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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Backwoodsman 10 May 19 - 09:44 AM
Iains 10 May 19 - 09:15 AM
Steve Shaw 10 May 19 - 09:09 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 08:12 AM
DMcG 10 May 19 - 07:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 07:41 AM
DMcG 10 May 19 - 07:38 AM
Iains 10 May 19 - 07:24 AM
DMcG 10 May 19 - 06:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 06:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 05:58 AM
Steve Shaw 10 May 19 - 05:26 AM
Iains 10 May 19 - 04:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 03:54 AM
Backwoodsman 09 May 19 - 05:02 PM
The Sandman 09 May 19 - 02:24 PM
DMcG 09 May 19 - 02:17 PM
Steve Shaw 09 May 19 - 02:15 PM
Backwoodsman 09 May 19 - 11:31 AM
DMcG 09 May 19 - 08:06 AM
DMcG 09 May 19 - 01:21 AM
DMcG 09 May 19 - 01:17 AM
Iains 08 May 19 - 06:29 PM
The Sandman 08 May 19 - 05:20 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 May 19 - 03:49 PM
The Sandman 08 May 19 - 03:41 PM
Iains 08 May 19 - 03:28 AM
Backwoodsman 08 May 19 - 02:14 AM
SPB-Cooperator 07 May 19 - 07:37 PM
peteaberdeen 07 May 19 - 12:38 PM
peteaberdeen 07 May 19 - 09:47 AM
Iains 07 May 19 - 08:04 AM
DMcG 07 May 19 - 07:55 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 May 19 - 07:43 AM
David Carter (UK) 07 May 19 - 06:22 AM
Iains 07 May 19 - 05:38 AM
DMcG 07 May 19 - 05:03 AM
Iains 07 May 19 - 04:49 AM
DMcG 07 May 19 - 03:54 AM
DMcG 07 May 19 - 02:59 AM
Raggytash 06 May 19 - 03:45 PM
Iains 06 May 19 - 03:37 PM
Raggytash 06 May 19 - 03:11 PM
Iains 06 May 19 - 03:07 PM
Steve Shaw 06 May 19 - 02:26 PM
Iains 06 May 19 - 02:02 PM
Steve Shaw 06 May 19 - 11:22 AM
Iains 06 May 19 - 08:22 AM
DMcG 06 May 19 - 07:59 AM
Jim Carroll 06 May 19 - 07:12 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 May 19 - 09:44 AM

”Is Theresa May guilty of treason? Plenty of readers think so.”

And a perfect illustration of the reason why we have highly-trained lawyers and judges to debate, and make decisions on, questions of law in the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 19 - 09:15 AM

Is Theresa May guilty of treason? Plenty of readers think so. Politicians would be wise to listen up


almost a year ago

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2018/07/11/theresa-may-guilty-treason-plenty-readers-think-politicians/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 19 - 09:09 AM

From Dave's link. A spoof maybe, but these extracts are all perfectly accurate:

"Nigel Farage – armed with about as many facts as you'd find in a Harry Potter novel – interrupted, harangued and blustered his way through the entire show, cheered on by a xenophobic section of the audience...

..."It was truly wonderful to see Nigel talk over Fiona Bruce, contradict himself and tell demonstrable lies on national television.

"I mean, the way he claimed that the UK is simultaneously losing jobs to low-skilled immigrants and also depriving other countries of highly-skilled immigrants – brilliant! How Farage attempts to mask his racism beneath a rhetoric of border control is masterful.

"And then there was the WTO question from the audience. Unable to answer, Farage spouted ill-informed nonsense about trade deals which demonstrated his sheer desperation to leave the EU at any cost to the British people."

Spot on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 08:12 AM

I'll put it down to a kind heart, McG :-)

Moving on - best man toad article yet

Next episode of BBC Question Time to just be an hour of Nigel Farage masturbating

Always thought his followers were wankers. Maybe he is setting an example :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 19 - 07:43 AM

I know, I know, Dave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 07:41 AM

You should know better by now DMcG! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 19 - 07:38 AM

You claim May is passing state secrets to the Russians? In contravention of the Official Secrets Act? I.e. an actual law is being broken?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 19 - 07:24 AM

At a recent Farage rally it is reported that there were chants of "Lock her up" directed at Teresa May.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, 60 years ago May would have been tarred with the same brush as Philby Burgess and the rest of the Cambridge spies. ie. Treachery


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 19 - 06:35 AM

At a recent Farage rally it is reported that there were chants of "Lock her up" directed at Teresa May.

