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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Steve Shaw 26 Mar 19 - 09:33 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 09:19 AM
Nigel Parsons 26 Mar 19 - 08:24 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 08:11 AM
DMcG 26 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 06:58 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Mar 19 - 06:15 AM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 05:41 AM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 05:34 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 05:15 AM
DMcG 26 Mar 19 - 05:05 AM
The Sandman 26 Mar 19 - 04:23 AM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 04:07 AM
DMcG 25 Mar 19 - 06:22 PM
Iains 24 Mar 19 - 06:24 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 19 - 06:05 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Mar 19 - 05:42 AM
KarenH 24 Mar 19 - 05:22 AM
Iains 24 Mar 19 - 05:03 AM
Iains 24 Mar 19 - 04:42 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 19 - 04:41 AM
KarenH 24 Mar 19 - 04:30 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 19 - 04:22 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM
Stanron 24 Mar 19 - 03:21 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM
DMcG 23 Mar 19 - 02:04 PM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 09:03 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Mar 19 - 08:19 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 07:40 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 07:37 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Mar 19 - 05:59 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Mar 19 - 05:32 AM
DMcG 23 Mar 19 - 04:52 AM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 03:38 AM
DMcG 23 Mar 19 - 02:20 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 01:02 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 12:38 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 12:25 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 19 - 09:38 PM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 06:18 PM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Mar 19 - 05:26 PM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 05:02 PM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 04:49 PM
Raggytash 22 Mar 19 - 04:28 PM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Mar 19 - 01:58 PM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 09:21 AM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 09:08 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 09:33 AM

That is precisely my viewpoint, Nigel. We PAY them to become more au fait than the rest of us. Or why not take YOUR viewpoint to its logical conclusion: let's have a referendum on everything. And don't forget to ask that random selection of pub punters what a customs union is. One bar where you'll get the correct answer every time would be the one in the House of Commons. I don't fancy your chances anywhere else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 09:19 AM

"So the hoi polloi are insufficiently knowledgeable to decide on a vote on whether to remain in the EU"
They're apparently not to be trusted enough to be allowed to confirm their decision now that the destination has become clear Nigel
The driver has firmly decided the route (or should that be rout?) on this Magical Mystery Tour from day one and most of them are sending their own PERSONAL LUGGAGE off on a safer one as soon as they saw what was heading their way
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 08:24 AM

The quickest way to undermine parliamentary democracy is to wrestle away from its remit the most crucial issue in front of it since WW2 and put it into the hands of over forty million unelected individuals whose credentials are entirely unchecked and which in most cases wouldn't bear close examination

So the hoi polloi are insufficiently knowledgeable to decide on a vote on whether to remain in the EU, but the MPs (who were elected by that same electorate) are!

What an interesting viewpoint.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 08:11 AM

The missing 30000
Interesting bit of news manipulation in the press this morning
The English Times Murdoch bum-wipe reports that 50,000 Irish jobs will be lost thanks to Brexit while the Irish Times and the lady who wrote the report being interview on the radio claims the figure to be 80,000
It seems the right wing press is about as numerate adept as is Britain's leaders

CLARE; I'm sure the lady you referred to has no opinion on the matter
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM

A few Brexiteers (Rees-Mogg, Fabricant for example) are now saying they are minded to vote for May's deal. Sounds like they are prepared to live with the backstop and the UK being a vassal state after all then, rather than let the people confirm that they want that rather than to have a voice in EU rules and regulations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 06:58 AM

We elect MPs assuming they have a degree of integrity. At the last election both Tory and Labour candidates stood on a joint party ticket of leave the EU.
How do you explain away their sudden transmutation into staunch remainers post the election? Did they encounter kryptonite in the Commons or did grubby job security take precedence over honesty and integrity.

You talk turkeys when in reality they are canards in a feeble attempt to justify their abysmal behaviour.

