BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 19 - 01:48 PM

A reminder of what Thatcher was being defensive about
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/tories-have-forgotten-that-thatcher-wasnt-just-a-terrorist-sympathiser-but-close-friends-with-one-10507850.html

THATCHER'S TAKE ON DEMOCRACY
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 13 May 19 - 01:39 PM

Parliament represents the interests of the electorate, not their wishes, and definitely not the wishes of an electorate three years ago, wilfully misinformed by the leave supporting politicians and the sewer press. Parliament has enough data, from the scenario assessments carried out by the government themselves (but hidden in so far as they can) to work out that remaining in the EU is in the best interests of the majority. So remain they should.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 19 - 01:21 PM

@ DMcG   I assume you mean (And Westminster ought to be s**t-scared.)

Indeed they should. To run with the hares and hunt with the hounds will always end in tears.

Cameron said the people must decide. They did with a referendum!
Article 50 was passed with a huge majority.
A General Election was called with both parties advocating leave as the mainstay of their ticket.

Since that time a majority in the house have tried to frustrate brexit and destroy democracy.

Both leavers and remainers feel very strongly that Parliament is willfully denying the wishes of the electorate. As recent polls show very clearly the backlash against the two main parties is gathering strength daily. It has now gone beyond simply brexit and the behaviour of both Labour and the Tories is regarded as an affront to democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 19 - 12:40 PM

Jon Crace report on a Brexit Party event

Crace normal writes tongue in cheek critiques of ministers. There is no attempt at humour in this. And even Iains will agree with tha last sentence of the article (ie excluding the generic postscript)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 13 May 19 - 12:30 PM

There was a beautiful moment on Politics Live today. Lord Adonis was there to promote a second referendum. You know."You got the first vote wrong so do it again" sort of thing. In a subsequent subject, a Labour Council ignored residents requests to restore a public clock. At the last election the council became independent and the clock was restored. One of the panelists criticised Labour for not listening to the voters. Lord Adonis, who is a Labour peer, praised how Labour always listens to the voters. I'm surprised the rest of the panel didn't fall of their seats laughing. "You got the first vote wrong so do it again".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 13 May 19 - 11:56 AM

Richard Epstein is not "a respected academic". His affiliation is given as "New York University", which you might think was a major academic institution in New York, but it isn't, the main universities in New York are the State University of New York, the City University of New York, and Cornell University and Columbia University, which are of course Ivy League, and the most prestigious. New York University is a "Non-Sectarian Private College".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 May 19 - 11:56 AM

tories have never had the bottle or ability to stand up to the even further right in their own party and the way they dealt with the nutters and fascists around ukip and beyond was nothing short of appeasement. sadly, the labour party are equally clueless in dealing with the thoroughly nasty extremists in the tory party and their loud and aggressive friends who find farage a bit wet these days. it's all very scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 19 - 11:36 AM

The frightening thing about all this is, out of them all, May is a 'moderate'
The Conservative Party has been hovering on the brink of fascism since the heady days of Powell's 'Rivers of Blood', followed later by Thatcher's climbing into bed with Pinochet
Now you have Boris of Very Little Brain and Lord Snooty waiting in the wings
The somewhat limp-wristed Toryism of our own Nigel, with its willingness to let slide what is happening in their Party is a prime example of moderate Toryism.
Fuhrer Farage doesn't bear thinking about - but it needs to be
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 May 19 - 08:14 AM

A REMINDER OF WHAT FARAGE'S BREXIT WAS ABOUT

As the songs says - "If hey come for me in the morning, they'll come for you in the afternoon"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 May 19 - 07:38 AM

What a short memory people have got

Does Nigel Farage Tell Lies? Yes, Here's Five Of Them

Even more worrying

Farage and the manifesto of lies

And I've posted this before but for a bit of light relief

(I'm Gonna Tell) 500 Lies

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 May 19 - 06:55 AM

Headline seen today:

Nigel Farage is the greatest comeback since Lazarus and May is responsible!

