BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 11:45 AM

”You can’t fix stupid”

A perfect analysis of this entire, farcical debacle of BrexShit. And not one example given in this thread of a tangible benefit to be gained by leaving the EU. Even the most bone-headed Mudcat Brexshiteer is beginning to call for revocation of A50, and for the UK to remain in the EU.

You couldn’t make it up!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/06/a-shambles-on-which-the-sun-never-sets-how-the-world-sees-brexit

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 12:19 PM

UKIP counsellors now calling for 'ramainers' to be executed for treason.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 12:58 PM

Funny that some who seem to think that a second referendum is undemocratic keep quiet about May's multiple votes on the same topic. Doesn't surprise me of course, given the circumstances.

As it happens, I thoroughly disagree with referendums anyway. The first was brought about because pig-sticker Cameron didn't have the balls to stand up to the right wing. The second (well, third really) could well happen because May thinks more about keeping her party in power than doing the right thing and undoing this monumental cock up. Still, if nothing else, it is showing up the Tories and their supporters on here for the uncaring, selfish twats they really are.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 01:03 PM

”UKIP counsellors now calling for 'ramainers' to be executed for treason.”

BrexShit-Bumpkins have been doing that ever since the referendum. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been told by spittle-flecked Gammon Brexshiteers , with the veins in their necks bulging and eyes almost popping out of their sockets that, as anRemain voter, Im a ‘traitor’ who ‘should be arrested, marched out, and shot for treason’.

If they had brains, they’d be dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 01:21 PM

And THIS makes absolute sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 01:26 PM

"Oh Dear! The leftards are losing it."
Oh dear - the brain-deads are beginning to feel inferior again
I notice that the abuse to elected politicians which, I was told, was "Anglo-phobic" - has now moved on from its racist wallowing black mammals
You win some, you win some
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 01:57 PM

Any good news about Brexit yet .................?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:04 PM

10/10 for consistency, Raggy, but I think we already know the answer:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:07 PM

"It is the abbacus this week, abbopotomus last week."

You've been told about this before, and the fact that you indulged in this appalling insult before, let alone think you can get away with doing it again, marks you out as easily the most disgusting and detestable presence on this forum. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. And don't think for one second that this will lead me into any kind of bantering with you. This is quite likely to be your swansong here.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:11 PM

There seems to be a pretty widespread consensus in favour of just getting things sorted. But what doesn't seem to have got through to a lot of people is that any deal that got approved would just mean it all goes on like this for years and years as they keep "negotiating" the nuts and bolts. (The same would also undoubtedly be true with No Deal.)

The only way to be done with it all would be to revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU.

The europhobes could console themselves by recognising how very annoying this would be to ordinary people all over Europe who've been watching this shambles in mounting horror and with escalating derision.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:19 PM

Fingers, and everything else, crossed McG.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:25 PM

Dave, I have not, as yet, had a reasonable response to this question from any Brexiteers.

If they can believe in Unicorns then surely I can live in hope?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:33 PM

Steve
He's a racist twat who keeps lying by asking for proof
I once joked that he was a mental midget - first impressions are always the most trustworthy
If teh mods are happy to see this forum used as a hate site, there's little we can do about it other than to point out his uncontrollable racism
Tommy Robinson must have got his Iron Cross ready for presentation by now - leave him to parctice his arm-raising
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:41 PM

I thought this thread was supposed to be about BrexShit?

BrexShit was the brain-child of The Bullingdon-Buffoon Ça-Moron, a referendum conceived in the interests of nothing more than Conservative party unity and preventing UKIP taking votes away from them. The Tories have, until a week or so ago, taken complete ownership of BrexShit - indeed they refused to make it a cross-party project right back at the beginning when Jeremy Corbyn offered to involve Labour in the negotiations.

So why, I wonder, does the computer-illiterate sociopath insist on trying to make it a party-political issue by posting continuous anti-Labour propaganda and personal abuse - much of it racist, and possibly illegal under anti-racism laws - against individual members of the party?

