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BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?

Senoufou 03 Nov 18 - 03:37 PM
peregrina 03 Nov 18 - 03:40 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Nov 18 - 03:51 PM
Stilly River Sage 03 Nov 18 - 03:53 PM
keberoxu 03 Nov 18 - 03:56 PM
Iains 03 Nov 18 - 04:04 PM
Donuel 03 Nov 18 - 04:08 PM
Donuel 03 Nov 18 - 04:12 PM
Senoufou 03 Nov 18 - 04:33 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 03 Nov 18 - 05:22 PM
Tattie Bogle 03 Nov 18 - 06:36 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Nov 18 - 07:37 PM
Joe Offer 04 Nov 18 - 12:58 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Nov 18 - 02:55 AM
Senoufou 04 Nov 18 - 03:07 AM
Bonzo3legs 04 Nov 18 - 05:03 AM
Jos 04 Nov 18 - 05:22 AM
Bonzo3legs 04 Nov 18 - 05:49 AM
Senoufou 04 Nov 18 - 05:54 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Nov 18 - 06:21 AM
Mo the caller 04 Nov 18 - 07:34 AM
Jon Freeman 04 Nov 18 - 08:16 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Nov 18 - 08:30 AM
Senoufou 04 Nov 18 - 11:40 AM
Senoufou 04 Nov 18 - 02:18 PM
Jos 04 Nov 18 - 02:29 PM
Senoufou 04 Nov 18 - 02:51 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Nov 18 - 02:55 PM
Jos 04 Nov 18 - 03:04 PM
Senoufou 04 Nov 18 - 03:45 PM
Gallus Moll 04 Nov 18 - 06:06 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Nov 18 - 08:16 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Nov 18 - 08:27 PM
Joe Offer 04 Nov 18 - 10:15 PM
Howard Jones 05 Nov 18 - 02:47 AM
Jos 05 Nov 18 - 04:48 AM
Jos 05 Nov 18 - 04:55 AM
Thompson 05 Nov 18 - 05:00 AM
Senoufou 05 Nov 18 - 06:27 AM
Senoufou 05 Nov 18 - 06:34 AM
Jon Freeman 05 Nov 18 - 07:02 AM
Gallus Moll 05 Nov 18 - 07:18 AM
Gallus Moll 05 Nov 18 - 07:31 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Nov 18 - 07:44 AM
Backwoodsman 05 Nov 18 - 08:05 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Nov 18 - 08:43 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Nov 18 - 08:45 AM
Jon Freeman 05 Nov 18 - 08:50 AM
Senoufou 05 Nov 18 - 09:21 AM
Jon Freeman 05 Nov 18 - 09:27 AM
Jos 05 Nov 18 - 09:38 AM
Senoufou 05 Nov 18 - 09:46 AM
Senoufou 05 Nov 18 - 09:54 AM
Backwoodsman 05 Nov 18 - 12:05 PM
Tunesmith 05 Nov 18 - 02:03 PM
Gallus Moll 05 Nov 18 - 02:15 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Nov 18 - 03:41 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Nov 18 - 03:43 PM
Gallus Moll 05 Nov 18 - 06:56 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Nov 18 - 07:37 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Nov 18 - 08:47 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Nov 18 - 09:16 PM
leeneia 05 Nov 18 - 10:00 PM
Thompson 06 Nov 18 - 01:27 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Nov 18 - 02:43 AM
Senoufou 06 Nov 18 - 03:53 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 18 - 04:44 AM
Senoufou 06 Nov 18 - 08:04 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 18 - 10:31 AM
Thompson 06 Nov 18 - 01:43 PM
Senoufou 06 Nov 18 - 02:33 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Nov 18 - 03:23 PM
Tattie Bogle 07 Nov 18 - 01:28 PM
keberoxu 07 Nov 18 - 01:40 PM
Senoufou 07 Nov 18 - 02:30 PM
leeneia 08 Nov 18 - 01:26 AM
Thompson 08 Nov 18 - 08:46 AM
Senoufou 08 Nov 18 - 09:01 AM
Tattie Bogle 08 Nov 18 - 10:24 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 18 - 10:49 AM
Thompson 08 Nov 18 - 10:57 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 18 - 12:00 PM
Thompson 08 Nov 18 - 12:05 PM
Senoufou 08 Nov 18 - 12:41 PM
Backwoodsman 08 Nov 18 - 12:47 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 18 - 06:41 PM
Donuel 08 Nov 18 - 09:21 PM
Thompson 08 Nov 18 - 11:37 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Nov 18 - 02:33 AM
Thompson 09 Nov 18 - 02:46 AM
Senoufou 09 Nov 18 - 04:20 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Nov 18 - 06:15 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Nov 18 - 07:33 AM
Senoufou 09 Nov 18 - 08:11 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Nov 18 - 08:23 AM
Senoufou 09 Nov 18 - 08:35 AM
Mossback 13 Nov 18 - 10:34 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Nov 18 - 12:52 AM
Senoufou 15 Nov 18 - 03:24 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Nov 18 - 03:28 AM
Senoufou 15 Nov 18 - 03:40 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Nov 18 - 03:46 AM
Senoufou 15 Nov 18 - 04:00 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Nov 18 - 05:03 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Nov 18 - 08:16 AM
Jos 15 Nov 18 - 08:36 AM
Donuel 15 Nov 18 - 08:51 AM
Senoufou 15 Nov 18 - 09:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Nov 18 - 09:31 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Nov 18 - 09:46 AM
Mossback 15 Nov 18 - 10:16 AM
Gallus Moll 15 Nov 18 - 01:58 PM
Mossback 15 Nov 18 - 02:37 PM
Tattie Bogle 17 Nov 18 - 10:39 AM

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Subject: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 03:37 PM

I expect I'll sound a terrible killjoy, and of course I used to adore Guy Fawkes Night when I was young.
But fireworks then seemed to be much quieter and mostly pretty and colourful. I used to like Catherine wheels and Roman candles, golden rain and silver fountains. We children held sparklers which we waved to make patterns, while we watched the Guy burn on the bonfire.

But outside just now, two nearby families are having the most frightening Bonfire Night known to man. It sounds like the blooming Somme. The explosions are deafening, and spent rockets are raining down on our garage, conservatory and house roofs.

One family is opposite, and the other is two doors down, right next to Logie and Molly (two beautiful dogs) who I can hear screaming and barking in fright.

