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BS: Dog training

Thompson 08 Jan 19 - 03:57 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Jan 19 - 05:26 PM
Senoufou 08 Jan 19 - 05:43 PM
Thompson 09 Jan 19 - 09:35 AM
Stilly River Sage 09 Jan 19 - 11:23 AM
Mossback 09 Jan 19 - 11:45 AM
Senoufou 09 Jan 19 - 12:10 PM
wysiwyg 09 Jan 19 - 01:06 PM
Bonzo3legs 09 Jan 19 - 04:56 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Jan 19 - 09:35 PM
Backwoodsman 10 Jan 19 - 02:48 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jan 19 - 03:18 AM
Senoufou 10 Jan 19 - 04:24 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Jan 19 - 04:35 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 19 - 03:16 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jan 19 - 04:54 AM
G-Force 11 Jan 19 - 05:13 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 19 - 05:21 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 19 - 05:27 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 19 - 05:30 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jan 19 - 06:53 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 19 - 07:45 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jan 19 - 07:46 AM
G-Force 11 Jan 19 - 11:58 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jan 19 - 12:26 PM
peteaberdeen 11 Jan 19 - 03:08 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Jan 19 - 04:06 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Jan 19 - 04:07 PM
peteaberdeen 11 Jan 19 - 04:20 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Jan 19 - 04:22 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 19 - 05:40 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Jan 19 - 08:03 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 19 - 11:19 PM
Thompson 12 Jan 19 - 03:55 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Jan 19 - 02:16 PM
Stilly River Sage 13 Jan 19 - 02:25 PM
Thompson 13 Jan 19 - 11:11 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jan 19 - 02:47 AM
Thompson 14 Jan 19 - 05:44 AM
Thompson 14 Jan 19 - 05:44 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jan 19 - 07:11 AM
Senoufou 14 Jan 19 - 08:33 AM
Thompson 14 Jan 19 - 10:55 AM
Senoufou 14 Jan 19 - 11:20 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jan 19 - 11:46 AM

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Subject: BS: Dog training
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Jan 19 - 03:57 PM

Looking at a film by a woman who has trained her dog using commands from the Harry Potter books, I wonder has anyone any good dog training tips.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 19 - 05:26 PM

Cute.

I discovered the programs called Dog Whisperer by Cesar Millan in 2005 when a stray pitbull wandered up to my house and we mutually decided she should stay. Too many people had dire warnings about the breed, and then level-headed Millan made it clear that it's as much training the owner as it is training the dog. Take them for walks, be in control of the food, act like what you are - the pack leader. She was the smartest and best dog I've ever owned (we lost her to old age/cancer in December 2017.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jan 19 - 05:43 PM

I loved Cesar Millan's programmes. I think plenty of exercise and activity is essential, or dogs get bored, lonely and frustrated, then they misbehave.
A dog shouldn't be left alone while its owners are out at work all day.
Pitbulls are banned here in UK, but that's because stupid and cruel people had used them for fighting contests and they became savage and dangerous.

With any training, firmness, repetition, consistency and rewards are probably necessary.

I find that works with husbands too, hee hee :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 09:35 AM

Very sorry about your dog, Stilly. The only thing that heals that pain a little is the knowledge that you've done your very best for your dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 11:23 AM

Six months after losing Cinnamon I went to the city shelter and picked up the blue heeler mix, about 3-4 years old. I have another very old blue heeler mix - it is a decision you don't make lightly because they are smart, fast, and intense but extremely devoted to their humans and that's what I was looking for. She's also a good companion for the old Labrador retriever who hadn't given up play and fetch (he's about 10 now) but the old heeler doesn't play much these days. I'm working on behavior with the youngest one - she jumps and bounces off of people as she attempts to herd them to her wishes (think "feed me faster!" when I'm feeding all three - and they all have to wait until I put their bowls on the floor and then tell them the magic word - "eat!"). I learned this from Cesar. It's a great parlor trick and the dogs love it because when they do it right they get to eat. And they do it right every time. But having Pepper bouncing off of me in the process could cause a stumble, so I'm working on making her sit while I measure out food.

