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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

DMcG 09 Sep 19 - 11:13 AM
Iains 09 Sep 19 - 11:00 AM
Raggytash 09 Sep 19 - 10:52 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 10:46 AM
DMcG 09 Sep 19 - 10:37 AM
Jack Campin 09 Sep 19 - 09:31 AM
Iains 09 Sep 19 - 09:24 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 07:04 AM
Raggytash 09 Sep 19 - 06:36 AM
Raggytash 09 Sep 19 - 06:35 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 06:34 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Sep 19 - 06:09 AM
Raggytash 09 Sep 19 - 06:04 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 05:57 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 19 - 05:55 AM
Raggytash 09 Sep 19 - 05:54 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Sep 19 - 05:53 AM
Iains 09 Sep 19 - 05:31 AM
DMcG 09 Sep 19 - 05:26 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Sep 19 - 12:55 PM
Backwoodsman 08 Sep 19 - 11:34 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 19 - 09:42 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Sep 19 - 05:30 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 19 - 04:48 AM
Iains 08 Sep 19 - 04:42 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 19 - 04:42 AM
Raggytash 08 Sep 19 - 04:33 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Sep 19 - 04:27 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 19 - 04:23 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Sep 19 - 04:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Sep 19 - 03:53 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Sep 19 - 03:05 AM
Neil D 08 Sep 19 - 02:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Sep 19 - 02:29 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Sep 19 - 07:54 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Sep 19 - 07:42 PM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 03:19 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 02:37 PM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 02:23 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Sep 19 - 01:52 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Sep 19 - 01:45 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Sep 19 - 01:24 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 01:19 PM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 11:46 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 11:10 AM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 09:25 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 08:29 AM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 08:19 AM
Raggytash 07 Sep 19 - 08:02 AM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 08:01 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:13 AM

Some interesting comments about Bercow in the press. If there is not another election it will be the current members who elect the new Speaker, who is far more likely to be in Bercow's mould than the Brexiteer the government seemed to want. Shows every sign if being clever timing to thwart the wilder elements.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:00 AM

Bercow standing down end of October. Wonderful news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:52 AM

Step six successful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:46 AM

" The Benn bill aimed at blocking no-deal Brexit on 31 October has become law after the Queen gave Royal Assent."
Not good news for our Staffordshire English Defence League member than
Shame
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:37 AM

"BREAKING: The Benn bill aimed at blocking no-deal Brexit on 31 October has become law after the Queen gave Royal Assent."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 09:31 AM

I wouldn't notmally post this much quoted text, but it's very important information and the site it comes from isn't always up.


Brexit is on the horizon.

Drugs shortages are on the horizon with Brexit looming.Drugs shortages are on the horizon with Brexit looming.
The UK is currently set to leave the European Union, following a “Leave” result in the 2016 referendum. We don’t know yet exactly how this will pan out, although the likelihood of a no deal Brexit is looking increasingly likely. But how will this effect your prescriptions? There are already widespread reports of delays in Pharmacies due to unavailable medication, even for relatively common drugs. Many patients report being negatively affected by this, as drug shortages potentially endanger many.

For your information, we can share with you the following medications which our suppliers have expressed concern about, either because there are worries around future import rights or because the prices are already rising as a result of stockpiling; leading to real concerns over post-Brexit costs and availability.

For instance, high blood pressure (hypertension) medications such as Telmisartan, Valsartan, Remipril, Olmesartan, Nebivolol, Nifedipine (Adalat), Candesartan, Losartan (Cozaar), Lisinopril, Irbesartan, Bendroflumethiazide (Aprinox), and Amlodipine (Norvasc) are currently affected by the shortage. Antidepressants on the list include Venlafaxine, Lofepramine, Sertraline, Dosulepin, and Citalopram. Medications to treat or slow the development of Parkinson’s disease such as Rasagiline, Co-careldopa, and Ropinirole are also struggling to stay in stock. Risperidone, Quetiapine, and Olanzapine, which are primarily used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, are also steadilly going up in price due to UK Pharmacies stocking up.