The obvious answer is, of course, he’s got SFA else. And a sociopathic Troll. Best to ignore him.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:16 PM

re: this term 'leftard' now, i know i have mentioned this before and got nowhere - but it is really offensive. i work with disabled people who, over the years, have suffered many insults and derogatory and dismissive names. one of the worst is 'retard' Thankfully, it is a horrible term that we never hear in decent conversation anymore. clearly the term as used here is a mix of lefty and retard. i have asked before about people (well, iain) using the term but the mods seem quite happy with it.

please, could any mod come on here and justify tolerating such hateful language from a contributor with absolutely nothing positive to contribute.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:33 PM

and while i'm here does anyone have any financial expertise? as my dad died last year and we sold his house, i have some money for the first time in my life (about 30K) (obviously, he voted to leave and then died while his family all disagreed and voted positively) anyway, as it seems we are about to leave in some turmoil or at least be in some state for a while - what should i do with me money? we've thought of moving to estonia or glasgow or italy to be nearer family but we have some commitments here (or lack the courage) can i just buy euros and bank them abroad? (my default plan is to marry virgil van dyke (i must have a need for security) and get a dutch passport and live off his money but that could be difficult eh?)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:35 PM

"wallowing black mammals"
Your descrioption - nobody else's
I've just requested that a friend on this forum complain about this behavior - I would extend that to all here - he has no intention of stopping his attempts to make this a hate platform
I have Irish friends who stopped posting to this site because of the anti-Irish racism emanating from a few posters
It was mild compared to this filth
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:40 PM

You can get a Euro account with a UK bank, I have one with Barclays. I keep thinking I will move some cash from my sterling accounts to my Euro account, but then I think the exchange rate cannot get worse. Then of course it does. To think, if it hadn't been for Gordon Brown, we could have gone in at 1.6!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:56 PM

thanks, i think i will do that. but i'd better be quick as my local santander branch is about to close

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 03:08 PM

But about May, I am confused, slightly. Did she not herself vote Remain? And did not the guy in charge at the time run like a hare, leaving Brexit in her lap? And hasn't May, in contrast, been staunch in her efforts to do *what the voters said they wanted*? Why isn't anyone (seemingly) blaming those voters?
Oh, and I'm a Mrrican, not from UK or Europe myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 04:20 PM

May's priority throughout has been trying to find some way of holding the Conservative Party together. All the rest is just flannel.
......

It's not wholly fair to put all the blame for the referendum of 2016, and for it being designed in such a stupid way (eg, no requirement for a 5% majority) on David Cameron. The vote to hold it was backed by all political parties in Westminster apart from the SNP.

Of course he carries all the responsibility for breaking his repeated promise to stay on if Remain lost till a successor was found, and skkedaddled the next day. That's why we got saddled with a coronation for May.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 04:31 PM

you could say 'holding the conservative party together' and i'm sure that's true. you could also say scared of grubby little fascists like farage and yaxley - lennon and the lunatic fringe of her own party. very few in politics - including the labour party -has had the courage to stand up to these people. i know this is not easy since the death of jo cox, but it should have happened long ago. remember the opening ceremony of the london olympics? what happened to that positive picture of who we are?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 04:47 PM

Your Virgil idea was the best one, Pete. What a man. WHAT a man! But he loves his mum (honest), so you may have to get past her first...

30 grand could give you an awful lot of security. You can get a risk-free ISA with 20 grand of it with Coventry Building Society, fixed rate for five years, at 2.15%. And they are ethical. The other ten grand, maybe do up your place, get a better car and have a nice holiday or two.

