BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 10:49 AM

We are fully masters of our own taxation system and our own justice system
That can be refuted with just six letters: VAT (for the first part) ECJ (for the second).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 10:59 AM

This seems to be a fair summin up of THE DAMAGE DONE SO FAR AND FUTURE PROSPECTS
A little conservative maybe but I can't see much there to be seriously challenged by an open-minded person
Can't speak for the fanatics and lemmings, of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 11:02 AM

Little Englanders?
Another one posting and aiming to be as provocative and insulting as possible. This, no doubt, is in order to hide the opinions he is presenting as fact.

The power of veto is going the way of the dodo. Performing an ostrich impersonation does not make this inevitability go away.
unelected bureaucrats frame the legislation, the european parliament votes on it. Majority voting is coming whether you admit it or not.
What happens to your veto when the EU parliament accepts majority voting?
Yesterday they talked about it, tomorrow they implement it and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Next parliament will be disbanded as an anachronism-who needs a second franking machine for legislation formulated and passed elsewhere?
Clearly stated goals:
Common foreign policy
Common taxation
Common defense force
end result federalism.

Time to wake up.
This is no longer a common market- that was merely an early stepping stone. Each successive step signs away more and more sovereignty.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 11:28 AM

As I said fanatics and lemmings
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 12:38 PM

Only fanatics and lemmings would follow the direction of the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 01:03 PM

Indeed Stanron. They seem to think the way we voted is exemplified by a game of pin the tail on the donkey. Remainers may be lemmings and fanatics but we valiant brexiteers are not so easily banboozled by the EU flim flam. We can see through the propaganda and can envisage the final destination. We want no part of it.
Have you ever seen a rational reason posted for staying in the EU?

Neither have I - They do not exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 01:29 PM

"Only fanatics and lemmings would follow the direction of the EU."
The EU works if you realise you are part of a Confederation of nations
Britain has never been good with anything they couldn't dominate and bully
Youhave a few postings up an econamic estimation of wwhat has happened and is likely to happen in the future
That fact that you refuse to even acknowledge, let alone respond to it putsd you were you are in the lemming or what category
Do you really not care beyond reeling out meaningless rhetoric
You respond to less facts than Theresa May did - I really never thought that possible
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 01:35 PM

" We want no part of it."
Seems like your stuck with it until Ireland says otherwise

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 02:13 PM

I am confident the teapot has been told to take a hike!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 02:49 PM

"Only fanatics and lemmings would follow the direction of the EU."
The EU works if you realise you are part of a Confederation of nations
Britain has never been good with anything they couldn't dominate and bully
That last sentence seems to epitomise Germany, not the UK. The UK are the ones who always seem willing (even now) to stand up to the bullies.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 03:11 PM

what! do we ever stand up to the USA, the world's biggest bullies by any measure. we are their poodle. ffs

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 03:22 PM

WEll, Nigel, EU countries are free to set their own rates of VAT, and, after all, we cheerfully embraced its precursor. As for the ECJ, give me a list of domestic legal cases that ever had ECJ judgements that trumped our own courts. Take your time now.

With the ECJ, as well as things like the European Commission, you little Englanders want us all to think that these are somehow foreign and alien forces controlling us. They are not. We have an influential say in how these institutions are formulated and run. As a larger EU nation, possibly more say than most other countries. If you really want to make a case for how these things adversely affect us (and good luck with that) you'd better start confronting us with facts instead of your xenophobia.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 04:32 PM

Remainiacs speak only of appeasement. No moral fibre or backbone.

Ireland fought for her freedom, we are merely negotiating for ours. Yet they would attempt to hold us to ransom.

Good to see the brexit buster ship Celine still spends most of its time between Immingham and Zeebrugge. Obviously brexit bustin costs more money. Little leo will regret being the EU's useful idiot.

It is anticipated, according to some, that tax harmonization will wipe out 14% of Ireland's GDP. Young leo will not be smirking then.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 05:03 PM

WEll, Nigel, EU countries are free to set their own rates of VAT, and, after all, we cheerfully embraced its precursor.
More utter tosh plucked from thin air.
If we are free to set our own VAT rates we could do away with (or reduce to Nil) the VAT on tampons. This is not a control that we have.
Fortunately that tax is already at the 'reduced rate'(5%).
As far as the 'standard rate' (currently 20% in UK) is concerned.
Under EU law: Each country has a standard rate which applies to most supplies. This cannot be less than 15%.
This can be found on the EU's own website: Here by selecting the down arrow under "Standard rate".