There are oil tanks in everyone's back garden, full of kerosene. Our neighbour has drums of red diesel standing in front of his house for his tractor.
There is farm stock (beef and dairy cattle, pigs and sheep) in all the surrounding fields, and about twenty horses at the riding stables up the road. Straw stacks and old farm barns etc too. Imagine the panic among the animals!

My husband has just hurriedly popped our car in the garage.
It's been going on like this for two hours solid, and I'm getting angry.
Would it be better to ban 'private' purchase of fireworks and restrict them to public displays only? There must be no end of awful accidents, and the poor Fire Brigade must be going flat out around Norfolk.

I have to add (just to give the entire picture) that these two families are not country folk. They come from further south and perhaps don't fully understand this environment. I'm very fond of them and always give a few small presents for their children at Christmas, in case people think I'm a miserable old hag! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: peregrina
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 03:40 PM

I agree!
Freelance fireworks nightly, intermittently for a few hours
Every since the 1st
Noise, terrified animals, danger to wildlife and a few tragic human accidents every year
Can't believe these DIY explosive are sold all over the place, even with BOGOF


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 03:51 PM

Nah. We can't go around banning stuff. I hate foxhunting but I'd rather ridicule it out of existence than ban it (which hasn't worked in any case). If you ban abortion you simply drive it underground and we end up killing young women. The Catholic Church tries to ban masturbation, the upshot being that now 99.253% of Catholics do it as opposed to 99.756% previously. Argue your case, organise demos, put out leaflets. But if you start wanting to ban stuff, you lose me. Batten down the hatches, close the curtains and have a cup of char. Fireworks are a tradition the whole world over and billions of people need a bit of light in their lives. It'll pass!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 03:53 PM

Good luck trying to do that. In the US someone will always find a way to sell or buy fireworks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 03:56 PM

Don't forget, everybody,
that Senoufou opened a thread here
when there was a fire across the street.
Remember that house that burned to the ground?
No wonder she's spooked, and her husband as well!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 04:04 PM

Having bought bangers by the handful at 8 years old, this is a subject I am not best suited to comment on. Perhaps part of the problem mentioned is that more and more people go through life having no contact with animals. They give no thought to the matter beyond their own enjoyment. It is perhaps education required rather than more legislation. There is also the additional problem that education may not cure selfishness, anymore than legislation can cure stupidity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 04:08 PM

Free speech comes in many unexpected forms. an artist who specializes in the unseen truths that can be communicated is HERE


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 04:12 PM

You might know the pioneers of the ineffable speech such as James Joyce, Professor Irwin Corey, Crosby or Donuel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 04:33 PM

Husband has just gone out with a torch to check there's no smouldering going on around our oil tank, and also to scan our neighbour's outbuildings, which are all of wooden construction.

The explosions seem to have abated somewhat, but more have started up further away (I reckon it's The Fox pub, down by the river, where they usually have a display)

Hee hee Steve, despite the disapproval of the Catholic Church, I rather wish these folk spent their evening masturbating instead - at least it would be nice and quiet!

I'm not calling for a total ban on fireworks, but it seems reasonable to me to have better control by limiting them to supervised, public displays, and not selling them in supermarkets to all and sundry.

I've been to one of these once, and there were safety barriers, plenty of security measures and extinguishers etc. The men setting them off were professionals and dressed in special fireproof clothing with balaclavas.

Also, the fireworks were wonderfully creative and spectacular.

I have heard that in some urban areas, youths cause untold problems and distress by chucking fireworks at people's windows or through their letterboxes, setting fires all over the place.

At least there's no malicious stuff like that here in our village.

Just bloody deafening noise!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 05:22 PM

In Florida, where I live, explosive and aerial fireworks are illegal while sparklers and other non-explosive items are okay. However, there's this little loophole: fireworks sellers can legally sell explosive and aerial fireworks to purchasers who sign affidavits stating that they are for "agricultural use". That means they're going to be used to scare birds from farm fields or fish ponds. Yeah, right....

I suppose an apartment complex swimming pool could be considered a fish pond.

And, for those who don't want to risk a $1000 fine for lying on such an affidavit, all fireworks are legal in the neighboring states of Georgia and Alabama. Fireworks buying road trips are a bit of a tradition before certain holidays.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 06:36 PM

As Steve says, difficult to ban it completely. But restrict to organised displays, and for the UK at least, keep it to November 5th, whatever day of the week it falls on, rather than have a week or more of nightly big bangs and animal mayhem!
(Says she, who lives in Edinburgh, where they have very bangy fireworks at the end of every Tattoo performance for a few minutes, then the Festival fireworks concert, lasting 45 minutes, and a huge display at Hogmanay too!)
However, sticking to set dates at least allows animal owners to take any necessary precautions for their pets.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 07:37 PM

Well I suppose. But just keep your pets indoors of a November evening anyway! Jeez!

I spent a week on the Amalfi Coast in August 2013, there were fireworks every night and it was all dead jolly. Same in 2014 on Lipari.

And, Senoufou, you may rest assured that a Catholic masturbation session is bloody noisy. Ooh ahh YES!!! Glory be...!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 12:58 AM

I've always thought of Catholic masturbation as being quiet and polite, but maybe Steve knows something I don't know....

...and I have to say that I have always been a bit ambivalent about Guy Fawkes Day. I mean, which side am I supposed to be on? And what are the appropriate greetings to be extended on such an event? - throwing firecrackers at your neighbors?

-Jose-


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 02:55 AM

I'm with Joe o this
I used to enjoy Bonfire Night as a child - I never realised the Catholic connection until later in life - it was a harmless street get-together - literally - the council used to have to re-tar our street every year
Things seemed to have changed so much as to make them undesirable
In some places they have become a symbol of HATRED AND SECTARIANISM

Mind you, if we could manage to get Trump to......
nah- he'd never volunteer
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 03:07 AM

Tattie, one of my nieces lives in a flat the centre of Edinburgh (postcode EH1) and hates the Festival fireworks set off each night after the Tattoo.

I'm perfectly sure that Catholic Masturbation Sessions take place with the utmost decorum.

I have happy memories of begging our father for an old shirt and trousers, stuffing them with rolled-up newspaper, attaching a home-made mask (complete with a crayonned-on moustache) and wheeling our Guy over to the parade of shops on my sister's old pram. We'd call out, "Penny for the Guy!" and kind folk would give us one penny. With the accumulated money we bought our fireworks.

