De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life 2019 - 2020

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 06:35 PM

We spent some time out in the warm sun/freezing wind today shoring up fencing battered by the winter winds.... One year, a whole panel blew right off and this year another almost went airborne before Greg caught it with a tarp strap.

There's also a gap between two panels that has been encouraging a weed tree who's parent plant I spent 3 years eradicating. Sunshine streams through the gap and the tree suckers respond by reaching back through the gap to wave at traffic. So I determined that we would add a board to cover the gap.

Of course as soon as we started reinforcing panels with lag screws, we spotted every shortcut the sellers had taken when they installed it, and more spots to patch up.

Soon we had spotted several other gaps to cover, and that led to a really pretty effect: when we covered a corner gap with two boards butted tight, viola! A pretty corner "post" effect of new wood on top of dark gray weathered wood.

Now, the gaps between panels, covered, make a "look, they renovated" effect; we're adding one board for looks at each end, as well. They'll all weather together, or we may paint each new board white to coordinate with the house and garage's white siding.

Above each new board I'll add a plant hanger. Much prettier than a finial, and those puppies are pricey! If I have to spend money, better it should flower. And now that well be here full time to water things, it's time for hanging baskets under the eaves, in front.

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 11:16 AM

Old decaying projects and new projects I will never do along with carving wood slabs in the backyard was removed yesterday by two gents from Zimbabwe. It only took two heaping dump truck loads!
The only thing I'll miss was a church display sign with a door to keep the lettering crisp that I repurposed for the celebration of diversity with humorous differently named tree leaves. The apparent age of the sign said more about the fading respect for diversity than the subject itself.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 11:25 AM

I already tried the shoring up method for fencing. Its time for new wood fencing but this time the outside will be painted with linseed oil and WD 40. A spray system will make it an easy job. with a mask of course.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 11:50 AM

Don, last autumn I used something like this Olympic wood sealer on my fence pickets. On my brother's advice I stacked the pickets on a tarp in the garage and with a paint brush I painted each side of the stack, along with the bottom and top, then spread them out on that tarp and painted the top side. After a day of drying I turned them over and painted the other side. This way the sealant is on all sides and edges before they're put up. If you wait till the fence is up you'll never get between the slats or the bottom or top.

I did two panels (8' lengths between the posts) and have one more to do on that side of the house. Then I'll start working on the other side, where I have a street-facing panel to replace and five or six facing the other neighbor. They help with the cost of replacing the fence the first time I did it, but the next time I'll pay for it and do it in stages. (Though once they see me working I won't be surprised if they offer again, they're very nice people. On the other side, that neighbor paid for all of the fence between us, though I had offered to share.) I'm very lucky with my neighbors.

My to-do list is getting longer, I must do something today to cross off a few chores. Not just to finish the chores, but to feel good about accomplishing something today.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 02:31 PM

Dupont:

The sumps are in "New" house; as snow melts, water goes into basement - from below, I think. Even though we are high and would not expect this. I suspect there is not adequate something or other on the outside of this 120 year old house. But the sumps work adequately. I had a similar problem in PA. The house was on the side of a hill and water would come into the basement on its way down to the stream below - a stream that would expand from a few feet wide to about 30-40 feet wide in the spring. The first time it happened, there was a place for a pump but no pump! At 10 pm, I was using a shop vac to suck up water, then lifting it up and pouring the water into the utility sink. I phoned my bro and he went out and got a pump from his plumber friends, brought it over and installed it. A VERY GOOD brother!

Here all is working as expected. No problem as long as the electric is working! And it is. Hearing the pumps going off and on is comforting! Something is working!

First thing this am, I came up, out loud, with "The Unfinished Life" as a possible title for a book. The fact that R Almost installed the washer and Almost installed the dryer was the topic that followed my comment. I suggested that this is frustrating because the bathtub is full of laundry so.... And his filthy jacket could be washed so I could stop telling him to put it on the floor - not on anything fabric what would then also be filthy...

Then I rec'd dissertation - already heard at least once - on why they were not finished. I did not shout... However, when I went upstairs later to see what he was doing - reading an article on people who itch!!!!!!!!!! which noted it would take 29 minutes reading time.... I may have shouted. There were noises of possible movement on this subject - meaningless. I have been making excuses for him because he is busy... The spring thaw has created all manner of problems, such as roof leaks , and there is machinery to be found and moved and shipped.... But if he has time to read ... Last night he read the Sat paper AND we went to a movie. Good! Now I want to be able to wash the clothes - before I run out!

So, here I am on the computer, again. A little of the time is useful stuff and the rest is filler. I have arranged to go on Tuesday to see if I can volunteer to help with English classes for adults. My need to do something useful!

Moving has come to a dead halt. And the people never showed on Friday.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 03:43 PM

Down time is important when one is working on a series of tasks, so I hope R is simply recharging his batteries with the reading (though you could tactfully point out that clean laundry leads to less itching!) Good luck with being able to wash laundry at home soon. It is a luxury!

This afternoon I completed an online training on Sexual Abuse Awareness Training that is required before doing many of the public activities at a place where I will be volunteering. It took me ages to get around to it, but thankfully the link was still good so they now know I took the course. It took about 2 hours and is very well developed. Depressing in the numbers they're talking about, but the message was clear and easy to understand.

It's 70^o out there this afternoon - I need to go work in the yard!

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 07:43 PM

Greg and I just mentally tiptoed thru the PA house's contents (by my visual memory tho I do have videos we'll check tmrw), and the garage, here, with sections lalbeled to receive cargo. A great and sobering exercise in What to Donate, as well as a teambuilding exercise. This will SO guide my packing! And minimize chaos on return to Ohio.