At least in the case of Hilary Clinton there was a possible law being broken, roughly equivalent to our Official Secrets Act.   There is no law whatever that May is being accused of breaking. A mob calling for people to be imprisoned when they have broken no law does not sound to me as if rational argument will have any effect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 06:02 AM

From a friend's Facebook page

"Today, on the impartial BBC News, we ask: are the far right really, actually racist, and when will terrorist-fellating anti-semite Jeremy Corbyn admit that he is in fact the reincarnation of Joseph Stalin? Over to our panel, consisting of Nigel Farage in his 58th BBC interview this week, Anne Widdecombe, a frantically masturbating colobus monkey, Enoch Powell's head in a jar and, to represent the Left, Margaret Hodge."

Thanks Simon :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 05:58 AM

From late last year but, seeing as he has been mentioned, still worth a mention

Revealed: the hidden global network behind Tommy Robinson

He is a more obvious crook than the man toad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 19 - 05:26 AM

Farage was shouty, rude, loud, crude and thuggish all the way through the programme. To hear him burbling on about "democracy" towards the end was positively risible. No light and all heat, the kind of steamy heat that emanates from a pile of fresh manure. Naturally, his braying, brain-dead disciples in the audience made the crowd calling for Barabbas over Jesus sound like a Women's Institute prayer meeting. Fiona is weak and arbitrary. She has to go, otherwise the programme is doomed. The icing on the cake was the UKIP bloke on Andrew Neil's programme defending Tommy Robinson. Thank God for those two epic nights of football earlier in the week.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 19 - 04:31 AM

I did enjoy question time last night.

It was more like a party political broadcast for the Brexit Party.

I can't wait for the EU elections. I might actually celebrate with my first beer in several years.

The lefties cannot attack the message so resort to their usual trick of attacking the messenger. Meanwhile the tide is turning! Brexit 30% and rising.

and below is a jolly tune to sing along to. Just substitute brexit for water!

How high is brexit Momma


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 19 - 03:54 AM

rather distorted photo of Farage

How can you tell it was distorted? Did it make him look human? :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 May 19 - 05:02 PM

Annunziata Rees-Mogg {{spit}} was standing for Farage’s BrexShit Party in our constituency. I desperately wanted to write an appropriate comment against the BrexShit Party box but, of course, that would have resulted in a ‘spoiled ballot-paper’ and my actual vote would be invalidated, so I resisted. It was a close-run thing though...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 May 19 - 02:24 PM

THE REFERNDUM WAS ADVISORY NOT LEGALLY BINDING ,iains please note


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 19 - 02:17 PM

The third way is to do both. But please consider the order carefully.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 19 - 02:15 PM

Election communication from the Brexit party received today. Large, rather distorted photo of Farage on it. It caused a terrible, apocalyptic raging row in our house. She wanted to burn it, I wanted to w*pe my b*tt*m with that image. Dammit. She won. The paper was a bit coarse anyway...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 May 19 - 11:31 AM

I’ve just completed my Postal Vote form. I was rather surprised to see that UKIP and the Brexit Party are fielding candidates - in view of their oft-repeated lie that the EU is run by ‘unelected bureaucrats’, I was under the distinct impression that they had no idea whatsoever that there was an electoral process, or that there were such people as elected MEPs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 19 - 08:06 AM

Labour's election manifesto is available here, and it makes very strange reading. It is all about what it has achieved in the EU and what its MEPs will be working for, while at the same time Corbyn says during the launch of the manifesto in a Q&A session:

====
Q: You say leave or remain are unhelpful labels. But many in your party want it to be a remain party? Is it definitely a leave party? Or could it be a remain party?
Corbyn says he fought the referendum on a remain and reform programme. But leave won.
He summarises the sort of Brexit he wants. And he says the Labour manifesto includes the option of a public vote.
====
Getting the Brexit he wants is still Brexit (even if some call it BRINO), so much of what is written in the manifesto saying what the MEPs would be doing evaporates.

The manifesto is written on the assumption we are leaving. For example, "Labour will campaign to secure the continued access to vital databases, which have helped take criminals off our streets and in the fight against terrorism" only makes sense if you have left: if we remained we would have that access.