Medication Possibly Affected by Brexit:

Acamprosate (Campral) – prescribed alongside counselling to treat alcohol dependence.
Aciclovir (Acyclovir) – an antiviral medication primarily used for the treatment of herpes simplex virus infections, chickenpox, and shingles.
Allopurinol – to decrease high blood uric acid levels. It is specifically used to prevent gout, prevent specific types of kidney stones and for the high uric acid levels that can occur with chemotherapy.
Amlodipine – is a medication used to treat hypertension (high blood pressure) and coronary artery disease.
Baclofen – to treat spasticity. It is used as a central nervous system depressant and skeletal muscle relaxant.
Bendroflumethiazide (Aprinox) – used in the management of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Calcipotriol ointment – for the treatment of psoriasis.
Candesartan – used for the treatment of hypertension and congestive heart failure.
Cetirizine – a second-generation antihistamine.
Citalopram – an antidepressant used to treat major depressive disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, panic disorder, and social phobia.
Co-careldopa – used to manage the symptoms of Parkinson’s disease.
Co-codamol tablets – pain relief when ibuprofen, aspirin, or naproxen alone do not sufficiently relieve a patient’s symptoms.
Cyclizine – a medication used to treat and prevent nausea, vomiting and dizziness due to motion sickness or vertigo.
Desogestrel (Cerelle) – a progestin medication which is used in birth control pills for women. It is also used in the treatment of menopausal symptoms in women.
Dihydrocodeine – prescribed for pain or severe dyspnea.
Dispersible Aspirin tablets – to treat pain, fever, or inflammation.
Dosulepin (Prothiaden) – is used in the treatment of depression.
Doxycycline – an antibiotic used in the treatment of pneumonia, acne, chlamydia infections, early Lyme disease, cholera and syphilis.
Esomeprazole (Nexium) – a proton-pump inhibitor which reduces stomach acid.
Exemestane (Aromasin) – a medication used to treat breast cancer.
Finasteride (Proscar/Propecia) – to treat an enlarged prostate or scalp hair loss in men. It can also be used to treat excessive hair growth in women and as a part of hormone therapy for transgender women.
Glimepiride (Amaryl) – an anti-diabetic medication.
Hydrocortisone – a steroid medicine that is used in the treatment of many different conditions, including allergic disorders, skin conditions, ulcerative colitis, arthritis, lupus, multiple sclerosis, or lung disorders.
Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) – used for the prevention and treatment of certain types of malaria as well as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, and porphyria cutanea tarda.
Irbesartan – used for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Lansoprazole (Prevacid) – to control the stomach’s production of gastric acid, effectively controlling pH inside the stomach.
Liquid Carbamazepine (Tegretol) – to treat epilepsy, neuropathic pain, and schizophrenia.
Lisinopril – to treat hypertension (high blood pressure), heart failure, and after heart attacks.
Lofepramine (Gamanil/Lomont/Tymelyt) – a tricyclic antidepressant which is used to treat depression.
Losartan (Cozaar) – used to treat hypertension (high blood pressure). Other uses include for diabetic kidney disease, heart failure, and left ventricular enlargement.
Meloxicam (Mobic) – anti-inflammatory drug used to treat pain and inflammation in rheumatic diseases and osteoarthritis.
Metformin (Glucophage) – type 2 diabetes medication.
Metoclopramide – commonly used to treat and prevent nausea and vomiting, to help with emptying of the stomach in people with delayed stomach emptying, gastroenteritis and to help with gastroesophageal reflux disease. It is also used to treat migraine headaches.
Metronidazole (Flagyl) – used either alone or with other antibiotics to treat pelvic inflammatory disease, endocarditis, and bacterial vaginosis.
Naproxen (Aleve/Naprosyn) – an anti-inflammatory used to treat pain, menstrual cramps, inflammatory diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, and fever.
Nebivolol – used for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Nifedipine (Adalat) – used to manage angina, hypertension (high blood pressure), Raynaud’s phenomenon, and premature labour.
Nortriptyline (Allegron/Aventyl/Noritren/Nortrilen/Pamelor) – used to treat clinical depression. Another licensed use for it is in the treatment of childhood bedwetting
Olanzapine (Zyprexa) – an antipsychotic primarily used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
Olmesartan – used for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Omeprazole – is a medication used in the treatment of gastroesophageal reflux disease, peptic ulcer disease, and Zollinger–Ellison syndrome.
Oxybutynin – to relieve urinary and bladder difficulties, including frequent urination and inability to control urination, by decreasing muscle spasms of the bladder. It is also given to help with symptoms associated with kidney stones.
Prednisolone – a steroid medication used to treat certain types of allergies, inflammatory conditions, autoimmune disorders, and cancers.
Pregabalin (Lyrica) – used to treat epilepsy, neuropathic pain, fibromyalgia, restless leg syndrome, and generalized anxiety disorder.
Quetiapine (Seroquel) – an antipsychotic used for the treatment of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and major depressive disorder.
Rasagiline – used as a monotherapy to treat symptoms in early Parkinson’s disease or as an adjunct therapy in more advanced cases.
Ramipril (Altace) – used to treat high blood pressure and congestive heart failure.
Risperidone (Risperdal) – an antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and irritability associated with autism.
Ropinirole – used in the treatment of Parkinson’s disease and restless legs syndrome.
Sertraline (Zoloft) – an antidepressant medication used to treat major depressive disorder, obsessive–compulsive disorder, panic disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and social anxiety disorder.
Sildenafil (Viagra) – used to treat erectile dysfunction and pulmonary arterial hypertension.
Sodium valproate (or valproate sodium) – an anticonvulsant used in the treatment of epilepsy, anorexia nervosa, panic attack, anxiety disorder, post traumatic stress disorder, migraine and bipolar disorder, as well as other psychiatric conditions requiring the administration of a mood stabiliser.
Sotalol – to treat abnormal heart rhythms.
Tamsulosin (Flomax) – for symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia, chronic prostatitis, and to help with the passage of kidney stones.
Telmisartan – used in the management of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Tibolone – for menopausal hormone therapy and in the treatment of postmenopausal osteoporosis and endometriosis.
Valsartan – mainly used for treatment of high blood pressure, congestive heart failure, and to increase the chances of living longer after a heart attack.
Venlafaxine (Effexor) – an antidepressant medication used to treat major depressive disorder, generalised anxiety disorder, panic disorder, and social phobia.
Zopiclone – used in the treatment of insomnia.