The Guy was attached to a pole in the middle of the bonfire before it was lit, and we'd cheer like anything when he started to burn, chanting,
          "Remember, remember
          The fifth of November
          Gunpowder, treason and plot.
          I see no reason
          Why gunpowder treason
          Should ever be forgot!".

But these industrial-sized monstrous explosive devices seem a long way from those sedate days.

This morning there are spent rockets on our drive and lawn. At least our little Fiesta car is safe in our garage.

Wonder if the whole thing will be repeated nightly until after the 5th November?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 05:03 AM

I agree 110% Senoufou, while ignoring the many very loud bangs around at the moment when indoors, our greyhound Dreamy was so terrified when walking her last night that she turned around and pulled me towards our house.

It should be displays only.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jos
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 05:22 AM

The noise is probably much worse for dogs than it is for us, as dogs hear sounds that our hearing doesn't pick up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 05:49 AM

Very true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 05:54 AM

I have to say that our old and dozy cats didn't seem at all perturbed. They slept all evening on the sofa as usual.

But I could hear everyone's dogs barking, howling and hysterically screaming. (I'd say there are about twenty dogs in the immediate vicinity of our bungalow) Our window panes actually shook with each bang.

I'm sorry Dreamy was so frightened Bonzo. I've read one can get tablets from the Vet which are supposed to calm dogs down, but people we've spoken to say they're not terribly effective.

I've yet to encounter the local farmers/stable owner to discover how they fared. I expect it was a complete and total nightmare for them and their stock.

I'm just praying it doesn't all start up again this evening. Monday is the Fifth, and after that, fingers crossed, we might get some peace!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 06:21 AM

Piss-heads letting off what sounded like small thermonuclear devices in the garden behind my house at 11pm last night. What a cunch of bunts! We'd both just dropped off to sleep when those anti-social shit-for-brains started their antics.

Fortunately, my dog isn't disturbed in the slightest by firework-noises - when he was a pup, 3 months old, we bought a CD of firework sounds and played it every night for a few weeks, quietly at first, but getting louder as the evenings went on, in order to de-sensitise him to fireworks. It worked very well - in the house he doesn't react to firework-noise at all, outdoors he's excited by fireworks and thinks they are a great game. Of course, around this time of year, New Year's Eve etc., we don't walk him in the evenings but, in our little town, there are often occasions when some brain-dead throwback thinks it's a good idea to annoy people with fireworks, so we do sometimes get caught out.

I'm in the camp that says fireworks should be banned from sale to the general public, purely on the grounds that so many people seem unable to behave responsibly and in a socially-aware manner with them, but I do believe that 'official' properly-organised public displays can be a delight and, subject to controls, should not only be permitted, but encouraged.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 07:34 AM

As a Blitz baby in west London I used to be put to sleep under the stairs. Maybe that is why I don't like bangs.
Also I hate the wastefulness and the taste of the air when a lot of fireworks have been let off for weeks.
As well as scared animals.
Unnecessary. There are rules in place, which have improved things a bit (I live a mile from a wedding venue and there used to be noisy displays late almost every Saturday). But the noisy ones shouldn't be sold to the public.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 08:16 AM

Quite a lot of bangs from next door between say 8 and 10pm. I don’t know what poor old PussPuss who is currently living in the field made of it but I hope it hasn’t prompted him to move home.

From a personal noise perspective, I’m not to bothered but there is only the one semi about 20yds in front of us where I’d be “on top” of the noise. There is very little in the way of nuisance noise here and I do believe in a bit of live and let live either way.

(But that said, I did get annoyed with music going on till about 1am from the general direction of the road junction a few weeks back. Whoever they were, they must have been using some fairly heavy PA kit. I could feel vibrations from the bass in my room and you could hear the music in the living room, a bit OTT, I felt).

With regards to past pets. I think our last dog, Misty was the only problem one. She was scared of bangs and crashes whether from shotguns, thunder (where she could serve as an early warning with her hearing) or fireworks. Her reaction was to try to hide under a bed or chair. I suppose from that sort of perspective, it would at least be nice to be informed that a firework event was due to take place so someone can make sure they are around to comfort the disturbed animal.

Overall, I think safety is the greater issue. There are fire risks and you do read of nasty mishaps every year. And possibly there are questions over the fireworks some people by these days for home use? My home childhood memories are mostly the small box of Standard Fireworks which were all gone in about 20 minutes and (I think once you’ve grown passed the sparkler stage) often a bit of a let down. But the sort of things going from next door last night seemed more like display fireworks (but perhaps there were were always rather bigger ones for general sale and I didn’t see them at home)..


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 08:30 AM

Tragedy at Woking last night tended to put the tamper on proceedings there - six children hospitalised, none seriously
This was n organised bonfire and the accident was with a slide, not the fire itself, which was cancelled - shame !
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 11:40 AM

Our now deceased little cat Minty ("paix a son ame" or "peace be upon him" as my husband always says at the mention of his name - he adored that little cat) was terrified of fireworks and somehow managed to squeeze himself right behind the dishwasher. The space is about two inches each side, and the same at the back, so no idea how he did that.

If the machine was actually on, he'd go on top of the kitchen cupboards (same-sized gap) and flatten himself into a two-dimensional shape like a cat in a cartoon.

I had a look at Norfolk Fire Brigade's 'live feed' where most call-outs are listed as they happen, and there were surprisingly few actual fires (thank goodness).
Not quite dark yet here, so no idea if we'll have peace tonight. (paix a nos ames!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 02:18 PM

All quiet on the Eastern Front!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jos
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 02:29 PM

Not a criticism but a suggestion - I'd translate 'paix à son âme' with the English expression 'God rest his soul'.
As for 'our' souls, it's quiet here for once after over a week of bangs, but I expect they'll be at it again tomorrow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 02:51 PM

It's used by my husband when speaking of the Prophet Mohammed (alayhi s-salam) and as he normally speaks French, he expresses it as 'Paix a son ame'. (Sorry, I can't make my keyboard do circumflexes or acute accents)
Whenever he mentions his late father or anyone who has passed away (and Minty!) he always says it.
It can be translated as 'Peace be upon him.' But 'ame' is indeed French for 'soul'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 02:55 PM

Good luck to all with pets tomorrow - we no longer have them since a boy-racer saw off our last one.
Ths strangest (an in may ways, fondest) memory I have of pets on bonfire knight was when we lived in London
We used to take in a workmate's dog when he went off for weekends, but had had to stop because, on the point of moving to a house with a garden, we had acquired a cat (we named it 'Tess' after our favourite novel, but Walter Pardon renamed it Contessa thanks to her somewhat haughty nature)
One November, just before Bonfire night, our mate asked i we could take his dog - (family emergency)
We reluctantly agreed
We lived high up above London with a view right across the Thames, and just as the flashes and bangs started, Tess leapt in terror onto my shoulder and the dog (Russell - always reckoned he and his owner, Bruno had swapped names) climbed onto my lap shaking.
The two sat there for over an hour staying in hatred at each other, but too terrified to do anything about it.
Happy days
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jos
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 03:04 PM

'Peace be upon him' it is then.

