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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Iains 01 Sep 19 - 04:45 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 03:08 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Sep 19 - 02:48 PM
Raggytash 01 Sep 19 - 02:23 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Sep 19 - 02:23 PM
Iains 01 Sep 19 - 01:25 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 01:09 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 12:54 PM
DMcG 01 Sep 19 - 12:43 PM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Sep 19 - 12:35 PM
Iains 01 Sep 19 - 12:29 PM
DMcG 01 Sep 19 - 12:28 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 12:21 PM
DMcG 01 Sep 19 - 12:04 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 11:28 AM
DMcG 01 Sep 19 - 11:17 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Sep 19 - 11:10 AM
DMcG 01 Sep 19 - 10:58 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 10:58 AM
Iains 01 Sep 19 - 10:46 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 10:20 AM
Mossback 01 Sep 19 - 10:08 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 09:16 AM
DMcG 01 Sep 19 - 09:06 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Sep 19 - 08:59 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 06:35 AM
Iains 01 Sep 19 - 06:05 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 05:17 AM
DMcG 01 Sep 19 - 04:59 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Sep 19 - 04:47 AM
DMcG 01 Sep 19 - 04:32 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 04:31 AM
Raggytash 01 Sep 19 - 03:56 AM
Iains 01 Sep 19 - 03:47 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Sep 19 - 02:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Sep 19 - 02:13 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Aug 19 - 01:32 PM
Jim Carroll 31 Aug 19 - 01:20 PM
SPB-Cooperator 31 Aug 19 - 12:53 PM
Jim Carroll 31 Aug 19 - 12:30 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Aug 19 - 11:41 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Aug 19 - 11:23 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Aug 19 - 10:47 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Aug 19 - 10:45 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Aug 19 - 10:14 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Aug 19 - 10:07 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Aug 19 - 09:50 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Aug 19 - 09:24 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Aug 19 - 09:00 AM
DMcG 31 Aug 19 - 08:58 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 04:45 PM

The most outrageous of the unelected rabble is Dominic Cummings - a tee-shirt wearing thug with the power to dismiss the staff of elected ministers
Fuckibg outraueous


As a point of accuracy I need to point out the "unelected rabble" you refer to is the legally constituted government. A contradiction in terms, doncha think?

Dominic Cummings is a spad. That means he is an appointee, not elected.
He is the 'mad eye Moody' of the Tories, an 'auror' teaching defense against the dark arts of the coup plotting rabble hell bent on defying the sovereignty of the people.

A very useful laddie to have onside judging by the resultant squealing coming from the losers.

(When the swearing and insults start you know they have lost the argument and incoherent rage takes over.) Tickety tock. time and tide waits for no man!

Now! What about that no confidence vote? Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.
Verily I say to you, a true popcorn moment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 03:08 PM

The most outrageous of the unelected rabble is Dominic Cummings - a tee-shirt wearing thug with the power to dismiss the staff of elected ministers
Fuckibg outraueous
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 02:48 PM

If you want to talk about unelected rabble (I'd rather not), well there's our unelected prime minister in charge of a minority government (unelected by the electorate) which is being run behind the scenes by an unelected bully of a special adviser in Number Ten. This unelected bunch are so arrogant that they believe they have some sort of "mandate." Let's hope they get put right this week.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 02:23 PM

Just a note, an "unelected rabble" are in fact elected Member of Parliament.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 02:23 PM

"At the risk of being a bit Nigelly..."

The word you're looking for is "Nigelliferous." Hope you don't mind the nitpicking. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 01:25 PM

Just to point out the obvious, Gove was saying they might not abide by the law EVEN IF HAD ROYAL ASSENT.

At the risk of being a pedant the word legislation was used by Gove. It is not law until passed by both houses and given Royal Assent

"Following the Royal Assent, the Act of Parliament will usually come into force at midnight of that date. However, there has been a growing trend for Acts of Parliament not to come into force immediately. Instead the Act itself either states the date when it will commence, or the Act passes responsibility to the appropriate minister to fix the date when the Act will come into force. In the latter case the minister will bring the Act into force by issuing a commencement order."