link


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 09:24 AM

You remainers must ask yourselves:
Is the extension bill law yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 07:04 AM

Sorry for the interruption Rag
Haven't been able to control myself since the joke thread opened
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:36 AM

Each to their own Jim, each to their own.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:35 AM

I would consider this fair warning to Johnson, Javid et al.



The Criminal Bar Association has condemned suggestions from the government that it might try to ignore the law saying the PM would have to request a Brexit extension by 19 October, unless Boris Johnson either agrees a deal or gets MPs to vote for no deal. This is from the CBA’s chair, Caroline Goodwin.

"As the CBA our role is not to say ‘remain’ or ‘leave’ but part of our role is to explain the law – criminal law – and play our part in upholding the rule of law.

Standing up for the rule of law underpins our civil society – the economy, justice system, societal cohesion.

In or out the EU, a government that stands up for the rule of law acts in the best interests of the people – parliament included.

Any government – the executive – which ignores the rule of law and actively seeks to break the law undermines the entire justice system, opens the door wide open to mob rule and very quickly to anarchy.

How can a government on the one hand pledge to unleash a ‘reign of terror’ on criminals when its own leadership threatens to break the law?

We cannot expect people not to rob, rape and murder when a government declares it may break the law. We cannot lay rape to the rule of law."

Should be clear enough to even them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:34 AM

"Oh bugger !!"
Never heard that she had gone that far Rag
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:09 AM

One solution to the likely food-shortages after a No-Deal Brexit...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:04 AM

Oh bugger !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:57 AM

"With regard to the Irish boarder apparently "
Theer were all sorts of rumours about a neighbour and her Irish boarder when I lived in Kirkby - I was too young to understand what they were about :-)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:55 AM

If he sends two contradictory letters he'll be in just as much trouble as if he hadn't sent a letter at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:54 AM

With regard to the Irish boarder apparently Johnson has "an abundance of proposals”. But he does now want to share them with the media.

