BS: distant relations.....

Subject: BS: distant relations.....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 04:59 AM

The current thread about John Reilly has brought up the term 'distant relation'.
I was reminded of the Tony Hancock sketch....

Tony: I can trace my family right back to Rufus Hancock
Sid James:Who was he?
Tony; My Dad....

The late Derek Brimstone told me he wrote his autobiographies, because he thought history was written just by rich guys, generals, Kings and Prime Ministers.

Its odd how you can visit somewhere like Hampton Court and feel very close to Henry VIII, but the motivations of my own parents seem almost a closed book.

My distant relations are actually very close. I suppose I am distant from young folks in thoughts and outlook. I am already a distant relation.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 05:28 AM

Having researched my family history for the last 40 years or so, one of the fascinating facets of it, for me, is how - depending on marriage and births - some generations can be closer or more distant than their equivalents.

For example, I can remember my paternal great-grandfather reasonably well; he was born in 1870 and died in 1952. I have a photo, taken in 1946, of me, father, grandfather and great-grandfather. He would tell stories of HIS grandfather, who was born in 1816 - so I can tell MY grandchildren family oral history from the early Victorian era. Assuming, of coure, that family stories are factual which, in some cases I've checked up on, is dubious!

By contrast, my maternal great-grandfather was born in 1842 and died in 1912 - 32 years before I was born. A whole generation of difference between these two grandfathers. If he'd been able to tell me stories of HIS great-grandfather, we'd be back to 1786! All a product of one family line marrying early in life and having my ancestral line early in marriage - and another marrying late in life and etc., etc.

As for my own parents, it was really only after they died that I got to know them.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 05:51 AM

A distant relation of mine was the Chairman of Manchester United (when it bore some resemblance to a football team) but the family doesn't like to talk about that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 08:56 AM

My sister traced our family tree through our father's side and found that every generation back to the 17th Century was involved with seafaring. Masters and Sea Captains, fishermen, Customs and Excise at seaports and in later years Air-Sea Rescue and the Merchant Navy.

I positively hate the sea, and get terribly seasick just looking at the blooming thing from the shore. When I was taken to see the film 'The Sea Shall Not Have Them' I felt seasick from my cinema seat. Quite recently, I was seasick on a boat trip along the Thames!

Now my Irish mother was very dark with jet black hair, and always maintained she was descended from black people. Even her surname means 'black' in Irish. (She was from Cork)
We can't trace her ancestry because records in Ireland have been destroyed in most cases.

I have always felt extremely interested in West Africa, and when I was a small child I chattered away in a strange language, which I assured my mother was 'African'.
I was destined to marry a West African and to travel to many countries there.
So maybe my genes are from the maternal side, not the paternal one!

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Jos
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 09:50 AM

I've heard two items on Radio 4 recently about people growing up in Ireland with white parents but looking African.
One was an African-looking girl who had always been told that she was a throwback from some earlier ancestry. She later discovered that her mother had had a brief fling with an African.
The other was a theatre director who was given a grant from the Arts Council intended for black or ethnic minorities, in spite of having white parents and grandparents.
Is this common in Ireland? It is strange to hear of three cases within a few days (even if one did turn out to have a realistic explanation).

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 10:05 AM

Weird...black Irish people.

There WERE obviously black people around. Do you know that third verse of Balleyjamesduff, where French says he doesn't like girls 'of the blackamoor kind'.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Jos
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 11:00 AM

Very dark people may have arrived in Ireland as sailors, not just from shipwrecked Armada crew, but going back to Roman times and even Greek traders, travelling from southern Europe, the Mediterranean and Africa. That could be why the claim that the daughter was a 'throwback' would have seemed plausible.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:29 PM

Eliza - might be worth doing a re-check of Irish records. More and more stuff is coming online after modern research of various records.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:40 PM

I might get my sister to have a go Will. She's very clever at these sort of things, and her daughters are very techno-savvy.
Oh I would absolutely love to discover that I have African genes!

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 01:55 PM

We all come from Africa if you go back far enough.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 02:29 PM

With a name like Donuel Webster Blagg Jr. I don't wanna know.
But I do know my cousin Gene Hackman.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 03:11 PM

I didn't know we came from Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 04:02 PM

The cradle of man is thought to be Kenya - if you go back far enough.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: fat B****rd
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 04:45 PM

My Mum's cousin was Horatio (Raich) Carter. So there!

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 05:17 PM

Senofou, I was reading a past issue of History Magazine yesterday & came across a story about Africans/Moors in the Tudor period. I can't search the magazine site, but did find a number of other articles with a google search on "africans in tudor england"

here's one - The Africans Who Called Tudor England Home

so maybe ...