LOADING/UNLOADING PLAN

Unless otherwise specified for Van, Cruiser, or Trailer, items will be onboard the truck.


¤ Z far back center - open armoire
BR items not in van
Hallway items not in van


¤ X front center right inside door
Kitchen boxes


¤ F back corner bowman hse
Box springs
Camp chairs


¤ W
Fridge
Freezer
Maybe kitchen items if small in pantry


¤ L front corner Bowman hse
Giant cabinet


¤ A front corner Ridgebury side
Book boxes


¤ GR mid side, Bowman, and twds center of garage:
Workshop boxes
Shop vac


¤ Gl mid side, Ridgebury
Garden supply
Long handled tools
Hardware


¤ TRAILER
Deere
Weight bench and weights
Sm garage tools
Weed whacker
Leaf blower
Fuel cans
Compressor


¤ Van
BR
Hallway


¤ Cruiser (towed behind truck, on trailer)
Bike
Skis
Snowshoes
Vestments?

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 03:53 PM

Chipping away with the chisel gave me a surface area where I could finally just whale away at the thing with the 2-pound sledge and dislodge large chunks until it all dropped off. The post is now moved out of the way and I've almost finished excavating the base of the next post. I came in to get the camera to get photos around the yard and of this project, so am bothering to update in the middle of the project.

With each of these digging exercises I am moving the Invisible Fence wire out of the way to avoid tripping or cutting with a shovel. Soon I'll be able to make the shallow cut and poke it 3-4 inches underground. And be able to mow right up to the new fence. And once I finish replacing the last old fence panel I'm going to landscape that corner with something shade-loving. A fellow retiree from the library is a fabulous gardener (in both ways - a fabulous person with a fabulous garden!) recommends Hellebores, but I looked them up, they're toxic to dogs. So those would have to go in the shady part of the front yard. I could probably get some transplants from him, they seem to self-propagate nicely.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 04:29 PM

Dupont:

YAY for getting the post out of the way!

Back to the laundry: So I "sit all day doing nothing". Well... IF I thought I had made any progress... Lorna phoned and had a crisis; R fixed her crisis and I did nothing all day. This am my line was: "I want to be out of this neighbourhood by the first of April! I am sick of worrying about what side of the street my vehicle is on!" That seems to R to be a good idea... Stay tuned!

Today: decided the bed frame needs no more attention - other than being together - a two person job; used some cleaner on K cabinets and they look somewhat better. Went for Vit E oil. Two separate staff could not find it. Went to pharmacy dept and asked. She found it and informed two staff of its existence and location. Picked up a few groceries. Found a box that was meant to stay at Beaver. Walked around and found naught else I could accomplish. Here I sit. Still below freezing.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:06 PM

DP, April 1, go go go!

We're in Last Week chaos here. Helper Brandon took a day job and SAYS he'll be able to squeeze in those last projects to prep for our return, but... can't say when, due to work sked..... This has been happening with four years worth of young helpers, and while I always salute their gainful employment.... Oh Crap.

So this time is different because GREG IS HERE, so we sat down and made a plan. A great plan. And Judy is coming tmrw aftn to help play with dirt, prepping containers awaiting my return and taking four big bins of hers temporarily out of the garage, plus planning to water our house plants....

It always feels better to get up and DO stuff when this phase hits, so I refilled a bunch of kitchen canisters and filled a freezer container with stock/veggies to eat when we get back.

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:59 PM

Fingers crossed that you're out by April 1, Dorothy. No fooling around with that move!

The post I started digging today is shorter than the others by about two feet and is really deep - so deep that it isn't rocking out of the hole and too short to get as much leverage as the last one. I'm not going to try a dead lift out so I ran over to Home Depot and picked up a bagged length of about 1/2" dock line to use with a pulley. I'll wrap one end around the post I'm pulling out and the other end through a pulley attached to the next post over. I could use a carabiner and make a second pass on the first post in a block-and-tackle setup that would reduce even more the force needed to pull it out.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 08:53 PM

We put a post IN. Because all of the stockade fencing butts up to neighbors', and we've all agreed to tie into each others' on the next round of replacements, for now we're just reinforcing, on the cheap.

So we used a 36" post spike to sister in a pressure treated 4x4 we already had, where the idiot sellers used a mere landscape timber instead of good, pressure-treated 4x4 posts in concrete. The wind snaps these off from time to time, where the base is rotted, so one got sistered in, today with spike and lag screws.

Also we put up the corner shelf in the Library.

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 10:26 AM

New living room PC build has run a while. A bit of a niggle with sat tuner card (random crashes that seem to happen on “idle” but change of setting to keep the card on rather than having it released by the recording program when not needed may have fixed that) but otherwise OK. Still got Samba (share with Windows work groups) to set up some time. I'll try to keep to regular software updates with it this time as well as hope that like the last one it largely keeps running 24/7 without hassle.

I’ve got some bits including a small (say 1 ½ x 3/4”) Arduino board that should enable me to try to modify the solar pond pump, I think… Perhaps an electronics person could do it rather more simply but if I can program something to switch in response to an input (light level – light dependent resistor and a voltage divider is within my limits) change, I’m in with a chance. I’ll try it some day…

Junk has been one of the main things here. We’ve had someone in whose taken away a lot of stuff that had accumulated in a corner outside over several years. We’ve still got some plastic and electronic bits they couldn’t take to dispose of but things are much better.

