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Rick Astley anyone?

Dave the Gnome 14 Dec 18 - 03:29 AM
Jos 14 Dec 18 - 03:42 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 18 - 03:51 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Dec 18 - 05:29 AM
fat B****rd 14 Dec 18 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 15 Dec 18 - 05:13 AM
Dave Hanson 15 Dec 18 - 09:13 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 18 - 09:29 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 15 Dec 18 - 09:45 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 18 - 09:52 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 15 Dec 18 - 01:53 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Dec 18 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 15 Dec 18 - 03:14 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Dec 18 - 03:16 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 15 Dec 18 - 03:26 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 15 Dec 18 - 03:40 PM
GUEST,Observer 15 Dec 18 - 03:49 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 15 Dec 18 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 15 Dec 18 - 04:37 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 15 Dec 18 - 04:42 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 15 Dec 18 - 07:36 PM
Backwoodsman 16 Dec 18 - 04:15 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 16 Dec 18 - 04:44 AM
GUEST 16 Dec 18 - 05:08 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Dec 18 - 05:14 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Dec 18 - 06:06 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 16 Dec 18 - 06:24 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 07:00 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 16 Dec 18 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 08:05 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 16 Dec 18 - 08:10 AM
SPB-Cooperator 16 Dec 18 - 08:15 AM
Will Fly 16 Dec 18 - 08:44 AM
Jos 16 Dec 18 - 09:03 AM
punkfolkrocker 16 Dec 18 - 10:18 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Dec 18 - 10:48 AM
GUEST,Modette 16 Dec 18 - 10:49 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 10:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Dec 18 - 11:01 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Dec 18 - 11:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Dec 18 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 12:21 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Dec 18 - 12:30 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 12:42 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Dec 18 - 01:02 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 16 Dec 18 - 01:13 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Dec 18 - 02:08 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Dec 18 - 02:14 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 02:18 PM
Backwoodsman 16 Dec 18 - 02:42 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 02:55 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 16 Dec 18 - 03:08 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Dec 18 - 03:16 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 03:25 PM
Dave Hanson 16 Dec 18 - 03:28 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 03:40 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Dec 18 - 03:42 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Dec 18 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 16 Dec 18 - 05:28 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Dec 18 - 06:09 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 16 Dec 18 - 07:41 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Dec 18 - 08:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Dec 18 - 08:33 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 17 Dec 18 - 03:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Dec 18 - 03:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Dec 18 - 03:42 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Dec 18 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 17 Dec 18 - 09:09 AM
keberoxu 17 Dec 18 - 03:00 PM
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Subject: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 18 - 03:29 AM

Yes, I know I may have lost it altogether, but I really like this song. Not seen the video before and found it wonderfully self deprecating.

Rick Astley - She makes me

Yes, I also know it is not folk by any stretch of the imagination, but does that matter if it is enjoyable?

Watch it. Enjoy it or hate it. I am just coming out of my Rick Astley closet...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Jos
Date: 14 Dec 18 - 03:42 AM

Not for me, sorry. You can enjoy it without me.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 18 - 03:51 AM

I've been a Rick Ashley fan ever since I saw him at the Manchester Arena doing the support spot for Peter Kay two or three years ago, so you're not alone Dave!

He was excellent that night, and this new single is great. Thats me 'outed' - let the brickbats fly, I don't give a FF! ;-)


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 18 - 05:29 AM

One man's fish is another man's poisson. Shack earn ah son goot an' all that. But, to me, he'll always be Rick Ghastly. Oddly, I've just endured the beastly Gary Barlow picking one of Rick's songs on Desert Island Discs. I'm sure Rick's a luvly feller, but you can keep his singing.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 14 Dec 18 - 08:20 AM

Love "Cry For Help"


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 05:13 AM

I like good singers. I love Cass Elliot, Karen Carpenter and my age group of popular singers. Rick has come into his own in the last ten years. There used to be a graffiti campaign against him in the 1970's 'Dickey Boy Astley' scrawled on his posters. The there was the disrespectful 'Rick Rolling' campaign. The man can sing and deserves his success. Here's a controversial one for you then. Van Morrison can't sing a note, and doesn't (as a singer). I'll just get my coat.....


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 09:13 AM

I thought I was the only person who thought Ivan [ Van ] Morrison was just a shouter, bloody awful IMHO.

