BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Aug 19 - 02:33 PM

and the people have never really taken Farage too seriously

I do like your little jest.

17.4 million voted for brexit(A resounding majority) 72,2% turnout. As compared with 73.3 in 1992 and 64% in the 1975 Referendum.
29 MEPs stood on a Brexit ticket outnumbering all others.(29/72 = 40%


More Abbacus mathemagic! Did young jimmy go to Hogwarts, or is he simply innumerate?
Have you ever considered verifying your nonsense before posting? It must require all of 2 minutes!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Aug 19 - 03:34 PM

Sorry about my link. Does anyone want to see the article? I am pretty sure I could paste it here in toto. Dog jokes ok.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 19 - 04:24 PM

YouGov is a Tory organisation, Tory-founded, thoroughly Tory, thoroughly capitalistic. Now that doesn't mean that their polls are dishonestly conducted, etc. But there's a degree of dishonesty in that name. "Gov" doesn't half sound official, doesn't it? Just in case anyone thought that their data emanates from some official government setup. No such luck. Know thine enemy!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Aug 19 - 05:24 PM

http://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/officers-members/

Members (Company representatives)

    ......................
    Ipsos MORI — Simon Atkinson — 020-7347 3000
    ..........................
    Moonlight Research — Nick Moon — 07770-564 664
    Opinium — James Endersby — 020-7566 3197
       Populus — Andrew Cooper — 020-7253 9465
    Public First — Seb Wride — 020-3687 2761
    qriously — Abraham Muller — 07761-787 065
    Sky Data — Harry Carr — 07817-461 632
    Survation — Damian Lyons Lowe — 020-3142 7644
    YouGov — Anthony Wells — 020-7012 6000

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 02:37 AM

"YouGov is a Tory organisation,"
If the people's opinion counted a fiddlers fart to any of these clowns they would be asked to re-confirm their decision now that it has been exposed as the train-wreck it obviously is.
All we get from the politicians is "it's the peoples's choice and all we get here is a blanket of silence from the slightly more thoughtful Brexiteers, otherwise, the outpourings from Westminster's favourite self-confessed neo-Nazi blogger.
That's not what the people voted for
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 03:35 AM

From the London Economic.

Don’t have to look far on this thread to find the brainwashed ones...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 04:15 AM

Good to see the level of hysteria rising among the remainiacs as the clock continues to run down.
The latest cunning plan from those unable to accept the majority vote is to attempt to arrange a coup and usurp the government's role.
Steptoe senior, the most toxic political figure in the land, is having none of that though. Even the church is getting involved. The game plan seems to be squabble, squabble, toil and trouble. I suspect Carey has just ignited a fuse under the Church of England that he will learn to rue.
The two sides of the divide are quite simple to understand:
Leave won the vote and all who support democracy accept that, no matter what side of the divide they inhabit.
A hardcore of remainiacs just cannot accept the will of the majority carries the day, whether it comprises a majority of one, a thousand, a million, ten million. That is the whole basis of democracy. Do they seriously think they can thwart the will of the majority. Sow the wind and reap the whirlwind. The remainiacs had better be aware that the level of rage that will surface should they frustrate Brexit will be of a level never seen in their lifetimes, Remainiacs are ready to risk all to ensure that their minority view prevails.

not often I link to the mail but the article below spells out the situation very clearly. Contrary to the impression gained on Mudcat, Brexiteers won the referendum clearly and unequivocally. Endless bleating from the vociferous on here and their continual attempts to silence all opposition change the facts not one iota. Very clearly the remainiacs are attempting to subvert Democracy, no other explanation is possible.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7400941/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-Corbyn-rabble-alliance-dont-understand-democracy.html

ps continually questioning the validity of yougov polls is rather a wasted effort. Yougove adheres to the same rules as all the other major polling companies. If you attempted to understand my links you would know this. Continually attacking their polls is asinine. Howsabout arguing Tuesday is wednesday? a far more fruitful endeavour!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 04:31 AM

Corbyn has had the right scared stitless since his appearance on the scene - to misquote Billy Connolly, if you want to confuse a rightist, present him with a new idea based on principle and fairness.
Interesting to see YouGov's survey suggesting that the Tories would see their country and their party betrayed rather than lose Brexit, goes unchallenged - I suppose we take that as assent then

"the brainwashed ones..."
Generous of you to suggest there is an evidence of a brain
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 04:34 AM

what we must do is reclaim the sovereignty of the british parliament - oh, hang on - actually we can't be bothered, lets just have a far-right coup instead.

resist these clueless fascists in any way you can

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 04:44 AM

Isn't it great to see democracy (Johnson style) in action.