(For the accents, I use ALT codes. You need a number pad on your keyboard, not the row of numbers along the top, and the 'Number Lock' ON, and you put in numbers using the number pad while the ALT key is held down - 133 for à and 131 for â. There are lots more. It's one of the most useful things I've ever learnt from Mudcat.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 03:45 PM

That's most kind of you Jos, I'll have a go tomorrow at doing accents.

But when you say "You need a number pad on your keyboard, not the row of numbers along the top" I don't quite understand. On this laptop I only have a row of numbers along the top. so how/where do I get a 'number pad'?

There's a key that's labelled alt gr (whatever that means!) and if I hold it down, it does an acute accent over an 'e'. Like this - é (demonstrates) But it doesn't do any other accents.

I might have an MA, but I'm as thick as two short planks where technology is concerned. Sorry, I know it's irritating and makes competent folk grind their teeth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 06:06 PM

On behalf of my dog, cat, remaining hen, the local pine marten (reason for reduction in hens), all 'my' red squirrels, and the aray of wild birds we have in this locale - i say ban the fireworks! Even the organised displays.- for the above reasons, plus domestic / farm animals an all wild creatures.... abd the fact that thousands of ££££ are wasted on these ridiculous events, while so many people are sleeping rough/using foodbanks abd just struggling to survive. Ggggrrrrrrr!
( oh look Senofoy, i accidentally did a 'something' above one of tge 'r's!!!! )


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 08:16 PM

To be contentious. Now why should I, as a bloke who rather likes the annual fireworks shenanigans, and who thinks that human beings go through so many privations in life as it is and deserve to let their hair down occasionally, worry in the slightest about those people who choose to possess those noisy 365-day shitting machines known as "dogs?" Just keep your curs in your bloody house for the night. You don't blame the Lord God when he sends you gales, hailstones and thunder and lightning, do you? You possess a polluting beast for the whole year then moan when you have to keep it indoors a couple of nights a year. Dog owners are part of the bloody problem on this planet fer chrissake. I went to buy a birthday card in the local card shop the other day and there was dogshit trodden all over the carpet in the shop. Very nice. Get a bloody life!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 08:27 PM

And fourteen posts out of 32 so far have mentioned their pets. Just keep them indoors. I absolutely promise you that they'll get over it. I had cats for forty years and they came indoors on bonfire night and slept in front of the fire. Just cut out the imperialistic killjoy stuff. Live and let live.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Nov 18 - 10:15 PM

I love fireworks.
They are beautiful, especially over water.
Therefore, they should not be banned.
Q.E.D.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 02:47 AM

Keeping pets inside doesn't shield them from the noise. Cats seem less concerned, at least ours don't appear to be bothered, but dogs seem to get it worse. Our last dog was absolutely terrified and would hide herself away in the furthest corner of the house, sometimes squeezed in behind the toilet. Our current dog is epileptic and on so much medication that she doesn't seem to notice.

I wouldn't ban them, but it would be nice to go back to the time when people had small displays on Bonfire Night itself, and not the continuous barrage we are now subjected to. It never used to be possible to buy fireworks at other times of the year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jos
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 04:48 AM

Eliza,
You need a separate number pad to use the ALT codes, like the number pads in cash machines, at the right-hand side of the keyboard on bigger laptops, so next time you buy one ...

If you use a Word document, click on 'insert' at the top, and then on 'symbol', and you will have lots to choose from. (Then copy and paste into the mudcat message box.)

Or you could try these in a Word document, but they don't seem to work in the mudcat box:
Hold down CTRL and press , then release CTRL and type c for ç
Hold down CTRL and SHIFT for : then release CTRL and type e for ë
If you have an ` you can hold down CTRL and press ` then release CTRL for à
Hold down CTRL and SHIFT for ^ (over the 6) then release CTRL and type o for ô


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jos
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 04:55 AM

Excuse my (lack of) proofreading - it should say
If you have an ` you can hold down CTRL and press ` then release CTRL and type a for à

These work for some other letters as well.

Gallus Moll, sadly there is nothing interesting happening above any of the 'r's now as it appears in your message.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 05:00 AM

To be honest, I find it a little disgusting that the English burn an effigy of a Catholic annually.

In Ireland, fireworks are illegal; however, the law is no longer particularly well enforced.

I'd be all for a proper ban, and a big fireworks display run by professionals in the centre city - was at one of those for… hmm… maybe the Dublin Millennium, celebrating the city's 1,000th year, and it was great fun - music, dancing, fireworks, and all safe and controlled.

Best thing for frightened dogs is a Thundershirt - you can buy them online. My late dog was utterly terrified, and a Thundershirt completely calmed her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 06:27 AM

Strangely Thompson, I can't remember ever thinking of the Guy as a Catholic, merely as a Bad Man who tried to blow up Parliament.

No doubt the historical facts were taught at school when we were older, but either we didn't listen very carefully or dismissed them, and at the age of seven or eight we more than likely had no idea.

The Guy effigy was a source of pride in our creative talents, as we made every effort to portray his face realistically with our wax crayons and some years we wrapped an old scarf round him and put an old hat on his head.
(Often these last items were retrieved before the burning.)