We need a vote of confidence and an election and to fight the EU elections and start all over and have representatives we can trust.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 06:15 AM

The quickest way to undermine parliamentary democracy is to wrestle away from its remit the most crucial issue in front of it since WW2 and put it into the hands of over forty million unelected individuals whose credentials are entirely unchecked and which in most cases wouldn't bear close examination (next time you're down the pub, ask a random handful of people what a customs union is). You can then compound this error by staging a six-month campaign of lies before putting it to a ballot giving a binary choice expressed in crudely simplistic terms.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again: the decisions in Parliament to hold the referendum and enact Article 50 were made by a body of MPs which overwhelmingly supports staying in the EU. They voted the way they did because they were put in the position of a turkey being forced to choose one of two kinds of Christmas: allow the UK to make the disastrous exit from the EU but keep your job, or oppose the referendum/Article 50 in the interests of the country and lose your job. So, with few exceptions, they decided to do politics in the face of a populist surge kicked off by Cameron instead of putting the interests of the country first. And, if it ever comes to a vote on whether to revoke Article 50, which everyone with more than one brain cell knows is the only sane solution to this, they'll do the same again. It has nothing to do with "respecting the will of the people" or "refusing to betray democracy" and everything to do with keeping their jobs. And that is the ultimate disrespect for the people of this country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 05:41 AM

We all had a giggle over the cartoon depicting a lorry leaving Fishguard to be confronted with two adjacent road signs reading "You are now leaving Fishguard" and "Please join this queue for The Channel Tunnel"

and of course the returning traffic carrying 40% of the food to Claire will face the exact same problems- THAT should wipe the smirk off your face!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 05:34 AM

For the Tory party leadership contests Tory MPs select two candidates for the membership to vote for.
The monarchy appoints the party leader of the major party to be PM.
The PM selects ministers.
The majority party forms the government, or failing a majority a coalition. That is democracy.
For the rank and file backbenchers of both parties to commandeer Parliament for their own nefarious purposes breaks both convention and democracy.

You can try and explain it away however you like but the process betrays democracy, the same as overturning the referendum results.
Bliar Blair should be charged with treason for conspiring with the EU against the clearly stated wishes of the UK majority.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 05:15 AM

Last night I spoke to a Northern Ireland friend who moves regularly between the Republic and the Six Counties
The discussion centred on the problem of driving licences, Green cards and the steady destabilisation of North Eastern businesses - and that's before Britain has made up its mind whether it wants a divorce and whether they are prepared to pay the alimony for the human and social damage it is going to cause both sides of the border
The damage it is going to cost Britain is apparently not worth a thought by them at the helm of the rudderless boat that Brexit now is recognised as
We all had a giggle over the cartoon depicting a lorry leaving Fishguard to be confronted with two adjacent road signs reading "You are now leaving Fishguard" and "Please join this queue for The Channel Tunnel"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 05:05 AM

Just for the moment, I am not talking about Brexit specifically, but how our system works in terms of democracy.

We agree, I hope, that MPs are elected based on the democratic choice of the constituents of their seat? True, safe seats and other forms of bias make this less clear cut than we might wish, but I think we can grant MPs are democratically elected.

Party leaders are elected by members of the respective party, but not by the public at large. This is a very weak form of democracy because the vast majority of the country is excluded by virtue of not being members of that party.

The government is appointed by the PM, which is normally the party leader. So while the MPs are democratically elected their appointment to a ministry is not democratic at all. Most recently - accelerating massively under Tony Blair - unelected "special advisors" have been given roles in government, completely excluding any democratic component.

So in my book, it is pretty clear that the Parliament is democratically elected but the government is not.   For that reason, sovereignty lies in Parliament, not government. Put another way, when asked whether the government's role is to serve Parliament, or Parliament's role is to serve government, I go with the former.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 04:23 AM

History reveals that all empires have a time span, the European empire, imo is no different, it may prolong its lifetime by making internal reforms but its days are numbered.
However, the UK leaving right now, is imo going to leave toimmediate hardship for many in the uk and western europe, we have a choice between european multi national capitalism and non european multinational capitalism.
if i was able to vote right now it would not be for pie in the sky, but to remain. the u will feck itself up in time but hopefully after my lifetime


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 04:07 AM

The precedent you mention is in reality the fact that the mother of all Parliaments has just whelped a devil.
A majority voted for brexit.
A majority voted for article 50
A majority of MPs stood for re-election on a party ticket of brexit.