As for Rick Astley, who he ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 09:29 AM

I'm not a fan of VM either - nasally, fake, boring.

There, I said it and I don't care!


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 09:45 AM

Of course, to spoil the party, isn't he surely just another Brit "singing American". his speaking voice is so far removed from his singing voice, that he comes across as a sort of Impressionist.
There really should be a title for these UK singers. They could be classified as tribute artists. The " tribute" is this case referring to American pop/rock singing styles.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 09:52 AM

You mean a bit like an Irishman pretending to be from the US Deep South?


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 01:53 PM

Interesting that one. Various artists had a go at singing in their own accents. Chas and Dave (I met Dave a while ago and chatted a bit about singing) Ian Dury who also couldn't sing a note, but knew it (and used it) coming a little more up to date Lily Allen didn't do a bad job on some numbers, however with the exception of Chas and Dave it never really worked for me. If you are going to play American music and you're a Brit, settle for mid Atlantic. Dave Burland does it all the time. Getting back to Rick Astley I really quite enjoy his later material, that said I wouldn't go out and buy it. I found it quite liberating as possibly Dave the Gnome did, to free yourself from all musical prejudice, and listen to everything afresh. You discover some quite interesting musical ideas that way. I'll forget Folk for a minute, and just list some singers who are excellent and some who are not in my opinion. On the plus side Boy George, Matt Monroe, Anthony Newly, David Bowie, Paul Rodgers, Minnie Ripperton, Arthur Brown, Grace Slick the already mentioned (above) Cass Elliot and Karen Carpenter and our Rick are great singers and in my hall of fame.
On the other hand Mick Jagger, Van Morrison, Badly Drawn Boy, John Lyden, Barry Maguire, Elvis Presley (I don't care!!) P.J. Proby, Cilla Black, spring to mind as ranging from the average to horrible.
Not that they or anybody else could care less what I think. Well it passed some time and allowed me to avoid 'Strictly' on the box.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 02:21 PM

some members of Take That are starting to look more like folksingers than even most folksingers...???


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 03:14 PM

Elvis is/was a fantastic singer!
His white contemporaries couldn't hold candle to him, and his range of material, in many ways, made him more interesting - back in the day - than almost any other singer.
One thing that I would say is that you had to be there to really appreciate how good Elvis was. But don't just take my word, just listen to what John Lennon, Buddy Holly, Bruce Springsteen. Phil Ochs, Bob Dylan, Robert Plant.... had to say.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 03:16 PM

Elvis v Tom Jones...???

well.. both equally respected and enjoyed in our house...!!!


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 03:26 PM

Here we go again BUT Elvis is the real deal whereas Tom will always be the guy from Wales who sounds like he comes from somewhere in the States. BUT, he does it very, very well.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 03:40 PM

Elvis Hmmmmm! Have a look what Arthur Crudup had to say, and Big Mama Thornton. Little Walter was lowered into his grave broke and stabbed to death in a street fight while Elvis pocketed the money for 'My Babe', and gave a second rate vocal performance of the song. Ask yourself this question. If Elvis had been ordinary looking, how far would he have got on his singing alone? He would have been a footnote in popular music.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 03:49 PM

On singers (Non-folk) there were two who stood out to such a degree that no-one has ever successfully covered their material - I am speaking of course of Frank Sinatra and Elvis.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 03:59 PM

Well, of course, there was a huge amount of jealousy coming from the black musicians BUT by covering material by black artists, Elvis was responsible for raising their profiles.

AND, Elvis's cover versions were in no way inferior to the original versions. Different, yes, but not inferior; indeed, Elvis's cover versions of Arthur Crudup's songs are - to my ears - far superior to the original. As are Elvis's backing musicians.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 04:37 PM

No sorry can't go along with that. Give me Crudup every time.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 04:42 PM

No!
Arthur isn't rated as one of the great blues singers even by die-hard blues' fans.
If you can't hear that Elvis's singing is so much better that Athur's on "My Baby Left Me", for example, then there is no hope for you.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 07:36 PM