Kevin, the reason Labour MPs (etc) voted in favour of a referendum, then in favour of Article 50, was that they would have been toast if they hadn't. There was a burgeoning wave of UKIP-led populism to contend with, so they yielded. Plus they had a severely mistaken inkling that it didn't matter in the first case because they were certain that remain would win.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 04:49 PM

well, i've been quite disciplined for long enough but now i think i just don't have to put up with this offensive shit.

mods? where are you? or is blatant racism and insulting disabled people ok?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 04:51 PM

Now 'scuse me, chaps, as I have to pen a letter to the mods about this bloke. I understand that they don't normally bother with Brit threads but I think they could consider bothering with this one. It would be good to think that I wasn't the only one doing it. Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 05:23 PM

you aren't on your own, steve. however, are you suggesting that VvDyke's mam would not be proud to have a 63 year old jags fan in the family? i'm insulted. again

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 05:37 PM

Bugger that, Pete. I've considered the same move meself and I'm 67! Can't make up my mind whether my numero uno hero is Beethoven...or Virgil...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 06:49 PM

ivor cutler? though he isn't a great marriage prospect....

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 07:02 PM

All kinds of plausible reasons, Steve, as there are for most mistakes. But for all that, it turned out to be a bad misjudgement. Didn't do anything to stop UKIP. At the very least they could have made support for the referendum dependant on some sensible ground rules.

There was a petition that got a few million votes at the time, calling for a guarantee of a second vote to be triggered if the winning sides margin was less than 5% and the turnout less than 75%. It was started by a Leave supporter before the referendum (who expected to lose) but was signed by millions of Remainers as well as Leavers. That would have been a very sensible requirement.

And the example of the Scottish referendum should have been followed - that achieved a turnout of over 80%, with voting open to everyone of 16 up, including migrants from the EU - the people who stood to be most affected by the result in 2016, along with logterm British expats in Europe, who were also denied a vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 02:45 AM

Britain poised for authoritarianism

While it is never a idea to take any survey too literally especially when looking at the exact percentages, this one does seem to raise a genuine concern. Parliament has certainly not covered itself in glory for a long time and, while you might pick out different things depending on which you side of the referendum you choose, there are plenty of things that are problematical. Trump, whatever your view of him, is not a eule-follower and there is no reason at all the UK could not end up with someone in power even less concerned with the rules. Brexit is certainly a mechanism that could be exploited to assist them.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 04:22 AM

Many thanks to whoever cleaned up the mess. It must have been a dirty job and your efforts are much appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 04:31 AM

Seconded. It would be good if we just didn't mention him at all and even better if we just ignore any new posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 04:33 AM

I will second that. The thread is supposed to be about brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 04:39 AM

Shhh, everybody...

I'm predicting that we won't leave the EU. I don't know why I think that...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 04:51 AM

"I'm predicting that we won't leave the EU. I don't know why I think that..."
Hope springs eternal Steve
At the rate things are moving, I doubt if many of us will be around to see it happen - our legacy to our grandchildren, may their god help them
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 04:51 AM

You could be right, Steve. I had the idea that the whole negotiation fiasco was a charade to ensure we stay in the EU without the Tories losing face. They are trying to figure out a way to blame someone else for their cock up. Up to now they seem to be failing on that front as well. We can but hope :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 04:58 AM

I have just watched a Royal Institution programme on mathematical errors (I know, I know) and, for a couple of examples (one on lei lines and one on people being photographed as a child with a future spouse in the background) it talked about something closely linked to confirmation bias. Anyway, the salient point applies to Brexit, even though it was not mentioned in the lecture:

You cannot demonstrate a no-deal is working by pointing to examples where is has worked (or, for example, how well prepared the civil service is). What you have to show is the paucity of examples where it has not worked (eg how few people who are not civil servants are unprepared.)

I thought it worth making that clarification at the start of this week where something or nothing might finally happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 09:00 AM

"ERG refusenik Mark Francois has written to Graham Brady, Chairman of the 1922 Committee, calling for an “informal ‘Indicative Vote'” on Theresa May’s leadership of the Conservative Party. The rules say that formal votes initiated by letters to the 1922 Committee chairman can only take place once a year…

The letter doesn’t hold back, beginning with “Enough is enough! If she goes by Wednesday we can Leave on Friday.” It ends with “she said ‘I will continue to serve fior as long as you wish me to’, it is now time to test that wish.”