Our neighbour has just this minute told me that she picked up fourteen spent rockets in her garden, and many were embedded in the earth (could have been someone's head) as they had some sort of metal on the nose part of the missile.
Apparently our village Facebook (I'm not on Facebook, but she is!) is full of complaints about these inconsiderate people and the excessive noise, which went on for far too long.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 06:34 AM

Thank you so much Jos for your kind help. I've tried your suggestions but the ctrl and shift keys don't seem to do anything about accents, and the letters just come out as normal.
My laptop is very small and basic (which is not a problem usually)
and I'll just have to put up with accent-less French and hope folk will understand!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 07:02 AM

Sen, one alternative is to use a character picker. The one shown here is the KDE(KChar Select) one on my Linux desktop but I'd guess any version of Windows should have something similar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 07:18 AM

thanks Jos -- a wee Spanish looking squiggle appeared above one of the 'r's - but must have corrected itself (or maybe was a dirty mark on my screen?!

Eliza I apologise for mis-spelling your name in that last post - - should have checked before posting!

Steve - - you are as entitled to your opinion as I to mine - however I trust that if you are ever in need of a service dog / 365 day shitting machine* for example guide dog, hearing dog, search and rescue dog (mountains, earthquakes) you will have the decency to refuse their assistance as a matter of principle?
*by the way - what living creature does not pass waste? It is a normal bodily function and I am quite sure you - and your cats - do it too! So -- don't pick on dogs! Responsible owners pick up their dogs' faeces -- do you follow your cats through neighbours' gardens to ensure they don't perform in flowerbeds?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 07:31 AM

Jon i meant!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 07:44 AM

1. I have no neighbours.

2. Round here, many, many dog owners pick up the shit only when someone's watching. Even when they do, they leave smears for us all to contaminate our shoes or unsuspecting kids' hands with. Disgusting. And you may rest assured that my equivalent bodily waste goes into my septic tank. You will never tread in it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 08:05 AM

"Round here, many, many dog owners pick up the shit only when someone's watching"

I agree that far too many owners fail to clean up after their dogs. But that is the fault of the owners, not their dogs. Take issue with those owners, by all means, but leave the decent, socially-aware dog owners (of which I'm one - I pick up after my dog every time, without fail) alone.

And you're a cat-lover aren't you Steve? I've never met a cat-owner who cleans up after his filthy-bastard devil-in-a-fur-coat. No, they let those dirty little c**ts out to roam around my garden, shitting in the borders and burying it, so I get it all over my hands when I'm weeding.

People in glass-houses and all that...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 08:43 AM

I have no cats. Not since 2013.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 08:45 AM

"Take issue with those owners."

Not possible when you think about it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 08:50 AM

We did once supervise a cat's outdoor toileting for a short period. In his early days, Snotcat wanted to toilet at night but was inclined to roam. We used to take him into the field around midnight, let him do his business and then he would walk in with us. I don’t think he ever used a litter tray but I dread to think what he’d have been like with one. He used to dig holes frantically and it seemed like he was trying to dig down to Australia.

I don’t know where he (or other cats we’ve had) may have gone outside at other times but they do seem to like nice soft freshly dug patches and there’s usually a few of those in our own (counting the field in, quite large) area.

Back to fireworks… I didn’t hear any more over the weekend. As for keeping to Nov 5th, I guess that’s a bit awkward for some.   I’d imagine it would be easier for our neighbours for example, who I think would be inviting other family, to organise the event for the nearest Saturday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:21 AM

Don't worry about spelling my name Gallus! My husband's tribe is actually the Senoufo (sometimes spelt Senufo), but I added a 'u' to make it end in the word for 'mad'. Spelling it is a nightmare I do realise!

You're all very kind in your efforts to help me get some accents on my keyboard. I don't think I'm on Windows (whatever that might be!) but I've looked at the lid of my laptop and it says Acer Chromebook II.

In our village people are very responsible about clearing up their dog messes. Our cats always use their litter tray, and hardly ever go outside nowadays, except to sit on the garden bench (but it's too cold now!)

I'm just praying that tonight being the 5th people will have already done their explosions on Saturday and we won't be having any more.

Neighbour's family own the riding stables, and she said on Saturday evening her brother had to 'speak' to a man who was firing big rockets directly over the stable block. (He actually called him a f******* wanker and some other things too)

I think people who aren't used to country life need a bit of education about the problems with livestock, straw, barns and so on when huge fireworks are set off. It's probably not such an issue in cities (except for terrifying the dogs)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:27 AM

Perhaps this will help then, Sen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jos
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:38 AM

I grew up unaware of any Catholic connection with Guy Fawkes - it was all about the attempt to blow up Parliament, an attack on democracy.
The bonfires in Lewes are a different matter, but in Somerset I knew nothing of that.

History lessons in school can be biased in any case. In primary school we were taught a simple version of English history by a socialist - the Roundheads were the goodies and the Cavaliers were the baddies. Then in secondary school the opposite happened, and the Cavaliers were suddenly the goodies, with the Roundheads as the baddies.
I learned not to believe everything I was told.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:46 AM

Hahaha Jos, do you remember '1066 And All That'? "The Cavaliers were Wrong but Wromantic, and the Roundheads were Right but Repulsive"!!

On reflection, it is very insulting to Roman Catholics to burn an effigy of one of their heroes every year. If people burnt a black man doll like that there'd be ructions (quite rightly)
I don't know if Guys are even made nowadays.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:54 AM

And thank you Jon. I'm off for my nap now, but this evening I'll have a go with your Chrome method!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 12:05 PM

"I have no cats. Not since 2013."

Good. The whole fucking lot of them should be shot. Filthy little fuckers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 02:03 PM

Well, what’s wrong with fireworks?
    Well, they disturb millions and millions of people’s peace and quiet. They scare the shit - literally - out of millions of wild and domestic animals. ( and keeping pets inside does not prevent them being scared to death.)
    My philospher is that you can do what you like but don’t let your entertainment impact on others...millions of others when it comes to fireworks.
    It’s the old thing about selfish people wanting to do something and not giving a damn about the impact on others. It’s a bit like the “smoking in public places” debate.
    And, of course, firework displays seem to be more about extremely loud explosions rather than pretty pictures in the sky.
      Unfortunately, I live in a town where the local council LOVE firework displays. We have lots and lots including a three day firework competition.
    Interestingly, the displays are held within yards of a protected nature reserve AND a hundred yards from some rest homes for the elderly, and I know, for a fact, that those places have quite a lot of old folk with dementia who are convinced that they are back in the blitz - when the firework explosion start -and get into a terrible state.
    Finally, this “like it or lump it” attitude towards the disturbance caused by fireworks convinces me that - contrary to what many people believe - human beings are basically very, very selfish and not very nice as a species.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 02:15 PM