Oh well. I'm off to eat junk food! It looks like I've just been ex communicated by the first Presleyterian Church of Elvis.
I think you are right. There is no hope for me to accept that Presley's gyrating and substandard vocals are even in the same universe as Arthur Crudup, Mama Thornton, Walter Jacobs and the other Bluesmen he helped to rip off. I am glad that Willie Dixon, Chuck Berry (Yes a Bluesman first) were wise enough to sort out The Beach Boys and Led Zeppelin when they did what they did.
That said, Muddy Waters always credited the Stones with getting his career back on track. I had an interesting conversation with Bill Wyman on the subject, and also mentioned it to Ronnie Wood when we met. So it wasn't all bad. My thoughts on Elvis were really about his singing, and they are not shared, as it happens by a lot of American Bluesmen including Paul Byrd the Texan Bluesman who is a committed Elvis fanatic, as is my wife by the way. I think you need to give me credit for being closely involved with the music business for Forty years, and my experience goes far beyond the Folk Scene, but fair enough that does not make me right, it just means I prefer Rick Astley. Oh yes that was what the thread was about. I am still amazed that Elvis provokes so much feeling, and nobody has answered my question above. If Elvis looked like a Warthog, how far would he have got on his singing alone. Honest answers please, (unless I've bored you to death)


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 04:15 AM

My view on Elvis is that he's Marmite. I love Marmite and I love Elvis, but I can understand perfectly why others don't, and I don't regard them as lesser human beings simply because their tastes don't mirror mine.

Rock on Nick! ;-)


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 04:44 AM

Hit the nail on the head! (or in my case in the head)


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 05:08 AM

It's got to be said = Elvis couldn't sing in tune and used his weird vibrato to conceal the fact. Tom Jones, who I don't like at all, never had a note wrong. Auto tuning is sorting it out these days.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 05:14 AM

I didn't, and still don't, find Elvis's vibrato 'weird' at all. And it was considerably less 'weird' than the weird 'inverted vibrato' used by many, mostly female, pop-singers today which makes them sound as though they're singing sharp. Rihanna and Beyoncé are perhaps the best-known offenders, but there are many others.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 06:06 AM

Some of you chaps seem to be missing the whole point about what pop music is all about. I won't go there, but let's just say that there are no rights or wrongs. Just enjoy what you like. As a matter of fact, most pop music these days is very well-crafted and has high production values. After that, either you like it or you don't.

And Elvis was fab. Cheers.

And if you want to hear people who can't sing in tune, by the way, try Andrea Bocelli or Maria Callas.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 06:24 AM

Not thought about it like that. You've got a point.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 07:00 AM

For God sake, deaf people should be banned from this forum. Can you idiots get it! Evlis - for his singing - was held in awe by Buddy Holly, Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs, Bonnie Raitt, Tom Jones, Jerry Lee Lewis etc.
He sang beautifully in tune. He could play with the melody he ways his contemporaries simply couldn't approach, and, of course, in the UK, all we had of Elvis was his records, apart from a few movie clips.
His voice was his calling card. And, what a voice it was.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 07:46 AM

Please Tunesmith keep it good humoured will you. It's a sharing of views and ideas, not a shouting match. Please may I apologise to the other members of this thread, no body here is an idiot. Tunesmith you like Elvis some people don't, it does not make them sub human, or tone deaf.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 08:05 AM

Nick, I found your comments about Elvis's singing offensive!
It's not about me "liking Elvis". It's about you not using your ears, and making silly, nonsensical statements.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 08:10 AM

OK that's enough. Sorry Dave that the thread went this way. Time to move on I think.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 08:15 AM

In answer to the tag line question, I am definitely NOT Rick Astley

.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 08:44 AM

I've never understood why anyone should get worked up about any performer. If you don't like them, you don't like them; if you like them, you like them. Why worry about what other people think? All taste is personal and all opinions can vary wildly. What does it matter?

I don't think I know anything by Rick Astley, so I can't comment. I think the early Elvis was unique and - as Sam Phillips recognised - brought a unique combination of styles to music. As for him ripping people off, well, "cover" versions of songs may well be more popular than the originals, sad though it may be. I prefer Big Mama Thornton's original "Hound Dog" to Elvis's version; on the other hand, I think he injects more sexual feeling into Smiley Lewis's 'One Night With You" than is in the original.

And think of poor old Arthur Alexander, who wrote and recorded superb songs - most of which were recorded and became hits for other people: "Anna", "You Better Move On", "Go Home Girl", etc.

Now, here's my confession: I can't stand Frank Sinatra - though I can appreciate his talent and artistry - and I only like early Billie Holiday, not her later stuff. I'll get me coat...