Not only that but he is likely to lead us to the promised land!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 May 19 - 06:06 AM

"What Brexit is all about" that merely discusses upcoming EU elections?"
Brexit opened the door to a massive rise in fascism - inevitable, as it was based on racism in the first place
I ton't expect to hear too loud shrieks of protest from Israeli supporters as the first family of French Antisemitism comes into its own - much easier to target The Labour Party
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 May 19 - 05:40 AM

Tony Blair SQUIRMS when shown Farage's COLOSSAL lead - 'No one WANTS second vote'
TONY BLAIR was left squirming on Sky News this morning when he was forced to confront the scale of the Brexit Party’s lead in the latest Euro election polls - and consequently face the reality that people “don’t” want a second referendum after all.

Spiffing news!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 May 19 - 04:23 AM

Why have a link entitled "What Brexit is all about" that merely discusses upcoming EU elections?

We all know that Brexit now is all about reclaiming democracy from parliament. It is no longer merely Brexit that people are voting for.

I would say Farage has far more chance of becoming PM than steptoe senior and with each successive poll support grows for the Brexit party. Very very dramatic implications for the future of UK politics seeing as the party was only created weeks ago.
A clear reaction to Parliament defying the will of the people. The conclusion is undeniable!

The present numbers beat Labour and Conservative combined and that still leaves the tactical voting for the libdems looking for a useful home in order to further smite the two parties defying the electorate.

The EU elections will definitely create a "popcorn" evening of entertainment when the results come in. The subsequent wailing and gnashing of teeth will be a joy to behold!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 May 19 - 04:21 AM

"'village idiot' epithet credence."
Self identification Mac
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 May 19 - 03:47 AM

That a lot of Brexit supporters are prepared to vote for the Brexit Party in the EU election is no surprise. However, that it seems a lot of them might be prepared to vote for it in a general election when, apart from a hard Brexit, it has not yet published any policies at all does give the 'village idiot' epithet credence.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 May 19 - 03:10 AM

Evidence, if any were needed, of what BREXIT IS ALL ABOUT
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 11 May 19 - 01:08 PM

European Parliament voting intention:

BREX: 34% (+6)
LAB: 21% (-7)
LDEM: 12% (+5)
CON: 11% (-3)
GRN: 8% (+2)
UKIP: 4% (+1)
CHUK: 3% (-4)

Looks like the village idiots have a clear lead, and in a democracy no IQ test is required for voting.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 May 19 - 10:21 AM

As I was emphasing the difference between being mistaken and lying, and said you were NOT lying, that is a bit of an over reaction, don't you think, Nigel? The date was implicit because no one was talking about any other date at the time. I acknowledged I knew of no post where you had explicitly said it and am happy to do so again.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 19 - 09:14 AM

We have reached a point where we can not stomach our vices or its cure.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 May 19 - 08:59 AM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 09 May 19 - 01:17 AM

I detect some confusion about what a lie is and is not. Being wrong is not a lie. Nigel repeatedly said we would be leaving on March 29th but he said it in good faith. It turned out not to be true, but that does mean it was a lie, just false. Equally, when Teresa May said it - at least to begin with - it was said in good faith and so mistaken, but not a lie.

Ah, that old story again.
Assuming that I am the ´Nigel´ referred to, do you not recall checking the basis of your claim, and finding that I hadn´t actually used the claim you attributed to me?
If it´s too much trouble I´ve scrolled back, and it´s in your earlier statement:
From: DMcG - PM
Date: 01 Apr 19 - 04:07 AM

Nigel and I have been comparing predictions, which I summarised as

Over on the earlier thread, I referred to a prediction Nigel had made that we would leave on 31st on WTO rules, whereas I predicted come the 1st April we would still be trying to decide what we are doing.


Since it is now 1st April, I thought I would check up where we were. I think we will all agree that my half was right: we are still trying to decide what to do. However, it turns out I don't have Nigel's prediction quite right. What he said was:

====
Subject: RE: BS: Predictions for the coming new year
From: Nigel Parsons - PM
Date: 23 Dec 18 - 07:46 PM

UK will leave EU on WTO terms.

I´m still hoping that my prediction will be correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 11 May 19 - 06:29 AM

Why so high?