Now the cabal of remainers have overturned the will of the executive.

If MPs can overturn the executive perhaps 17.5,000,000 brexiteers can overturn the country.

A very dangerous precedent has been set and the loser is democracy.

No matter how you wish to dress it up the will of the majority has been thwarted, as has democracy. For Britain this puts us in potentially dangerous territory.
It is a battle between nationalism and multinational driven globalism. A battle fought in America where Trump won.
    In the EU their is a chance that Macron will win, he is already bleating about Britain remaining in the EU is destroying his vision of a United States of Europe.

There is far far more at stake than simply membership of the EU.
Time a few woke up to the true agenda.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Mar 19 - 06:22 PM

So the amendment has just been passed saying Parliament will have control of the agenda on Wednesday. Depending on the mechanisms chosen to try to find a common way forward could be indecisive and just add to the confusion, but it might come up with something. But whether it does or not, I think the precident that the executive must in some circumstances be subservient to Parliament is a very good thing indeed. If there is a majority for the ruling party it has negligible effect but when either party is a minority it stops it behaving as if it had a majority. That seems right to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 06:24 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/05/12/to-properly-explain-the-eus-bendy-bananas-rules-yes-theyre-real/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 06:05 AM

Squirrelling around desperately to find and ridicule examples of arcane EU "rules" (which are generally mythological in any case when examined a bit more closely) is something I thought we'd long ago got out of our systems. EU rules and regulations are generally arrived at by consensus, and the UK has accepted over 95% of them without demur. We've abstained on some of those 5% and opposed very few. You don't achieve agreement and harmony across 28 countries by trying to bring in silly rules. Now being made to import beef pumped up with hormones and chickens still riddled with Salmonella (due to lousy husbandry) even after being washed in chlorine, IS something to worry about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 05:42 AM

Nice 'quote of the week' in this morning's Sunday Times
France's European Minister, Nathanlie Loieau, has said she's named her cat Brexit
"She wakes me up at night mewling that she wants to go out, but when I get up to open the door she stay's where she is"
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 05:22 AM

Bananas are classified by quality and size so they can be traded internationally. Quality standards are also needed so that people know what they are buying and that the produce meets their expectations.

Straight & bendy are not banned by the EU. Commission

Regulation 2257/94 identifies certain restrictions for fruits that producers have to conform to in order to sell their produce within the EU. The regulation states that bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature."

Class 1 bananas can have "slight defects of shape" and Class 2 bananas full-on "defects of shape".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 05:03 AM

" Regulation 1221/2008 took effect as of 1 July 2009. Though neither the press release cited above nor Regulation 1221/2008 made any mention of bananas or Regulation 2257/94, some reports of the changes treated them as including the banana quality standards regulation and contained explicit or apparent references to this regulation, using expressions such as "the infamous 'straight banana' ruling". Some sources have claimed this to be an admission that the original regulations did indeed ban "bent bananas", or that it was accepted that it was "a farce".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:42 AM

Bent bananas for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No._2257/94


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:41 AM

Yes, that's right, Karen.   If we take vacuum cleaners as a example, the EU rules say they will only accept certain standards. If we wanted to sell to them, we have to meet those standards. But that is a decision of the individual business: make an EU-compatible version, an EU incompatible version, or both. As an EU member, it is possible the rules restricted what we could manufacture - I really don't know. Outside the EU, we could certainly manufacture both if we wished.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:30 AM

"If a given set of standards is acceptable to the EU and our businesses are set up to work to those standards, why not follow them until you come up with something you like better?"