From the start she walked very well, beside me and with the other dogs, not pulling out in front, so I think in her past life someone worked with her. She is also passionate about fetching, making me wonder how she came to the low point of ending up at the city shelter? Lost or relinquished? She had puppies sometime in the last 12 months. She was at the shelter for a couple of months and managed not to lose her mind - I looked at the animals online the night before I went down and of those I met at the shelter, when we did the introductory walk to a small outside enclosure she was the only one who didn't pull on her leash, and when I sat down on a small wall, she was much more interested in getting to know me than sniffing around and other dogs in surrounding areas. She offered a polite kiss, and I wondered how many people did she meet who didn't choose her?

She goes ballistic when she hears the motor of the postal carrier's million-mile vehicle (it is as distinctive as the "ringing" tone that accompanied all Volkswagen beetles of a certain age - you know what's coming before you see it just by the noise it makes.) I'll leave dog treats by the door and make her sit instead of bark and race around out the back dog door and to bark at the side fence. The goal is, as always, to train her and not have her train me. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Mossback
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 11:45 AM

Pitbulls are banned here in UK, but that's because stupid and cruel people

Oh yes? Those same "cruel" and "stupid" people" - and especially their children - who have been mauled and/or killed by them, no doubt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 12:10 PM

I'm really a 'cat person' Mossback, but I have read the News. As you say, people have been attacked by pitbulls.

But have you watched any of Cesar Millan's programmes? He has several pitbulls, and also helps owners to train what he calls 'red zone' cases. The ones I've seen on TV became excellent pets (his own dogs, 'Daddy' and 'Junior' for example) but needed tons of energetic exercise and firm 'rules, boundaries and limitations'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 01:06 PM

I have trained two service dogs, with prompting from another svc dog owner that we can actually train our own. In both cases I watched to see what the dog was already prone to do and then rewarded that behavior while attaching a command word to it. From there I shaped the behavior, and there you have it. A friend who is a professional trainer aproved and is on standby in casearch anyone objects.

A key difference in my approach, I think, is the range of tones of voice (mine) and facial reactions (the dogs') that develop over time. They usually hear me requesting a help; they know that when I sound urgent it's urgent and that when I sound bossy I'm just putting that on for nervous observers. They know that when I point and speak a request at the same time, I'm being emphatic; the hand signals we develop together are complex.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 04:56 PM

It's been interesting to watch the behaviour of our retired racing greyhound "Dreamy" who has now been with us for nearly 12 weeks. Having been formerly used to strict racing kennels routine, it's been a slow journey to retrain her to a domestic routine - for the time that she's awake, because greyhounds sleep for England!!! In the house and garden she is beginning to have reasonable recall, but I keep her on a lead at all times on walks, until such time as we find an "enclosed field" where we can safely let her off the lead.

Sadly, on New Year's Eve she was scared shitless by mortar type fireworks from a near neighbour, and it took almost 4 days for her to get back to normal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 19 - 09:35 PM

My youngest pooch was shaking in fear for the hour or so the artillery was set off on New Year's midnight by the neighborhood hoodlums. (Fireworks are illegal in the city.)

The argument about how many of the pitty breeds maul people is not why this thread was started. And if you do any research, you'll learn that dogs of all breeds bite or maul people, but in practice only pitbull attacks are ever reported.

The city shelter here has two kennel buildings, with the most adoptable dogs in one building and the escape artists and the "red zone" dogs in the other, also up for adoption. Frankly, with all of the overcrowding and having to choose which individual dogs to put down for lack of space, I vote we get rid of the red zone dogs. Why? Because very few people can do what Cesar Millan can do with that type of dog, and I don't want the rocket-scientist [not] up the street to think he can bring home and reform a dangerous dog. I'd hazard a guess that most people who think they can do what Millan does over-estimate their abilities.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 19 - 02:48 AM

SRS is spot-on regarding dogs who bite/attack/maul. Any dog of any breed is capable of aggressive behaviour, and it is a mistake to think that certain breeds are 'safe' and others are 'dangerous'. All dogs have the potential to be 'dangerous', and responsible owners know this, understand their dogs, and take precautions (including appropriate training, and employing control methods) to prevent it happening.