Rats have been a bigger problem here than I realised. I’ve known for some time that the roof space hasn’t been particularly nice. A plumber did some work up there last year for the new boiler and the “rat man” has visited but somehow, the extent of the problem got missed. The “odd job” company (same as did the junk disposal) had to go up there for some reason and they took some photos from some parts. This triggered getting all the roof insulation stripped out and replaced. Fortunately, they said they saw no evidence of damage to the mains electric cables. We also think that all points of entry are sealed now but we’ve been there before...

The grass is growing faster than I want it to and the first cut of the season is overdue. Weather and a couple of other things have got got in the way of cutting but I’d like to think I can do some mowing later in the week. Gardening wise, I aslo want to get the propagator out and start some aubergine and tomato seeds growing.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 12:08 PM

Jon, you remind me that I have a vent on one corner of the house that is sagging from the soffit. I'll use a combination of adhesive and a new screw to stick it into place. The boards used under there are some kind of stranded fiber (but not so heavy as MDF) and don't respond well to simply having the old screw hole filled with a wood filler and re-drilled.

No report on the system to pull out the post, I haven't started that setup but will later today. This morning I've emptied all of the 4" pots that didn't grow anything last year when I started seeds - that soil will commingle with this year's homemade potting mix to start seeds now.

My to-do list is a full page with seasonal tasks now so I need to get moving.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM

Many pre-departure tasks done w Yano Becky's help; sad to be saying goodbye to my pretty wicker for now, but good to prep spaces for next-envisioned items coming all too soon.

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 03:22 PM

Dupont:

Went to my first English class as a volunteer. Not sure what I was meant to do as the teacher ran the whole show. Five women - russian, Venezuelan, Chinese, Quebecoise, Morrocan, and one man - unknown. The acoustics were so bad I understood little and wonder how much it helped the students but they seemed able to converse fairly effectively. They were proficient and highly intelligent generally. Word I have never heard or seen: "lapidated". I'll look it up shortly.

Then looked for Vit E oil; All the junk in pharmacies but not pure vitamin E oil. Will order on line. With last effort - one more pharmacy, I discovered a shopping mall; I have driven by many many times and had no idea it was there. Rather tatty looking but some decent stores behind the tatty facade! I actually found one that had a few items I may go back and try on in the morning- when I am not so tired. Most of my shopping is done in thrift shops but I have not been finding anything in a while and have a hankering for something a little different. Still not set up for sewing.

Beautiful day, just above freezing. The snow in back yard is down to about 12 inches! I am eyeing the yard for where to plant the 3 cherry trees, if they survived their winter in pots under a couple feet of snow!

R received a wedding invite from godson. Guess we will be going to a June wedding in or near Mystic, Connecticut. So much for my vow not to cross the border until ... The RSVP requests knowledge of "camping on family property?", "coming in van?" and "song request?" Logan was ship's carpenter on the Picton Castle for a few years and studied art in Halifax after that. Should be an interesting bunch of folks! Need to plan our end.

Otherwise doing nothing - but computer - nothing else to do.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 04:50 PM

A rope and pulley system works to lift weight, but there was way too much drag with that concrete footer so it didn't budge. I'm out $9.98 for a nice piece of rope that will work for other things, and I had everything else. A winch would have done it, but that's too much expense for this one task.

The post was at the corner and may have been anchored extra deep for that reason. The next one over is the one that will decide if I take the rest out on my own or have someone come do it. The others are taller, meaning they probably aren't sunk as deep.

I ended up using the chisel and hammer and knocking off the top 1/4 of the concrete footer while it was still in the hole, then bringing out a gardening weeding tool (looks like a big screwdriver with a wide pronged tip) to dig out the final part of the post. The bottom narrow end of the hole was filled with small bits of concrete and the larger cavity was filled with the large chunks and smaller pieces filling between them, and the top three inches is just soil. This got rid of all of the concrete chipped off so far.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 08:05 PM

Wonder Boy did indeed show up, and miracles were wrought. Judy came too, and so did Camryn from next door. Weather being perfect, everyone kicked butt including me with new superpowers thanks to recent rehab work. And then after supper Greg and I reassembled the bed.

The LR wicker loveseat I will miss was set in a perfect garage spot I'll see each time I enter the garage, and is handy for lawn parties.

Camryn has to say goodbye for 9 months due to a family situation, at which sobering news several of us cried.

Brandon has a last day before we go (Friday), and is set for weekly weeding. Son and DIL confirmed, amidst all this work today, that they are on board to help-- not on truck unloading day but 10 days later to unpack BOXES and help Greg set up his woodshop.

The updated list below has only a few easy items to finish Friday w Brandon. Tmrw we reward ourselves w a Cincy hockey game.


Sat. April 13 - 17 unloading days

Where is the fun for arrival day? Bike, scooter, stretch, or pool?

X Jim, Camryn and Brandon confirmed
X Brandon confirmed to check garage
X Judy confirmed to water plants

Arrive home, look around, leave immediately for lunch or Ramada to make plan

GOAL: Most furniture comes in same day unloaded, straight to destination (ideal) or sewing room

BOXES to garage, in letter-designated areas, except for a very few labeled 1st-open, and those can stack on sideboard. DON'T BLOCK SCOOTER PATH.