What a fine fellow!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 10:18 AM

Daniel Finkelstein, the Conservative peer and Times columnist, made this comment on Politics Live Andrew Bridgen, but I am sure he believes it applies to all the Brexiteers in Parliament:


You have not got the votes in parliament. It is really hard dealing with this, because it seems to me so daft, to use a polite word for it. You can’t get no-deal through parliament because 400 MPs are against it. It doesn’t matter who the leader of the Conservative party is. This is not about Theresa May. And one of the reasons you failed to get rid of her last time you pointlessly made a vote of no confidence in her, that just resulted in strengthening her for a year, is that getting rid of her would make no difference. And it is failing to appreciate that that has meant that you have over-played your hand, over and over again, and are going to end up possibly with a second referendum on a soft Brexit, and possibly a Corbyn government thrown in. The tactical stupidity of this is breathtaking

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 10:50 AM

I never thought I’d draw pleasure from agreeing with a Tory Lord, but when Finkelstein told the obnoxious Bridgen the truth on PL today, I could have kissed him (almost...)!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 12:14 PM

Sorry, that shoulda bin ‘the smug, obnoxious Bridgen’.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 01:24 PM

It really doesn't matter whether the ERG vote for the deal or not, even if Theresa manages to get another vote on it. The DUP is never going to accept it - they see it as damaging their link to Britain, and losing Brexit is no threat to them. Nor is the SNP, for markedly different reasons (they see it as damaging their hopes of getting out of the Union). Which means, without the backing of at least a bunch of Labour or Liberal MPs, it could never pass, even if every single Tory came on board.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 01:25 PM

Even some hardline Tory journalists are changing their minds:

"I was a strong Brexiteer. Now we must swallow our pride and think again"

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-was-strong-brexiteer-now-we-m

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 02:04 PM

In addition to finally admitting they need to find and prepare candidates to contest the EU elections, the government also seems to think Cooper's bill will get passed today:


The Commons Leader, Andrea Leadsom, has confirmed the government is expected to bring forward a motion to extend the Brexit process. Making a business statement to MPs, she has said:

In the event the European Union (Withdrawal) (No 5) Bill receives royal assent today, the House may be expected to approve a motion relating to section one of the Bill – to seek an extension of the period specified in Article 50 (3) of the Treaty on European Union.


(I - and I imagine thousands of others - got an email from Labour two days asking if I wanted to put my name forward as a MEP candidate. I think not.)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 03:32 PM

It's passed the Lords. Graun live feed sez:

The Cooper Letwin Bill has been given an unopposed third reading in the Lords and now goes back to the Commons. The Leader of the Commons has said the government will not stand in its way and will schedule time for debate tomorrow if the Bill gets royal assent this evening. But Andrea Leadsom has denounced the Bill as a “huge dog’s dinner”.

Well, she WOULD, wouldn't she?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 05:03 PM

O course asking for an extension doesn't mean getting it. The only extension she could get is a long one - and there has to be something that could get things sorted, such as a public vote of some kind.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 07:52 PM

Well stick me in an Anderson shelter and call me shorty.
You are finally out of extensions.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 08:29 PM

(Sorry - having AWFUL hassles getting Mudcat to post stuff)

How can you possibly know that two days before the PM herself does? Europe doesn't want a SHORT extension, but have repeatedly indicated they'd be open to a flexible long one. That's been repeated in several of the E27 heads' Twitter feeds. Barnier was here (Ireland) today. He and Varadkar had this to say:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/brexit-varadkar-tells-may-of-openness-to-deadline-extension-1.3853160

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 08 Apr 19 - 08:34 PM

And that's precisely what has had the ERGs throwing tantrums. Which have all been epic fails.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Apr 19 - 03:06 AM

I'm guessing that Max has been doing some major work on Mudcat's innards - it's been like this here in The Backwoods for three weeks or more.