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A repository for your music pictures...

Tony Rees 20 Nov 18 - 05:43 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 20 Nov 18 - 06:06 AM
FreddyHeadey 20 Nov 18 - 08:46 AM
Tony Rees 20 Nov 18 - 10:49 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 20 Nov 18 - 10:51 AM
Tony Rees 20 Nov 18 - 11:05 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 20 Nov 18 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 20 Nov 18 - 02:59 PM
Tony Rees 20 Nov 18 - 03:42 PM
Steve Gardham 20 Nov 18 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 20 Nov 18 - 06:30 PM
FreddyHeadey 20 Nov 18 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 21 Nov 18 - 03:12 AM
Tony Rees 21 Nov 18 - 03:51 AM
C-flat 21 Nov 18 - 08:04 AM
Tony Rees 21 Nov 18 - 08:13 PM
Tony Rees 22 Nov 18 - 07:46 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 22 Nov 18 - 11:27 PM
Tony Rees 23 Nov 18 - 12:09 AM
DaveRo 23 Nov 18 - 02:19 AM
Tony Rees 25 Nov 18 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Nov 18 - 04:27 PM
Tony Rees 29 Nov 18 - 02:06 PM
Tony Rees 29 Nov 18 - 03:20 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 29 Nov 18 - 04:04 PM
Tony Rees 29 Nov 18 - 04:13 PM
Tony Rees 02 Dec 18 - 01:41 AM
GUEST,Ray 02 Dec 18 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,Modette 02 Dec 18 - 10:14 AM
Tony Rees 02 Dec 18 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,Ray 02 Dec 18 - 05:17 PM
GUEST,Ray 02 Dec 18 - 05:22 PM
Tony Rees 02 Dec 18 - 08:36 PM
GUEST,Ray 03 Dec 18 - 01:23 AM
Tony Rees 03 Dec 18 - 04:54 PM
Tony Rees 03 Dec 18 - 05:19 PM
FreddyHeadey 03 Dec 18 - 07:28 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 04 Dec 18 - 03:45 AM
GUEST 04 Dec 18 - 04:27 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 04 Dec 18 - 05:06 AM
Tony Rees 04 Dec 18 - 05:16 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 04 Dec 18 - 10:13 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 04 Dec 18 - 10:19 AM
Tony Rees 04 Dec 18 - 03:49 PM
Tony Rees 04 Dec 18 - 10:09 PM
Tony Rees 04 Dec 18 - 10:10 PM
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Subject: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 05:43 AM

If you are like me, over a number of years of attending great music events I have on occasion taken my camera and used it to make some musical images that please me. For years (40+ in my case) I have selected the best ones and placed them in albums which sit in a cupboard (pre-digital days) or on my computer (nowadays) where they reside, mostly unseen and unknown to others... and if (deities forbidding) something were to happen to me tomorrow, they would most probably be disposed of to the nearest rubbish facility...

More recently, I looked through Wikipedia at pages on artists I had some admiration for and was surprised to find that a non-trivial component had no pictures of the artist(s) concerned. The reason for this, it turns out, that although good pictures may be around, they are not in a form that Wikipedia can use - basically they have to be freely reproducible by anyone, not copyrighted, and not restricted to just non commercial use. (For example a " Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike" license, which means that anyone can do what they like with the image, but they have to maintain attribution to the original creator).

I realised that I had images in my holdings that could fill some of these gaps and at the same time, I could ensure some degree of longevity for my images which would otherwise almost certainly be lost some time down the track. I also figured that "giving away" reproduction rights was no big deal in my case, since I had no plans ever to commercialise them.

So to cut to the chase, I decided that uploading a selection of my images to Wikimedia Commons (which serves as the "feeder" repository for Wikipedia content) would serve several different purposes at the same time: first, provide some useful content that could be incorporated into relevant Wikipedia articles; second, ensure the future preservation of those images at no cost or ongoing effort to me; and third, provide a degree of exposure of those images to others who might enjoy or value seeing them, not only now but in a future that we perhaps cannot even envisage (think of the value now of historic images from 100 or even 50 years ago).