I am reminded of a child in a playground for some reason.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:53 AM

Dom and Dumber have one plan - this is a carefully-orchestrated run-down to a No-Deal Exit on 31/10/19.

THAT’S IT!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:31 AM

Blair made promises of a referendum in both 2004 and 2005.
On 20 April 2004 the PM told Parliament it should debate the European constitutional question "in detail and decide upon it" and "then let the people have the final say".He ended the Commons statement with the war-cry: "Let the issue be put. Let the battle be joined."Fast-forward to the Labour election manifesto in 2005 and the language is as forthright.Blair promises: "We will put it [the constitution] to the British people in a referendum and campaign wholeheartedly for a Yes vote."

04 Jul 2007 Gordon Brown yesterday ruled out holding a referendum on a new European constitutional treaty as part of a wide-ranging package of reforms to give "more power to Parliament and the British people".

23 January 2013 PM Cameron: "It is time for the British people to have their say," he said. "It is time to settle this European question in British politics. I say to the British people: this will be your decision."

Seems a pretty unambiguous statement that the people would decide.
To turn around 5 minutes later and say it was only advisory rather flies in the face of the preceding hype, prior to the referendum.
A clear case of unsurpassed parliamentary knavery to defy the will of the majority, aided by a clearly partisan speaker.
Sovereignty is only ceded to parliament for a parliamentary session.
When parliament is suspended for an election,sovereignty reverts to the people.
Politicians need to be aware thet are not sovereign, only the people are.
And the majority that voted leave are getting more than a little hacked off. After all the referendum was held on the basis that: "I say to the British people: this will be your decision." Reneging on that is an affront to democracy.
The coming election will see the rebels routed and magic grandpa's party destroyed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:26 AM

This whizzy idea to send two contradictory letters is bizarre. If he wanted to do something to convince any waverers for a vote tonight that he could not be trusted to obey the laws he could hardly have come up with a better idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 12:55 PM

That was wonderful Baccie - cheered me up no end
HAVE TO ADMIT I THOUGHT THE YOUNG LADY WAS TAKING THE PISS
Apparently not
You really couldn't make this stuff up
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 11:34 AM

Get Ready for No-Deal Brexit...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 09:42 AM

Parliamentary democracy in this country relies absolutely on majorities passing motions/making laws. If you don't like what our MPs are doing, then you vote them out next time. What you don't get to do is wail and moan that MPs are undermining or negating democracy just because you don't agree, as long as proper process is being followed, which it has in every case recently. In terms of the referendum, it was called after a democratic vote in parliament. Same with Article 50. I hated both those decisions but there is no law against Parliament making stupid decisions as long as due process is followed. I see that the horrendous Leadsom now has the Speaker in her sights. She should remember that he's no leftie, a former Tory in fact, and that he's been steadfast and consistent in insisting that Parliament's role is protected and not undermined by an executive that finds its decisions inconvenient. Too bad. They'd better get a bigger majority next time is my advice. He's not going to allow vexatious manoeuvres such as bringing back the same motion over and over again by hypocrites who excoriate those calling for another referendum "until they get the right result." It's possible that Johnson may try to present a motion tomorrow suspending the Fixed Term Parliament Act (one of those very silly laws I was talking about) just to get the election he wants to have (he'd need a majority of just one, instead of the two-thirds required by law). It wouldn't work anyway, and I'd applaud the Speaker for disallowing that move on the grounds that Johnson would be trying vexatiously to subvert the will of Parliament. I've got little time for Bercow, but he's played a blinder in the last few months in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 05:30 AM

"Bozza will follow the law of the land (Broadcasting House right now."
The Times seems to confirm that he will refuse to do follow any law passed, the rational being that he is now mounting a "people versus Parliament" populist campaign that has been successful in putting fascism back on the streets elsewhere, and Trump in the White House with Klan backing
As they say, 'hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride'
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:48 AM

Nadhim Zahawi refuses to say that Bozza will follow the law of the land (Broadcasting House right now...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:42 AM

Cheap shot, Iains. If you actually know how to use a computer, hover your mouse over the link and it will show you the details.
-Joe Offer-

Not so Joe.I use a laptop and have no mouse.All I can do is hover the cursor. I tried that and nothing happens. The only way I can read the title is to double click to open it in it's entirety.
(and I have used computers since 1973)

Perhaps you should address the continuous stream of abuse below.

