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Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?

DigiTrad:
FLOWER OF SCOTLAND
THE FLOWER OF SCOTLAND


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GUEST,Miranda 07 Jan 19 - 09:30 AM
Tattie Bogle 08 Jan 19 - 05:55 PM
Johnny J 08 Jan 19 - 06:09 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jan 19 - 04:38 AM
Vic Smith 09 Jan 19 - 07:41 AM
Dave Hanson 09 Jan 19 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 09 Jan 19 - 07:55 AM
Vic Smith 09 Jan 19 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,Observer 09 Jan 19 - 08:33 AM
Vic Smith 09 Jan 19 - 11:40 AM
Tattie Bogle 09 Jan 19 - 12:27 PM
GUEST,Kenny 09 Jan 19 - 01:09 PM
Tattie Bogle 09 Jan 19 - 07:12 PM
GUEST,kenny 10 Jan 19 - 04:43 AM
Ged Fox 10 Jan 19 - 04:52 AM
JMB 10 Jan 19 - 07:08 PM
GUEST 10 Jan 19 - 09:41 PM
GUEST,Miranda 11 Jan 19 - 09:01 AM
Tattie Bogle 11 Jan 19 - 07:13 PM
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Subject: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: GUEST,Miranda
Date: 07 Jan 19 - 09:30 AM

So the vote for which one everyone likes best is usually between Ronnie Browne (solo), The Corries (duo), Amy MacDonald, and the Red Hot Chilli Peppers along with a few more singers. But mostly the ones who sang before a rugby game.

Personally I prefer the original cover with Roy Williamson because he wrote it but then I guess that's just my thing.

I do think Ronnie sang it for Roy before one particular match as it sounds like he's trying not to cry so he can finish the song, though he does also sound very patriotic and it's a nice bittersweet but proud song.

Amy MacDonald is obviously younger and has a booming voice, smooth voice with the patriotic air. She isn't emotional like Ronnie (he did suffer Roy's loss), and she does put a lot of fire into her rendition.

And then there are the other covers. But which one does Mudcat like best?


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Jan 19 - 05:55 PM

I like the Corries' original version as it is quite gentle and reflective, not like some of the tuneless and rather aggressive renditions you can get around sporting events. I believe Ronnie Browne said he would not sing it again at the Scottish Rugby Internationals. after the time you mentioned, Miranda, as he found it too emotional.
The usual scenario now at rugby internationals at Murrayfield is that the pipe band of the day will play the first verse, with people singing along, but then they cut out for the next verse (actually the last verse as they miss out the middle one) and the crowd sing that last verse a cappella. That in itself is quite stirring. Maybe my favourite version.


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Johnny J
Date: 08 Jan 19 - 06:09 PM

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiyLuv3GSs4


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 04:38 AM

The others are very good but my vote would go to the Red Hot Chilli Pipers.


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 07:41 AM

My vote would go for none of them. To me it's a God-awful song reflecting the beligerant worst of the country I was born in.... and as for it being regarded as a national anthem as some people have suggested - what sort of country is it that only has one name, that of a hated enemy, mentioned in it?
I much prefer the song that Michael Marra called his 'alternative national anthem, Hermless.
However, if I were asked to name the song that makes me most proud of being Scots - born it would be Hamish Henderson's Freedom Come-All-Ye - this is an 1989 video of it sung by Dick Gaughan in 1989; less than perfect sound quality but a good interpretation of a great song.


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 07:46 AM

Dick Gaughan said The Freedom Come All Ye would be a better anthem for Scotland and I agree.

Flower Of Scotland is anti English.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 07:55 AM

"what sort of country is it that only has one name, that of a hated enemy, mentioned in it?"

I don't get that. Scotland is named in the very first line of the song and England isn't actually named in it. It is referred to yes in the proud Edward's army bit. I agree it is too backward looking but it does in fairness say those days (ie of conflict) are in the past and must remain in the past.

I like Freedom Come All Ye too but words are probably too obscure for the vast bulk of Scots for anthem purposes. I really like Scots Wha Hae but it is suffering from the same problem as FOS in that it looks back to days of conflict. Another option for an anthem would be "A Man's A Man" which although an old song is positive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hudNoXsUj0o


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 08:29 AM

OK Allan
I'll alter that to
"what sort of country is it that only has one named person, that of a hated enemy, mentioned in it?"

I do take your points about conflict and "in the past they must remain" and I think A Man's A Man would make an excellent National Anthem - it was, after all. written by the national bard. It is the positivity of that song and of Freedom Come All Ye and Marra's pawky humour which is so typically Scots that I admire, rather than a celebration of a battle fought 705 years ago about which hard historical facts are sketchy. The first written account dates from after all the particpants were dead.


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 08:33 AM

The suggestion of "Hermless" as a National Anthem for Scotland appeals to my sense of the ridiculous.