Even going as far as to openly claim the latest move is to prevent debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 04:57 AM

This news is that democracy has been abandoned. All the sanctimonious shit we've heard from leavers about respecting the democratic referendum decision - now this blatant ploy to shut out legitimate opposition. It's nothing less than proto-fascism. A million whited sepulchres are flying past the window.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 05:00 AM

"lets just have a far-right coup instead. "
Farage's 'Rivers of Blood'poster was the first giant step in that direction - now Brainless Boris is winding up for more of the same
Trump has already started the ball rolling across the Pond by telling Women Politicians got go back to their own countries - and mor significantly targeting the Jewish People - the silence from our own decent, Democratic Government on that one is deafening
AS PEGGY SEEGER SANG
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 06:38 AM

No need Mrrzy. Here is a link

Of course our brexiteers will say it is just project fear. Even though it is a leave favouring government that is saying it. C'est la vie.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 06:45 AM

"Of course our brexiteers will say it is just project fear. "
They've already claimed it to be "our of date" - whatever that could possibly means
Whatever it does mean, it represents suppressed information deliberately hidden from the public on whose behalf they claim to be working for
Lying to the electorate has always been the Rabid Right's version of democracy
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 06:46 AM

PM Johnson is adamant that proroguing Parliament has nothing whatever to do with preventing Parliament trying to stop a no deal.


I would be surprised if anyone believed that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 06:54 AM

Oh, some will DMcG. Just you watch!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 07:08 AM

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b1785a3f73d0938529b14b9ac309292a2c70724f574fff7f9f6ac69d1a9af74e.jpg

The sun has got his hat on Hip-hip-hip hooray
The sun has got his hat on
And he's coming out to day
Now we'll all be happy
Hip-hip-hip hooray
The sun has got his hat on
And he's coming out to day !!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 07:17 AM

"I would be surprised if anyone believed that."Yeah - it's probably a coincidence that it's been timed to allow Brexit to be forced through
Come-oooon mac - you're more astute than that
Every report on Johnson's intended coup - links the two - our resident goose-stepper obviously does - hence the dance
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 07:40 AM

Quite so, Jim: that is what I meant.

Even Guido does not believe the PM's claim. No doubt a number of MPs will *say* they think there is no connection, but I feel confident even they know there is.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 08:46 AM

My apologies Mac
I mis read yuouur posting
The walking/chewing gum syndrome is showing again
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 11:25 AM

Number 10 has confirmed to Guido that Her Majesty the Queen has already formally approved the Government’s order for a new Queen’s Speech and prorogation of Parliament from the 11th September. Making the letter that dozey Corbyn wrote to Her Majesty a couple of hours ago requesting a meeting before she did so, irrelevant…

The Queen signed the prorogation order after a meeting with Privy Councillors Jacob Rees-Mogg, Baroness Evans, and Mark Spencer. It remains to be seen whether Best for Britain follow through on their absurd threat to the Queen for doing so…

https://order-order.com/2019/08/28/queen-approves-prorogation-request/

Note No 10 confirmed the news to Guido!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 11:37 AM

Funny old world init? We now have PM who was not elected by the people taking actions that remove sovereignty from parliament. And those who squawk the loudest about a people's democracy and regaining control are cheering this on. Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 11:40 AM

Nothing new about rabid right hypocrisy Dave - when have they eevr been anything but ?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 11:46 AM

Good gawd! Suspending Parliament?
This is Nazism. I hope you guys are gonna take to the streets over this.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 12:11 PM

We should! But I’m betting we’ll just give it a bit of stiff upper lip.... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 12:24 PM

I feel like stuffing my face with paracetamol than give the likes of Johnson Mogg and Farage the satisfaction of gloating over damaging so many people's lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 12:35 PM

Thanks, DtGnome.

