in or soon after the Civil War, rather than "sung in the C17th." Songs by Henry Lawes, for example, would better meet that requirement than the songs in Ravenscroft's early Jacobean collections, even though the latter are possibly better known now and may have been more commonly sung in the Civil War period.

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: GUEST,Reynard
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 06:46 AM

A couple of people above are quite right to point out that "English Civil War" is a misnomer (especially as it arguably started specifically due to the relation between England and Scotland) and indeed historians no longer call it the "English Civil war":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_the_Three_Kingdoms

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: doc.tom
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 06:51 AM

Steve's earlier post:
English Ballad project @ Santa Barbara is at
http://ebba.english.ucsb.edu

Subject: RE: Songs from English Civil War
From: Ged Fox
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 07:20 AM

A song of the moment from the siege of Devizes 1645 - https://youtu.be/h34eGhY6hIM


"Believe it friend" included in Winstock's "Songs and Marches etc."