But if you wish, please continue living in your own little imaginary land where facts are thing which shouldn't intrude into your own wishful thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 05:19 PM

Great show of Brexit here Nigel
A pathologically homophobic racist bigot and two tortoises who pop back in their shells whenever someone asks them a challenging question
Any view on the economic report I put up ?
Didn't think so
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 06:11 PM

Nigel, the fact that we could have VAT at 15% if we wanted, yet set it at 20%, appears to have eluded you. Your complaint is bullshit and you know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 06:19 PM

A friend of mine committed suicide yesterday.

She had been depressed for a very long time, but with a good job and somewhere to live, she could hope it might pass.

With her career trashed after every firm that might have employed her driven out of the UK, that hope was gone.

Thank you for being with us as long as you could, Lisa.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 06:36 PM

Christ, Jack, that's terrible. I've been very close to two suicides in my life and I can actually say that I know how you must be feeling. Can't remember where I read it now,
but I read that about two people in five claim that brexit has affected their mental health. I'm not surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 03:52 AM

A pathologically homophobic racist bigot and two tortoises who pop back in their shells whenever someone asks them a challenging question

Come on moderators. Delete this insulting idiot's ramblings before he terminates yet another thread

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 04:09 AM

If you choose to use the racist and homophobic language of fascist boot-boys on open forum you should not be surprised iof it gets mentioned in protest
Your attack on other races, cultures and ehnic groups has become a permanent pat of your postings
If you object to it being mentioned stop doing it
Stop posting racist and homophobic terms like "teapot" and bog-trotter, really doesn't get more difficult than that
As for "tortoise" little more than banter and far less insulting than most of what we have had to put up from you for so long
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 04:48 AM

I had to look ‘teapot’ up. In my 70+ years, I’d never heard it used as a reference to a homosexual man, let alone as a derogatory term for such a person. Having said that, I don’t use any sort of derogatory terms with regard to LGBTQ+ people - I have respect for them as fellow-humans, self-respect, and standards below which I refuse to allow myself to sink.

Probably an indication of the sewers the kind of people who use those kinds of terms inhabit, and which I stay well clear of.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 05:28 AM

Y'mean like Boris Johnson referring to gay men as tank-topped bum boys...

Still, some people will defend anything...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 05:34 AM

" I’d never heard it used as a reference to a homosexual man, "
I had to be told what it meant when this homophobe first used it
I have learned since that is has become a popular hate term ever since homosexuality had become recognised as an perfect natural state
Homophobia, like anti-antisemitism has instigated mass murder within my lifetime
I'm not about to let present dat hate-merchants scrawl it over our walls without comment
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 05:40 AM

"You are homophobic and I'm not!" is not actually a good argument against Brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 05:47 AM

Teapot is simply a play on words of Taoiseach as you very well know. You are simply looking for something to be outraged over so you can vomit your usual bile. I suspect you are the closet homophobe by the way you latch onto the word every time you can.
Homosexuality is not a disease you know. It is something you are born with like the colour of your skin or eyes. With people like you around probably most homosexuals would wish they had been born otherwise, in order to escape the continuing prejudice. Shame on you!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 06:06 AM

"Teapot is simply a play on words of Taoiseach as you very well know"
Teapot is a homosexual trope as you well know
Protests against its use in the past have elicited that fact - it has taken this long for you to drum up this excuse
Immaterial anyway - it is one of several of your regularly used hate phrases - againstr blacks, who you describe as wallowing African Mammals, Travellers who you describe as thieves and Irish who you describe as moronic bog-dwelling killers

"Pathological definition"
"being such to a degree that is extreme, excessive, or markedly abnormal"
Which sums upi your behaviour here
If you object to our drawing attention to your behaviour, I suggest you go and sort yourself out

I suggest we leave this discssion here; we've already given this feller too much 'oxygen of publicity'
Stet
Jim Carroll
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 06:34 AM

Sorry to read that, Jack. I have known a few suicides over the years and there are never the right words.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 07:06 AM

Well, Stanron, maybe not, but you'd have an uphill struggle trying to disconnect the xenophobia and tribalism generated by brexit from rising intolerance with regard to minorities. From HuffPost today. Hate crime has more than doubled in the last six years. Their figures:

"Types of hate crimes 2018/19

Transgender hate crimes – up 37%
Sexual orientation hate crimes – up 25%
Disability hate crimes – up 14%
Race hate crimes – up 11%
Religious hate crimes – up 3%
Of the 8,566 hate crime offences based on religion, just under half (47%) were targeted against Muslims, while 18% were against Jewish people.

Data published on Tuesday showed that 103,379 hate crimes were documented in 2018/19, up from 42,255 in 2012/13.

The new figures also represent a 10% spike compared to the year before.