Imagine the scene - Six Nations Rugby Tournament - The sides are lined up:

At the Aviva Stadium in Dublin the "Soldiers Song" & "Ireland" are played for the Irish Team

At Twickenham "God Save The Queen" is played for England

In Cardiff "Land of My Fathers"

And through all that the Scots Team has to stand there and listen to:

Hermless

Hermless, hermless
There's never nae bother frae me
Ah go tae the library an' tak' oot a book
Then Ah come hame for ma tea

Wi' ma hand on ma heart and ma heart in ma mooth
With arms that could reach o'er the sea
Ma feet might be big but the insects are safe
They'll never get stood on by me

Hermless, hermless
There's never nae bother frae me
Ah go tae the library an' tak' oot a book
Then Ah come hame for ma tea

Ah save a' the coupons that comes wi' the soup
And when Ah have saved fifty-three
Ah put three in the drawer and send fifty away
And something gets posted tae me

Hermless, hermless
There's never nae bother frae me
Ah go tae the library an' tak' oot a book
Then Ah come hame for ma tea

There's one or twa pals that Ah ca' my chums
They're canny and meek as can be
There's Tam wi' his car, Big Ed wi' his stamps
And Big Lexie Gilmour and me

Hermless, hermless
There's never nae bother frae me
I go tae the library an' tak' oot a book
Then I come hame for ma tea

Hermless, hermless,
There's never nae bother frae me
Naeb'dy would notice if I wasnae there
And I didnae come hame for ma tea

Hermless, hermless
There's never nae bother frae me
I dae what I'm telt and I tidy my room
Then I come doon for ma tea

Hermless, hermless
There's never nae bother frae me
I jist hang aboot and inherit the earth
Then I come doon for ma tea

The Team and their supporters would be dead from embarrassment before they were a third of the way through it.

But just think of the howls of derision at the awards ceremony, as someone else previously pointed out, in the unlikely event that a Scottish Boxer won the Heavyweight Gold Medal at the Commonwealth Games - Priceless as the Ad used to say.

Nothing wrong with "Scotland The Brave".


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 11:40 AM

Whenever Michael played at our folk club in Lewes, there was always a very appreciative crowd who were tuned into his amazing way with words and his unique very special sense of humour. One time the word had gone round (without my knowing) and a lot of people turned up wearing football scarves and when it came to the immortal words of that chorus:-
Hermless, hermless
There's never nae bother frae me
Ah ging tae the library an' Ah tak' oot a book
Then Ah come hame for ma tea

the scarves were being waved above their heads as if they were on the terraces, It was magic! I was delighted. If you don't understand irony then you cannot fully appreciate Michael Marra. In my opinion he is the best Scots songwriter since Robert Burns.


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 12:27 PM

Hermless is a funny and ironic song, and Michael Marra was a great songwriter, but I think he was typically tongue in cheek when he suggested it as an anthem! Never a serious suggestion.
Freedom Come All Ye is also a great song, but it took me about 5 years to learn and understand all the words! Hamish himself was reported to have said that it could be an international anthem, rather than a national one. It is regularly used as the finishing song at TMSA gatherings (Traditional Music and Song Association of Scotland.)
Thanks for the link to the Corries, Johnny J, but not the version I was thinking of: I think it's accompanied by guitar, and quieter and gentler than the one you have shown. I agree it's a bit pointless singing it when we're playing the Welsh, Irish, French or Italians, and a bit militant when we're playing the English, but just answering the question the OP set!


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: GUEST,Kenny
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 01:09 PM

The first televised recording of the "Corries" singing "Flower of Scotland " was sung accompanied by a Greek bouzouki played by Roy Williamson. The last ?I heard, someone in ?Aberdeen had it. The clip certainly used to be up on "YouTube".
Michael Marra was never serious about "Hermless" being a national anthem - and he never sung "library". In Dundee they have a "lehbry". :)


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 07:12 PM

I think that is the clip that Johnny J put up 3rd item on this thread, Kenny! Looks and sounds like an older-type bouzouki onyhoo!

And yes, Dundee pronunciation is essential for "Hermless"!


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 10 Jan 19 - 04:43 AM

That's the very clip "TB" - I hadn't checked that out. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Ged Fox
Date: 10 Jan 19 - 04:52 AM

Vindaloooo Vindaloooo Vindaloo Vindaloo nah nah!


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: JMB
Date: 10 Jan 19 - 07:08 PM

Since we moved to the topic of best candidate for new anthem, I have mentioned before that Hearts of Olden Glory by Runrig in my mind is the best song to use as the anthem for Scotland.


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 19 - 09:41 PM

I first heard it by "Ryan's Fancy" on the CBC back in the 1970's. Dick Gaughan did say "Its a bonnie tune!, but jingoistic..."


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: GUEST,Miranda
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 09:01 AM

Hermless doesn't fit the air of a national anthem to me.

And Scotland the Brave is fine... It gets played a lot where I come from and I live the tune (better than our "national anthem" anyways: March of the Volunteers). Save for one thing: it's a whole octave and hard to sing for some people so despite the fact that it does sound very nice and iconic Scottish-y it is hard to sing.


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Subject: RE: Review: Flower of Scotland - which rendition?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 07:13 PM

Scotland the Brave, the song, is slightly different from the pipe tune: the latter does fall within the octave range, whereas the song goes two above during the second half. Played in G or A, it's singable for me, tho could never reach the high F# if in D!
Flower of Scotland also spans an octave from lowest note to highest, but that doesn't stop people from singing it!


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