The problem in the U.K. is that bull-breeds are especially powerful dogs and, if they do go into attack mode, they are extremely difficult to control and/or restrain, especially when their owners are afraid of their dogs, and attacks by bull-breeds are more likely to prove fatal than attacks by most other breeds. Add to that the fact that our press and media have conditioned the public to fear bull-breeds, and that dogs are extremely sensitive to fear and react adversely to other animals (including humans) that are fearful, and you have a toxic situation.

FWIW, the largest number of dog-bites reported in the U.K. are inflicted by Labradors. That may be because Labradors are our most numerous breed but, nonetheless, statistically you are far more likely to be bitten by a Lab than by a Staffie. A properly-raised and trained Staffie is no more likely - in my experience, it is possibly less likely - to bite or attack than any other dog. I comment specifically about Staffies, rather than Pitties, because the latter are a banned breed in the U.K. so, whilst I have experience with Staffies, I have none with Pitties.

FWIW, I do not share the enthusiasm of others on this thread for Milan's methods. Pushing, poking, flicking, slapping, and forcing a dog into an unnatural position in order to force it to 'submit' are unnecessary and, frankly, abhorrent. I've had three Staffies in my life, two dogs and one bitch, none were ever subjected to any form of physical ill-treatment. They were trained by methods involving kindness, fun, and reward, and were all gentle, obedient family dogs who never bit, or even threatened to bite, any other animal or person, and thirty years' experience with them has convinced me that a dog that chooses to accept and be subservient to its owner is far more reliable than one that is forced to be so. I'd recommend anyone taking on a new dog to study Victoria Stillwell's methods.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 19 - 03:18 AM

We'll probably be watching the Hollywood flop [99p deal off google] movie "Alpha" this weekend...

Possibly the best boy and his dog movie since "Max"...???

No spoilers please...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Jan 19 - 04:24 AM

I've heard that about Labradors too Bwdsm. And I wonder if it might be because they're a popular breed for people with young families, and the children might tease too much and provoke an attack?

I've also heard criticism of Millan's methods, and never having been a dog-owner, I'm not qualified to judge. Watching his programmes though, it just seems that he knows how to sort out problems.

And SRS is right, not everyone can do what he does (I believe there's a warning comes up at the beginning of his programmes that only professionals should attempt the activities he demonstrates.)

I like Victoria Stillwell, she does seem gentler.

Is it not so that, in UK, a dog which has shown viciousness and has bitten people has to be put down, and the Police take it away?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 19 - 04:35 AM

Not sure about that,Sen. I don't think a bite would necessarily result in a dog being put down, I think circumstances are taken into account. But unprovoked and serious attacks do often result in a dog being euthanised.

I do firmly believe that there are far too many people owning dogs who aren't suitable to be dog-owners and, sadly, it's the dog who suffers - often terminally - when owners' failures result in injuries or death for humans or other animals. Come to that, I think there are far, far too many dogs, but that's another discussion I think.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 03:16 AM

"there are far too many people owning dogs who aren't suitable to be dog-owners"

I'd also say the same for too many parents...

I'm sure more people are viciously attacked by other people than by dogs...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 04:54 AM

I was thinking more of dogs being ill-treated and mis-used, pfr. I don't give a rat's arse about the people - people can decide to own, or not own, a dog, and which dog to have. The dog has no choice, and has to put up with whatever hand fate has dealt it. When I see the dreadful neglect and abuse that some dogs suffer, and the number of perfectly healthy dogs going for re-homing, I despair.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: G-Force
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 05:13 AM

Well, I've never been viciously attacked by another person, but I was bitten by a dog, and no, the animal wasn't put down. The owner was taken to court and told to do this that and the other, all of which he ignored. I complained about this to the police, but no further effective action was taken. But I did get 1,500 quid compensation from the CICB and fortunately made a good recovery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 05:21 AM

Completely in agreement.. if me and the mrs ever get a dog, it'll be a rescue dog...