So this is my experience - no particular down side in the 3 years or so that I have embarked on this - and I would be happy if I can persuade others to do the same if interested, and let some more music pictures loose into the world to see what happens. I know they are out there! - or, get reactions from other mudcatters on the above.

As I mentioned in a related thread yesterday, I maintain an index to images I have uploaded in the form of my Wikipedia user page (something which comes with contributing edits or new pages to Wikipedia), which you can visit here if interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony_1212#Music_related_2

Any comments or other experiences welcome...

Regards - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 06:06 AM

What will happen is that they will be harvested by Google images and used and reused by every man and his dog without any acknowledgement at all.

Businesses like Last.fm harvest music pictures wholesale and will never ever respect your copyright.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 08:46 AM

I think it's a great idea Tony.
If I had any I'd be happier for them to be 'out there' than in a draw which my executors will tip into a skip.

It'd be interesting to know how £much anyone had ever made from selling the photo of a folk singer.

There's a fairly interesting article here for anyone planning to copyright and sell their photos
https://medium.com/photography-secrets/how-much-should-you-charge-for-a-photograph-27f5ca0c965f

Presumably there is a date recorded by wiki which could be found by anyone interested in finding the original photographer.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 10:49 AM

Hi Peter (RE message above),

A few points in response - first, I am not a pro photographer and view my images as of some minor cultural but no commercial value - they are really little more than snapshots, most of not tremendously high resolution, of interest to a pretty boutique, and cash poor, market... if I were trying to sell my pictures for a living things would obviously be different (and they would not be of folk singers :) )

Second, Google images is your friend! It shows the world where the original of your image is and who has copied it, either with or without authorization, and with or without credit.

Third, Wikipedia is the most cited site in the world (at or near the top in web results for any search) and is scrupulous about crediting the sources of its images. Click on the image and the details are all there, including the date of original upload, the creator, and licence conditions if any, all good for legal purposes if ever needed.

Letting an image into the world without constraints is to my mind a bit like writing a song. If you let others hear it, if it is any good it can take on a life of its own and others might sing it. Some may lose sight of the source (accidentally or deliberately) but hey, there are people - many on this forum - who enjoy chasing such things down. I honestly think that finding the true source of an image for credit purposes is a no brainer these days with this interweb thingy.

And if someone can get rich re-selling my 30-40 images of a few folkies, that are already available for free to anyone who wants them, then I wish them good luck.

Just my 2 cents worth of course.

Best - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 10:51 AM

Depends on the photographer and what is being sold. I have seen prints by wellknown photographers of traditional musicians go at a premium in the collectors market

https://www.mutualart.com/Artwork/2-Works-Fiddler-s-light--donegal---Portr/FFCEE3F8D5C5FC9B

and digital prints at

http://www.christymcnamara.com/product/paddy-killoughery/


Licensing can vary, depending again on photographer, subject and use.

Years ago I supplied a series of photographs of traditional musicians who had died during the year, for use at a televised award ceremony. The producer asked for an invoice for their books, the broadcaster demanded that, but never paid. Go figure.

But putting photos online is like giving away your work. Once it's online people think it's free for all, including large professional organisations.

I must say, it's off-putting but I rarely put a snap online without obnoxious watermarks these days. I prefer to make photos available through the county library (although Clare Libraries' photo server is now down due to a technical problem, there are a few thousand there) or ITMA.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 11:05 AM

Hi Peter,

That's fine, I think we are talking about different markets, as well as quality of work. I am really aiming my comments at the "happy snapper" or perhaps enthusiastic amateur who may nevertheless have a few interesting shots in the drawer worth sharing, but who does not have pretensions to particular photographic excellence (speaking for myself at least).

Even if the above does not apply, one can release low resolution copies of images free to the web and keep back the high resolution versions for commercial use if that is a preferred option.