BEDROOM
X Bed delay
X Greg's cube to library
X Artwork up on walls
X Move drawers to closet
BR pinned and tieback plan made
X Mattress ready for us w pillows
Swap existing rugs re cutout
X My vestment space
Dowel Rods for curtains
X Cleaners bags hung


SEWING ROOM
X Painted & ready for furniture & boxes
X Painting done
X Brown curtain up
Kitchen curtains fit here?
X Repair outlet
X Add flat-plug extension cords on wallsadj BR
X Cut-out stained carpet goes to dog corner!!! 
X Finish service dog vest
X Discuss vestment space
Clear walls
Measure bookcase wall


HALLWAY
X Art under shelf? Kids' 3 portraits
Linen closet knobs


LIBRARY
X Room screen to garage for now
Clear DVR to be able to record hockey games while gone
X Extension cord for desk power
Mount desk strips
X Hang corner shelf
X FPH rough sort
Soundproof door with arrows
X Shelf base plan made
Add green recliner
Folding rocker to garage F corner, hung up


BATHROOM
X New toilet seat from garage
X Pockets on door?
X Fix art on door
Fix shower curtain rings
Caulk cabinet
Caulk tub
X Caulk tub overflow


LAUNDRY AREA
Neaten up laundry supplies; furniture may need to be wheeled to sewing room
X Measure for cabinet depth/height
X Relocate alarm panel
X Fill and put away laundry soap
X Fix pull rod again


LIVING ROOM
X Hart art up/designed
X Purge wicker coffee table,
X Purge wicker love seat
X Move lamp table
X Move wicker love seat
X Clear sideboard top
X Artwork up on walls
Clear table and remove vinyl cloth (repair, make clear cover, roll both)
Polish table
X Clear boxes around table
X Remove chair covers
Remove green recliner to library
Relocate autoharp and stand? May go by jelly cabinet or inside TV cabinet
Collapse tension rod for windowsill
X Boxes by sideboard


KITCHEN
Essential unpack-first boxes will go to sideboard (room divider of boxes up to ceiling if necessary)
X Clear out window box w Becky
Stands for plates


DOCTOR VISITS:
X Glasses
X Dentist
Pap - busy w Y, do later
Mammo - busy w Y, do later
Greg Doc appt


SHOPPING
Meds refilled - inventory
X Newbie meds
X Soups waiting
X Contractors’ bags
X Power bars waiting
X Burgers waiting
X Bread waiting
X Meal waiting


GARAGE
X Corners marked
X Boxed decor in garage cleaned and boxed in plastic
X Garage ready and labeled
X Plan for Deere and blower - DON'T BLOCK SCOOTER PATH
X Chairs out into patio
X Decide about picking stools
X Mike or Dave ready
X Stove gone
Lock up kayak
X Box spring gone
X Judy bins temp out


PATIO
X Patio cleaned up, pots out w rock/soil
X Dog fence raised
Xx Get rock and soil, cover w mulch/plastic


YARDS
X Sewer dig neatened up
X Wicker stowed
X Brandon set to weed beds
X Move camper and reblock? Maybe later, and use black tarp then to retard weeds.
X Plan for fences and gates
X Board for weed gap


TRAVEL
X Car player loaded
Van cleaned out


PA SHOPLIST
Surplus City foam and tarps

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 05:07 PM

Dupont:

this am helped R find clean clothes for important meeting. "I can't find my good red shirt..." "It's probably in the laundry." He put on a too tight shirt which E bought him ($90.00!!! for a too tight denim dress shirt) when they were going to a meeting last week and R had on a dirty shirt - the collar was... E had insisted they could not go to the meeting like that! YAY, Ephraim! Maybe this week - washing machine?

As for R reading: I do not generally complain as I realize it is important but there are times when something really needs to be done. In the last two weeks we have gone to one movie and met the couple from NB with whom we conversed rather than go to a movie, been to the cafes for music four times and had a couple meals out. But no washing machine.

Now that snow is leaving-!!!!!- perhaps we can get to the mill for the frig and other stuff. Perhaps even move some furniture - that which is not vital to the showing of the house. He is in no hurry to sell; it is more important to get the price he wants. I want the new house furnished with THAT furniture. Not going to happen. Spring is house selling time: "please sell, House!"

All I want is to be living in one place. So today I did a bit more exploring of shops. I did try on the things I saw the other day - felt like a blimp. Oh well.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 11:56 AM

Mowed the back yard and walked the dogs yesterday and my scale still shows me gaining incrementally. It's time to seriously adopt the alternate day fasting routine. No point in doing it much in cold weather, your brain works against you then, but now it's nice out most days and getting much warmer for the next six months before it cools off again.

I picked up my office glasses, having the new lenses (covered by insurance) replace the existing lenses in frames I used several years ago. I looked at insurance premiums; there's no point in dropping this, it's pretty low and it covers my annual vision exam. But I won't be buying many new pairs of glasses through my optometrist with insurance - they gouge horribly. I'll simply replace lenses in existing frames.

This afternoon is one of my shopping and reference runs. My current lawnmower is 17 years old (built to last about 10) and has a couple of problems that make it mechanically difficult to use. I need to check with my mower repair guy to find out which brands being made today are the ones he would consider buying himself. I printed out the last two-years mower articles in the Consumer Reports Buying Guide for reference. My next-door neighbor has a self-propelled mower I've borrowed once when mine was in the shop and it weighs a ton. I don't need all of that extra hardware and I see by the ratings that self-propelled comes in various flavors, so I'll ask about that. Or if my mower guy could replace or restore the part of the mower frame that is so dented from long use, I wouldn't need to shop for a new one at all.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 12:39 PM

SRS, firstly #I'll just make the comment a previous post of your had me looking up how to do pulleys. I can be practical on some things and less so on others...

On mowers, we have 2 now. One is a fairly heavy self propelled (Toro which I believe is a popular American make). It's a bit of a pain to get in and out of the shed as I need full height to clear a step and go to lowest to park it but otherwise is pretty good. The task now is to keep what is really a farm track (but includes that bit of "lawn" on the land we rent) clear. A few hundred yards but not that great a width. I do it in stages but am pretty well unaware of the weight of the machine (which responds to how fast you walk/ press on the bar) going in a straight line and overall, with a 55cm cut,I'd think gets the job done with minimal passes. It also mulches the grass pretty well.