I don't know how many more times I'll have the energy to say this. But here goes. If you respond in any way at all to Iains, he will keep winding you up. I'm really sorry to say this, Jim, but you are the prime mover here when it comes to keeping him going and I for one haven't a bloody clue why you feel the need to keep on doing it. He is not poisoning the world. He is poisoning the tiny group of us who can be arsed to read his posts (and I'm not even one of them any more - I go into auto-skip as soon as I see his name). He doesn't matter. I learn a lot by reading the measured views of the reasonable contributors here. But you, Jim, above all others (though you're not alone), are guilty of keeping this bastard going. When we don't respond he acts like an hysterical kid, desperately seeking attention by posting more and more stupid and irrelevant nonsense to try to wind us up. Jim, he's a bloody idiot who has nothing to say, nothing to contribute. His modus operandi is to wind you up. I appeal to you to try once and for all to try to see it. Honestly, Jim, we can make him go away, even if the mods won't. Ignore him, let him rant on, and eventually he'll disappear up his own unwashed hysterical arsehole. Could I be more direct? Try me!

I post factual content and rarely omit fully supporting links to substantiate my arguments.
Shaw by contrast pontificates as the absolute authority on all things yet in 23000 posts have never backed up a single assertion with a link.(yet I am instructed to provide links)
Do we have a level playing field or do we not? Are we not all subject to the same rules posting on mudcat. I have received a constant stream of abuse off shaw for years. Does he have have a get out of jail card while I am suspended?
IF people deliberately misinterpret what I say to attach labels such as racist, fascist, mental midget etc then if mods will not respond I will.
I represent the majority view on Brexit ie LEAVE.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:42 AM

I wouldn't mind betting that the Queen would rather like Johnson to bite the dust.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:33 AM

Today Amber Rudd has resigned from Boris Johnson's cabinet.


I am reminded of the Queen song " another one's gone, another one's gone, another one bites the dust"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:27 AM

PM sent, Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:23 AM

"Some of the links provided in this threads are to articles suggesting that the agriculture industry will be the first to suffer from a hard Brexit."

Ironic, innit, then, that farmers were among the most enthusiastic leave voters. I'm not a farmer but I live on a farm and most of my neighbours are farmers, so I'll leave it there. The average conversation with a farmer about brexit really gets me scratching my head.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:08 AM

Dave - you miss my point
I hardly respond to this feller and I never do so in expectation of an answer
I hope to allow him to humiliate himself and he seldom lets me down
I believe hiis behaviour is driving away Breciteers who might - just might be capable of putting up an argument rather than the stream of invective and personal abuse we are getting here
Let's face it - if someone acted as he does here in a live situation, he would be taken into care for his own protection - just try putting him in your local - to be pitied rather than despised
I was told his behaviour would be 'looked into' - no signs of it having been so far
Let's leave it there
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 03:53 AM

I need to be able to bounce my ideas and opinions of people who question them

Agreed. But questioning your ideas is not just quoting right wing sites and abusing you. If you really want to debate, discuss your ideas with someone who does question them and puts some thought into it. Don't respond to someone who just parrots propaganda. All you are doing is smearing the shit further.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 03:05 AM