'While increases in hate crime over the last five years have been mainly driven by improvements in crime recording by the police, there has been spikes in hate crime following certain events such as the EU Referendum and the terrorist attacks in 2017,' a Home Office report said.

Of the hate crimes recorded in 2018/19, more than three-quarters (76%) were related to race.

The number of this type of hate crime recorded last year jumped by 11% to 78,991 offences.

However, the number of offences recorded against people regarding transgender identity saw the biggest spike, rising by 37% to 2,333 offences."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 07:17 AM

The first four words will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 07:27 AM

Well, here's another four: you are in denial.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 07:31 AM

”The first four words will do.”

Which translates as, “La-la-la” (with Stan’s hands firmly clasped to his ears). Hardly an intelligent response, either as written, or in translation, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 08:51 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: Well, here's another four: you are in denial.

In denial of what though?

I don't deny that there have been hate crimes. The only definite connection between hate crimes and Brexit are chronological. They have happened in the same period of time. You may choose to believe that hate crimes are caused by Brexit but I believe you are fooling yourselves. It's a convenient belief so you conveniently accept it as true. I suspect that proof will be hard to come by.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 10:33 AM

"I don't deny that there have been hate crimes. "
Good
Thoose hate crimes have ben linked to Brexit since people began to ask people "when are you going home" the day after the result was announced
They are now approaching a totally unprecedented rise of 50% - perfectly in line with the gradual disintegration of Parliamentary democracy and the increasing warnings of civil disorder - including those contained in "Yellowhammer"
Jo Cox's murder should have been warning enough of what happened
Farages's poster was a direct appeal to Britain's historical mistrust of foreigners - the same mistrust that Powell used when he was drummed out of politics
Last week's attack on a German Synagogue is an indication that the hare crowds are no longer confining their attacks to Musilims
It's about time you people acted responsibly and look at what your behaviour is doing - to other nationalities as well as British democracy
If you don't smell the toast soon the kitchen will burn down around your ears
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 11:02 AM

Barnier has announced that any furhter proposals on Brexit must be submitted today if they are to be considered

Anybody in need of cheering up from all this gloom should look up the funeral of Shay Bradley on line
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 12:34 PM

The home office are making the link, Stanron.

Home Office say Brexit caused hate crime to spike

Do you still deny that the events are unrelated?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 01:00 PM

I think that's a bit outdated Iains
We have all been told to ignore you like a fart
None of which makes the slightest difference to your continual racist and homophobic behaviour
If you can't behave like an normal human being please stop posting
Your behaviour is getting more and more irrational
Over and out
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 01:16 PM

Another meaningless slogan to get the Brexit-Boneheads stirred up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 01:29 PM

"Another meaningless slogan to get the Brexit-Boneheads stirred up."
I suspect there are going to be a few eggy faces at the end of the month
Hope so
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 02:54 PM

The Conservatives appear to planning campaign leaflets With the 'long form' slogan: More delay, more indecision, more confusion. Leaving you and your family to pay the price.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 03:11 PM

No proof, just assertations. Here's a quote from one of your 'proofs';

"The Home Office said increases in hate crime over the last five years have been mainly driven by improvements in crime recording by the police".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 03:31 PM

Why the selective quote, Stanron? Why not give us the next line

They said there were "spikes in hate crime following certain events such as the EU Referendum and the terrorist attacks in 2017."

Why not tell us how many leave supporters have been murdered for their views?

Or how many times you have been told to "fuck off back to Poland where you belong"

Or been called a traitor who should be taken out and shot?

Or how many remain posters showed hoards of dodgy dark skinned characters waiting to come and take your jobs?

Maybe then you can tell us that brexit has nothing to do with the increase in hate crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 04:09 PM

Do you ever actually think about what you are posting? Racism does not exist because of Brexit. There was plenty of racism before 2016. It suits the Left agenda to misinterpret some genuine social concerns as racism and then campaign against it. This in itself can be read as a cause of increased racism.

It's a really clever trick. Exacerbate racism and then blame it on something you oppose. It might fool sheep.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 04:26 PM

No one has said it did not exist. Nice try Stanron but blatant straw man. Brexit has had a direct bearing on the increase in hate crime. As far as the home office figures are concerned that is factual. You don't believe it. Up to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 04:49 PM

That racism existed pre-Brexit is not being contested - it’s a fact that it did exist.

But it is also a fact that the racist nature of the Leave campaign - posters of The Man-Frog pointing at a line of refugees (as it turned out, queueing at the Slovenian border, fuck all to do with the UK), references by the same Man-Frog to ‘70 million Turks waiting to flood into the UK, vans telling foreigners to ‘go home’, demonisation of Eastern Europeans and Muslims - gave the racists, who had previously kept their racism very much in the dark for fear of transgressing the hate-speech laws, a voice, a belief that they now had freedom to express their racist views openly.