My understanding is that unless lots of things meet EU standards you cannot sell them to the EU. So if the 'standards' you like better are lower standards you have to give up selling that product to the EU.

There were certainly objections to EU standards. I remember the BBC doing a programme about standards for vacuum cleaners which were supposed to forbid super powerful cleaners and they found some UK businesses which claimed they could not function as businesses without such super powerful cleaners. There was one story after another purporting to demonstrate the 'madness' of EU standards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:22 AM

I should add that option (b) is the approach we have largely taken to leaving so far. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 brought a significant amount of EU law into UK law, so we have adopted it and once we leave we will continue follow it, but are free to change it at a later date. It is also what Teresa May is offering Labour - incorporate the current workers' rights etc into UK law, and as new EU laws are proposed the UK Parliament would consider whether to adopt them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM

That's more a matter of definition that actuality, stanron. There are at least two other ways of leaving without following the WTO rules. The first has not been explicitly talked about as far as I know, but it is real and to some extent a few of the proposals are based on this.

a) You could leave and not choose to follow WTO rules.
Philosophically, if you object to the EU because you don't want to have rules set by a remote organisation whose democratic accountability you think very dubious, then it makes little sense to move to one which is even more remote and has no democratic accountability at all. But practically, the enforcement of WTO rules is ultimately set by a court and Trump is refusing to appoint the US representative to it. So in practice, the court cannot sit and the rules cannot be enforced. Some of the issues around Northern Ireland arise because of WTO rules. If you decided to ignore the rules it actually eases some of the problems.

So leaving and not following the WTO rules fully is undoubtedly a huge risk and potentially has great long term costs, but it is theoretically possible.

b) What was proposed during the referendum.
I expect everyone remembers the famous 'easiest deal in history' quotation. If you read the stuff around it, the idea was that initially the UK would follow the EU rules *voluntarily*, not by *legal obligation*, and then over time adapt them to something more in line with our wishes. If a given set of standards is acceptable to the EU and our businesses are set up to work to those standards, why not follow them until you come up with something you like better? There is some sense in this, and had it been possible to continue to trade with the EU on this basis, it would have been far better than the WTO rules. We were unable to negotiate the joint recognition of standards bodies this would need.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 03:21 AM

WTO rules is the only way of actually LEAVING the European Union. Every little bit of a deal we do ties us to the European Union and it's rules. The reason remainers talk of taking 'Crashing Out' off the table is because they do not want to leave at all and 'Crashing Out' is the only way to truly leave. You talk about leaver's lies but this is the biggest lie of all. Taking 'Crashing Out' off the table really means NOT leaving at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM

The Praying Mantis's days look numbered according to news reports this morning. The suggestions as to who may take over from her however - her current effective-deputy, David Lidington, or The Lying Scottish Viper - look equally unattractive.

Failed former-Brexit minister, David Davis, also seems to be calling for a 'WTO Outcome' (A.K.A. 'No-deal crash-out'). From disaster to absolute disaster!

You really couldn't make this debacle up, could you? Still, on the plus side, at least by so debasing ourselves, we've given the EU27 a bloody good laugh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 02:04 PM

I wasn't at the march, because I don't think a referendum is the best way out, either in terms of political stability or avoidance of manipulation. It the Revocation movement had started a week earlier, and the march has been more definitely about that, I would have.


But there were some good posters. My favourite was "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is starting to look a good idea."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 09:03 AM

But no response to the, British hard border. Now ain't that a surprise!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 08:19 AM

London streets jammed up with protesters demanding a second referendum
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 07:40 AM

Of course not all US citizens think alike, I should have made this clear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 07:37 AM

It's partly I think to do with US dislike of European social models. They prefer tea parties and so on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM

"Free trade" deal with the US? This is the protectionist Trump we are talking about. Even under Obama, who wasn't quite as bad, the terms of trade deals looked bleak, this was one reason some wanted to come out of the EU, the TTIP deal. Bad news for many decent domestic policies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM