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Jos
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 09:03 AM

Will, I'm with you on Frank Sinatra, though I did read somewhere that people only start to like him when they get past their mid-forties, and this may be true as I admit I don't react quite so strongly to him as I get older.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 10:18 AM

When I wsa 17 and well into Dr Feelgood, Wilko, Eddie and the Hotrods pub rock R&B, and proto punk,
I hated Led Zep, Purple, and Sabbath, and had this immense ex grammar schoolboy sense of superiotity,
writing their fans off as a mass of boneheads...

From my 30s onwards I started really getting into music I used to revile in my teens...

.. including fat Vegas Elvis...

From the moment I met my Welsh mrs in 1982,
I had to start adjusting to her people's worship of Tom Jones...

One of my biggest disapointments was I was employed to work on his big late 80s comeback gig at the Hammersmith Odeon,
but couldn't make it in due to the transport strike...


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 10:48 AM

You're right Nick. Unfortunately there will always be someone who equates personal tastes with musical quality. I don't like much opera or jazz personally but would never dream of dismissing the aficionados of such as either cloth eared or mentally deficient. Sadly, there are those who class anyone who does not subscribe to their narrow view of what is good and bad as subhuman:-(

It happened with devastating effect on the stage of world religions. Luckily this is a minority interest internet forum and is not likely to result I the Spanish inquisition. Mind you, no one expects the Spanish inquisition... :-)


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 10:49 AM

Astley? Wasn't he a product of Schlock, Fakin and Slaughterman?


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 10:59 AM

A number of posters have said that I shouldn't get irritated if some Mudcatters don't like Elvis. That's missing the point!
Mudcatters can like - and dislike - who they want! But, what I won't let them get away with is saying that Elvis was a poor singer who sang out of tune because that is - to anyone with a pair of working ears -simply not true!


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 11:01 AM

Not sure, Modette. Does it matter?


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 11:54 AM

With all the real problems there are in the world today, the question of whether a Elvis sang in tune or not really is of very little significance - bottom of the pile. Pick your panties out of your arse-crack, and find something really worth getting them bunched over would be my recommendation.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 12:16 PM

Incidentally, tunesmith, only one person has said that Elvis sang out of tune and that was a Guest who would not even put his name to the comment. Others have said they felt he was not a great singer, which I agree with. He was however, in my opinion, a wonderful showman and that goes a long way in The music industry.

The guest troll has had you dancing to his tune and done a good job of setting you against other members for no reason at all. I suggest you just ignore him and look at what is being said by others rather than tilting at straw men.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 12:21 PM

Oh dear, save me from idiots. if musicians can't get emotional over the reputation of one of the greatest - most influential - music figures in 20th century, then we all might as well pack up and go home.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 12:30 PM

I'm already home... been here all weekend...


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 12:42 PM

Well, I guess I don't suffer fools!
As I have said previously, Mudcatters can like Elvs's singing or not BUT he was a great singer, and that's not a matter of opinion...it's a fact!
And, as I keep saying, that "fact" has been endorsed by most of the singers who followed him - black and white.

BTW, to come full circle, I bet Rick Astley thinks Elvis is a great singer ( has anybody got Rick's phone number?)


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 01:02 PM

I just listened to some Arthur Crudup whilst preparing dinner..

I liked it..

I also like Elvis.. so what's the big fuss about...

The only cringy crap singing I've heard all weekend was an early 80s recording
of Brummie Steve Gibbons singing rock n roll in the most atrocious fake yank accent...

Well.. apart from a white middle class children's entertainer adopting a shite rasta voice for a comedy reggae rap track..


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 01:13 PM

Sorry. Got to come back on that one. Just to get it straight for all of us lesser mortals, our opinions are just that opinions, but yonder muppet who does not suffer fools has a divine telephone to the truth and therefore his or her opinions are facts. That's the thing about truth, she was an old woman, and the last thing she said before she died was 'Please tell them I died young and beautiful!'
So here's a suggestion, lets go with Backwoodsman and forget Presley in this thread, and our resident muffin (who misspelt Elvis by the way-take a look)can carry on worshiping him, while we return to the friendly discussion that we started, about singers of merit outside of the Folk Scene. It was quite interesting earlier on in this thread.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 02:08 PM

.. and before anyone jumps to the conclusion I'm dissing Steve Gibbons...

I bought his single "Tulane" and probably an LP or 2 back in the 70s...