Neither of us have owned dogs since we were kids, and I miss having one around,
but realistlicaly we're neither up to the responsibility of caring for one....

At least not until she retires, and then it will be a very serious decision...

It'll most definitely not be an emotional whim, which is probably the cause of most pet dogs ending up unwanted...

Back in the 1980s my sister had the most beautiful border collie for training and dog obedience shows,
I loved visiting home and taking it for walks..
but my sister suffered mental health issues and just had it suddenly put down for no good reason,
when she was in one of her more irrational moods..
Sadly, our parents couldn't reason her out of it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 05:27 AM

"Well, I've never been viciously attacked by another person"

lucky you...

I've got a broken tooth and bent nose, souvenirs from growing up in a small provincial town...

Bet most blokes, and many women have similar experiences...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 05:30 AM

.. and I never got a penny for it..
the only time I called the police,
they couldn't give a monkeys about yet another petty violent incident in town at night...

Maybe I should have said a dog did it...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 06:53 AM

Three good post#, pfr - and like you, I've had a number of assaults by people, but never been bitten by a dog (other than accidentally in play-time with puppies and young dogs).

I do get tired of having to defend dogs - a dog isn't a human, it's a dog. It sees the world through a dog's eyes, it thinks like a dog and, unless properly trained and controlled, it will act like a dog, not like a human. Sadly, many humans seem unable to understand this simple fact, and fail to act accordingly around dogs (and I'm talking here about owners who fail to train their dogs properly, and take appropriate control measures, as well as non-owners who get bitten).

But a well trained, socialised, and domesticated dog is a great companion and source of joy. I love 'em, and I very much prefer dogs to people. I've never been hurt by a dog - wish I could say the same about some people I've had the ill-fortune to come into contact with! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 07:45 AM

We can extend the arguement...

ie: interesting to compare how many toddlers are injured or killed each year by dogs,
compared to those who are victims of careless drivers...

Should bad car owners who inflict harm have their vehicles taken off them and destroyed,
and be banned from ever owning one again...???

[.. well.. imho.. obviously.. yes...!!!]


So much easier and convenient to demonise 'dangerous dogs,
and whip up hysteria against them in newspapers and social media...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 07:46 AM

...and don't get me started on Breed-Specific Legislation! :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: G-Force
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 11:58 AM

... and fail to act accordingly around dogs ... as well as non-owners who get bitten

Well that's one way of looking at it. It's all my fault for not knowing how not to get bitten by somebody's untrained or uncontrolled dog. Perhaps I should give back the 1500 pounds. Thanks for clearing that up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 12:26 PM

".. and fail to act accordingly around dogs ... as well as non-owners who get bitten

Well that's one way of looking at it. It's all my fault for not knowing how not to get bitten by somebody's untrained or uncontrolled dog. Perhaps I should give back the 1500 pounds. Thanks for clearing that up."


Not at all. But a dog is a dog, and if for instance (and this has actually happened to me) I'm in a shopping precinct with my dog on a short leash, and a random parent tells their child to "Go and stroke the nice doggie", and I ask them not to allow their child to approach my dog, but they do so anyway and the child rushes up, shouting excitedly and thrusting his/her hands into the dog's face, who is more to blame if the dog reacts badly, the dog, or me, or the child, or the parent?

That is what I meant by 'fail to act accordingly around dogs'. As it happens, my dog is friendly and reacts well to strangers, but some dogs are nervous and don't always react well.

When approaching any strange animal, domesticated or otherwise, caution is always a very good idea. If someone throws caution to the wind, it should come as no surprise when the animal reacts in an unexpected way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 03:08 PM

no matter how i often i hear the 'it's the owner not the dog' thing i can't get over my fear of over-muscular big jawed staffy type dogs. i don't suppose my lovely, gentle lurcher sees it in the same way but i also get worried for how she must view these dogs down at her level


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 04:06 PM

Instead of ratcheting up a conversation that isn't about dog training, does anyone else have any observations about dog training?