So the US press seems to be reporting he's asked her to suspend Parliament, and the British press seems to say she has. Has Parliament been suspended? At Boris' request?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 12:41 PM

So the US press seems to be reporting he's asked her to suspend Parliament, and the British press seems to say she has. Has Parliament been suspended? At Boris' request?

Almost. He has asked for it to be suspended from 10 September until 14th October, and the Queen has agreed. In practice, she had no alternative. There will now follow days of legal challenges and frenetic activity in Parliament to see if anything can be done before 10th.

Whatever you think about the pros and cons of Brexit, this sets a very dangerous precedent whereby any PM could suspend Parliament for weeks - and why not months if it suited - pretty much whenever they found it convenient.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 12:44 PM

Per The Guardian she has.

God help you lot. Between Trump & Boris the world is going to shit.

Stay tuned for the burning of the Reichstag.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 12:52 PM

You carefully overlook the fact the Major prorogued Parliament for six weeks in order to avoid the cash for questions embarrassment.
As the mirror succinctly says:
He’s setting the date for a Queen’s Speech and State Opening of Parliament (which happen together on the same day).

This effectively reboots Parliament, setting off a new ‘session’ and shutting down the old one.

This process called "proroguing" usually happens every year - but it doesn’t have to, and Theresa May chose not to have a Queen’s Speech in 2018-19, so she’d have more time to push Brexit plans through.
That means we've now had the longest gap between Queen's Speeches for more than 400 years.
To trigger a Queen's Speech Parliament has to have a short break, which usually lasts a few days. This time Boris has made it longer.
Quite a normal constitutional process. Democracyt rules and remainiacs are spitting nails. They are talking about a coup and all sorts of other nonsense. One day they will have to accept the majority won the referendum and their choice was to leave the EU either with or without a deal.
Time for another Carry On film......Carry on squealing!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 12:59 PM

It was at the request of the Privy Council including Mogg. Of course all the leavers will be gloating because they got what they wanted as if it is nothing but a fucking game. In reality they got fuck all, expect fucking up peoples lives, young people's opportunities in the future. When the reality hits I will have no sympathy whatsoever if people whose lives they damaged knock their teeth down their throats - or worse.

To the mods - please excuse my anger profane language - I am not usually like this. surprised that my heart rate is only 94 bpm. Went up to 104 now down to 80.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 01:17 PM

Does this really come as a surprise ?
Bitan has ben swinging to the right since the the powers that be allowed shite like Farage to take the lead in this referendum
Better get used to the idea that from now on democracy will be a moveable feast
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 01:29 PM

Will it really come as any surprise when the people take democracy into their own hands on the basis that a lying **** like Johnson can just overrule elected parliamentary representatives and dictate to 68 million people. If that happens and I am on a jury where the defendants mete out their own version of justice I would have no problem voting not guilty (as is my right) on the grounds that their victims were only getting what they deserve, and proportionately the damage the victims did to society is much greater.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 01:38 PM

Sorry, SPB. I understand your fury at this but in advocating violence against politicians you are also justifying the murder of Jo Cox. We should never, under any circumstances, use the same level of violence as the extremists. Civil unrest against unjust laws is one thing. Murder is another.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 02:07 PM

"you are also justifying the murder of Jo Cox. "
Brexit's first victim - more to come
It's a bit 'shutting the door after the donkey's done a runner to talk of violence Dave
Go ask the victims of the spike in hate crimes brought about by this scummy so called democratic vote
I'm not advocating that anybody should take a leaf out the rightist book but don't be surprised if they do
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 02:16 PM

I am not advocating murder, I never would. I made my views plain on that in comments I have made about capital punishment where I would vote not guilty rather than have anyone put to death supposed in my name. I am not even recommending violence - though the toe of my post might suggest otherwise - their are ore subtle forms of retribution. I will not change my position, however on the line I would take if I was on a jury.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 02:31 PM

