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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 21 Aug 19 - 08:52 AM A sensible view https://capx.co/no-deal-issues-are-real-and-solving-them-is-key-to-a-successful-brexit/ Takes a balanced view,unlike the hysterical mumbo jumbo faithfully repeated here by remainiacs |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Jim Carroll Date: 21 Aug 19 - 10:05 AM CAPX Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 21 Aug 19 - 10:24 AM The Boris bounce versus the compo corpse. Spiffing news from the last survey results: Boris has taken a lead of 14 points over Labour in a new Kantar TNS poll, with the party jumping by 17% since May. What a lad! You can read all about it on Guido's site, the font of truth and editorial accuracy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Backwoodsman Date: 21 Aug 19 - 11:50 AM Fount. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Aug 19 - 01:03 PM Stoppit, John... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Backwoodsman Date: 21 Aug 19 - 01:11 PM Sorry... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 21 Aug 19 - 02:11 PM Font as in once dipped in it you are baptized into a life of truth and righteousness and drop all those foolish leftie ideas. (Remember Ecclesiastes 10:2) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 22 Aug 19 - 07:36 AM The Common EU Agricultural policy. " Oxfam, not exactly famed for its opposition to government spending, calculated in 2006 that a British household had to pay an additional £832 a year for food because of CAP (it should be noted that another study for eastern and southern European countries that just entered the EU found a smaller inflationary effect on consumer prices). Most hit are, of course, low-income households, where higher prices on day-to-day goods have the greatest effect on their overall means. This is the same scheme that created the milk lakes and butter mountains and still exports at a loss to Africa to undercut and destroy local farm enterprises Worse still, Brussels’ protectionism seems to explicitly favour big business over small and medium-sized farmers. The Heinrich-Böll Foundation, a think tank associated with the German Green Party, found that between 2003 and 2013, over 25% of farms in Europe went out of business. And indeed, it is mostly small farms that vanish, while bigger corporations get even bigger. When it was established in 1962 the original purpose of CAP was to secure that there was enough food for Europeans on a continent that was still wrought from war. By the 1980s, CAP accounted for over two-thirds of the entire EU budget. While the share of the overall budget has since gone down – to 38% under the current six-year budget – it is still the largest financial program of the union. In addition, despite having decreased in relative terms, CAP payments still increased in absolute numbers until 2013. At 38% of the budget, European taxpayers send more than €58bn to farmers each year – a shocking amount if one considers that farmers only make up 3% of the EU’s total population and are responsible for no more than 6% of its GDP. Indeed, while the original goal of CAP was to enable farmers to feed Europe after decades of conflict, now it’s Europe that is feeding farmers through its massive subsidies. Their businesses often only survive because they are effectively bailed out – unlike big financial institutions, these are not one-off bailouts, but day in, day out. If all of this sounds like protectionism and an illiberal economic policy it’s because that’s exactly what it is. That much was also clear from the strongly expressed opposition to a recent free trade agreement with Latin American countries from French President Emmanuel Macron and his colleagues from Ireland, Belgium, and Poland – all countries where farmers are profiting much from CAP. Politicians across Europe are fond of telling us that farmers need “protection” from the scourge of cheap imports, as if consumers’ interest in cheaper food were of no consequence at all. An example of the madness: Richard Findlay is a farmer in the North York Moors National Park between York and Newcastle. As the Financial Times reported last year, Mr Findlay garners a profit of around £12,000 a year by grazing some seven hundred sheep. But even that £12,000 is quite a lot if one looks closer. Indeed, if it weren’t for subsidies delivered by the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), Mr Findlay would be facing a loss of £32,000. Simply put, this farm would not exist if it were not for Brussels."