The US have now stated that there will be no free trade agreement if Britain opts for a hard border

Care to show us all where Britain has suggested a hard border? Is it your acute anglophobia showing or simply an inability to understand simple text?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 05:59 AM

Huh. Devon and Cornwall Police. Nicked two people for driving too slow after they nicked ME for driving too fast a couple of weeks ago. Make your minds up, plod! :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 05:32 AM

More good news for the Brexit fiasco
The US have now stated that there will be no free trade agreement if Britain opts for a hard border
Chew on that one folks
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 04:52 AM

It is just possible, you know, that a person might care more about Parliament working to the rules of centuries than whether he or she gets a peerage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 03:38 AM

Some good news from the brexit fiasco. The tories are going to break with centuries of tradition and field a candidate against the speaker come the next election. I suspect no peerage on his departure either! How sad!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 02:20 AM

One thing easily overlooked in that article, KarenH, is the numbers of drivers involved :

Devon and Cornwall Police said it had stopped the convoys on the A30 and M5 and prosecuted the two lead drivers of both convoys for careless and inconsiderate driving.

or again

he Nottinghamshire Brexit go slow protest along the M1 this evening - eight vehicles took part flanked by police cars

We all know how a single breakdown on a motorway can lead to very long tailbacks. So while the disruption may be very significant for any such action, it only takes a handful of people to cause it. Yet, because of the way media works, it is likely to get as much attention as today's march with hundreds of thousands of attendees.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 01:02 AM

To back up what I said about potential civil unrest, there are reports of tailbacks on motorways deliberately caused by Brexiters.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6840679/Furious-Brexiteers-cause-traffic-chaos-country-organise-lorries-block-motorways.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 12:38 AM

What got me about Theresa May's speech to the nation was her statement that she understood that 'I' was worried about the NHS and the state of schools. I am, but mainly because of the tax and welfare state and educational policies of her government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 12:25 AM

@ SPB: I can see where you are coming from, but the problem with asking the people of the UK what they want is that they are divided, as the close referendum result shows. Not only that but EU sceptics are not an undivided set, and split on the basis of what they hope to get out of leaving. Here's hoping that your relationship survives whatever happens.

Some hoped (foolishly) for an end to the welfare state cutbacks imposed by this government funded by a reduction in EU paymentsm, whereas others don't much like the welfare state.

I should think that if the government seriously felt there was a chance of revoking Article 50 it would have plans to deal with social unrest caused by that, as suggestions have been made that this would cause some leavers to react.

I don't see any way to a happy ending at the moment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 09:38 PM

The identity of the person who originates an online petition is not too significant. It's worth remembering that the biggest ever online petition in the UK back in 2016 was set up before the referendum was held. It called for a second referendum to give people a chance to think again, if the winning side failed to reach 60% in a turnout of 75%.

The petition got 4,150,260, even more than the Revoke Article 50 one (though with 3,885,883 already this could easily get more before it's through.

And the person who originated it? A leaver, one Oliver Healey. He set it up before the vote, on the assumption that the Brexit option would be rejected the first time through. In the event of course Leave left, though with only 52% of a turn out of only 72%. He complained that the petition had been hijacked after the referendum by leave voters, who shared what on the face of it was Mr Healey's understanding of how democracy should work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 06:18 PM

Leave means Leave march

It is heartening, in its way, that "Leave"'s style of setting off and doing things with minimal planning has not deserted it. I particularly liked

On its second day, plans to cross the River Tees by the famous Transporter Bridge had to be abandoned when the group arrived only to find the bridge did not operate on Sundays.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 05:26 PM

I don't remember the referendum voting slip consenting to allow the goverment any emergency powers in the event of civil unrest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 05:02 PM

They do not call them remainiacs for nothing. It appears the instigator of the revoke article 50 petition is a raving loony.

https://order-order.com/2019/03/22/revoke-article-50-petition-creator-threatened-may-discussed-buy-legal-guns-take-commons/

"The creator of the petition is a certain Margaret Anne Georgiadou, who went on LBC to discuss the petition this afternoon. Now Guido can reveal a series of shocking posts from her on Facebook where she makes repeated death threats against Theresa May. She even discusses in detail with fellow Remainers how to purchase “legal” guns and go to the House of Commons.