That is how Brexit and racist Brexiteers carry the burden of blame for the rapid increase in hate-crimes.

And, of course, the Brexit-Boneheads denying it won’t change the facts one iota.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 05:13 PM

Elton John seems to have a very low opinion of Brexit...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 05:45 PM

Well, Stanron, at 07.06am today I gave you a quote that I was honest enough not to edit to my advantage. Since I did that you've said that you wouldn't look at it ("first four words...") and, later, you quoted from it selectively ("The Home Office said increases in hate crime over the last five years have been mainly driven by improvements in crime recording by the police..."), dishonestly failing to continue the quote which referred to the referendum and the terrorist attacks.

I said you were in denial, and all your posts today confirm that. You make things worse by rattling on about "proof," which no-one else is doing. So here's the thing. The referendum leave campaign, cheer-led by the PM you support, dishonestly whipped up xenophobia about EU citizens with a poster promoted by his biggest ally that depicted refugees of colour, not EU jobseekers. His main slogan was about taking back control of our borders, which meant keeping foreigners out. Compounding this, your leave cheerleader has a long history of racism (piccaninnies, watermelon smiles, letterboxes, bank robbers), of homophobia (tank-topped bum boys) and of misogyny (hot totty, tottymeter, pat her on the bum and send her on her way, naturally fickle women, vote Tory and your wife will grow bigger breasts, blubbing blondes). That's your man, Stan. And argue all you like that all that stuff has nothing to do with hate crime. Well he may protest that he doesn't actively support hate crime, and he may be right. But he is the prime minister, and, as such, he is one of the leading setters of the agenda in this country. I can't prove, and don't want to, that his agenda and woeful past history has exacerbated hate crime. But your lament that we can't "prove" it is just laughable.
If the PM of this country serially acts in a thuggish and boorish manner, most sentient beings would conclude that some of that is bound to rub off and steer the whole ethos of the country in the direction of crude philistinism.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Oct 19 - 02:44 AM

"Racism does not exist because of Brexit. "
Of course it did - it's our legacy from Empire Days
Brexit took what was basically a benign racism and turned ito a POLITICAL WEAPON and we got Brexit
Powell tried the same tactic and it it failed miserably - Britain, for all its faults was a little more decent then
Where Powell failed Farage succeeded
The link between the the sharp rise in racism and the Brexit is no longer seriously disputed - NOT EVEN BY THE TORY DAILY TELEGRAPH
And it's spreading all over the planet - go look at what happened in Germany last week and even at the Bulgarian football match
The scum of our political systems have discovered Racism and Xenophobia as a stairway to the stars - they call it 'Populism'
I can't believe that any decent human being should not be worried sick about what is happening under our noses
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Oct 19 - 03:35 AM

"The Home Office said increases in hate crime over the last five years have been mainly driven by improvements in crime recording by the police".
Souldn't you have included the line that followed in order to put it in full contet Stanton Tsk-tsk -
However, it added that there had been "short-term genuine rises in hate crime" following certain events such as the 2016 EU referendum and "part of the increase over the last year may reflect a real rise in hate crimes recorded by the police".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Oct 19 - 03:50 AM

Meanwhile does anyone understand the Labour Party position on Brexit?
I suspect a general election in the near future is inevitable and one of the major parties still has no definite stance.
Good news that Antoinette Sandbach not only lost the whip but has also been de selected. Hopefully the first of many. She was elected on a brexit ticket and continually voted against the government. Very pleasant to see her get her comeuppance.
Magic grandads past is catching up with him. During an Emergency Question on Turkey in the Commons, Raab raised the importance of the role of NATO, fairly going on to remind the house about Corbyn’s prominent anti-NATO past. Thornberry began spitting feathers over Raab’s audacity to cite the past stated positions of the Leader of the Labour Party…

(As an aide-memoire for the shadow foreign secretary, her dear leader has in the past claimed NATO was set up to “promote a Cold War with the Soviet Union” and wrote a column for the Morning Star entitled “High time for an End to Nato” )

You could not make it up!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 19 - 04:43 AM

Brexit is nothing to do with the Labour Party. It’s a Tory project, begun by the Tories, who steadfastly refused to co-operate with any of the other parties to form a cross-party Brexit team.

No reason for Labour to get involved, the Tories are making a very nice bollocks of their insane project on their own. Which, of course, is why you’re busy trolling in order to draw attention away from the utter disaster the Tories, led by their Unelected Bureaucrat and his poodle-PM, are getting us into.