My dog has been trained to defecate on command ...admittedly when we go out for her morning 'emptying' walk! She chooses her spot..off the track (has to be exactly the right place). I always have poo bags to remove the dog logs from ground, take to bin.
The cat has several favourite spots in our jungle-like garden...none in a flower bed!
(I have seen a cat training method which enables them to use the human toilet! Seems to work....)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 03:41 PM

I was joking about them all deserving to be shot, Moll - I've kept cats and like them well enough. I just wanted to make the point that broad-brush sweeping statements are easy to make, but not so easy to justify.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 03:43 PM

My Border Terrier pees and poos on command too although, as you say, he demands the right to personally select the precise 'right' spot - almost always on grass, very seldom elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 06:56 PM

.....i still wanna know what Steve's gonna do if he ever needs an assistance dog.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 07:37 PM

It's simple. I would rather hack off my dangly bits with a rusty machete than share my life with a dog. Even relatively clean dogs (and that's the best they ever achieve) stink. I bought this house 32 years ago from people who had two of those ghastly golden retrievers. Shaggy, smelly, slobbery, waggy abominations. "Don't worry, they're only being friendly." Well if I affected to be "only friendly" by jumping up with muddy feet on strangers' chests, trying to make love to their shin, then leaving a disease-ridden pile of poo on the grass in the park, I'd have been spending most of my life in an institution. It took two years to extirpate the pong of dog from the house. Get a life and make friends with real human beings, not some sycophantic, intelligence-free purveyor of bad breath and an unwiped arse. You will never find me relying on any cur. That will simply never happen. I absolutely promise you. I'd rather die on a spike. And I probably will if John reads this. Allow me a small mercy, BWM, and leave your hound at home as you come to impale me. At least I'd die without the pong of dogshite in my nostrils.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 08:47 PM

Prick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:16 PM

Y'know Steve, this thread is clearly a conversation, between concerned animal lovers, about the negative effects of fireworks on their pets. By coming in with your nasty, spiteful, and unnecessary comments, you're indulging in the same kind of mischief-making as our resident Right-Wing Extremists inflict on 'political' threads. Your posts are quite deliberate attempts to offend the dog-owners here and stir up I'll-feelings - you know as well as anyone that that is the behaviour of a troll.

We get it, you're afraid of dogs, and a squeamish wimp where they are concerned - well tough shit, that's your problem, nobody else's. And nobody forced you to involve yourself in this thread, you could have passed it by, but you've chosen to do so yourself, and you've chosen to do it in a particularly unpleasant, trolling manner.

I'm very disappointed, I thought far better of you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: leeneia
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 10:00 PM

Should fireworks be banned?

In my city, they are banned. Yet fireworks go off all the time, and on New Years Eve and the Fourth of July, they are so common the police simply give up.

Not last year, but the year before, somebody lost a hand. People lose hands, fingers, eyes. Burns and small fires are common. And of course, pets are frightened and run away.

We can't seem to stop the people who light the fireworks, but we can let our dogs hide in the garage or in the car. Better yet, in the car while it's in the garage. (Put Beethoven on the CD player, really loud.) Or we can take our pets and go visit the country.

AS for you-know-who, he was typing as 12:37 at night. After a Saturday night. What does that tell us?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 01:27 AM

Guy Fawkes' signature, before and after torture.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 02:43 AM

"It's simple. I would rather hack off my dangly bits with a rusty machete than share my life with a dog"
I can think of a few human beings I feel that about - only a few though
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 03:53 AM

So Steve, not all that fond of dogs then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 04:44 AM

That's the way to do it... :-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 08:04 AM

Good grief Backwoodsman, that was hair-raising! Any idea which country the chap was in? I can't imagine it was UK. He could have literally blown his face off!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 10:31 AM

Sorry Sen, a buddy of mine shared it on FB but made no comment about where or when it was videoed. I reckon he was either very grave or very foolish!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 01:43 PM

"It's simple. I would rather hack off my dangly bits with a rusty machete than share my life with a dog"

Check out what they did to Guy Fawkes…


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 02:33 PM

Looking at the tropical trees in the background Bwsm, it could be somewhere in Africa. And the chanting sounds a bit African too.

It's odd to think that terrorism with explosives existed even in 1605. But the torture of Fawkes was disgusting and unnecessary. However, in those times it was considered perfectly acceptable to inflict barbaric and agonising torture methods to extract information.

We visited the Tower of London a few years ago, and my husband was horrified at the rack and other cruel items to be seen there. Similar items are on show in the dungeons of Norwich Castle. We wondered about the type of men who were prepared to do this work for payment (ie executioners, rack turners, red-hot iron pincer appliers and so on) Horrible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 03:23 PM

So you're a dog-lover then, John... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Nov 18 - 01:28 PM

Someone mentioned N Ireland way back, and I mentioned Edinburgh Festival Fireworks. My brother-in-law is from NI and had never ever seen fireworks before we took him to the Festival Fireworks a few years back. Talk about a wee bairn (he's over 6ft tall) in a sweetie shop!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Nov 18 - 01:40 PM

Senoufou/Eliza, the story that sticks in my mind
about the Tower of London
is the tourist family who had boys under the age of ten.
The boys were utterly fascinated with all the torture details,
and the tour guide was hard put to conceal his amusement --
"boys that age" and so on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Nov 18 - 02:30 PM

I've taken pupils of around eight years old to Norwich Castle many a time, and they were horrified at the cruel things that the guide showed them.
I reckon though that they were already in 'fear mode' as he'd turned off the lights to show what it was like for prisoners in the deepest dungeons. It always stayed dark for just a bit too long...

I often felt a little hand grope for mine and another one holding on to my coat before the lights went on again.

I wasn't feeling too chipper myself to be honest!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 01:26 AM

That's the kind of experience that convinces kids that deep down, adults are really nuts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 08:46 AM

Incidentally, I'd have sympathy with Steve Shaw's feelings about dogs. A lot of people (not me, I say with a saintly smirk) bring up their dogs to be very dislikeable - pushy and unmannerly, even if it's expressed as waggishness. Anyone who takes on a dog should train it to be civil; it may have to look for another home, and it has a far lower chance if it's a pushy or unpleasant dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 09:01 AM

We've just got home from shopping, and there were a couple of gigantic dog turds on our drive, near the pavement. Some blasted dog owner hadn't bothered to clear up after their animal.
Husband fetched a shovel and some newspaper, and dealt with the mess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 10:24 AM

The ones who really get me are those who DO pick up their dog mess in a plastic bag, but then leave the bag on the pavement, grass verge, or worse still, sling the bags up into trees, where they remain dangling from high branches. Just WHAT is that all about?
Would like to put a great big firework under people who do that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 10:49 AM

"But its only a small minority who let other dog-lovers down..."

