Rick Astley anyone?

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 02:55 PM

Well, Otis Blackwell's name pops up a lot when talking of singers who influenced Elvis.
Otis really should be more well known. He wrote the following hits for Elvis: All Shook Up, Paralysed, Don't Be Cruel, Return To Sender. And, he also wrote "Great Balls Of Fire" and "Breathless" for Jerry Lee Lewis, AND the wonderful "(You Give Me )Fever" for Little Willie John (and, of couse, the song was famously covered by Peggy Lee)
   Lots of Elvis's critics say that Elvis merely copied Otis's song demo - including vocal styling - when he ( Elvis) made his famous versions. But, again I would say Elvis's vocals are more interesting, more dynamic, than Otis's take on the songs.
The trouble with saying that Elvis ripped off black performers is that Elvis most definitely put his stamp on his "cover" version and certainly didn't copy the original. A good example of that is Carl Perkins "Blue Suede Shoes". Now, I know Carl isn't black, but the same thing applies. Elvis took Carl's song and made it more dynamic. Not, better, you understand, just very different.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:08 PM

When I mentioned Cass Elliot (ages ago) I should also have mentioned Denny Docherty. He was a great singer in his day. Trying to bring it slightly more up to date, I like Duffy, and will always listen to Paloma Faith. My Grandson even bought me her last CD. The track Guilty shows her full vocal range. The younger generation (Folk or otherwise) seem genetically programmed to take up where we left off. (That's especially true with IT by the way) so I for one am quite optimistic for the future when it comes to singing in all styles.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:16 PM

Last week I made an effort to seek out music by one great singer, and one pretty good 2 hit wonder...

Colin Blunstone and Brian Protheroe...

The 1970s string arrangements on some of CBs songs are sublime...

btw.. the singer Elvis was directly 'influenced by' - Roy Hamilton...

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:25 PM

Denny is one of those singers whose voice is so well know ( think "California Dreamin") but whose name is pretty obscure, I would think.
John Phillips had a knack of finding good singers. Scott McKenzie ( who had a huge hit with John Phillip's compostion "If You're Going to San Francisco") is another very talented singer who John promoted.
I loved Scott's first album. Great song choice. Great arrangements.
BTW, Scott performed with a later version of "The Mamas and the Papas"

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:28 PM

Elvis also recorded Bill Monroes great song ' Blue Moon of Kentucky ' Elvis met Bill backstage at The Grand Old Opry and apologised to Mr Monroe for what he'd done to the song [ he speeded it up ] Bill said to him that it was OK if that was what suited him, a week later Bill and The Bluegrass Boys were singing Elvis's version.

Nowt wrong with Elvis.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:40 PM

I've got - somewhere- a great live version of Bill playing "Blue Moon of Kentucky" ( with the great Kenny Baker on fiddle) where they start off playing Bill's slow version and then - half-way through - kick into Elvis's speeded-up take.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:42 PM

Roger Whittaker was far better.

:D tG

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:58 PM

I'm pretty sure that Rog was a better whistler than Elvis or Rick BUT Ronnie Ronalde could eat him alive.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 05:28 PM

Denny Docherty never got over his un requited love affair with Michelle Phillips, and hit the booze, which harmed his voice. Cass Elliot never got over her love affair with Denny, but as we know never lost her talents right up to the end. In all of that crowd which included John Sebastian and Barry Maguire, I could never figure out what Michelle Philips offered vocally. I thought Barry Maguire was a terrible singer, but seemed a very nice man. For me, for pure vocal ability in that era the Mamas and the Papas still hold the record. Michelle was replaced briefly and the band said they just did not have the right sound, so she must have had something. I'm not sure we've seen anything to beat them in that style of performance, however I'm open to suggestions and will look forward to listening.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 06:09 PM

One of the first LPs I ever owned when I became a teenager in 1971/2,
was a cheap reissue of the Mugwumps... [why - I haven't a clue...???]

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 07:41 PM

Well you've got Cass Elliot, and Denny Docherty on vocals and Zal Yanovsky's guitar playing so not a bad buy I think. Take a listen to Creeque Alley for the story of the whole era in song. Sebastian and Yanovsky ended up hating each other in the Spoonful, for some of the same musical differences we have seen argued out in this thread. Happy Days.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 08:33 PM

The Mamas and Papas were sublime, but a few of their best recorded songs were ruined by poor sound and badly out-of-tune backing music. California Dreamin' was an egregious example but was not the only one by a long chalk.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 08:33 PM

During the punk years I found a reissue of Zal Yanovsky's "Alive and Well in Argentina" LP in a record shop sale...

It was bonkers enough to fit in well with the anarchic mood of cultural upheaval
a lot of us late 1970s teens were making the most of...

I was also by then a fairly well informed Loving Spoonful fan,
and knew why Zal wasn't the most popular bloke...

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:35 AM

Evidently McGuire was the first California Dreamin' vocalist. I can see why he was replaced. You are right about the sound by the way. I found out recently that Burl Ives was John Sebastian's Godfather.
We've come a long way from Rick Astley haven't we? Sorry Dave! It's mostly my fault seeking the best of singers in popular music.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:37 AM

For pure quality of voice you have got to go a long way to beat Judith Durham. In my opinion of course. Make singer? Surprised there has been no mention of the big O yet. But in bringing up Rick I was never suggesting he was one of the greats. Just that I am enjoying his new stuff and, in particular, the song I linked.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:42 AM

Make singers=Male singers.

Damn you autocorrect!

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 08:39 AM

Documentaries occasionally give a glimpse into the multitrack tapes of classic recordings.

It's not unusual for the singer's track, when heard solo in isolation away from the instruments,
to sound cack...

But mixed into the full song, it sounds perfect for the arrangement and audio mix...

I have a high tolerance for singers who aren't very good,
depending on how much I enjoy the 'feel' of a recording of a song and performance...

Perfection can be emotionally sterile...

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 09:09 AM

Good point. I suppose it depends on sincerity, If they believe it so will you. There is an awful lot of play acting sincerity in popular music.

Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:00 PM

All these years, over here in the US,
I didn't notice that Rick Astley was from the UK, even.

I can see how his hit songs would polarize listeners.
Then, as now, I couldn't object to
his solid performances and easily comprehended diction.

Ought to look at his newer stuff.