But your viewpoint is certainly valid for someone who takes a lot of care over their work and what happens to it.

Regards - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 11:29 AM

I have no illusions of photographic grandeur myself but I simply hate it when you leave even a low res copy of something on the net it will inevitably get hijacked by people and organisations who have no business doing so. Bitten a few times too often I suppose.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 02:59 PM

Tony - AWSOME photos.

Thank you for contributing to the spirit of our world.

Freely, freely, you have received,
And, freely, freely, you give.

Your time and talents are appreciated.

And you are one heck of fine photographer.

Thank you again. I am personally inspired.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

There are lots of parables and fables about ....


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 03:42 PM

Thanks Gargoyle! I see it as musical karma - put stuff out there and who knows what may happen in the future...

I was thinking that none of my photos had ever made it to published status but then remembered I was wrong - 5 of them were used on the cover of "Crows", Dingle's DIN 317, 1981, as shown here:

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/crows__gbr_/crows.p/

I should probably scan the originals and add them to my wikimedia/wikipedia offerings.

"Crows" included the late Ralph Jordan on guitar and concertina, who will be remembered for his past contributions to mudcat (as "Ralphie"). A lovely guy and it will be a privilege to upload his picture (actually I probably have more than one) to posterity.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 04:24 PM

Tony
I empathise totally with what you have done. The ethos of this very forum as I see it is sharing, mostly information yes, freely and without commercial interest. The very idea of Wikipedia is that of sharing, though looking at the bumf I get from them it seems to be a precarious existence. I do make a small donation now and then.

In my area (Hull) we have gathered together all of our records, paperwork, recordings, photos etc. and persuaded the local History centre to set up an archive for us. Eventually we hope to set up a website for it. If we weren't doing this I would happily follow your example.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 06:30 PM

Tony,I am overwhelmed with you example. (btw, Steve...the University of Hull funds a department chair for the study of pornography...I have vacationed with his brother)

Tony,your ability to collect and share ... parallels Dick and Susan's original idea of The Digital Tradition and Max's passion.

The tagging of your photos is the most valuable, added asset.
A decade old book, "Abient Findability" is a must read for librarians.
Knowledge and data, and, text, and images are useless, unless they can be accessed.

As a valued mentor said, "The subject is the elephant...however...the need is to focus on the left rear, littlest toe, of the elephant."


An abundance of photo/musical contributions to the "public domain" will surely follow, your example.

Thank You again.
Perma Thread Possibility?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle



small>Thank you, Dick, Susan, Max, and Joe, and Collins, and Samuels, and Lighter....and several score more.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 20 Nov 18 - 09:26 PM

Peter, thanks for the links.

And I see you do indeed have some great photographs and if they were mine I'd hope that someone would be prepared to pay to use them commercially.

The watermark seems a good way to at least have the visual information out there without someone exploiting you.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Peter+Laban&prmd=niv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRn6WdteTeAhWkJsAKHSK_B9cQ_AUIEygC&biw=800&bih=1280


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 21 Nov 18 - 03:12 AM

I probably sound like a raving lunatic when I go on about this, sorry about that but I feel strongly about certain things.

I don't know Freddy, that Google image search makes my point, some photos included there (and many are not mine at all) are ones I put online as part of forum discussions, left online perhaps for a week, untagged, anonymous. They still turn up long after I have taken them down from the hosting site, when searched under my name.

It's a shame the Clare library site is down, there are a few I like there.

There are a few decent ones at https://www.richesofclare.com/gallery-riches-2018 as well, covering a series of free concerts earlier this year.

I'd really love to be able to just leave things I like online but I have mostly stopped because of the blatant robbing and misuse. Anyhow, I'll go away now and say no more.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 21 Nov 18 - 03:51 AM

Hey Peter, just to say that I totally respect your preference to decide whether to release your photos into the public domain or not; they are your pictures and you control their distribution options. I can't comment on the Google images search issue in your case.