Legislation is not law until given royal assent. You have the cart before the horse- This is most remiss of you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 01:09 PM

Irish news headlines lead with "British Minister refuses to say whether or not he and his boss are prepared to abide by Parliamentary decisions - I think the "we'll see what they are - we're not buying a pig-in--a-poke" curled the newsreader up somewhat
Someone locally referred to Brexit as "Ireland's revenge for Bernard Manning" the other day - went into my repertoire immediately
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 12:54 PM

I agree entirely with SBP
I think that, if anything, this long-running farce has dropped all pretence of a democracy that gets in the way of the personal interests of the great and the good in our society
The veneer seems to have rubbed so thin as to be non-existent
Any politician (or businessman, for that matter) who can claim to be helping Britain to "stand on her own two feet" and then miss off and put his money into Singapore or European Ireland have to be mentally deficient (or think we are) to believe they will be taken seriously (as shown by those who defend it here)
This is the level of contempt in which we are regarded
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 12:43 PM

I have no difficulty imagine a party political broadcast in say December:

Aerial shot: Lorry queues at Dover

Cut to Raab: I did not appreciate the importance of Dover

Cut to: reports of medical shortages

Cut to Boris - it's just a bump in the road.

Cut to: Depleted shelves in a supermarket

Cut to: Gove - its just a bump in the road

Cut to: Report of Some Major Factory shutting

Cut to: Boris - a bump in the road.


=====
Not all of those scenes may happen, but I feel confident an equivalent can be found. If I were Labour and only concerned with maximising my electoral chances, I would not push for a vote of no confidence until late November or December. Keep all the focus on legislative means to prevent no deal at this stage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 12:35 PM

If the government ignores the law, then the entire UK MUST also be exempt form all UK laws and the prisons must release every prisoner anything else is hypocrisy. The UK is a cesspit and everyone who voted Tory has made it so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 12:29 PM

I would have thought ignoring a law of Parliament would be contempt of Parliament, which has punishments that could extent to imprisonment, even for an MP. Nothing seems to exclude that MP being a PM that I have read so far.

I wonder why a vote of no confidence is not called?

Too many MPs scared to put their money where their mouth is? I am sure the game plan is to force a General Election, despite the fixed term Parliament Act.

Placing the government in the invidious position of being forced to submit legislation for Royal Assent that they are vehemently opposed to raises all sorts of intriguing possibilities about circumventing the Opposition and Fixed term Parliament Act.
I am sure it has all been carefully choreographed and game planned to box steptoe senior into an election he does not want, cannot win and destroy Labour for generations.

Bring it on I say. All those Brexit party elective MPs stand ready.
The only problem is how to best use Widdecombe? Assuming we have left before the election she would make a stunning speaker to replace the poisonous dwarf.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 12:28 PM

At the risk of being a bit Nigelly, the vote saying Parliament did not want a no-deal was not a law. It was an expression of a wish, but it did not have legal standing. But what we would be talking about in a law passed next week - if indeed it was - would be framed as a law, and so subject to the contempt procedures if, for example, the Government refused to offer it for royal assent.

And I didn't get that from Wikipedia!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 12:21 PM

"would have thought ignoring a law of Parliament"
Me too, but is's apparently not how populist democracy works
I could have sworn that Parliament voted overwhelmingly way back not to crash out of Europe without a deal
YUP - THERE YOU GO
Yet here we are facing a no-deal Brexit
Brexit has left a long and growing trail of casualties and fatalities - Parliamentary Democracy seems to be among them
Where lie the traitors in this sorry saga ?
Personally, I'm pinning my hopes on the forthcoming legal challenges, but we all know that those who can pay the most get the most ustice
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 12:04 PM

I would have thought ignoring a law of Parliament would be contempt of Parliament, which has punishments that could extent to imprisonment, even for an MP. Nothing seems to exclude that MP being a PM that I have read so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 11:28 AM

"(And just a tiny whisper: let's be careful who we choose to respond to. The current efforts are working a treat...)
Just wool-gathering to myself Steve - he'd doing quite well displaying the level of his own erudition without our help.
Thanks for the reminder
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 11:17 AM

I'd bet that he'll be on telly a fair bit in the next couple of days wriggling and squirming over what he's said.