I for one could not vote for Labour in the upcoming EU elections on the basis of this manifesto. However, I very much doubt if confirmed Leavers will either. I anticipate much of Labour's anticipated vote will move to other parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 19 - 01:21 AM

Sorry, I should have said "but that does not mean it was a lie"

That was a particularly unfortunate word to omit. My apologies, Nigel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 19 - 01:17 AM

I detect some confusion about what a lie is and is not. Being wrong is not a lie. Nigel repeatedly said we would be leaving on March 29th but he said it in good faith. It turned out not to be true, but that does mean it was a lie, just false. Equally, when Teresa May said it - at least to begin with - it was said in good faith and so mistaken, but not a lie.

Thomas Aquinas back in the middle ages said that the essential characteristic of a lie was the intention to deceive, and in my book that is right: it is about deception, not whether something is true or not. So arguably if Teresa May continued to say we would leave on March 29th after she knew we couldn't that would be a lie, but while it was said in good faith it was not.

So it boils down to whether Boris' references to the £350m were believed to be an accurate representation of the benefits or were intended to mislead. In my opinion, it was intended to mislead. In short, a lie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 19 - 06:29 PM

Having read the briefing paper 07212
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf

I draw your attention to the section highlighted in red. The legislation contained no mention of a threshold. As the referendum was "advisory" there was no necessity, it was to be treated as indicative.
Had it been as you suggest the newspapers would have been on the case like rats up a drainpipe.

The Bill does not propose a threshold for the referendum. The only referendums held in the UK where a threshold has operated were the polls in Scotland and Wales in 1978 on the question of devolution.65
Discussion of the need for some form of threshold usually arises in the context of ensuring the legitimacy and acceptance of the outcome of a referendum. Certain states require constitutional change to be validated by a special majority in a referendum. This incorporates the idea that major constitutional change is something more important than the result of ordinary elections, and therefore should be the outcome of something more than a simple plurality of the votes. The UK does not have a comprehensive written constitution and so any requirement for a threshold has to be included in the individual referendum legislation. Standard Note 2809 Thresholds in Referendums gives further details and provides comparative examples of the use of thresholds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 19 - 05:20 PM

a briefing paper 07212 was sent to all mps it said.. section 5 .the referendum was advisory it does not bind parliament or the government to act on it
section 6 says if there were any suggestion WHATSOEVER that there would be a change, such as leaving the EU A MAJOR CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE would involve A CHANGE IN THE RIGHTS OF THE CITIZENS OF THE UK then a super majority would be required, this document was sent in advance of the debate in 2015.
Iwas talking about this right at the beginning, but no one took any notice


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 19 - 03:49 PM

Things are coming home to roost for the misleader general

Date set for court case which could prosecute Boris Johnson over £350 million EU lie


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 19 - 03:41 PM

the referndum was advisory only and apparantly in viewof this had to have a two thirds majority that was the legal position so all this stuff about democracy is inaccurate, iains please check this, alot of people were misled


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 19 - 03:28 AM

Sauce for the goose and all that! More tropes from a proper newspaper.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/01/jewish-labour-activists-call-jeremy-corbyn-quit-heendorsed-book/

No doubt young Jeremy will heed Abe Lincoln's advice:

"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool, -- than to open it and remove all doubt."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 19 - 02:14 AM

Pete, instructions on making Clickable Links (‘Blue Clickies’) are in the ‘Technical Advice’ section of FAQs. Or, if it doesn’t click with you (see what I did there?), just post the link as text and others can copy and paste it into their browser’s search box.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 May 19 - 07:37 PM

I am finding it so hard not to feed he troll

Keep up the effort. It is much easier to thin out the troll droppings when people don't answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 07 May 19 - 12:38 PM

there's a very good article by john crace today about the annoying wee spiv. apologies again - does anyone have the technilogical know how to put the article on here. could be an interesting discussion piece - if the whole thing wasn't so depressing


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 07 May 19 - 09:47 AM

indeed! 'nicotine-stained man frog' has a much better tone. as does (who the f..k would support that) annoying wee spiv?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 19 - 08:04 AM

"the nicotine stained toad."
How pathetic!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 19 - 07:55 AM

Yes, I agree we should not let this divert us from core Brexit issues. There is likely to be some sort of announcement/meaningless-verbiage today about the meeting between the Tories and Labour. I expect no progress with an attempt to blame Labour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 19 - 07:43 AM

Funny old world init? I wonder what the comments on here would have been if Corbyn had said those things instead of the nicotine stained toad. Still, it all goes to divert us from the shit that the Tories have dropped us in.