On the other hand, as foreshadowed above, I've had another dip into my archive and digitised some pictures of members of "Crows" from 1980 and 1983, also Les Barker (and Mrs Ackroyd) and the New Victory Band (or maybe they are Muckram Wakes, not sure) from 1980, plus a rather distant shot of the Albions from 1983, which can be seen via the link previously given (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony_1212#Music_related_2). Interestingly, Wikipedia has currently no (zero) images of the Albion Band or the New Victory Band, and only a very recent pic of Les Barker (nothing from his "heyday" years), while Crows do not presently have an article. I may rectify some of these omissions in a little while... Of course some better pictures would be appreciated, especially of the Albions since they ave been through such a huge number of lineup changes.

Best - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: C-flat
Date: 21 Nov 18 - 08:04 AM

Thanks for sharing those tremendous images Tony!

I've really enjoyed browsing your wonderful collection and must admit to some feelings of envy that you were present on so many occasions! Far too good to be kept in a private album in some drawer.

C-flat


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 21 Nov 18 - 08:13 PM

Thanks C-flat, I am enjoying sharing them. The cupboard is not bare yet but a lot of the remainder are local/part-time performers only (none the worse for that of course) that would not be of more general interest outside of their immediate circle, and/or the images do not meet a self-imposed minimum standard of photographic quality...

It is a nice exercise in revisiting events in my memory as well. Of course for every gig/concert that I brought a camera there were probably 10 or 20 (or more) that I did not, especially in the early days. Thankfully others have taken shots of many performers as well, and even if they are not released under an open licence, they can be found in many books and magazine records.

Cheers - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 22 Nov 18 - 07:46 PM

For the record, I've just finished uploading a few more images, visible in slidehow format from the link below onwards if you are interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony_1212#/media/File:The_Albion_Band,_outdoor_concert_at_Holland_House,_London,_summer_1983_(daylight).jpg

If you want to see them all you can start at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony_1212#/media/File:Ian_Date,_guitarist_on_stage_at_Bangalow,_NSW,_November_2015.jpg

and click through them.

Hoping that they will be enjoyable to mudcatters and others in the future,

Best - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 22 Nov 18 - 11:27 PM

Your identification notes are outstanding.

Do you have any suggestion on how to "batch-file" strip the digital meta-data from scans, and modern digital images?

Better yet, to re-write the and replace.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 23 Nov 18 - 12:09 AM

Hi Gargoyle,

No, I have never looked into this. However if you google (for example) "batch replace exif data", you will probably find something that will do it.

Normally I manipulate my files a little in a small editing program (Paint Shop Pro, had it for years and still does most of what I need) and save under a new filename before uploading to wherever. I am not sure whether this maintains the old image data or not, and if not, whether it inserts new values; others may know...

I did have access to Photoshop some years back and seem to recall it had quite extensive batch file-manipulating options such as changing names etc., but don't know about the metadata side of things, sorry.

Best - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: DaveRo
Date: 23 Nov 18 - 02:19 AM

GUEST,.gargoyle wrote: how to "batch-file" strip the digital meta-data from scans, and modern digital images
I use imagemagick to do that:
https://imagemagick.org/script/convert.php
-strip removes metadata


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 25 Nov 18 - 03:51 PM

A few more images uploaded now - though the pace is beginning to slow! Links as given around 4-5 messages above...

Regards - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Nov 18 - 04:27 PM

Tony - you are a remarkable photographer.

The right place at the right time...it is pure rhetoric.


Negative scans, B&W print scans?

...............


DaveRo


THANK YOU


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 29 Nov 18 - 02:06 PM

Hi Gargoyle (DaveRo), thanks again for your kind comments.

My main regret is that I did not take more pictures, and of more events that I attended, also not having sufficient interest to purchase a better camera in the early days (a time machine would be nice!). However as a poor student, even film/processing was comparatively expensive, at least until I started doing my own black-and-white enlargements (luckily I had access to free darkroom facilities at my place of study, just had to pay for my own paper, plus do it out-of-hours...).