In the end we are facing division that has been created by one side only by even contemplating anything so divisive. Division what, in the end, was as a result of a vague which was one one reassurances by its main protagonists would mean a future relationship along the lines of EEA, followed by red lines which automatically precluded this, as well as a rising tide of hatred directed towards European Nationals living in the UK. What we have now is a far right government forcing through their agenda. I do not advocate or even relish division escalating into extreme violence, but Johnson has now lit the blue touch paper, and I fear nothing can be done to stop this happening. At lease May had the good sense when she was Home Secretary to forbid the use of Johnson's water cannons - about the onlt decent thing she ever did.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 02:41 PM

BREXIT THE 41% SOLUTION
JO COX - FIRST VICTIM OF BREXIT
Hardly surprising given the example of our own Brexiteer
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 03:35 PM

if parliament is acting undemocratically, then, in order to carry out democracy, it must be bypassed.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 04:07 PM

Have the good people here noticed that the more rational Brexiteers on this site have failed to comment on the travesty that Johnson has instigated today.

As of 30 minutes ago an on-line petition calling on the government not to prorogue parliament had already received over 800,000 signature in a little over 11 hours.

Stop proroguing parliament


Democracy eh ...............

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 04:10 PM

834,000 plus as of now at 21.10pm

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 04:11 PM

I have signed.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 04:17 PM

Just to say, SPB, I fully share your feeling of sheer anger.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 05:02 PM

Yesterday felt like the best day for democracy for years. All the opposition parties agreed that they would use parliamentary process, the thing which brexiteers supposedly wanted to rescue from those unelected (a lie, of course) Brussels bureaucrats to defeat not brexit but the thing that no-one in this country voted for, a no-deal crashout.

Today, the kneejerk reaction to that by a millionaire UNELECTED toff, supported by the seven-times UNELECTED Brexit Party leader and with the grubby fingerprints of an UNELECTED adviser in Downing Street all over the scheme, is to abandon parliamentary democracy and take away all control from the people we did elect. A bloody dark day, unless you love cheats and liars.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 05:14 PM

The reaction of the UK Left Remainers is, as usual, overblown. The State Opening Of Parliament has taken place annually with very few exceptions throughout and since the twentieth century. Last year was one of those exceptions. To not do it again this year would be completely unprecedented, especially as a new Prime Minister will always want to set up his or her own, new, political agenda. That requires a new Queens speech and that requires prorogation. There was no time to do it before the summer holidays, after that is three weeks of Party Conferences. After that is the obvious time to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 05:35 PM

How pleasant that the squealing remainiacs are now starting to realize how the silent majority feel about their majority decision to leave the EU being constantly frustrated for the past three years.
I am beginning to think there is a slight chance we may yet leave the fascist EU on the 31st of October.
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! and send her victorious and send all those whining remainers such as soubry and compo packing.
There will be a lot of MPs in need of alternative careers very shortly.
Treachery brings just rewards!
What on earth goes through their minds,to think they can subvert the will of the majority?

In the US The constitution declares that the sovereignty lies with the people and the constitution is the embodiment and solemn expression of the will of the people. A shame so many parliamentarians do not share the same view.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 05:47 PM

I subvert the will of the majority every chance I get if I think said majority is wrong. I live in the southern US and am an atheist, so it isn't just the orange guy's will I try to subvert. Not that he was elected by a majority, but his followers outnumber me here...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 06:05 PM