The other is a (Ryobi) battery one, for some places where the big one is just too wide and bulky. It has its limitations in that it does not like wet grass or the grass being too long so you want to keep on to of things when possible but I'd say it's as good as the old mains electric machine we used to have, without the hassle of a cable and would meet all our needs if we now didn't feel it a good idea to keep the (off our patch) rest of the path clear for log delivery and access to a septic tank. This around 12" cut thing is feather light.

I guess much would depend on the size of your garden and the terrain (and I don't think I could provide you with reasonable pointers) but I wonder have you looked into the battery ones?

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 08:24 PM

We started the day reviewing tasks yet to complete before Monday's departure, and sorting them into the remaining days. Brandon has a full worklist for tmrw aftn, including a re-fix of the bed we just fixed-- it's killing my back.

So the day's work focused on a few areas:


Picking up needed items at Lowe's and a dog Rx plus last groceries (eggs, yogurt). Then a long country drive with ice cream and a discovered church. Then back to the house to work.


BEDROOM
X BR curtains pinned and tieback plan made
Mattress ready for us w pillows (Friday)
X Dowel Rods for curtains


SEWING ROOM
X Kitchen curtains fit in here? Yes, perhaps set wider than desk.
X Window casing = 53" tall x 41.5
X Curtains = 79"
Clear walls and install ext cords (Saturday)
X Measure bookcase wall = 10'4"


HALLWAY
X Linen closet knobs
X Hallway hooks for hats


KITCHEN
X Stands for plates - inventory. Michael's in Bvrcreek carries these. Dave will put up the plates in late April. Decided-- display all. Plates set in empty K cabinet.

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 08:25 PM

Jon, I have a half-acre pie-shaped lot and a nine-month mowing season, so it needs to stand up to a lot of work - mowing most of the year and mulching leaves several times during the fall and winter. I've used an electric one when nothing else was available - dragging a cord over that much yard is a pain in the backside. My old mower is still working, but it's showing its age.

Lots of running today and I didn't finish everything, but I'm satisfied with a good start on my to-do list.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: mg
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 03:08 AM

My to do list... Find lunch spot in paris.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 09:26 AM

Sure, I think corded mowers are a pain in the arse, even on smaller areas. At one time before I took over and dad was more mobile, the pair of them would do the mowing together, really – dad just keeping the cable out of the way. I’ve also had to repair the cable in the past… Our little battery mower avoids all that hassle and, conveniently, uses the same battery as I use in my 2 (one hammer and one drill/driver) drills and a garden sprayer but it wouldn’t come close to meeting your needs.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 10:46 AM

MG, can't you detour to Ohio to help us move?

Horrible and pain-making foam layer now deleted from bed in clever trick-- I've scheduled my excellent DIL Jaclyn to help us repeat this in their April visit.

Problem: Remove, in replace-able form, eight layers of mattress padding to work on mattresses, box springs, frame.

Trick: We rolled them all up in one swell foop from the foot end of the king bed formed of 2 twins, left it rolled at the head, and (from the foot end) pulled out the king camping foam mattress causing the back problems. When we do this in April we will tie that roll at each end so the men can carefully carry it to the LR.

They will take apart the bed and lay the Oriental rug, place the headboards, nightstands, and lamps. They will add the box springs and mattresses to the raised frames and bring back the roll of mattress padding. Greg and I will remake the bed. Jaclyn and I will work on curtains while the men play with the heavy stuff, and add the pretty pillows at the end.

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 12:22 PM

Dupont:

Yesterday: fetched some tween season clothes from the mill; stopped at a garage to have noise in car checked, "no noise"; lunch with Geri and back here - noise disturbing me more and more but sporadic; went to great music and to city to sleep - "Be nice when we can sleep here.." There was still considerable ice and snow around the mill; slightly challenging to walk from where I had to park to the door so one trip was all.

Today: good bf; drove to Toyota dealer and requested "check on noise"; wheel bearings in both front wheels, "very dangerous". I got a ride home while they replace right(worst) one; will have parts Monday for the other. I am beginning to feel as though I am rebuilding this car piece by piece but in between times, it runs beautifully. A large de-clutter of finances. Looked at the prices of new ones!!!!! HO, HO and HO!

Killing time while waiting for diagnosis, I went across the road to shop selling bath and kitchen fixtures- ugly bathtubs! No back slope; what is the point of a bathtub that is not comfortable?? The prices were educational!

So I sit here computering, having put clothes in closet, and happy to have worn, not a sweat shirt but a nice T and a silk shirt last night.

I can see grass around the edges of house and yard and some hosta peeking out.   Expecting snow tonight!

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 01:01 PM

DP, now that you know what bearing noise sounds like, next time you will be able to schedule that routine item in non-emergency mode.

As female friends and I have discussed so often, women's work (Proverbs 31) is seldom discussed or credited in the patriarchy, as WORK. So I'm making an effort to list it ALL during this period of no-Y, house-"work"outs:

. Jeans button re-replaced and jeans now fit comfortably, so now have a pair to wear and a pair to pack for moving time-- VERY few duds are left in PA...
. Old, beloved sewing box found at last, recently, sorted out; newer crap box ditto. Result: a good box I like of loved tools for the house, and a small zippered case of travel tools to add to car when we get back w furniture.
. Everlasting laundry going to fold later
. Twist pins for deferred April project set with project
. LR items stowed to make room for furniture coming
. April worklist started w names of best ppl to partner with on each
. LR table slowly clearing
. K table slowly clearing
. Caulking job decided and streamlined
. Two hygiene brushes encased in custom cases created today
. Untaken giveaway items tossed

~Susan

All while on standby to pick up the paid male helper sked for later in the day.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 04:56 PM

I couldn't find the sidewalk chalk I'd bought to mark out the garage sections, but when I bemoaned that fact Brandon said he'd actually found some in a recent garage cleanout here, so viola!