My main interest was listening to the music and enjoying the experience, the odd photo was just a memento (not like today when everyone is a photographer/filmographer and very few events go unrecorded...) Of course I would not have been the only attendee with a camera, especially at festivals where the majority of these shots were taking (much better light than in a gloomy folk club, where I almost never photographed anything), so part of my initial entreaty was to see if more images might be forthcoming from others :)

Since you asked, the images I have put up (apart from recent digital ones) are just scanned from prints in my album, not the negatives (or transparencies in a few cases). The colour ones are without exception just machine prints as received back from the chemist, most quite small i.e. 5x3 inches so would have lost a little detail there, and there would be some additional detail on the negatives, although I do not really have the urge to try to scan these (maybe could revisit for a few special cases though...)

Now if only I had been a serious photographer, I could have ended up with a gallery like this (drool): Photographs by Brian Shuel on Getty Images. But then again, I probably would not be giving them away...

Best - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 29 Nov 18 - 03:20 PM

Actually in the early days (say 1973 onwards) I was more interested in making sound recordings than taking photos - however on a pretty low-fi portable cassette recorder, most probably unlistenable today, though I may dig some out and see :)

Cheers - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Nov 18 - 04:04 PM

Tony - I like your photos better than Brian's, by far.

His are the "stardard" promotional head-shots etc.

Your's on the other hand have spontanity, movement, and warmth.

Well done, and thank you again.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 29 Nov 18 - 04:13 PM

With respect, I have to disagree RE the quality and historical interest of Brian Shuel's shots, they are generally superb both technically and artistically and also represent a time before I and persons of my age were really involved with folk music and so are of considerable historic value. So, in a league quite a bit above my own, but them's the breaks... All good.

Cheers - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 01:41 AM

OK, I've uploaded another 30 or so shots from various venues in the UK (to 1986), Australia and the Netherlands; check the "Tony 1212" links given above if you would like to see them.

Actually I am short of person or group names for a few of them, if anyone can assist I will add relevant information to the files on Wikimedia Commons. The ones I am thinking of are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony_1212#/media/File:Mark_O%27Connor,_Cambridge_1985.jpg (the second mandolin player)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony_1212#/media/File:Chestnuts_Folk_Day_1985-1.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony_1212#/media/File:Chestnuts_Folk_Day_1985-2.jpg

Regards - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 09:42 AM

Hi Tony - I have a couple of photos of a young guitarist called Tony Rees somewhere!

Could the second mandolin player be a rather young Mike Marshall?

I've been resisting joining in on this thread for some time but I also have a collection of "old folkie" b&w negs (never printed) from back in the 70s which are on my to-do list to copy.

We spent many a happy hour back in those days push processing film after sessions at the local folk club and, to be honest, it's so long ago that I can't remember who's on them.

I also remember photographing a "Blues Legends" concert, some friends dragged me along to, back in those days and, as I've never really been into blues, I would have no idea who the subjects are. Assuming you haven't changed email address lately, I'll see if I can flirt some of the images over to you in case you recognise any of them.

Cheers
Ray


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 10:14 AM

Great photos! That flutist playing for dancers looks mighty familiar.

Sorry, but I've spotted a typo. It's 'Porchester Hall', not 'Portchester'.


Porchester Hal


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 01:52 PM

Hi Ray and Modette, thanks for chiming in...

Ray, from my recollection the three Americans on tour (Keith, Rooney and O'Connor) played with a local rhythm section (2nd mandolin and bass). I remember thinking the second mandolinist was very good but not American - so still waiting... The BBC broadcast around 20 mins of their set which I have on my shelf, great stuff with Mark O'Connor on absolutely the top of his form - his fiddling on "Footprints in the Snow" is sublime. (I think I recorded it off Australian radio though!)

