BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 09:52 AM

The regulations people seem to be focused on are things like food standards, which do vary greatly all over the world. If you don't think Monbiot is suitable, look at the Huffington Post article. Or better still the original documents sent to the US government. They are not hard to find ("Negotiating Objectives for a U.S.-United Kingdom Trade Agrement")

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 09:56 AM

The only oil I eat is extra virgin olive oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:13 AM

Whale oil beef hooked!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:53 AM

If anyone is in any doubt as to the fact that the Tories created this fuck up, listen to one of your own

Baroness Warsi on Brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 11:50 AM

I see the link is through farcebook. Says it all really!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 12:20 PM

??????

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 12:42 PM

Farage forming a new political party. From Guido the leading source of news on brexit.

!!!!!!!
Cannot wait for the new show to hit the road!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 01:03 PM

That Farage and others have registered a new party named "Brexit" has been widely reported. That is, I think, a Project Fear worthy of the name. It is quite possible that the party gathers a lot of those in search of The One True Brexit, and like all single issue parties it will probably be very reticent on what else it stands for. It could highly dangerous and will feed on the resentments over Brexit whatever the outcome. We need to be very alert to the risks.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 05:29 PM

For those incapable of following links to videos, here is a transcript of Barroness Warsi's interview in The Independent

States early on

The peer, who served in a number of roles under David Cameron when he was Prime Minister, admitted that the EU referendum was held to keep the Conservative Party together and insufficient plans were made for Britain voting to leave the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 05:57 PM

A piece from The New Statesman carefully explaining the nature of the Abusive Relationship the UK now has with the EU, brought about by the shameful behaviour of Brexiteers, and their ridiculous word-twisting and over-reaction to Mr. Tusk's 'special place in Hell' comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 02:59 AM

Jonn Elledge is spot on with his analysys, BWM. Trouble is, he refers to EU countries such as France and Germany as allies and our rabid brexiteers don't like that. They will remind you about WW1 and WW2. When you point out that we allied ourselves with France and Belgium in those conflicts they will remind you about Agincourt. When you remind them that we were allied with The Low Countries in the 100 years war they will probably struggle unless they can dredge up some sea battles with the Dutch. Chances are they will just call you a traitor and collaborator and say that even if we are not at war with them, we should be. After all, they are European, eat babies and want to shag your wife. And that's before they start on the New Statesman being a communist mouthpiece for Soviet domination ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 03:31 AM

I like the cut of his jib!


https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17356118.letter-mps-will-be-finished-if-they-go-back-on-brexit/

No wishy washy signs of appeasement from him.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 03:44 AM

It seems the contract with the Ferry Company With No Ships has been cancelled. But I was struck by the curious phrase 'no taxpayer money has been paid'. Surely the more natural phrase would be 'no money has been paid' which obviously includes the former phrase. As it is, the phrase suggests money has been paid, but not directly attributable to current taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 03:59 AM

Maybe the Tory party paid for it, DMcG. After all, the contract lined the pockets of some of them...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 04:08 AM

Maybe the Tory party paid for it, DMcG. After all, the contract lined the pockets of some of them...
Jolly good distraction techniques to divert attention from labour. They have many problems.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/08/luciana-berger-labour-members-antisemitism

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 04:13 AM

I think it more likely money has come out of some government fund that is not directly related to current taxpayers, but is of course (after sufficient back and forth between accounts and departments and relabelling) still ultimately from either the current taxpayers or, via debt, from future taxpayers.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 07:20 AM

I see Grayling has cancelled the ferry contract awarded to the firm with no boats. That seems like sound policy to me. I applaud them for seeing sense on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 07:33 AM

I condemn them for being such a bunch of greedy, self-serving twunts in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 10:07 AM

Not to say extremely irresponsibly stupid with the taxpayers money
What moron hands out a massive amounbt of cash to a shipping line with no ships and no lace to land them if they had them ?
Sums up the standards of our politicians perfectly in my opinion
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 10:34 AM

Not to say extremely irresponsibly stupid with the taxpayers money

Typical unfocused un-researched kneejerk reaction.

No tax payers money was involved has been very clearly stated by all sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 10:40 AM

Awkward things facts!