DONE:
X Flashing Repair
X Move green recliner to Library
X Hang rocker and 1 director chair
X Sweep garage
X Mark scooter path and lettered sections
X Gather items to fill and mulch out patio pots while we're gone
X Move parrot cage planter to patio
X Modify folding chairs w foam, pack and hang up church pillow duffel
X Mount two outlet strips, ofc
X Set out and discuss mosquito dunks to stay ahead of mosquito breeding

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 10:35 AM

Lots of running yesterday afternoon, including the trip over to the little converted ancient gas station (you know the look - the small concrete building with bay doors, a covered portico where the pumps once stood, situated on a convenient corner) where my guy who repairs mowers, trimmers, and probably other small engines has his business. I had printouts with me, and asked if he could tell me what were the manufacturers he liked best, when he sees them come through his shop. He was pleased to answer questions and see the consumer reviews - when you ask someone about the thing they do and the work they love, it isn't an imposition. He had a couple of customers come in while we were talking and I stepped aside and announced "you have a real customer" so the newcomer wouldn't feel like they had to wait for me to finish. It was very helpful, and he walked me out to the shop where various models are stored and showed me things he things one should look for (does the handle part attached to the mower and platform part wobble when you try to lift one side and then the other? Front wheel vs rear wheel drive (he likes rear wheel drive better)? Steel or plastic platform? Surprisingly, the Honda plastic is very durable (more than 20 years) and makes less noise than a steel casing.)

Good to know!

I think, when I do finally get the new mower, that I'll take the old mower over to him. I'm willing to bet he occasionally has moms come in looking for a mower they can afford - he sells used machines, he sold one while I was talking to him. He's one of those christian folks who isn't obnoxious about it but seems to have a charitable streak a mile wide that he ties to his religious beliefs. So if he has a mower that works and he will tune up and offer for a small amount for that kind of customer, he'll do it. I'm willing to support that kind of enterprise. If I take it to Goodwill it might be a problem because of the fumes if it's indoors.

Kitchen cleaned last night, a load of laundry done, and a bonus (discovered when the laundry was put into the dryer - "clonk!" "Clonk!") my pocketknife got washed. It's now drying completely on my dresser top.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 12:36 PM

Dupont:

Waiting, sort of, with some hope, for R to arrive and connect the washer so I can wash clothes. Hoping he can also ensure dryer is correctly installed. There must be 6 or more loads awaiting. It is a BIG machine, too big probably for our needs, but it sure is nice. I am assuming it will work because the home from which it came was highly organized in every way.

Picked up a good bit of a strong wall paper at a T.S. the other day. That is the best for lining shelves, I believe, so I was happy to get it. A piece of furniture for powder room arrived - more Louis Quatorze than Victorian! I asked for storage; this is suitable for against the back of a sofa - 3 tiny drawers and a large empty space for tall vases or some such. Looks good but only takes up space. Oh well! It can be replaced. Nice love seat for TV room also arrived.

Last night's snow amounted to nothing so there is hope that we can get frig et al from the mill this week.

R suggested we might also get the "sewing cabinet" upstairs (it is big!) and set up the TV on it. With the little bookcase to put things on, I could move computer to TV room and de-clutter the LR for its next incarnation. Ephraim is going to find me a cord to connect computer to TV as a larger monitor.

I enjoyed being part of the English conversation class this week and have it on calendar weekly. Thinking of going to Beaver on 2 April for 6 days to live that life and bring back a carload of stuff.

Slowly learning to use new phone. Now that there is no ice, I park further from stores to get some walking in. Today might be warm enough to walk down to the river - which is getting high. I heard, and saw, lots of Canada Geese Thursday! Wonderful!! Hmm, I'll try that walk now, while the SUN! is high.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 01:11 PM

We had a Honda over 20 years ago. It was always an easy starter and quiet runner compared to the more common Briggs and Stratton engines of that era (although current mower has a B&S engine and I think they’ve moved on). It coped well with the aprox ½ acre and in places quite sloping terrain it had to deal with. Mum gave it away when she moved here.

I don’t believe there was any requirement for mowing here then. I gather (I didn’t live here then) there was a little grass (and the Honda would have been too big) at the front but she had other plans for that area and renting a patch behind the house hadn’t even been thought of then. That only came about later when she was looking for an allotment and a conversation with the landowner for the field made a nice offer – sort of “if you want to clear this overgrown area we can’t use and maintain it, you can have the use of it for a nominal rent”. Things change...

It can be nice to have people like your mower man. I’d be less sure about the local place mum used to use. It strikes me as more of a place for new sales (including those big John Deere garden tractors) and service contracts than repairing older and cheaper equipment.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM

Well, I can't walk now.

Busy day here....

AM coffee and dayplan

Joint booking of Clarion motel for drive to PA

Joint folding of clean king bedding

Greg off errranding while I fold laundry mountain and sort out items to take

Top alcove drawer cleared of scarves and pretty scarves hung on alcove hooks and scarf hangers

Swim bag loaded for return use

Swim player set w packing items to use while away

Brief fone conference w Mary Kerr re checking PA house, and email re heat/water sent to landlord GF Teresa

Put away clean laundry

Whipped dishes

Chose travel toiletries and neatened up Library chairside area

Set up and distributed chairside water bottles

Sent neighbor texts re departure

Sent William confirmation for packing help to begin Thursday-- Greg to start Weds w trash trips from shed while I recover and plan.
Movie for tonight arrived with the mail. Van preloading done except for our stuff, fud, electronics.