I too have a number of photos of a young(er) Tony Rees playing guitar but am not about to post them!

Modette/others, someone must know about the dancers and accompanists, we will see... and thanks for spotting the typo, I have fixed it on the 5 original photos and the change will propagate through the system. Actually I had never heard of Porchester Hall before I went there in '85, and never heard of it again until now; nowadays with Google images and Wikipedia it all comes back!

I could also do with names for the lineup of Paddington's Pandemonic Express shown as well - I know Sam Stephens, Ralph Jordan, Caroline Frost (last 2 sadly no longer with us); I think one of the others is Dan Quinn (?next to Ralph); I have half an idea the drummer was Sue Evans-Taylor? From another thread the other melodion player is probably Trevor Bennett, perhaps the brass player is Nigel Carter? Since I did not know those folk or the rest of the band personally, I need others' assistance.

Best - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 05:17 PM

I remember Bill Keith touring with Jim Rooney and, on another occasion, Peter Rowan but I don’t remember Mark o’Connor ever performing in the northern reaches of the UK.

I’ll post a copy of the photo’ on Mandolin Cafe in the morning - somebody there will know; unless it is indeed some obscure Brit. I can visualise my old negative file but not exactly where it might be - I’ll have another look for that as well.

I don’t see why the repository shouldn’t include such luminaries as yourself!


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 05:22 PM

Again!

Just had a look at the next photo in the series. Is that Nick Baraclough on bass? That might suggest that the mystery mandolin player was a member of Telephone Bill .... Looks familiar but I can’t remember his name. I’ll dig out their records.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 08:36 PM

G'day Ray,

Well, the bass player could be Nick Barraclough from the appearance. Pretty sure the mandolin player is none of the Telephone Bill members, though - that would be Gerry Hale or Chris Cox, I don't think it is either of them. We need someone who knows that tour!

Cheers - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 01:23 AM

It's definitely Nick - the moustache is exactly the same as his photo on "Pretty Slick - Hough?" and it's definitely not Gerry or Chris.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 04:54 PM

Thanks to some enthusiastic discussion over on facebook, it appears certain that the Irish dancers pictured were from the northern academy called Clann na nGael. The musicians were possible the Knight brothers but still awaiting confirmation. The other band pictured at the Chestnuts folk day '95 have been ID's as the band for the dance side "Paddington's Pandemonic Express", somewhat disguised by relevant make-up. i should have remembered the latter of course as I know/knew several members, I blame early onset dementia... also have names now for the various Paddingtons band members in some of the other shots, thanks to all who responded. Cheers - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 05:19 PM

Returning to some issues touched on in my original post, a distinction that I did not initially appreciate, but no do, is that between the criteria for creating an article on Wikipedia, and uploading an image to Wikimedia Commons (where Wikipedia is just one of their potential downstream uses). In the present context (e.g. folk music artists), Wikipedia has a "notability" criterion which means that the person/artist/act must have been recognised by third parties as being "notable" in some way, such as magazine coverage, music release on a recognised label, etc. etc.

For Wikimedia Commons, however, the criterion is simply "useful for educational purposes" which is much more in the eye of the uploader. This is why I think it is valuable to use this site to document a number of the more "minor" and/or transient folk related persons and events on the basis that in future years, *someone* may find it of cultural value - while still excluding the "purely personal interest" (parties, friends, self, breakfast) that clutter up so many other photo sharing sites of a social nature.

In other words, Wikimedia Commons sits somewhere in the middle of a continuum between "significant content" and complete rubbish, and that suits me and my present purposes just fine. It also fulfils several other important criteria in my mind, including (hopefully) persistence (since there are presently 50 million images there and rising, someone will care about maintaining the archive into the future) and discoverability (it is one of the big players in the image hosting world, plus its search function works well), as well as being a not-for-profit / foundation backed operation, unlike e.g. Facebook, Google photos, Flickr and the like.