Well done, Stanron, for swallowing hook, line and sinker the disingenuous and dishonest claptrap of the Johnson regime. Prorogation can be for one day. The Queen's Speech can follow the next day. But prorogation is lasting nearly FIVE WEEKS. It's blatantly obvious to all bar the brain-dead that this move is a kneejerk reaction to the unity shown by all opposition parties yesterday, who declared that they wanted to take the thoroughly democratic, legislative path towards trying to prevent A NO-DEAL BREXIT. Not brexit, Stanron: A NO-DEAL BREXIT. That which not one person in this country thought they were voting for, not even you if you're honest. If you have the Tory numbers in the House, Stanron, then what are you afraid of? If you haven't got the Tory numbers, you know why? Because some of your side will defect. Not our side, Stanron, yours. Without Tories, we haven't got the numbers. Without defectors from you Tories, we can't do it. It's what we call Parliamentary democracy, Stanron, that thing that you lot are supposedly trying to rescue from the clutches of the EU. But it's there and useful only when it suits you, it seems. Open your eyes, old boy. You and your side are the ones in all this suffering from the severest form of democratic deficit. We want our ELECTED representatives to have their say. You want your UNELECTED leader to stop them. Ironic, really, when you've been rattling on for three years about how undemocratic the EU is, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 06:57 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Well done, Stanron, for swallowing hook, line and sinker the disingenuous and dishonest claptrap of the Johnson regime. Prorogation can be for one day. The Queen's Speech can follow the next day. But prorogation is lasting nearly FIVE WEEKS. It's blatantly obvious to all bar the brain-dead that this move is a kneejerk reaction to the unity shown by all opposition parties yesterday, who declared that they wanted to take the thoroughly democratic, legislative path towards trying to prevent A NO-DEAL BREXIT. Not brexit, Stanron: A NO-DEAL BREXIT. That which not one person in this country thought they were voting for, not even you if you're honest. If you have the Tory numbers in the House, Stanron, then what are you afraid of? If you haven't got the Tory numbers, you know why? Because some of your side will defect. Not our side, Stanron, yours. Without Tories, we haven't got the numbers. Without defectors from you Tories, we can't do it. It's what we call Parliamentary democracy, Stanron, that thing that you lot are supposedly trying to rescue from the clutches of the EU. But it's there and useful only when it suits you, it seems. Open your eyes, old boy. You and your side are the ones in all this suffering from the severest form of democratic deficit. We want our ELECTED representatives to have their say. You want your UNELECTED leader to stop them. Ironic, really, when you've been rattling on for three years about how undemocratic the EU is, eh?

Well done, Steve Shaw, for swallowing hook, line and sinker the disingenuous and dishonest claptrap of the Labour party line.

It's blatantly obvious to all bar the brain-dead that this move is a kneejerk reaction to the attempt at unity shown by all opposition parties yesterday, who failed to take a thoroughly undemocratic, legislative path towards trying to prevent brexit. Not A NO-DEAL BREXIT, Steve. They want to prevent any kind of Brexit.

I don't claim to be a mind reader and don't know why other people voted as they did. I know I voted to leave the EU and ALL it's institutions.

If you have the betrayal numbers in the House, Steve, then what are you afraid of? If you haven't got the betrayal numbers, you know why? Because some of your side will defect. Not just our side, Steve, yours too. The whole two or three year mess is a result of neither side having the numbers.

Parliamentary democracy, Steve, has already passed the laws that say we leave the EU after Halloween, with or without an agreement. With your attempts to prevent this happening, you and your side are the ones who are suffering from the severest form of democratic deficit. We want the decisions of our ELECTED representatives to be implemented. You want your UNELECTED coalition to stop them. Ironic, really, when you've been rattling on for three years about how democratic the EU is, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 19 - 07:26 PM

You don't read my posts. Long before Corbyn accepted that he couldn't run an emergency government, I posted in this thread that he couldn't do it, that his star had fallen. I've also been a long-time critic of the democratic deficit in the EU, the upshot of what John Seymour called gigantism. But that deficit pales beside the constant attempts by May to sidestep Parliament and by Johnson's attempt to prorogue Parliament. As a side note, I'd suggest you revisit the comments by Gove and Javid of just a few weeks ago, condemning out of hand the very idea of proroguing. Hypocrisy and lying personified. Don't force me to quote. It's all out there for your delectation.

Finally, how easy and lazy of you to cod-paraphrase my post instead of giving us your considered thoughts. Very defensive, very brainless, utterly witless, though, admittedly, quick and devoid of the need for effort. I put my original thoughts in my posts, Stanron, whatever you think of them. One fine day we might just get some of yours. Must try harder, Stanron.