Scootered the block w dog but battery dies now long before block is circled.


Saturday Pre-Packing:

Pack exercise player (evening)
Pack easy dry suit in pool bag (evening)
Pack puders, clothes, meds (evening)

X Load black foam mattress
X Fold and secure walker
X Load folding stool
X Pre-load tools
X Rural King: Roundup, sm dog fud
X Folding laundry
X Detrash van
X Post office hold mail
X Notify neighbors
X Confirm PA helpers
X Level parrot cage (tomato plant house)

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 04:10 PM

Dupont:

R arrived! So far, he has dithered around about other things, and I had to strongly refuse two wall pieces. We did agree on the several boxes and bags to go to TShops. The cabinet will not go upstairs until someone stronger comes to help; it appears to be fastened to the floor! The drawers have gone up. WE agreed for a spot, in the pantry, for a tool box but currently have only a changeable screwdriver and a wrench. The screwdriver lives in my car, generally; the only reason it is available. Two hours later, still dithering...

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 04:14 PM

Dupont:
When I say dithering, I mean fooling around with objects that have nothing to do with anything useful in the house - a light that was here and which I asked to be removed - OUT! But he had to take it apart and wash the filthy thing instead of doing the necessary job. I could have done two loads of laundry by now. Oh well.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 04:51 PM

Dupont:

Load one is washing!! YAY!!! Dryer is ready,too!

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 05:51 PM

While waiting for lunch guests to arrive I did a load of laundry (dog beds) and went into my zippered plastic sweater storage compartment that hangs from two hangers. A handful that I bought years ago but rarely wear are now in a bag in the donation bin. I need to be ruthless and remove a few more, but this was a start.

We had a leisurely lunch and spent the afternoon visiting, and thunderstorms threaten this evening. Looks like an eBay evening.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: LilyFestre
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 06:04 PM

Work: I planted some Marigold seeds and put them in the window outside my office. I also trimmed and dead-headed the plants that needed it. I changed out all the winter decor from my own office and window sill, added a plant and a hand carved Robin that I love. I now have two monitors on my desk, the CPU (not sure what else to call it) is about the size of a box of butter and that is new to my desk top space as well. I also have a new internet phone which is a bit more bulky than the last one. Given that I need to be home some afternoons for Jeremiah, working with children poses a problem as many of them need to be seen after school hours so I have requested that my caseload on children be reduced and the adult caseload increased. In that light, I have also requested that the responsibility of being the trainer for the Children's Program be passed on to someone else. I've been doing it for 2 years and it's time for someone else to lead that horse. My caseload is larger than it's ever been and last week I received a 5% raise. YAY ME!

Home: My yard continue to be MUD. MUD. And MORE MUD. Ugh. I am looking forward to the day when the ground firms up, there is grass to mow, temperatures are warmer and leaves on the trees! Daily chores are being kept up with...dishes, laundry, clear table, someone decent floors (I'm allowing slack on this because it's MUD season plus we heat with wood and pellets...both are creators of dust. Jeremiah is in charge of sweeping almost daily and does a decent job. I'm thankful for the help. I cleaned out the fridge last night and emptied all the various Rubbermaid containers, washed them all by hand (they don't come out clean from the dishwasher) and today I had some family time and some me time. We all got haircuts this morning, I got some highlights and then went on to get my nails done. I don't do that often but I sure do love having them painted an all pretty! We went to the bookstore and then out to a place we've been wanting to try for a long time for our lunch....It's called Curly's Chicken House. It's a down home, straight forward family restaurant...a bit run down but the food was great! I had friend chicken which I don't think I've had in years...surely I will be paying for it later tonight...it was worth it! While we were there a woman came over and started hugging me...I didn't know who it was until she took a few steps back....turns out it was a friend that I used to work with in the 1990s....she's retired now...sure was great to see her though!

I have a huge undertaking that I'm hoping to get at least halfway done tomorrow. I have made the decision that I am going to get rid of 95% of the clothes that I don't wear or that don't fit. I'm keeping a few special pieces but the other stuff...all 8 sizes of it all is going to be GONE. I'm feeling ruthless and tomorrow is the day!   I might start tonight...we shall see.

I am headed to a college reunion in May and recently purchased some new clothes that I feel good in...including SHOES!!! Normally, I might get one or two pairs of new shoes per year and sometimes not even that. I recently picked up FOUR pairs...one new set of cute kick abouts, sandals and two pairs of Espadrille sandals, one black and the others are a sassy hot pink....*GRIN*....love it!

Oh...also taking my car into the shop for a tune up so I have no worries on my drive to Vermont for the reunion.   I have rented a cottage for myself a very close girlfriend who actually is the reason that I met Pete....I can't wait to see her...it's been *GASP* over 25 years!!!!

Michelle

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 10:51 AM

Like during vacay time, a retired priest gets to skip an occasional Sunday morning church service. I'm so glad we both went back to sleep this morning!

It's forecast to be warm enough overnight to load the tech/meds box TODAY, and it's ready to top off with meds.


~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 12:19 PM

Tech/meds box full and loading as the innocuous BANKERS BOX (the only one onboard).

Found two neutral beige curtains when we took apart doggie dust sheets, to replace current see-thru hallway privacy curtains, to hang later or tmrw.