The random live track I heard on streaming radio could be how he ended up sounding all the time back in the early 80s,
or, if I give him benefit of the doubt, a self aware parody for just that song
of English singers puttting on an exagerated yank rock n roll voice...

Whatever.. it still sounds cack nearly 40 years later...


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 02:14 PM

just postd this in the zombie thread on Elvis down in BS...

Maybe someone else can remember, there is one specific black singer Elvis loved and studiously copied...

I bought a box set of his CDs a year or 2 ago, but buggered if I can recall his name,
or where that box set is...?????


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 02:18 PM

Nick Dow said "It was quite interesting earlier on in this thread."
Is that before you started displaying your musical ignorance?
I only ever bought one Elvis recording ( Lovin' You" 10nch Lp 1957) And, I don't worshp him. But, I know a great rock singer when I hear one ( which is something you clearly can't do).
I also don't worship John Coltrane but it someone came on this forum and said that John Coltrane was a poor player who couldn't play in tune, then I'd have to take issue with that.
This whole matter could come down to ignorance... of not having a proper perspective of rock music and its history, its development, and its most important and influential figures.
John Lennon once said that " before Elvis there was nothing". Well, that statement certainly needs some - a lot - of clarification.
   But, to be fair to John, when Elvis first broke on to the UK scene in 1956, it was mind-blowing, and you had to be there to experience the sensation. ( and, again, all we knew of Elvis was THE VOICE)
UK teenagers had been fed a diet of middle-of-the-road pop by the BBC, and few youngsters had hardly any knowledge of the US's great black performers...apart from a few, like the very smooth Nat King Cole.
   But, one of the reasons that Elvis was such a good singer - apart, from all accounts - of having a fantastic "ear" - was that he had such eclectic listening habits.
   It's taken for granted that he listened to all the great blues and country singers, but he was also a huge fan of opera singer Mario Lanza and smooth crooner Dean Martin.
    This huge diverse listening experience produced a terrific, flexible, and original singer.
    When Elvis first visited Sun records in 1953, he was asked who - as a singer - he sounded like. Elvis, reputedly, replied " I don't sound like nobody". A double negative? Yes! But oh so true.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 02:42 PM

The vast majority of us don't disagree with any of that. Your over-righteous outrage is misplaced and completely unnecessary.

This is the Music Section, where adults are supposed to discuss and debate musical matters in good heart. For the love of god, let's not go back to the days of Ruth Archer, Countess Richard, Lizzie Cornish, and their venomous pitched-battles.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 02:55 PM

Well, Otis Blackwell's name pops up a lot when talking of singers who influenced Elvis.
Otis really should be more well known. He wrote the following hits for Elvis: All Shook Up, Paralysed, Don't Be Cruel, Return To Sender. And, he also wrote "Great Balls Of Fire" and "Breathless" for Jerry Lee Lewis, AND the wonderful "(You Give Me )Fever" for Little Willie John (and, of couse, the song was famously covered by Peggy Lee)
   Lots of Elvis's critics say that Elvis merely copied Otis's song demo - including vocal styling - when he ( Elvis) made his famous versions. But, again I would say Elvis's vocals are more interesting, more dynamic, than Otis's take on the songs.
The trouble with saying that Elvis ripped off black performers is that Elvis most definitely put his stamp on his "cover" version and certainly didn't copy the original. A good example of that is Carl Perkins "Blue Suede Shoes". Now, I know Carl isn't black, but the same thing applies. Elvis took Carl's song and made it more dynamic. Not, better, you understand, just very different.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:08 PM

When I mentioned Cass Elliot (ages ago) I should also have mentioned Denny Docherty. He was a great singer in his day. Trying to bring it slightly more up to date, I like Duffy, and will always listen to Paloma Faith. My Grandson even bought me her last CD. The track Guilty shows her full vocal range. The younger generation (Folk or otherwise) seem genetically programmed to take up where we left off. (That's especially true with IT by the way) so I for one am quite optimistic for the future when it comes to singing in all styles.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:16 PM

Last week I made an effort to seek out music by one great singer, and one pretty good 2 hit wonder...

Colin Blunstone and Brian Protheroe...

The 1970s string arrangements on some of CBs songs are sublime...

btw.. the singer Elvis was directly 'influenced by' - Roy Hamilton...