Ferry firm will get no moneuy upfront

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 10:58 AM

Whether taxpayers money is involved depends on who you believe, who you count as a taxpayer and how you apportion costs. Here is a different viewpoint:


Keeping the site open is costing local taxpayers £7,224 a day, according to a local source, and the council – which has already spent months in fruitless negotiations with Seaborne – had proposed shutting it down to help balance the books.

The DfT persuaded the council to keep it open, claiming that talks with Seaborne were at an “advanced stage”, according to Paul Messenger, a local Conservative councillor.

He said the port was costing about £2m a year: “That’s why we haven’t got any road sweepers, that’s why we haven’t got any public lavatories.”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 11:27 AM

LAID OUT SO FAR TO MAKE UP FOR BREXIT LOSSES
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 11:43 AM

I am surprised that anyone can believe a contract has been awarded and then cancelled with absolutely no costs involved.

Does that mean that everyone who worked on the contract tendering process did so without pay, that all the office space and on costs were free .......... together with all the other associated costs.






Mind you some people seem to believe in Unicorns too!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 11:52 AM

"I condemn them for being such a bunch of greedy, self-serving twunts in the first place."

Apologies - I omitted 'incompetent' from the above in error. Should say, "I condemn them for being such a bunch of greedy, self-serving, incompetent twunts in the first place".

Grayling must qualify for the title 'Most Incompetent Minister In Parliamentary History'.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 12:00 PM


I am surprised that anyone can believe a contract has been awarded and then cancelled with absolutely no costs involved.

In normal circumstance I would agree, Raggy. Any competent business drawing up such a contract would include all sorts of penalty clauses to do with cancellation.

However, this company was the one using pizza delivery t&c's, so it is believable they *were* that incompetent.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 12:09 PM

"'Most Incompetent Minister In Parliamentary History'."
Puts him first in line as next leader of the Tory Party I would think
Can't think of anybody more qualified - can anybody ?
Jim carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 12:20 PM

Even Pizza delivery has on costs!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 01:36 PM

I suppose it is only right that a folk music site should encompass the noble art of pin dancing, as exemplified above.
Meanwhile tic toc!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:07 AM

St Jeremy of the allotment is having his wings singed in the press today.Even the Guardian/Observer has this to say:
Corbyn’s leadership is under withering fire. He is attacked, again, for a perceived failure to effectively combat antisemitism within the party, in the case of Wavertree MP Luciana Berger. His support for Venezuela’s discredited socialist experiment has drawn more fire. He faces threats from a number of MPs to quit the party altogether. And on Brexit, to date, he has been, at best, ambivalent about following stated conference policy and, at worst, duplicitous.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6686593/Jeremy-Corbyns-40-years-plots-lies-intimidation-chaos.html
Jeremy Corbyn's 40 years of plots, lies, intimidation and chaos: Chilling biography tells how Labour leader followed Lenin and Trotsky's bloody footprint - seize power, purge moderates, crush dissent and leave the dirty work to others

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/09/no-wonder-feminists-have-had-enough-jeremy-corbyn-fellow-brocialists/

Seems a concerted effort to highlight the chappie's failings. It rather destroys the credibility of the doyen? of the left. Perhaps the movers and shakers are fed up with his endless posturing, especially with a potential split in the offing. I wonder if those responsible have been learning from the Democrats mistakes? Their engineered takedown is turning into a fiasco.
Interesting times!.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:16 AM

Interesting new idea afoot according to the Guardian website. Parliament could be asked to accept May's deal on condition that there would then be a referendum with a simple choice, May's deal or remain. I can see that gaining ground. Not keen meself. I don't like referendums and I think I that May's deal is a terrible idea. The temptation could be that it's likely to be the only way to break the deadlock, and there would be no objection from the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:23 AM

It is an interesting idea. I doubt, though, that a referendum without a 'no-deal' option would be approved by Parliament. The Brexiteers would demand it, and few politicians will be prepared to sign up for something the Mail & co will present as 'defying the will of the people', however dubious such an assertion might be.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:40 AM

As a recent survey showed that many people thought that no deal meant remain, having both no deal and remain as a choice would just confuse them.