In January, Georgiadou wrote about how she hoped that May would kill herself. In two further comments that now appear to have been deleted, she described May (or possibly Andrea Leadsom) as a “creature” that “needs putting down” and threatened to shoot May “point blank”.

I wonder what Mr Plod makes of all this?
The leftards keep strange company!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 04:49 PM

Here it is

That manages to disturb me in two quite distinct ways simultaneously. It is disturbing it is being done at all, though I expect to hear a casual "we need to prepare for all eventualities" as if this was not important.

But it also disturbs me in the diametrically opposed way. If you seriously think the risk of rioting or worse is real, and presumably there is little reason to think one urban area will differ greatly from another, 3500 staff will go nowhere. I am not sure how exactly you would define a small town, but that the UK has 350 or so seems plausible. So that's ten each. So it manages to be too many and far too few at the same time, depending on your point of view.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 04:28 PM

Could someone please link to the article in the Guardian entitled 'Secret Cabinet Office document reveals chaotic plannning for a no deal Brexit'

I cannot be alone in finding this deeply concerning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 01:58 PM

Bonnie,

EU is asking the wrong questions. if they are competent, then they should have realised by now that May is not a fit and proper person to negotiate on behalf of the UK, and likewise the members of party she belongs to are putting self-interest before that of their country.

EU shoud be making far more of an effort to find out what the people of the UK want. If it is not pratical to consult with the entire UK population indiviually, then to at least talk to each elected representative.

For the last two and a half years the outcome of the referendum has badly affected my personal well-being, particularly that neither party (EU or UK) have made a legally binding guarantee that there will be no impact on the ability of my long-term partner from Prague and myself to continue to enjoy our long-distance relatkonship, and make a decision in the future to live together without having to satisfy racist conditions. I resent us being discriminated against in favour of those who have been able to reside previously and not be entitled to the same opportunities. I resent that people who have benefited from the right to study, work, retire in other EU states are selfishly denying others the same right on the future. I resent those that have benefited from funding from cohesion and structural funds to improve their lives are denying the same for people who are individually disadvanteged, or live in socially and economically deprived communities. All this is just the tip of the iceberg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 09:21 AM

Remainiacs are seriously sick puppies!


https://order-order.com/2019/03/22/sick-remainers-produce-commemorative-tea-towel-dead-brexiteers/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 09:08 AM

You pollute every thread you post to with your childish nastiness - time to grow up

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 02:57 PMMake up your fucking mind you mad fascist
You really are the Full Monty as far as right wing extremism goes

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 06:56 PM
Try not to talk to people and remember you are a mental midget Iaians
People with far more knowledge and experience have had their fingers burned on this forum by forgetting their place.


Jim Carroll
Insulting someone's intelligence is, in my opinion, worse than insulting them personally. "


Date: 27 Feb 17 - 03:33 AM
Will you kindly fuck off with your arrogant ranting - it impresses nobody.

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 27 Feb 17 - 04:29 AM
Are yuo a racist or what (rheororical question - of course)
you seem to just exist up your own arse and you're not even good at it, having stolen most of it from elsewhere, like your claimed knowledge of socialism
Jim Carroll

Piss off you pair of racist pricks
Jim Carroll
At present, you are displaying all the belligerent thuggery and potential menage I associate with the racism you are displaying.
Jim Carroll
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 30 Dec 18 - 05:57 AM

"I think only you respond to his nonsense now, Jim."
Had enough of allowing an abusive poster fucking up threads

Jim
I have gone out of my way to be as polite as possible on these threads - all the personal abuse has come from elsewhere



and just what point is rattling roaring jimmie trying to make??
The sour little scouser needs to look in a mirror!


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