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English Medieval Songs

David W 29 Oct 18 - 04:58 AM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 29 Oct 18 - 06:24 AM
GUEST 29 Oct 18 - 07:16 AM
David W 29 Oct 18 - 07:47 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 29 Oct 18 - 08:26 AM
David W 29 Oct 18 - 04:13 PM
Jack Campin 29 Oct 18 - 05:00 PM
Mo the caller 01 Nov 18 - 03:01 PM
David W 01 Nov 18 - 06:31 PM
GUEST,James Gordon 02 Nov 18 - 01:14 AM
Mr Red 02 Nov 18 - 02:56 AM
GUEST,Some bloke 03 Nov 18 - 04:42 AM
Jack Campin 03 Nov 18 - 05:43 AM
Mr Red 03 Nov 18 - 11:05 AM
Jack Campin 03 Nov 18 - 12:30 PM
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Subject: English Medieval Songs
From: David W
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 04:58 AM

Hi,

For a new project I want to collect the music for English Medieval songs. There aren't that many.

So I thought I'd begin with assembling a list of all music, century by century, originating in England.

An easy task you'd think, someone in the past must have made a list. But no it seems.
(The DIAMM website has made a partial attempt.)

There a books of English Medieval music but they are far from comprehensive usually only containing a fraction of the music.

Can anyone help?


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 06:24 AM

I understand that definitions of 'Medieval' vary. In its broadest definition, it includes the period between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Renaissance, roughly a thousand years. May I ask what dates you are thinking in terms of?


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 07:16 AM

might be worth trying The Full English website


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: David W
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 07:47 AM

I understand that definitions of 'Medieval' vary. In its broadest definition, it includes the period between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Renaissance, roughly a thousand years. May I ask what dates you are thinking in terms of?

Pretty much any start time, but I understand the oldest written music originating in England dates from the 11th Century.


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 08:26 AM

Review of Dobson and Harrison


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: David W
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 04:13 PM

I saw that book when I was researching, details on the contents are hard to find but I found a site that gave a contents list, if this list is true the book contains a many songs but far from all of them.


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 05:00 PM

I had access to a copy for a while and never found anything it didn't have, and in the most complete and well edited version.


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: Mo the caller
Date: 01 Nov 18 - 03:01 PM

What songs are of your list?


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: David W
Date: 01 Nov 18 - 06:31 PM

Mo

The list is rather long almost 150 pieces of music, so far.


Jack

I believe few if any of these songs are in the book, and the person who made this list says this is only the tip of the iceberg as to what's out there on manuscripts ignored and never transcribed.
https://www.diamm.ac.uk/resources/sbs/alphabetical-list-songs/


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: GUEST,James Gordon
Date: 02 Nov 18 - 01:14 AM

There are many ways in the internet.

Check out: FTP server download


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Nov 18 - 02:56 AM

have a look at this Mudcat thread on medieval music - there are links that might provide some songs as well as music.

And just yesterday there was a programme on BBC R4extra that stated that Greensleaves was a tune known before Henry 8 and more than one lyric, even thought he may have written (or "borrowed" some of) the one we know best.

But be careful how you define medieval - see the Wiki link for some guidance.


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 04:42 AM

I’d preface the work by stating how you define medieval and why your definition is both relevant and appropriate for your collection.

Put it at the beginning, preferably in bold type. Otherwise you’ll get pedants dismissing what looks to be a wonderful project merely because of silly prejudice.

See the many threads where “folk” “baroque” “traditional” and even “pop” not to mention “contemporary” have gone from interesting debate to silliness once the preconceived opinions of self styled music police come out to play.

Good luck with it. I’m working on the tunes behind Charles Wesley’s hymns at the moment. It’s the collating and discovery that counts, not the reception.


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 05:43 AM

The Radio 4 speaker was probably an idiot. There are very few songs with such a definite date as Greensleeves - 1580, a generation after Henry VIII was dead and more than 100 years after the end of the Middle Ages on anybody's count. Both words and music are unmistakably of that time and no earlier.

There are several good reasons for not lying when you present your music as being mediæval. The one that matters to me is that the music is the soundworld of a particular time - it gives you an insight into how people felt and thought back then; what kinds of art moved them, and why. You can find the original words for Greensleeves on Mudcat: Bruce Olson posted them. He thought they were crap and said so - most of us would agree. A mediæval listener would also have thought they were crap, but maybe for different reasons. Compare it to a genuinely mediæval song and you can see what had been lost by then.


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 11:05 AM

There is no written record linking Henry 8 to Greensleeves. But unless you were there, it is all speculation, using the paucity of information you can access from this distance. As for styles, and eras - people haven't changed - they experiment and there are, as a result, outliers.

If you went to a folk club these days - would you hear "the Wild Rover"? And is it Irish or from Norfolk? But you might hear echos of Enya and her Victorian parlour song.


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Subject: RE: English Medieval Songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 12:30 PM

Greensleeves made a sizable splash when it came out. In 1580. The reason there is nothing linking it to Henry VIII is that he was extremely dead by then.


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