Steve
I am still happy to allow Iains to humiliate himself as he is doing
If somebody doesn't he will continue to pollute these threads with his propaganda unhindered
Even Joe, who up to now has defended his presence, has gone as far as to point out the stupidity of his postings - the other Mods have been referring to him as a troll for a while now - progress enough for now).
To be honest, I am grateful for the opportunity to put up the facts and figures I have as often as I am able - they can't be said enough
Christ knows, the one thing this subject has lacked from day one is an intelligent and articulate argument defending Brexit - Stanron and Nigel avoid involvement (if I was in their position wouldn't want my name associated with behaviour such as Iains's)
I don't enter into long arguments with him - I made that mistake with someone else, but an occasional dose of putting him where he belongs woks like a dose of Philosan for me.
With the greatest respect to the rest of you, as much as I enjoy being in the company of those I respect and agree with, I need to be able to bounce my ideas and opinions of people who question them - I think we all do otherwise we become complacent
Enough of this before we close the thread, which I have no doubt is why Iaians behaves as he does
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Neil D
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:45 AM

Some of the links provided in this threads are to articles suggesting that the agriculture industry will be the first to suffer from a hard Brexit. Meanwhile here in the U S farmers were the first on either side to be casualties in the ill-conceived tariff war that Trump started with China. So are farmers the canaries in the coalmines when it comes to economic catastrophe. My father grew up the son of a lease farmer in the 20's and 30's. He said his community was suffering for quite a while before the Great Depression began in 1929.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:29 AM

Rats joining a sinking ship! What next?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 07:54 PM

And now I see that the detestable John Mann has joined the Tories. Detestable, disreputable and downright bloody thick. Good riddance!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 07:42 PM

Right.

I don't know how many more times I'll have the energy to say this. But here goes. If you respond in any way at all to Iains, he will keep winding you up. I'm really sorry to say this, Jim, but you are the prime mover here when it comes to keeping him going and I for one haven't a bloody clue why you feel the need to keep on doing it. He is not poisoning the world. He is poisoning the tiny group of us who can be arsed to read his posts (and I'm not even one of them any more - I go into auto-skip as soon as I see his name). He doesn't matter. I learn a lot by reading the measured views of the reasonable contributors here. But you, Jim, above all others (though you're not alone), are guilty of keeping this bastard going. When we don't respond he acts like an hysterical kid, desperately seeking attention by posting more and more stupid and irrelevant nonsense to try to wind us up. Jim, he's a bloody idiot who has nothing to say, nothing to contribute. His modus operandi is to wind you up. I appeal to you to try once and for all to try to see it. Honestly, Jim, we can make him go away, even if the mods won't. Ignore him, let him rant on, and eventually he'll disappear up his own unwashed hysterical arsehole. Could I be more direct? Try me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 03:19 PM

IF you cannot be bothered to give links their original titles I do not bother to read them.


    Cheap shot, Iains. If you actually know how to use a computer, hover your mouse over the link and it will show you the details.
    -Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:37 PM

"We can but hope :-)"
Pity he cant take one of ours with him
He's even comparing himself with the rest of us now - talk about delusions of grandeur
I'VE GOT TIRED PUTTINg THESE ARTICLES UP - HE CAN'T EVEN READ
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:23 PM

Interesting snippet from the Telegraph.(4 April 2019 • 2:21pm)
"Today there’s a new one for Brexit obsessives to consider: what if disgraced Labour MP Fiona Onasanya had served three months in prison for perverting the course of justice, instead of being released after four weeks? The answer is that Britain would, more than likely, be heading towards a no-deal Brexit next week."

Now wots all that about majorities?

Jim I was told by Joe to give links if I was offering facts. Does the same stipulation not apply to you? I look forward to seeing links that support your 'observations', or alternatively a clarification you were merely offering your opinions.

Trampling over the views of half the electorate, whichever way they voted, should not be an option.
Pray tell, what on earth are remainiacs doing if not exactly that?
They are overturning the majority vote as well. All caused by releasing a criminal from jail early.