No it bloody isn't. It's most dog-owners, who pick up the shit only when someone has seen them, and a healthy minority of those are the tree-slingers. I mean, who'd want to tote a fresh dog turd around for miles? Indeed, who'd want to feel the lovely, soft, smelly warmth of that turd through a thin plastic bag anyway?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 10:57 AM

In my experience, most dog owners pick it up and dispose of it where there are bins. Where there aren't…


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:00 PM

Those are the ones you see, and who have seen you see. Watch the ones who haven't seen you see them. No picky-up!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:05 PM

Well, I walked my dog for 17 years, and the number of times I was caught out without a bag would be under five; even then, if possible I went back with a bag and picked up later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:41 PM

Dog owners in our village are usually excellent about picking up the poo. I wonder if someone's dog was roaming about unattended?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:47 PM

You really must stop making these broad-brush, sweeping, unverifiable statements (which, by virtue of lack of proof, could easily be construed as hysterical lies), Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 06:41 PM

Well, I could go around the walks round here and take photos of the turds to show you, but I'd need a very large memory card and in any case I prefer to gaze heavenwards to view the clouds and the stars. There's an obvious risk in that, of course. After all, I wouldn't be watching out for cur turds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 09:21 PM

dog do, really/I know it sounds disgusting, but its a thing you have to do,If you live with mans best friend you have to pick up poo!They come in different sizes, that's the poo's not the dogs,Thats why I chose a little pooch, I don't want to pick up logs! Now if my fury friend goes to toilet in the garden, I tend to get sense of joy, if I find a harden. Because picking up the soft ones is really quite a task, Especially if the lawn needs mowing, your bag fills up with grass! I like to try and keep my lawn, tidy, short and trim,
I can then spot poo's a mile off and get them bin. Autumn makes things tricky when the leaves fall to the ground. Its like playing spot the poo in the different shades of brown! Now if your doggy likes to run to do his poop in peace, Finding it to pick it up is frustrating to say the least. In the winters frosty air, its not so difficult as it seems, The poop will show you where it is, just look out for the steam. I get in quite a pickle if my dog poops in a place, Where other dogs have done their business, a dilemma I must face. Poop Identification, is it mines, or is it not, But I know if I get the right one, as I grab it, its still hot!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 11:37 PM

Heh, Donuel!

Steve Shaw, it really sounds as if someone or some people is/are letting dogs out to roam.

If I had my way, people would have to have a licence to own a dog - yeah, I know they do, and no, I don't mean like that. I mean only people who had the proven civility to live in society should be able to apply for such a licence and be examined for it.

For instance, a few years ago I met a particularly lovely lurcher on our rather traffic-heavy street. I took her in and found that she had an ID tag, but the number on it rang out. In the morning I rang again - it was a city council number because she'd been a rescue dog. The council staff said they'd ring the owner.

So I waited, and after a while I got a call from a sleepy-sounding man who said he'd let his dog out to have a trot around the night before, and could I keep her for a few hours more because he'd come home on a long flight the night before and needed more sleep! I was to drop her around, rather than him collecting her. Or I could just let her out and she'd come back.

It must be 10 years since this happened and I'm still raging!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 02:33 AM

"Well, I could go around the walks round here and take photos of the turds to show you, but I'd need a very large memory card and in any case I prefer to gaze heavenwards to view the clouds and the stars. There's an obvious risk in that, of course. After all, I wouldn't be watching out for cur turds."

Yes, Steve, you're correct - **some** irresponsible owners don't clean up their dogs' shit, the evidence of that is there for all to see, and I deplore the anti-social attitude of those people just as much as you do. But there is no evidence of the number of owners who pick it up, because....they've picked it up!

So your broad-brush, unverifiable statement, "No it bloody isn't. It's most dog-owners, who pick up the shit only when someone has seen them, and a healthy minority of those are the tree-slingers." doesn't hold water and, if you don't understand that fact, you're really not much of a 'scientist' are you?

And as for, "I mean, who'd want to tote a fresh dog turd around for miles? Indeed, who'd want to feel the lovely, soft, smelly warmth of that turd through a thin plastic bag anyway?", the answer is, "Probably nobody, but we do it as a matter of social conscience". I certainly do, and so do the fairly wide circle of dog-owners I com into contact with - including when I'm out in the fields alone with my dog, because I know that dog-shit is poisonous to sheep, and pretty bad for wild-life in general.

Now, when you had your cat(s), how fastidious were you about following them around and recovering their shit from wherever they left it? Let me guess - not at all.

People, glasshouses, stones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 02:46 AM

Yeah, it's like the enraged drivers who point to empty bike lanes as they sit in traffic jams and say the emptiness proves they're unused. Nope, the emptiness proves that someone on a bike can whizz along and disappear while they're looking down at their phone to check Facebook!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 04:20 AM

Hahahaa! This thread should now have the title changed to 'Should Dogs Be Banned?' or perhaps 'Should Poo Be Banned?'


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 06:15 AM

Well I certainly find something a little imperialistic about dog-lovers wanting to ban other people's fun because it upsets their delicate pooches once a year. Man up, hounds!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 07:33 AM

I wonder why nobody complains when spoilt little madams on their posh-girl ponies ride blithely on after their Smelly mounts drop half-a-hundredweight of steaming shite on the footpaths i use. Now that's really something worth pissing and moaning about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 08:11 AM

We have a riding stables in our village, and any manure on the road gets gathered up immediately by residents for putting on the rhubarb or the roses.
(Couldn't imagine doing that with dog poo though)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 08:23 AM

Well I wish your residents resided where I reside, Sen - we Have a National Cycle Route near here, where I used to take my dog for long off-lead walks. But I gave up because of the huge quantities of horse-shite lying around, which my dog would invariably eat while I was otherwise occupied picking his turds up, and then he'd be sick. Talk about insult to injury! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 08:35 AM

Ugh poo AND sick! That's awful Bwdm. Some dogs like rolling in horse manure don't they?