What has happened to our education system? :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:49 AM

What has happened to our education system? :-(

Now that is a topic and a half! Best kept off this thread, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 05:44 AM

Best kept off this thread, though.
Yes indeed,otherwise the educational failings of remainiacs might rise to the fore!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 05:58 AM

The brexiteers might demand it, DMcG, but they are decidedly in a minority in Parliament, and we're told that almost no-one wants no-deal. The proposal will more likely be overturned on account of the fear of MPs in leave constituencies facing a backlash in the next election for failing to cowtow to "the will of the people." Pardon me for being cynical.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:27 AM

It is the will of the people elects them. They either pay attention, or find alternative employment.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 07:38 AM

The simplest way to keep it off the referendum is to recognise that Parliament has already voted a week or two against a no deal. But I share your cynicism, Steve: it could be voted against as you suggest because of that fear, or amended to add a no deal because of that selfsame fear. Or call it self interest if you prefer.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 01:53 PM

Steve: "We're told that almost no-one wants no-deal"

That's the problem. Some people just believe what they are told.
When Cameron suggested a referendum I'm sure he was told Remain would win it. People on this site seemed to think it was a forgone conclusion. The reality was something different.

If you were to say that "very few MPs want no-deal" then you may well be correct. But the majority of MPs (apparently) favoured Remain anyway, so that would not stretch credibility.
What the people of the country want in the current situation has yet to be tested, but the latest referendum is still the 2016 one, and a majority (of those who voted) voted to leave the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 02:22 PM

Nitpicking once again Nigel.

Do you have anything positive to tell us about Brexit.

I know I have asked this question on many many occasions, I have yet to receive a direct answer.

I would have hoped that after over two and a half years you may have been able to come up with some things to make me think that Brexit may have some beneficial outcomes for the UK.

Sadly I'm still awaiting such .............

Over to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 03:38 PM

I do like the way remainiacs like to ignore an adherence to facts by dismissing it as nitpicking. This same wilful disregard for reality is of course the reason Labour, when in power, always makes such a shambles of the economy. However we are quite safe. Under the realm of Corbyn labour can only wilt.No one, but no one, would trust him as PM.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:02 PM

To be clear, Nigel, that's what I meant. "The brexiteers might demand it, DMcG, but they are decidedly in a minority in Parliament, and we're told that almost no-one wants no-deal. The proposal will more likely be overturned on account of the fear of MPs in leave constituencies..." etc.

Just for you, I suppose I could have said "...almost no-one in Parliament..." Silly me for thinking I'd provided enough context for that already.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:06 PM


The brexiteers might demand it, DMcG, but they are decidedly in a minority in Parliament, and we're told that almost no-one wants no-deal.

For the record, as that sentence was explicitly directed to me, it is worth noting I read it in the sense I believe it was intended - that the 'almost no-one' related to the people in Parliament already referenced in the sentence. That the content of the universal can be interpreted in different ways is beside the point, common to almost every sentence in English using universals and, yes, nit-picking.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:07 PM

cross-posted there, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:46 PM

Cheers, DMcG. As we used to say oop north, you'll never see what I'll buy you!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 05:32 PM

I THINK CORBYN WOULD BE A GOOD PRIME MINISTER

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 05:58 PM

I think the Tories are frightened of him

Why 15-page Jeremy Corbyn 'hatchet job' shows Tories are taking him seriously

He must be doing something right.

But if course all of this is just to take the heat of the complete cock up they have made over brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:01 PM

Oh, and into the valley of death ride the...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:42 PM

To be clear, Nigel, that's what I meant. "The brexiteers might demand it, DMcG, but they are decidedly in a minority in Parliament, and we're told that almost no-one wants no-deal. The proposal will more likely be overturned on account of the fear of MPs in leave constituencies..." etc.

Just for you, I suppose I could have said "...almost no-one in Parliament..." Silly me for thinking I'd provided enough context for that already.

Yes, but if your comments were allowed to ride we would be accepting that "almost no-one wants no-deal". If you wish to clarify the comment, then do so.
I may be alone in expecting people to be clear in their meanings.
If, as an ex-teacher, you are unable to accurately formulate your comments, that is your problem, not mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:48 PM

Nope. The problem is all yours. Nighty night, Nigletpicker.