Sovereignty: a viewpoint
https://www.thearticle.com/who-is-sovereign-people-or-parliament#


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 01:52 PM

We can but hope :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 01:45 PM

The shape of things to come...?? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 01:24 PM

I have lost count of the number of times I have said this. 17 million voted to leave. 16 million voted to stay. 13 million did not say one way or another. Whatever happens a lot of people are going to be pissed off. A compromise is the only way to satisfy most people. No deal is not a compromise. Trampling over the views of half the electorate, whichever way they voted, should not be an option.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 01:19 PM

Johnson has been warned by former head prosecutor, Lord Macdonald, that he could face prosecution, and evenn jail, if he refuses to obey the House of Lord's instruction to delay Brexit - but i'm sure we have someone here who knows Lord Macdonald hasn't got a clue what he's talking about - no prizes -

"That Jim, is merely your view."
Common sense, common humanity and basic political philosophy
You would not be familiar with any of these, of course, as you spend so much time proving
I'm afraid as you constantly prove you can't tell the difference between democracy and lynch-mob populism
Over and out - ha my week's fun humiliating you
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 11:46 AM

That Jim, is merely your view. I doubt many share it. The referendum was a yes, no answer - do we stay, or do we go.

You continue to introduce false arguments to try to give legitimacy to your narrative but unfortunately 17.4 million totally disagreed with you.

It will be interesting to see who the final winners are! The longer this farce continues, the worse the outcome will be.
British politics will never be the same again. The majority will be most unhappy if they continue to be thwarted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 11:10 AM

The claim that Brexit was decided on democratic is a lie that needs to be nipped in the bud
Democracy demands that voting takes place on the basis of full and accurate information - a basic tenet of the system
From day one the voters were lied to and essential information held from them
Even if this had taken place, it does not mean that decisions arrived at were 'democratic' - patently not so in the case of Brexit
The driving force behind Brexit was racism and xenophobia, the result of which has led to a 42% rise in recist incidents
Far from expanding the rights of the British people, the Brexit vote has undermined and endangered and even removed the rights of several million non indigenous British citizens
his has been compounded by the failure of the state to protect the rights and even lives of these citizens
FACTS

Maybe iyt's time for somebody to examine the legality of the racist campaing in the light of the subsequent hate-incidents it has caused so far
Just a thought
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 09:25 AM

Tory rebels are preparing to take Johnson to court if he doesn not apply for an extension to Brexit on October 9th - I'm sure our populist ranter knows they are wasting their time

VERY GLAD TO SEE YOU USE THE TERM REBELS

Well we have a couple of arguments to be tested:
1)Did the recent bill require Queen's consent
2)Can rebels force the government of the day to submit for Queen's Assent a bill they do not support.

As the rebels like to resort to the courts, perhaps it is time for Boris and the quiet brexiteer majority to use the same tactics.

I suspect the bill was allowed it's untrammelled passage because it contains a fatal flaw that filibustering might have exposed.
There was a reason for rushing the bill through.

No doubt all will be revealed in the fullness of time.

One view below

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-cons

They say the speaker cannot be challenged but no doubt Erskine May has been fully scrutinised and government lawyers are testing the legality of the speakers pronouncements.

Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 08:29 AM

Tory rebels are preparing to take Johnson to court if he doesn not apply for an extension to Brexit on October 9th - I'm sure our populist ranter knows they are wasting their time

Crowds are beginning to gather in London and other places throughout Britain to protest at Johnson's fascist behaviour - one part of the people's voice that will be totally ignored by the goose-steppers
I wonder if the police will turn up to monitor the march after the way Fuhrer Johnson has used them as political chess-pieces ?

DETAILED STUDY of EFFECTof BREXIT on FOOD and AGRICULTURE
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 08:19 AM

Devious tricks and counter measures

https://www.theworldlawgroup.com/news/england-can-parliament-prevent-a-no-deal-brexit
I wonder who wins this one?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 08:02 AM

What price government plans for a no-deal Brexit I wonder. Farmers are already experiencing problems.

Problems already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 08:01 AM

“They just passed a law that would force me to beg Brussels for an extension to the Brexit deadline. This is something I will never do.” (From a Guardian report today)

As usual the Guardian is incorrect.

Parliament and the Lords may have created a bill. It does not become law until it receives Royal Assent. This final part of creating UK law is sometime in the future(possibly further than you think)

You are spreading false news. This is very remiss of you. You should apologise for dreadfully misleading us!


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