Just a few random musings from someone glad to be able to shift the burden of ongoing maintenance of my files to someone else, while retaining the facility to edit captions in real time as needed, discuss images further via a "discussion" function, etc. I have no doubt there are other ways to do this too but it seems a good solution for me, both in theory and from my experience to date.

Cheers - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 07:28 PM

Colm Keating has some fabulous contemporary shots(though he started 1978 I don't see any on the website)

Among my many other interests is Music and though I don't play any instrument I love listening to Irish Trad and Folk Music, which also offers me lots of photographic opportunities, in pubs, fleadh's and festivals...I get bored if I don't have something to do. If publicans switched on a few more lights I'd be a happy man - I'm all for atmosphere in a pub but some more light would be nice! 

Its hard to beat a live trad music session, played in good company, and served with cold beer...provided you're not driving of course...don't want the ethical police complaining!

https://www.colmkeatingphotography.com/gallery_403966.html

& more on Facebook
https://m.facebook.com/colm.keating.14/photos?lst=1230456348%3A100002421860622%3A1543881402


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 03:45 AM

Colm Keating always has lovely moments.

Jim Maginn's Irish music photographs are superb. There's a book and (there used to be a website, diddlydee, I seem to remember). Several others working the same field, Nutan, Tony Kearns, Christy McNamara among others. Liam McNulty, for example, quietly worked at the pipers for years, see ITMA for his work.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 04:27 AM

I am somewhat apprehensive about putting photographs up these days.

About ten years ago I put several up here on the cat and sadly there was a mischievous member who harvested them to create fake Facebook profiles of myself, my wife and several members I had met on my travels.

I requested the removal of all the photographs I had posted and locked all photographs on my social media.

Whoever he or she was they were a member of this forum and also a friend on the Mudcat Facebook group as some photographs were taken from that site also.

Personal photographic memories should remain exactly that, Personal.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 05:06 AM

If you put photos on Facebook you grant Facebook the right to license them for further use elsewhere. They're no longer yours and certainly no longer private. This is also the case on other sites, including photo hosting sites.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 05:16 AM

Hi Guest above,

Your concerns / past experiences are noted but should not deflect from the main thrust of this thread which is on how best to share images of cultural value, taken of performers in public places in the main, where (for a weird reason) copyright of the images is assigned to the photographer and not the person in them (for videos and audio recordings the opposite applies). Such images already exist - a lot more than just the subset being discussed here, which are those taken by mudcat members - and if persons wanted to use them for nefarious purposes, well that horse has already bolted I am sure. However it should not affect consideration of the bigger issue, which (in my case at least) is that I would like my images to persist and be potentially useful to others rather than go to the tip on my demise...

One could argue that the performers' privacy is being infringed by taking their photographs at live gigs but copyright law does not see it that way, at least in most venues (unless photography is banned by the management). Also if you think back to previous generations of performers in any genre, they are often made most memorable via images taken of them in performance, complementing other media such as sound recordings and concert footage.

Just my 2 cents worth of course,

Regards - Tony


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 10:13 AM

With the photoserver at Clare Library still down I just thought of the obvious: access it through the Wayback machine.

I have a fair number of snaps archived in the library's photo collection :

Laban Collection of Traditional music images @ Clare County Library


and these, a gallery I put up some fifteen years or more ago, seem to be still accessible :

Gallery @ Concertina.net


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 10:19 AM

OK, checking further it turns out the Wayback machine hasn't archived beyond the thumbnails . Sorry about that.


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 03:49 PM

Great photos Peter! Now all that is needed is for the Clare County Library to fix their server issue...


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 10:09 PM

And interesting, Peter, that despite living 12,000 kms apart we still have one subject in common (the migratory Dickie Deegan, pictured both in Hobart and in Miltown Malbay!)...


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Subject: RE: A repository for your music pictures...
From: Tony Rees
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 10:10 PM

Sorry, it is spelled Dicky. I knew him as Richard! - Tony


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