Perhaps. Or he might be Cummingsed. Only into solitary, though. Even Cummings would think twice before advising Johnson to sack him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 11:10 AM

Whilst I regard Gove as a snivelling Tory git (just my measured opinion, of course), I'm amazed at his complete loss of sure-footedness here. I'd bet that he'll be on telly a fair bit in the next couple of days wriggling and squirming over what he's said.

(And just a tiny whisper: let's be careful who we choose to respond to. The current efforts are working a treat...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 10:58 AM

Just to point out the obvious, Gove was saying they might not abide by the law EVEN IF HAD ROYAL ASSENT.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 10:58 AM

"An unelected rabble"
Another one for Max's list
It's certainly stacking upi nicely
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 10:46 AM

So now Gove is refusing to rule out the possibility that the government will ignore any new law legitimately passed to prevent no-deal. I think I'll start calling it a regime, not a government.

Royal assent is the method by which a monarch formally approves an act of the legislature (either directly, or through an official acting on the monarch's behalf). In some jurisdictions, royal assent is equivalent to promulgation, while in others that is a separate step. Under a modern constitutional monarchy royal assent is considered to be little more than a formality; even in those nations which still, in theory, permit the monarch to withhold assent to laws.

the monarch almost never does so, save in a dire political emergency or upon the advice of their government. While the power to veto a law by withholding royal assent was once exercised often by European monarchs, such an occurrence has been very rare since the eighteenth century.

Royal assent is the final step required for a parliamentary bill to become law. Once a bill is presented to the sovereign or the sovereign's representative, he or she has the following formal options:

    the sovereign may grant royal assent, thereby making the bill an Act of Parliament.
    the sovereign may delay the bill's assent through the use of his or her reserve powers, thereby vetoing the bill.[2]
    the sovereign may refuse royal assent on the advice of his or her ministers


An unelected rabble trying to force legislation through with the connivance of a clearly partisan speaker overlook one vital factor.
Without accountability there is no legitimacy. The government in power does not have to offer bills for Royal assent when they no control over the content.
The legitimate way to rebel is through a vote of no confidence thereby triggering aGeneral Election.
Compo the compost king knows he would be thrashed into oblivion should the election arise. Hence he will even frustrate that course of action.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 10:20 AM

"how can they ignore an act of parliament?"
Watch this space
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 10:08 AM

Steve, surely that's seriously fucked up - how can they ignore an act of parliament?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 09:16 AM

" "let's see what the law says." "
That sent a chill up my spine too
Isn't it amazing how our glorious leader's nodding dogs who scream "traitor" the loudest are those who are fully in support of this dangerous extremism ?
One wonders "traitors to what" exactly, it certainly has little to do with democracy as I understand it
Whare the hell are Stan(ron) and Ollie when you need them ?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 09:06 AM

I just watched "The Andrew Marr Show" where, when asked if they would abide a law passed by both houses and given royal assent, his response was "let's see what the law says."

It would be the law, whatever it said. Declaring you may not abide by it is definitely coup territory, whatever your view on the prorogation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 08:59 AM

So now Gove is refusing to rule out the possibility that the government will ignore any new law legitimately passed to prevent no-deal. I think I'll start calling it a regime, not a government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 06:35 AM

A MESSAGE ON BEHALF OF BREXIT
A Patriot


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 06:05 AM

The sooner a general election the better. All the traitors will have to be thrown out of the Tory party and Labour MPs will have to make very clear what side they are batting for, and all the Libdem supporters will have to decide what they are all about. I suspect many of them were but protest voters. The big unknown is who will vote for the brexit party?
where will they stand?
Do Farage and Boris have a pact?
Who really supports Corbyn?
How many remainers respect the democratic will of the majority and will vote for Brexit?