There used to be a British program that was popular, probably in the 1980s or 1990s, a woman talking about dogs - a very starched tweedy program, as I recall.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 04:07 PM

I'm more afraid of over-muscular, swaggering, aggressive humans. I've been attacked by those a few times, but never by a Staffie! And, if I see a dog I'm not sure of, I do precisely the same as I do when I encounter an over-muscular, swaggering, aggressive human - I take avoiding action.

But I do understand your POV, Pete. I refer you to my comments about 'too many owners who shouldn't have dogs', 'people who fail to act appropriately around dogs', and 'too many dogs'.

FWIW, I'm scared absolutely shitless by cattle and horses, and I've been known to make very lengthy diversions in order to avoid walking through fields containing them when I'm out on the hills or in the countryside. I feel no shame! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 04:20 PM

i'm with you on that bwm but my own fear of both dogs and their 'owners'was exacerbated when working at a hostel for young homeless people. we had 10 young people staying there who were not allowed pets in the hostel. however, there was very often, and inevitably, big muscular dogs pulling along in front of their owners who were visiting dealers, attracted by a potential market of vulnerable young people.
some years later, there is a guy down our street who walks his big staffie near us, who i'm sure is no threat at all - but i always think of these vicious people and their weaponised dogs when i see them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 04:22 PM

Yep, I get that Pete. I guess we're all held hostage to some degree by our past experiences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 05:40 PM

Stilly - the woman you remember was most probably Barbara "walkies" Woodhouse...

Her TV shows inspired my sister to buy that very expensive top pedigree border collie
to train for competitive obedience competitions...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 08:03 PM

I was thinking "walkies" but I couldn't figure out how to convey it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 19 - 11:19 PM

I'd propose a reasonable compromise on taking dogs into crowded public places,
no matter how well trained they are,
is to voluntarily keep them muzzled.
I'd guess it's not impossible to buy well fitted comfortable muzzles
that still allow a dog to drink and eat small treats.
Facilitating quick release when in a situation where no kids,
or timid nervous adults [giving off the scent of fear],
can bother them...???????

In parks and fields, beaches, etc where your dog is unmuzzled to enjoy sticks and balls,
then it'd be our responsibility to train them well enough to return to heel and lead,
if kids, other boystrous dogs, and unknown quantity strangers get too close.

As for thugs with with deliberately trained attack dogs,
I'd back any law to permanently impound their dogs,
with hope of rehabilitating them in rescue centres.
Only as a very last last result should they be put down...

I can't be arsed googling which, if any, nations impose compulsary muzzling in public.
But I wouldn't fight against it if implemented fairly & sensibly...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Jan 19 - 03:55 AM

There are bunches of good dog training videos like this one on YouTube - but training for a loose leash is probably the most challenging thing. For me, anyway. Had a shocking row with my puppy yesterday when he was dragging me along…

Here's Barbara Woodhouse - there's a story about her saying "SIT!" and a roomful of journalists immediately landing down on to their chairs.

I find training a dog to sit and wait for food is the easiest thing. After all, you have a great bargaining chip in your hand! Fill the dish, then tell the dog to sit, about a metre away, or more. Lower the dish slowly. If the dog jumps up, the dish goes up. If the dog keeps sitting, the dish keeps coming down. It won't be perfect the first time, but will get quickly better.

I've also found it easy to teach the pup and his predecessor dog and cats, not to beg at table; I throw the odd treat if he's sitting, then if he's lying down, so lying quietly near me is the most rewarding place to be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 19 - 02:16 PM

If we don't fall asleep after big mince beef and spuds chilli stew,
we plan on watching "Alpha" tonight...

Best dog movies so far in the last couple of years:

"Max"
"Megan Leavey" / aka - "Rex"
"Bullet Head"


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 19 - 02:25 PM

My younger blue heeler dances around and bounces off of me at feeding time, so we're beginning a series of "sit . . . stay . . . . shhhhh! . . . sit . . . " etc. sessions. It didn't take her long to figure out she has to actually stay put once I'm putting her bowl on the floor (until all dogs are told they can "eat" and dive in), but now we're working on the not bouncing off the walls before that bowl part of the routine. If I'm consistent she'll catch on quickly enough, and whoever ends up feeding her for me if I'm out of town on occasion will thank me. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Jan 19 - 11:11 PM

And you’ll have a nicer dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 19 - 02:47 AM

Alpha - a very good movie for kids, and not too far-fetched for higher educated adults...