Anyone found any good forecasts about brexit yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 May 19 - 06:22 AM

So you firmly support George Galloway's right to appear on Press TV?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 19 - 05:38 AM

I think the spokesman for the Board of Deputies of British Jews is stepping well outside his remit to try to dictate what media a politician can be allowed on. He is stepping down a very dangerous authoritarian road and attempting to restrict freedom of speech.
I think he needs to offer a grovelling apology before he does his cause irreparable damage.
I suspect this issue will take wings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 19 - 05:03 AM

In that article:

A spokesman for the Board of Deputies of British Jews said: "It is vital that our politicians distance themselves from conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists, including those who trade in antisemitic tropes. We would call on Nigel Farage to repudiate these ideas and to commit not to dignify oddball nasties like Alex Jones with his presence again."

====
You may dismiss it. They don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 19 - 04:49 AM

In the six identified interviews, which date from 2009 to last year, Farage, whose Brexit party is leading polls for the upcoming European elections, repeatedly uses words and phrases such as “globalists” and “new world order”, which regularly feature in antisemitic ideas.

I think the Guardian will have to do better than the above. The mud slides off effortlessly.

The Dandy and Beano could have done a better job. Words like "the", "this" and "that" regularly feature in antisemitic ideas as well.

What utter nonsense!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 19 - 03:54 AM

Nigil Fargae under fire for alleged antisemitic tropes on far right US talk show

I hope those who condemn Labour continually for antisemitism will take as hard a line with Farage. Since they always reject defences like the phrase taken out of context, or used with a specific intent rather than Wider possible interpretations, I assume they will not attempt to excuse him that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 19 - 02:59 AM

For my part, Raggy, I don't think it is sensible to regard the results for the two main parties comparable in a straightforward way, but they do have one core similarity: each is substantially worse than even pessimistic estimates beforehand. That does challenge each party to decide what to do about it. But the results do not make clear what that should be. It is a strong echo of the referendum where the majority of those who voted said 'Leave' without defining what that meant. This time they have said 'You can't carry on like this" while giving no clear message what should be done. A lot of leavers think the results show we must leave now, a lot of remainers think it means a confirmatory vote is essential. And most politicians just feel reinforced in whatever their opinion was already.

As I said below, my guess is that the EU elections will be the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 May 19 - 03:45 PM

Refer to my post of 03.11


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 19 - 03:37 PM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 06 May 19 - 03:11 PM ...........
From your post it is obvious that trying to explain it all to you would be a wasted effort. Therefore I will not bother.

What you call nonsense is an interpretation repeated by pundits everywhere. The explanations are unassailable, hence no arguments
(apart from sparky, but he would argue with his own shadow)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 May 19 - 03:11 PM

I'm a tad surprised that people have let pass the utter nonsense that has been posted on here regarding the results in the local elections.

How anyone can equate the Labour loss of 84 councillors,which is disappointing, to the catastrophic loss of 1330 Conservative councillors is amazing if only for the audacity.

Then to ignore the fact that UKip lost 145 of it's tiny 176 seats smacks of not only wearing blinkers but a eye patch and a blindfold as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 19 - 03:07 PM

A by election and a prospective parliamentary candidate for The Brexit party has nothing to do with Brexit?

What a quaint notion!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 May 19 - 02:26 PM

Which has nothing to do with brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 19 - 02:02 PM

Anyway back to matters appertaining to Brexit:

Annunziata Rees-Mogg, a former Tory parliamentary candidate and sister of Jacob Rees-Mogg, hasn’t been far from the headlines since she appeared at the launch of the Brexit Party. Ms Rees-Mogg is now planning on fighting for the Peterborough seat vacated by Labour MP Fiona Onasanya. Ms Onasanya became the first parliamentarian in British history to be booted out of the Commons and stripped of her seat by a recall petition. The MP was jailed for lying to police about a driving offence.

The outcome of this election will give the pointy heads much to ruminate on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 May 19 - 11:22 AM

You're within a gnat's cock of the truth there, DMcG...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 19 - 08:22 AM

DMcG I an sure the gnats will get over it unlike those here that make a meal of playing at being a victim. Both the gnats and I find that unpalatable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 May 19 - 07:59 AM

I can't help feeling gnats are being slighted. I am not sure how you would measure it in the first place, but since the purpose of attention is surely to check if you can eat something or are about to be eaten, I suspect as a proportion of its lifetime a gnat probably spends a lot of time 'paying attention'


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 19 - 07:12 AM

"I'm just being as thick as two short motes this morning..."
Anybody who doesn;t bow down to Iain's pronouncements, (which come down directly from St Guido) is judged to have "the attention span of a gnat" - which is just about everybody here
Jim


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