No polls can come close to predicting with any accuracy until the roadmap is clear.
Parliament may control the legislative but government controls the executive and reports ultimately to the Queen and the people.
An unelected rabble trying to pass binding legislation is an affront to democracy because they have no accountability.
They say no taxation without representation,
Likewise no legislation without representation.
There can be but one legally constituted government at any one time, the remoaner's way leads to anarchy and strife, simply because they refuse to accept the will of the people.
None of your fatuous arguments can destroy that self evident truth.
You backed the wrong horse, hence your long faces!
Democracy demands the majority vote dictates outcomes, and the people made their wishes very clear.
Your arguments about people changing their mind have no substance.
Your claim people have died and hence the outcome has changed is risible.
Your threat to withhold flue jabs for brexiteers is simply spiteful and pathetic.
Your childish arguments over the referendum statistics simply demonstrate the vacuity of your arguments, well exemplified by your constant attempts to control the narrative by trying to ban contributors, accuse them of trolling and of course the never endingstrings of insults.

In thousands of posts you have changed NOTHING, apart from stalling the departure for three years, frustrate any meaningful dialogue with the EU and created endless uncertainty for business and cost the country billions.
The sooner you rabble raising remoaners are routed, the better!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 05:17 AM

A confidential file obtained by The Sunday Times from the NHS reveals there is a list of essential medicines that will become immediately unobtainable when Britain leaves the EU
They include treatments for schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, epilepsy, and chronic pain
Despite having claimed that last week's 'Yellowhammer' document was "out of date", the government have responded that they are "doing their best to ascertain there are no shortages" - aka "we have done **** all"
They are not even singing from their own hymn sheet

I hope you are wrong about the remainers Mac - it must be very difficult to concentrate on emotions when the opposition to this fiasco includes both remainers and leavers - very mixed emotions already
I was staggered at the number of leavers who were interviewed on the demonstrations yesterday - all marching under the same banner.
It seems Johnson has shot himself in both feet and has now abandoned the merits of leaving appealing to the Tory rebels with "the alternative to me is Corbyn chaos" - the age-old "back me or you'll be out of a job" ploy
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 04:59 AM

I bit of a ramble coming up, I am afraid, as I try to join several threads together, leading to a concern I have about any further referendum or general election.

One of the speakers at yesterday's "Defend Democracy" meeting said both her parents were German and they left in the summer of 1939. She said she often wonders what the ordinary German thought at that time, but with the current plans to prorogue she thinks she understands now what her parents felt.

I strongly suspect she is mistaken about what most people thought, though. My daughter was working with someone yesterday and so said in passing that she was unable to be at the meeting and the organisers rarely consider people who have to work on Saturdays. That led to a conversation in which it turned out this colleague did not know that Parliament was being prorogued at all, or what that meant. And I imagine that was true in Germany in 1939 as well. A lot of people they would simply have said they were not interested in all that political stuff.

Which brings us to the next election and/or referendum. A lot of Remainers say at least now people will know what they are voting for: it has been made clear in a way it wasn't last time. I think that is wrong, because it does not recognise that the number people really interested - on either side - is relatively small.   The bulk of people have not been following it and perhaps their greatest wish is that it is over somehow. Without a doubt, 'no-deal' sounds like the way to achieve that, even though anyone who has paid any attention knows it is merely the first step of an incredibly long walk.

So I think there is a very good chance Remainers make some critical errors in the next step: far too much on economics and far to little on emotional engagement. Far too glib an assumption that 'people will know what is in store' this time. And far too willing to assume gentlemanly behaviour from their opponents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 04:47 AM

Yep. And the people opposing no-deal, opposing prorogation and/or opposing brexit altogether are determined to use democratic means only. Democracy doesn't stop when the ballot box is finally locked up. For brexiteers, democracy (their version*) didn't even stop 41 years after the first referendum.

*Inserted because in my view referendums are undemocratic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 04:32 AM

It is a funny word, 'accept', as in 'accept the result'. I certainly accept that is what the vote was. I accept we will probably leave in some form or other. But I do not accept the interpretation of no-deal is what most people voted for because that was not what the pro-leave proponents claimed would be the result.