Watched on Google play streaming.
Annoyingly, the slightly shorter Director's cut on Blu-ray is judged to be the better film.

Anyway, now Czech Wolfdogs are on my list of highly desirable but totally impractical pets...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Jan 19 - 05:44 AM

Here's Karen Pryor, one of the greatest animal behaviour advisors, on loose-leash walking:

Loose-leash walking part 1

Loose-leash walking part 2

(The clicks are made with a clicker like the ones kids play with, or used to, as a Christmas cracker toy, and US troops were issued with as a signal in a battle in World War II (a famous plot point in The Longest Day - Longest Day clicker scene). The "click" sound is supposed to trigger a reaction in the amygdala, and is always paired with a treat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Jan 19 - 05:44 AM

Actually, correction, those links are to Karen Pryor's site, but are by another trainer using her 'Clicker Training' method.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 19 - 07:11 AM

I grew up on a council estate in a small west country market town.
Our extended working class family always had dogs [and other pets].
They were a significant part of our culture.
I was given my pup circa 1969 when I was about 9.
I trained it successfully with simple affection and respect.
The only equipment was a collar and a lead.
My dog obeyed all basic commands, and could behave well..
and soon enough be trusted to walk by my side, cross roads, unleashed.
I'd only need the lead to tie him to a secure structure while he sat waiting outside shops.

I simply don't accept that dog training needs to be a big palava
involving pockets full of treats, clickers, and whatever else superfluous tat
the pet industry deems essential for it's continuing profitability...

I was a schoolboy, and could achieve that level of good training
simply by devoting many hours each day to bonding and walks.

My dog did have treats - bonios, dog chocs, hide chews, and butchers bones,
to supplement canned dog food.
But all given freely in the kitchen and back yard, simply out of love
Not part of any faddish text book training regime...

No need for instructional dog manuals,
my constant informal family environment trained me to train my dog well.

It's 50 years later now, the changes in the pet industry are outrageous...
- don't get me going off about profiteering pet insurance and vets...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Jan 19 - 08:33 AM

Ah pfr, I think you've hit on the most important part of the subject:
'simply by devoting many hours each day to bonding and walks'.
I wonder if people nowadays don't have the time? Glued to their gadgets and mobile phones, glued to the TV, glued to their sofas.
It must take dedication to devote hours each day to training and exercising a dog/dogs.
I also think breed is important. Some breeds, as I understand it, need lots of outdoor time and stimulation (the gundogs, and spaniels, German shepherds, terriers etc) They aren't simply toys for silly folk to pop in a handbag, dress up in daft outfits or leave indoors all day long completely alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Jan 19 - 10:55 AM

Ah, that golden glow of the golden past in retrospect…!


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Jan 19 - 11:20 AM

It wasn't by any means a 'golden past', but the internet wasn't available and we didn't have a TV. People, especially children, were indeed more active then and had more time for pets and each other.
Our lives were in fact quite hard compared to nowadays, but some aspects were in my opinion rather better for our mental equilibrium (and for training dogs!).


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Subject: RE: BS: Dog training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 19 - 11:46 AM

I enjoyed being a free range kid,
living on the edge of open countryside, and not too far from the coast..

When I started grammar school and fell between my old working class estate,
and new middle class mates in the big town..
I became dislocated between 2 cultures...
The old council estate schoolmates became antagonistic,
and the new posher ones tended to look down on us kids bussed into grammar from poxy rough little towns..

Me and my little scruffy dog would easily do a 5 to 10 mile walk following the river on a saturday afternoon...
Or on the weeks I was off school with one health problem or another,
me and my dog spent as much time as we could getting out and far away on our own..

Walking my dog for hours alone in nature was a great escape when I was in my early teens...

Though dog did start to get a bit neglected when I discovered girls and electric guitars.....


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Mudcat time: 19 January 1:43 PM EST

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