Ask the Financial Times. They wrote the article!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 May 19 - 06:14 AM

Conservatives are worried they might come sixth in the European Elections. Why so high? Given that their headbangers have deserted to the Brexit party or UKIP, the more reasonable among them will go with either Change UK or the Lib Dems, Scottish and Welsh to SNP or Plaid, even if lifelong Tories cannot vote Labour, there is loads of choice. And its not meaningless as a FPTP election would be.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 11 May 19 - 03:28 AM

Now for some facts about brexit:
A poll of polls showed that more than half of voters who backed the Conservatives in the 2017 general election now intend to vote for the Brexit Party.
        The analysis indicates that the Conservatives are on course in this month’s European Parliament elections for the lowest share in history for the governing party in any national vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 May 19 - 02:27 AM

This thread os risking getting onto Trump and Hillary, rather than keeping with Brexit. All I intended to say is that Farage rallies appear to be using exactly the same techniques as Trump's did. Whether the UK cries of "Lock her up!" were simply aping Trump or were heartfelt as they certainly were at Trump's rallies I can't say, not having been at either. But both were meaningless unfounded emotional manipulation.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 19 - 08:29 PM

My wife deals with over 200 federal emails per day. Hillary had over 500.
Mrs. Clinton WAS GUILTY of breaking a guideline, not a law or statute, not a grandfathered law, not even an official federal policy.

She was grilled by a republican congressional committee for an actual 12 hours until her voice gave out. It amounted to the same result as Bengasi, nothing.


If Trump had been successful in jailing Hillary, other Trump opponents and the Democratic Party could have been criminalized by now.
Instead you can visit some of his cabinet in prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 10 May 19 - 03:25 PM

wasn't there an accusation of a law being broken

That accusation and dozens more - all repeatedly proven groundless.

Unlike the documented cases of the law being broken by Trump and his acolytes.

The Republicans are now the party of utter bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 19 - 01:57 PM

Nope. And it's Hillary. It was never was the case of a law being broken

Thanks for the correction, SRS. (Though by my typing standards having the name recognisable at all is a bonus *smile*)

You are closer to the US side than I am, of course, so obviously I will defer to you. But while I am clear no law was broken, wasn't there an accusation of a law being broken? Which there isn't with May.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 May 19 - 12:30 PM

It’s hilarious seeing people queueing up to join, and vote for, the party of the person who, when the Referendum result became known, shat his nether-garments and ran for the hills - too much of a coward to actually take responsibility for the delivery of that which his lies had brought to pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 19 - 12:24 PM

At least in the case of Hilary Clinton there was a possible law being broken,

Nope. And it's Hillary. It was never was the case of a law being broken, just GOP and Trump bullshit to try to influence the election. And two years after the election he still feels the need to fight that fight, probably to try to justify the lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 19 - 12:21 PM

Now back to important matters concerning Brexit:

"THERESA MAY has lost the support of one of the Tory party’s most prominent financial backers to Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party following her failure to leave the EU on time.
The Conservative Party is on track for an “absolute mauling” and Labour is braced for huge losses in the EU elections as the Brexit crisis looks set to change the political landscape of the UK, a recent poll has found.

Brexit will rip support from the UK’s major parties as disillusioned parties turn to Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party in the May 23 elections in in protest against Theresa May’s handling of the UK’s exit from the EU.

Anand Menon, director of think-tank The UK in a Changing Europe, said Theresa May’s ruling government would not call an early election while the UK remains in the EU because they are expecting an “absolute mauling”.

In response to Mr Tusk's claim that there is a 30 percent chance Brexit will be cancelled, a Government spokesman said: "The British people voted to leave the EU in the biggest democratic exercise in our history and the government is focused on delivering that result.

“MPs have already voted on a second referendum a number of times and rejected it."

Both Labour and Conservatives will pay a heavy price for trapping us in the twilight zone!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 19 - 11:05 AM

"trason"
This is the braindead who considers criticism of elected politicians "Anglophobic"
Why is anybody even bothering responding to this ultra-extremist nonsense ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 10:13 AM

John, I am disappointed in you :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 19 - 10:06 AM

and the ballot box for when we disagree.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 May 19 - 09:44 AM

”Is Theresa May guilty of treason? Plenty of readers think so.”