But of course, even if they did, it does not mean those of us who thought that was wrong should be silent and just know our place.

Any more that the Suffragettes should just have kept quiet and known their place.

Or the US slaves should just have known their place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 04:31 AM

In fact this is the usual load of shit put out by these people and their bumwipe press
Welby has blamed Brexit for the country being in crisis and has urged those opposing it to 'tone down their language'
Any paddle when your canoe's up shit's creek, I suppose
Who gives a **** what someone who refuses to condemn hompohobia and wears a frock himself says anyway
Certainly not the twats who deliberately misquote him and whose own inhumanity is as far from the taught Christian message as it gets
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 03:56 AM

Must write to the pope and tell him that god is alive and well and living in England.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 03:47 AM

The Archbishop of Canterbury has called for Remainers to "stop whingeing" and accept the result of the Brexit referendum.

The Most Rev Justin Welby said those who voted to stay in the EU must now "take seriously the fact that the majority voted Leave", stating: "We may not like it, but that is democracy."


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/31/justin-welby-called-remainers-stop-whingeing-accept-result-brexit/

Nice to know God is firmly onside!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 02:41 AM

It' about tie a statement as clear as that was made - hope those in a position to do something about it read it before Tuesday
Been reading up on the Glasgow Unionist attack which some of the press are describing as "between two gangs"
It represents the first skirmish in Farage's Brexit race war - if it isn't nipped in the bud it will happen again - and -again - and again....
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 19 - 02:13 AM

Jeremy Corbyn's own words on the situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 01:32 PM

Last night a peaceful Irish Unity march led by a pipe-band was set upon by a stone and petrol bomb hurling mob in Glasgow
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 01:20 PM

It has been confirmed that Khan was escorted from the premises by the police without being given a reason for her dismissal on the orders of unelected Gruppenfuhrer Cummings
Thousands jammed the streets around Westminster protesting this undemocratic move - one elderly Irish lady said since the Brexit vote it was the first tim in forty years she had ever encountered racist abuse becaus she was from Ireland
One wonderful London man told the Irish interviewer "after everything we've done to Ireland in the past - now this - I'm ashamed of being British"
More demonstrations have been planned for Tuesday, when Parliament is due to re-open (if it's allowed to!!)

Violent sectarian clashed have been reported in Glasgow
For fuck's sake !!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 12:53 PM

If we are not going to be allowed to know what the possible negative consequences are, then surely all negative consequences must be illegal. If there are medicine/drug shortages, then the pharmacists who are unable to cover prescriptions should be prosecuted. If there are food shortages, then the shop owners who fail to keep their shelves fully stocked should be prosecuted. This is of course pure irony, but this does establish a principle where the responsibility for negative outcomes lie where we are not allowed to k ow what these are, and if we did we are not allowed to act on it. I fear we don't even know a fraction of what is likely to happen over the last few years, and deliberate misdirection to avoid unrest or revolt and a compliant population carries its own dangers. There was a far more sinister example in occupied Europe where Jewish people willingly submitted to registration. Another worry - that of EU nationals registering for settled status/pre-settled status and the increasing number only being accepted for the latter. How would people fare if a future government applied a more rigid immigration policy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 12:30 PM

Whatever the truth of this - it boils down to the fact that this scum don't want those who voted in this friggin' referendum to know what the consequences of their decision are likely to be - but we already knew that
If the Johnson Regime get their wy, this is the shape of things to come - in spades
Why else would prisons and law-and-order been made the priority it has been at a time when Britain is losing is sources of income and security by the multi-billions
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 11:41 AM

She was escorted from Downing Street by a police officer as she'd had her security clearance revoked. That is apparently the standard procedure. I'm not going to get too excited about that. As for Yellowhammer, Downing Street has categorically stated that it wasn't her wot leaked it. At times like this I tend to avoid reports on stuff like this in the tabloids. Actually, I regard all times as times like this. I do occasionally get a free Mail with my Waitrose card, just to see how millions of idiots per day maintain their confirmation bias.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 11:23 AM

They would say that, wouldn't they ?
We are not going to get the truth from any of these pricks
Elsewhere, it is claimed that she leaked Yellowhammer to Elected politician, Philip, who, apparently, is not entitled to be privy to such information because he is against a hard Brexit - if he hasn't the right to be told such things, what the fuck chance have the rest of us got?