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 05:20 PM

I have done research for several years, and am fortunate that my father's family was in western Pennsylvania, having moved there from 'the colonies' in the mid 1700s.(New Jersey, Delaware, Connecticut,etc..) There were pretty good records kept of the early colonists, so I can follow links back to England, Wales and in a few cases to France and The Netherlands. I actually have good links to 2 governors of the Massachusetts Bay Colony..(Simon Bradstreet and Thomas Dudley)... and then to various English lords & ladies. It does seem I am descended mostly from 4th sons and 5th daughters, so not exactly in line for peerages.... but some links go way back to the 1300s and before.
My mother's family (Martin) was in early Virginia, but the records are not nearly as precise as in Penn. Still, the Martins of Albemarle county Virginia go way back to Martin of Tours in about 1066 who 'may' have been with William. It is fuzzy exactly which Martin I am descended from, since it seems half of them were named Abraham or Abram or Robert or Thomas and married Sarahs and Elizabeths and Marys.
Still, it is fascinating to look up places in the 'old country' where some of my ancestors lived. Every month or so someone updates some link.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 05:48 PM

Sandra, that's most interesting, thank you for that!

My father's Scottish surname comes under clan Mackay, and the motto is 'Manu Forte' (with a strong hand)

My mother's family motto is 'Like Lightning'.

I must be very quick and powerful! (And perhaps a bit African too!)

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 04:53 AM

A distant relation of mine was Chancellor of the Exchequer he served as Chancellor of the Exchequer from 1885 to 1886 and again from 1895 to 1902 and also led the Conservative Party in the House of Commons from 1885 to 1886.,My mother joined the communist party and those relations became distant and somewhat icy, to say the least

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 08:22 AM

Whoever my antecedents were, I'm glad they didn't stay in Africa. I was watching telly the other night and there was this lion who'd been chewed up by a hippopotamus.

That could have been me, being chewed up by a hippo.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: ripov
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 08:14 PM

I've always had a little chuckle at the name "John Blanke" referred to in Sandra's link. Blanke or Blanc being french for "White"!
An affectionate nick-name?

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Nov 18 - 04:22 AM

It would be very hard for my husband to trace his family tree back beyond living memory. His parents had no birth certificates and no idea in which year they were born, never mind the date.

There were no official records as births weren't registered. For official documents, everyone still alive who wasn't registered is given the birthday of January 1st. I thought all these New Year's Day birthdays was an amazing coincidence until it was explained to me!

Griots can recite the ancestry of an individual (only males) and do so at marriage feasts etc. But they don't go back all that far.

My husband fell over laughing when I told him it's been discovered that most white people have about 2% Neanderthal genes in their genetic profile, while black Africans have none. He didn't stop grinning about it for days.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Jos
Date: 10 Nov 18 - 05:10 AM

Senoufou, you must have been wondering what exciting customs people got up to round about April Fools Day.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Nov 18 - 06:00 AM

Hee hee exactly Jos. A special annual 'Conception Day' perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 18 - 04:40 AM

We had a laugh when visiting Epcot and the Kennedy Space Centre with my cousin. There were signs for "guest relations" so we wondered if we could find more family there :-)

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Michael
Date: 12 Nov 18 - 06:35 AM

The Feast of the Immaculate Conception coming up soon; 8th December, will that do Eliza?

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 18 - 06:56 AM

If the immaculate conception occured on the 8th of December it was either a very long or very short pregnancy :-)

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Jos
Date: 12 Nov 18 - 07:09 AM

When other biblical events were taken into account - Herod, the wise men led by a prominent star - it was concluded by some investigators that Jesus was born several years earlier than ZER0 BC/AD, more likely 4 BC, and that the event would have taken place in about October, which would make an early December conception a possibility - but then, what grounds are there for thinking that the Christian date for celebrating the conception is based on anything other than taking over a feast from an earlier religion?

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Nov 18 - 07:21 AM

I hate to be boring but the 8th December was when the decree 'Ineffabilis Deus' was issued saying the Immaculate Conception was a church dogma: the date has nothing to do with the conception itself.

But, in the hope of something more interesting, Lady Day on March 25th has traditionally been associated with the conception (being 9 months before Dec) and that, coupled with the change of calendar is claimed by some books on the history of the calendar to explain why the UK tax year starts in early April.

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Michael
Date: 12 Nov 18 - 10:27 AM

It's nowt to do with Christmas, it relates to Mary's birth.

The Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception celebrates the solemn celebration of belief in the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary. It is universally celebrated on December 8, nine months before the feast of the Nativity of Mary, which is celebrated on September Wikipedia

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Nov 18 - 03:46 AM

My distant relations are in NZ**, how distant is that?
And how distant do you want? It can be second cousins once removed, and twice removed in some cases (closer geographically). You keep contact when closenesses die!

** other colonies apply also

Subject: RE: BS: distant relations.....
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Nov 18 - 04:12 AM

My Great Uncle Temple apparently went out to Australia in the Twenties and made a great success of sheep-farming. His name (and our surname) is quite unusual, so it wouldn't be hard to find out what became of him.
(And there may be some very rich descendants to get to know. I could do with a few millionnaire distant cousins hee hee!)