And a perfect illustration of the reason why we have highly-trained lawyers and judges to debate, and make decisions on, questions of law in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 19 - 09:15 AM

Is Theresa May guilty of treason? Plenty of readers think so. Politicians would be wise to listen up


almost a year ago

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2018/07/11/theresa-may-guilty-treason-plenty-readers-think-politicians/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 19 - 09:09 AM

From Dave's link. A spoof maybe, but these extracts are all perfectly accurate:

"Nigel Farage – armed with about as many facts as you'd find in a Harry Potter novel – interrupted, harangued and blustered his way through the entire show, cheered on by a xenophobic section of the audience...

..."It was truly wonderful to see Nigel talk over Fiona Bruce, contradict himself and tell demonstrable lies on national television.

"I mean, the way he claimed that the UK is simultaneously losing jobs to low-skilled immigrants and also depriving other countries of highly-skilled immigrants – brilliant! How Farage attempts to mask his racism beneath a rhetoric of border control is masterful.

"And then there was the WTO question from the audience. Unable to answer, Farage spouted ill-informed nonsense about trade deals which demonstrated his sheer desperation to leave the EU at any cost to the British people."

Spot on.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 08:12 AM

I'll put it down to a kind heart, McG :-)

Moving on - best man toad article yet

Next episode of BBC Question Time to just be an hour of Nigel Farage masturbating

Always thought his followers were wankers. Maybe he is setting an example :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 19 - 07:43 AM

I know, I know, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 07:41 AM

You should know better by now DMcG! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 19 - 07:38 AM

You claim May is passing state secrets to the Russians? In contravention of the Official Secrets Act? I.e. an actual law is being broken?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 19 - 07:24 AM

At a recent Farage rally it is reported that there were chants of "Lock her up" directed at Teresa May.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, 60 years ago May would have been tarred with the same brush as Philby Burgess and the rest of the Cambridge spies. ie. Treachery

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 19 - 06:35 AM

At a recent Farage rally it is reported that there were chants of "Lock her up" directed at Teresa May.

At least in the case of Hilary Clinton there was a possible law being broken, roughly equivalent to our Official Secrets Act.   There is no law whatever that May is being accused of breaking. A mob calling for people to be imprisoned when they have broken no law does not sound to me as if rational argument will have any effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 06:02 AM

From a friend's Facebook page

"Today, on the impartial BBC News, we ask: are the far right really, actually racist, and when will terrorist-fellating anti-semite Jeremy Corbyn admit that he is in fact the reincarnation of Joseph Stalin? Over to our panel, consisting of Nigel Farage in his 58th BBC interview this week, Anne Widdecombe, a frantically masturbating colobus monkey, Enoch Powell's head in a jar and, to represent the Left, Margaret Hodge."

Thanks Simon :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 05:58 AM

From late last year but, seeing as he has been mentioned, still worth a mention

Revealed: the hidden global network behind Tommy Robinson

He is a more obvious crook than the man toad.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 19 - 05:26 AM

Farage was shouty, rude, loud, crude and thuggish all the way through the programme. To hear him burbling on about "democracy" towards the end was positively risible. No light and all heat, the kind of steamy heat that emanates from a pile of fresh manure. Naturally, his braying, brain-dead disciples in the audience made the crowd calling for Barabbas over Jesus sound like a Women's Institute prayer meeting. Fiona is weak and arbitrary. She has to go, otherwise the programme is doomed. The icing on the cake was the UKIP bloke on Andrew Neil's programme defending Tommy Robinson. Thank God for those two epic nights of football earlier in the week.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 19 - 04:31 AM

I did enjoy question time last night.

It was more like a party political broadcast for the Brexit Party.

I can't wait for the EU elections. I might actually celebrate with my first beer in several years.

The lefties cannot attack the message so resort to their usual trick of attacking the messenger. Meanwhile the tide is turning! Brexit 30% and rising.

and below is a jolly tune to sing along to. Just substitute brexit for water!

How high is brexit Momma

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 03:54 AM

rather distorted photo of Farage

How can you tell it was distorted? Did it make him look human? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 May 19 - 05:02 PM

Annunziata Rees-Mogg {{spit}} was standing for Farage’s BrexShit Party in our constituency. I desperately wanted to write an appropriate comment against the BrexShit Party box but, of course, that would have resulted in a ‘spoiled ballot-paper’ and my actual vote would be invalidated, so I resisted. It was a close-run thing though...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 May 19 - 02:24 PM

THE REFERNDUM WAS ADVISORY NOT LEGALLY BINDING ,iains please note