One unconfirmed report says that, on the orders of Bovver-Boy Cummings, the police were called to eject Khan and she was unceremoniously frog-marched off the premises -
She had a lucky escape, I would have thought - she could easily have become one of Johnson's 'Disappeared Ones' and her mother would have had to stand outside Number Ten with a placard DEMANDING TO KNOW WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO HER DAUGHTER
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 10:47 AM

It's been denied on all sides that she had anything to do with the Yellowhammer leak.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 10:45 AM

THIS IS THE NEAREST THING TO AN EXPLANATION THOUGH JOHNSON HAS DENIED IT
The rumour was that she was responsible for leaking the 'Yellowhammer Survey' ie, telling the public what it needed to know about tye effects of Brexit - the b***** - how dare she !!!!
If the report is right, all this is an indication of a split between those who support Johnson and those who follow Javid - ever-decreasing circles
We need to remember what can happen when this sort of thing occurs IN RIGHT WING POLITICS
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 10:14 AM

"She couldn't be trusted" has been surmised in most of the news reports about this, but not one says that she was sacked for leaking. Anyone who makes that latter claim is either uninformed or has inside knowledge denied to the rest of us...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 10:07 AM

" There has been no revelation that Sonia Khan was sacked for leaking and there's no evidence for that. In fact,"
The Sun said "she couldn't be trusted" - that's enough for me Steve - when have they ever lied !!!
As voters, we are well used to having essential information hidden from us, but when a Prime Minister regards his right-hand-man as not to know what he is doing in regarded to His staff - that's a time to be heading for the air-raid shelters
Even the eejits now running Britain ate at war with each other - even the most anti of anti Brexiteers couldn't have dreamed that one up - utterly crazy to the Strangelove extent
As much as I disagree with them, don't you wish Stanron and Hardy were here to explain what is happening to their party instead of teh Tory Speaking Clock we have to put up with

AN URGENT STATEMENT FROM DOWNING STREET
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 09:50 AM

If a subject is up for discussion on this website, I think it's important that it's predicated on the facts as we know them, not gossip or wish lists. There has been no revelation that Sonia Khan was sacked for leaking and there's no evidence for that. In fact, the few official statements that have emerged suggest to the contrary. From the BBC News website:

"At the meeting with Mr Cummings, Ms Khan, who worked under Mr Hammond, handed over both her personal and work phones, and her phone logs were checked.
Evidence was found that she had been in touch with former colleagues who had worked for Mr Hammond, but not that she had been involved in leaking any sensitive government information.
No reason was given for her dismissal, but the BBC's Iain Watson said it was suggested the issue was about whether she could be trusted to be transparent with No 10."

So let's at least stay on track with that one. Incidentally, though it may not be relevant to the issue, one unassailable fact is that Ms Khan is an avid leaver.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 09:24 AM

"Speaker after speaker said that for them, this was not about Brexit, even though that was important. "
Looks like your demos represent the only thing united in Divided Britain Mac
I hope you have a satisfying day before Boris sends his lads in to sort you all out
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 09:00 AM

It appears that 'leaking information' now includes telling elected members of your own party/Government what is being done on their behalf - punishment for this heinous crime is in the hands of unelected, tee-shirt thugs - I think they used to be called 'Brownshirts and Blackshirts
Fascinating take on Johnson democracy
JIm Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Aug 19 - 08:58 AM

Just on my way home from the local "Defend Democracy" rally. A hand held loudhailer was passed to anyone who wanted to speak. One person tried to get everyone to rally round Corbyn and was effectively shouted down by loud calls calls of "stop the coup!" until he was obliged to hand the loudhailer back. Several other speakers said they voted leave but protecting democracy was why they were here - and they were warmly welcomed.

Speaker after speaker said that for them, this was not about Brexit, even though that was important. And it was definitely about unity, not party.


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