Ydy, I got my mother's pretty antique dresser sorted and restored to a pretty, welcome-home state-- the overflowing top drawer's scarves hung on display hooks to grab as needed, and messy top shelf items stowed in the nearly empty drawer. Adding the full length curtain to replace the half-curtain will make for a real dressing space. I'll post pix when the pretty PA boudoir lamp is added and the candelabra sconces get their tapers.

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 12:25 PM

Susan – your next trip to Pennsylvania is a week away? And this is the final trip as far as emptying that house and moving contents? Big job!

Michelle, for the first 16 years I worked in the library I was in an upper floor with north facing windows and I didn't keep plants, but co-workers kept their plants in my window. As long as the fruit flies (or fungus gnats) were kept under control we were all fine. It was nice to have a smallish-jungle in the cubicle.

I'm washing dog beds this weekend; Poppy may be over the bladder infection but the incontinence is back and I'm going to have to address that this week. It isn't enough to take her out at bedtime any more. I'm going to have to set up a place on the tile floor where she sleeps on beds in an enclosure so she doesn't leave spots of piddle. I'll be steam-cleaning carpets this week. Most of the house is tile floors, but there are a couple of carpets. This project bumps a few others down the list.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 03:11 PM

SRS, we leave tomorrow morning!

Privacy curtains are up. Food bags are loaded.

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 05:33 PM

Kitchen cleaned
DW loaded to run overnight
Laundry going
Towels changed

~Susan

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 06:26 PM

Dupont:

Laundry continues; washer and dryer running and I have lost count - 4 of each maybe, and more to go. R even fetched a different jacket so I could wash the incredibly filthy one! Picked up another swivel rocker for the TV room today (T.S.). R repaired the cabinet door he, inadvertently, broke yesterday. He has been exploring the cellar to see what useful pieces have been left behind while I wash stuff left behind and put some in trash and some in T.S. bags. We picked up a nice set of drapes (T.S.) for across the laundry area. Perfect for the current colours of the room. Can be used elsewhere if it changes. Good heavy fabric with ferny print in shades of green only. Might even work to "black out" BR.

Great Laundry area and equipment - after one reads the directions!

Email from neighbour Larry that Beaver is getting wet indoors. He has done what he could and I asked him to consult with Dan if any more needs to be done; L is better at texting than I and Dan prefers texts. When we have someone as wonderful as Dan, it is important to keep him happy! I owe Larry big time. Great neighbour!

Good neighbour here kept drive cleared all winter and when R drives in with Truck and stuff, M comes running to help, if home.

Bed construct will be along any day now! Frig to follow when weather cooperates. Yesterday, R dug out enough of the back deck that we could open the back door and appreciate the woods. I am happier to have a front door AND a back door.

Guess I shall not complain about R enjoying his explorations.

Safe travels, Susan!

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 07:59 PM

Thanks, DP!

Our plan is to get home to Ohio with furniture and boxes, April 13. I'll be posting on slow Wi-Fi while we're in PA packing.

Our first helper, William, will come Thursday afternoon and I've never worked with him. I expect brawn and humor, but don't know yet how he is on nonverbal partnering. I anticipate making a tentative plan of attack Wednesday and revising it after working with him Thursday.

A lot will depend how my back holds uo and how well we sleep on a makeshift bed.

But the real challenge of it hit us today: we've developed a wonderful rhythm here of working hard every other day and doing fun, silly stuff on the days between. And there's just not the fun there that is so plentiful here. Add to that the reality of being public figures again, and we've yet to figure out how to make space for US apart from the project of moving. My physical limitations complicate that. But we'll talk more about it in the van tomorrow.

~S~

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 09:27 PM

Last night I compared the mowers and prices reviewed by Consumer Reports – Honda gets the highest rating, Toro ranked second. Toro costs less than half of the Honda, because it doesn't have some of the fancy features but is still robust construction. The thing about Honda is that they don't seem to produce any lower-end models, so I can't really compare the companies. I may decide on that pretty soon.

I took a vitex limb out in the back yard today, it's the one that was growing into the power and cable lines in my back yard. It was just enough to completely fill a large trashcan when cut up. I have several more, but if I do them like this I don't have to fool with a pile of brush sitting around.

There is dog bedding drying now (I didn't do as much laundry as Dorothy, but it was critical!) and I tossed a large bed. I hadn't thought when I bought it but they all need to be washed sometime and that one wouldn't even have fit a commercial washer. I'll keep the outer case and put rag-type dog bedding I used to use in the garage in it. All of that can come out for laundry.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Mar 19 - 12:12 AM

I guess that markets vary a fair bit. Looking around UK wise now, Honda do offer a straightforward 16” cut push model. Fwiw, we have the Toro 20958 which, at current prices, I can find for £560. I think the closest in Honda would be the Honda 536 VY which I can find for £720.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Mar 19 - 01:32 PM

I'm looking at 21" or 22" inch blade - there are wider double-blade mowers but they're way out of my budget.

Wonderful thunderstorm overnight and we got the rain part (other portions of the region got the tennis-ball-sized hail). In a couple of days the garden will be just dry enough to work on.

I need to make a run to Goodwill, and before that I'll take one more tour of my sweater cabinet. I'm feeling ruthless about removing sweaters I rarely wear, even if they are the right size.

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Mar 19 - 01:52 PM

And ours. The Toro we got was right on our limit, perhaps a fraction over. Besides that, I'd not get anything bigger in the shed. In inches, our Toro has a 21.7" cut and the Honda as a comparison, 20.9".

Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness: House, job, life - 2019
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Mar 19 - 02:03 PM

(Also, wimp or otherwise, I think 22" is as large as I'd want to handle here)