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:25 PM

Denny is one of those singers whose voice is so well know ( think "California Dreamin") but whose name is pretty obscure, I would think.
John Phillips had a knack of finding good singers. Scott McKenzie ( who had a huge hit with John Phillip's compostion "If You're Going to San Francisco") is another very talented singer who John promoted.
I loved Scott's first album. Great song choice. Great arrangements.
BTW, Scott performed with a later version of "The Mamas and the Papas"


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:28 PM

Elvis also recorded Bill Monroes great song ' Blue Moon of Kentucky ' Elvis met Bill backstage at The Grand Old Opry and apologised to Mr Monroe for what he'd done to the song [ he speeded it up ] Bill said to him that it was OK if that was what suited him, a week later Bill and The Bluegrass Boys were singing Elvis's version.

Nowt wrong with Elvis.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:40 PM

I've got - somewhere- a great live version of Bill playing "Blue Moon of Kentucky" ( with the great Kenny Baker on fiddle) where they start off playing Bill's slow version and then - half-way through - kick into Elvis's speeded-up take.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:42 PM

Roger Whittaker was far better.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 03:58 PM

I'm pretty sure that Rog was a better whistler than Elvis or Rick BUT Ronnie Ronalde could eat him alive.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 05:28 PM

Denny Docherty never got over his un requited love affair with Michelle Phillips, and hit the booze, which harmed his voice. Cass Elliot never got over her love affair with Denny, but as we know never lost her talents right up to the end. In all of that crowd which included John Sebastian and Barry Maguire, I could never figure out what Michelle Philips offered vocally. I thought Barry Maguire was a terrible singer, but seemed a very nice man. For me, for pure vocal ability in that era the Mamas and the Papas still hold the record. Michelle was replaced briefly and the band said they just did not have the right sound, so she must have had something. I'm not sure we've seen anything to beat them in that style of performance, however I'm open to suggestions and will look forward to listening.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 06:09 PM

One of the first LPs I ever owned when I became a teenager in 1971/2,
was a cheap reissue of the Mugwumps... [why - I haven't a clue...???]


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 07:41 PM

Well you've got Cass Elliot, and Denny Docherty on vocals and Zal Yanovsky's guitar playing so not a bad buy I think. Take a listen to Creeque Alley for the story of the whole era in song. Sebastian and Yanovsky ended up hating each other in the Spoonful, for some of the same musical differences we have seen argued out in this thread. Happy Days.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 08:33 PM

The Mamas and Papas were sublime, but a few of their best recorded songs were ruined by poor sound and badly out-of-tune backing music. California Dreamin' was an egregious example but was not the only one by a long chalk.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 18 - 08:33 PM

During the punk years I found a reissue of Zal Yanovsky's "Alive and Well in Argentina" LP in a record shop sale...

It was bonkers enough to fit in well with the anarchic mood of cultural upheaval
a lot of us late 1970s teens were making the most of...

I was also by then a fairly well informed Loving Spoonful fan,
and knew why Zal wasn't the most popular bloke...


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:35 AM

Evidently McGuire was the first California Dreamin' vocalist. I can see why he was replaced. You are right about the sound by the way. I found out recently that Burl Ives was John Sebastian's Godfather.
We've come a long way from Rick Astley haven't we? Sorry Dave! It's mostly my fault seeking the best of singers in popular music.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:37 AM

For pure quality of voice you have got to go a long way to beat Judith Durham. In my opinion of course. Make singer? Surprised there has been no mention of the big O yet. But in bringing up Rick I was never suggesting he was one of the greats. Just that I am enjoying his new stuff and, in particular, the song I linked.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:42 AM

Make singers=Male singers.

Damn you autocorrect!


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 08:39 AM

Documentaries occasionally give a glimpse into the multitrack tapes of classic recordings.

It's not unusual for the singer's track, when heard solo in isolation away from the instruments,
to sound cack...

But mixed into the full song, it sounds perfect for the arrangement and audio mix...

I have a high tolerance for singers who aren't very good,
depending on how much I enjoy the 'feel' of a recording of a song and performance...

Perfection can be emotionally sterile...


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 09:09 AM

Good point. I suppose it depends on sincerity, If they believe it so will you. There is an awful lot of play acting sincerity in popular music.


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Subject: RE: Rick Astley anyone?
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:00 PM

All these years, over here in the US,
I didn't notice that Rick Astley was from the UK, even.

I can see how his hit songs would polarize listeners.
Then, as now, I couldn't object to
his solid performances and easily comprehended diction.

Ought to look at his newer stuff.


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