Our stables sell bagged-up 'well-rotted' manure for 50p a go at the gates of their establishment.

I've just mucked out our cats' litter tray (I do it every day) and I agree it must be very annoying if cat-owners let their cats deposit all that in their neighbours' gardens.

In our last house, the huge garden (half an acre) was great for our five cats to use, not to mention the set-aside field beyond, separated only by a shallow ditch. So I'd say no-one has ever been troubled by cat poo from our moggies.

It's our Wedding Anniversary on Sunday (Remembrance Day, so no excuse for His Nibs to forget eh?) and I'm tempted to have my revenge and set off a myriad fireworks for two solid hours. I could say it's in honour of the Armistice or something. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Mossback
Date: 13 Nov 18 - 10:34 AM

Interesting fact-


If you put all the American dogs, cats and other pets on their own island, they would rank fifth in global meat consumption, behind Russia, Brazil, the U.S. and China.

Without cutting the overconsumption of meat by pets ... it will be almost impossible to prevent global warming from passing the danger level of a 2 degrees Celsius temperature rise.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dogs-environment-cats-pets-food-meat_us_5be94743e4b0e84388999f40


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 12:52 AM

Just had an email from the government Petition Site regarding the outcome of a petition I signed to ban public sale of fireworks, and restrict firework use to licensed public displays only.

Obviously there are a lot of people who feel the same as I do - at least 100,000 of us - because the issue will be debated in the HoC on 26th November. I hold out very little hope of anything changing, but at least the issue has been put on MPs' radar. Sadly, I expect them to come up with the old "The majority of the public use fireworks sensibly and responsibly" chestnut, but they wouldn't say that if they had to endure the equivalent of the opening barrage of The Battle of The Somme for the best part of a fortnight every autumn.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 03:24 AM

Well done Bwdsm, I think you may be right though. There's money to be made selling fireworks, and the Government might be labelled 'Killjoys'.
Talking of loud bangs, on the ramparts of Edinburgh Castle they fire a very loud gun at 1pm every day. When I used to live there, I was once asked by an obviously tourist couple on Princes Street, "Excuse me, do you know what time they fire the one o'clock gun?" I dissolved into giggles...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 03:28 AM

I've stood by that gun (or as close as they allow the public, which is surprisingly close) as it was fired - one bang at a set time, once a day, seems very reasonable to me, and the touristas love it.

Damned if I can remember what time they fired it though! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 03:40 AM

Ha Bwdsm, I went with my husband on the plane to Edinburgh a couple of years ago, and my sister and I took him to the Castle. He was amazed and delighted (he loves History)
We arrived on the ramparts just as they were preparing the gun, and they fired it with military precision.
He then asked me if it was 'pour décourager les anglais?'. Actually, I shouldn't wonder if he was partly right!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 03:46 AM

"Sadly, I expect them to come up with the old "The majority of the public use fireworks sensibly and responsibly" chestnut, but they wouldn't say that if they had to endure the equivalent of the opening barrage of The Battle of The Somme for the best part of a fortnight every autumn."

"The majority of dog lovers, allegedly, pick up their cur turds responsibly, but the rest of us have to endure the piles of shite from the rest for 365 days a year."


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 04:00 AM

The thing is Steve, I don't just object to public access to fire works on behalf of the dogs. It's the dreadfully loud noise which disturbs humans too, and goes on until late at night for weeks.

I also fear for the safety of the users. A&E see loads of burns and injuries when youngsters misuse them or fling them around.

Not only that, but in some areas they're chucked at people's windows, through their letterboxes and at passing cars.

And of course the poor fire fighters have leave cancelled for 5th November (possibly the preceding week too) and spend the entire time flying about dousing no end of conflagrations.

If displays were restricted to local Council ones, people could enjoy the fireworks under safe conditions, the time for loud bangs would have a limit and none of the above problems would occur.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 05:03 AM

Fuck off Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 08:16 AM

"Not only that, but in some areas they're chucked at people's windows, through their letterboxes and at passing cars."

By the same logic, we should ban all dogs because a few people leave dog shit lying around (more than a few, as it happens). I don't like the idea of banning things because of abuse by minorities. We don't restrict cars to maximum speeds just because some people speed. We don't ban all gambling or boozing because a minority become addicts. We don't ban food packaging because some people leave litter. Etcetera.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jos
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 08:36 AM

"We don't restrict cars to maximum speeds just because some people speed."

Oh, I thought we did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 08:51 AM

Should Steve be banned from defecation?
If you find the idea repugnant, vote no more pooping by Steve - unless he becomes a dog lover.

Steve I suggest a fast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 09:29 AM

I actually see what Steve means. Banning everything is a bit swingeing and curmudgeonly.
I just think that some form of regulation and control is in order.

With organised public displays people could still enjoy themselves but dangers and nuisance would be reduced.

And while dog poo isn't very nice, fireworks are actually dangerous.

I think Steve should be allowed to poo when he wishes. As long as he limits the decibels of his explosions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 09:31 AM

No, Jos. I think the point is that going over the speed limit is illegal but not actually banned. In fact, if you drive a BMW, they are only there to be ignored...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 09:46 AM

I meant that we don't install gizmos which limit the speed of cars. Sorry!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 10:16 AM

dog poo isn't very nice, fireworks are actually dangerous.

Dog poo can in fact be quite dangerous- it commonly transmits Whipworms, Hookworms, Roundworms, Tapeworms, Parvovirus, Coronavirus, Giardiasis, Salmonellosis, Cryptosporidiosis, Campylobacteriosis & a host od other diseases & parasites.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 01:58 PM

However responsible dog owners ensure that dogs are treated with preventive medications so the above listed are not an issue!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 02:37 PM

Ah, but it IS an issue, despite what the few responsible owners do & because for some of these pathogens there are no preventative medications.

Remember that next time your dog licks its ass and then licks your face, or when your young children get into dogshit that no-one has picked up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Nov 18 - 10:39 AM

Going back to the extra work the Fire and Rescue crews have to do on and around November 5th, it is outrageous that they are getting attacked while carrying out their duties, bricks and stones hurled at them, etc. So they send in the Police to protect them, and they get attacked too. Whole streets are having to be barricaded off in some parts of our and other cities.
And agree with Mossman: you can give your doggies all the pills you like but they will rapidly become re-infested/infected with the various pathogens listed.


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