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Aug 19 - 08:37 AM Unlinked quote traceable back to Pokemon site - a shade up on Guido, I suppose Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Aug 19 - 08:47 AM Sorry - couldn't resist Won't happen again Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 22 Aug 19 - 11:11 AM Boris is meeting Macron today. I would suggest he offers him a long vacation to St. Helena, then we can focus on the important work of Brexit. and Merkel has to face the fact that fears of a German recession are rising after Europe's biggest economy posted its second-lowest manufacturing readout in six years. Wont be helped by all those German cars not coming to Britain if they continue their silly games. Ireland is finally waking up to the fact that playing the EU's useful idiot has consequences. Ireland has urged businesses to review supply chains and their strategies for dealing with UK markets. Firms should monitor possible drastic changes to transport, logistics, certification, regulation, licensing, contracts and data management ahead of Britain’s scheduled departure. The warning comes as firms are businesses are asked to monitor their cash flows, currency and make sure banking affairs are in order. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Aug 19 - 11:52 AM Government report with all the wonderful benefits of no-deal Brexit remains steadfastly unleaked...!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Aug 19 - 12:48 PM With his usual flair for tact and diplomacy BoJo has managed to rub his French counterpart up the wrong way. Johnson mocks Macron. Sounds like just the right sort of thing to do when you really need all the international support you can get. I guess he must have gone to Trump university. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 22 Aug 19 - 03:05 PM It is hardly mocking napoleon macron to point out that his railways run predominantly on track from sunny Scunny's rolling mills(The industrial garden city.) This is a fact! The contract was initially with British steel, then Cora and now Tata, and has been in existence since 1999. Up until the early 80s iron ore was mined locally mainly opencast and extracted up to nearly 5,000,000 tons a year. The last operating quarry the yarborough is named after the local landowner who has an estate nearby of only 113 square kilometers, or 27k acres) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Steve Shaw Date: 22 Aug 19 - 06:09 PM So here's where we are. After three years and two months of sterile Tory failure, we have two months to go with politicians everywhere on summer holiday. Merkel sez backstop stays, end of. Macron sez backstop stays, end of. Johnson sez no deal with backstop. No backstop means almost certain border conflicts. Every economist worth their salt sez that brexit will be a disaster. There is no chance whatsoever of a trade deal with the US if we crash out without a deal leading to hard border, no backstop. Beam me up, Scotty... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: DMcG Date: 23 Aug 19 - 02:03 AM You should not forget that Trump is no fan of the WTO, and is unwilling to appoint a judge (Trump’s Search for Absolute Sovereignty Could Destroy the WTO) So the idea we trade on WTO rules may collapse. The main reason we have to have the same tariffs for all countries is it is a consequence of WTO rules. But if we chose to breach those rules, it is not clear what could be done to prevent us. Sanctions of various kinds, certainly, but if the US and some other countries were prepared to ignore such sanctions they might not hold. The consequences for the world as everything collapses into a free-for-all on trade would be incalculable. But that would not dissuade Trump and probably not Cummings. Not to mention Trump would be very happy for the UK to take the initial flak rather than the US. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 23 Aug 19 - 05:05 AM A nice long relaxing holiday helps pass the time. Less need for proroguing Parliament. TIC TOC ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Mrrzy Date: 23 Aug 19 - 10:41 AM Interesting article y'all might not have seen... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/brexit-yellowhammer-no-deal.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Stanron Date: 23 Aug 19 - 11:01 AM The link only goes to an agree page and no further. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Aug 19 - 11:01 AM OUR LOUT IN NUMBER TEN Mkae ya proud to be British - dunnit!! Jim Caaarroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 23 Aug 19 - 02:13 PM If you believe the nonsense about yellowhammer/project fear, then I have a nice bridge I can sell you. One careful owner! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Raggytash Date: 23 Aug 19 - 02:34 PM Isn't it strange how a GOVERNMENT sponsored report can suddenly become part of a fictional project fear. Makes you wonder just what the Government know about the future of Brexit .......................... and if they don't know .....!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 24 Aug 19 - 03:36 PM Isn't it strange how a GOVERNMENT sponsored report can suddenly become part of a fictional project fear. No stranger than US plans to invade Canada(War plan Red) Governments plan for all kinds of contingencies. Only remainiacs regard the most extreme and unlikely scenarios as holy writ. The rest of us get a little tired of endless permutations of the sky is falling. Just as well gullibility is not contagious, or requires incarceration. No doubt they also think coronation street is a documentary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Raggytash Date: 24 Aug 19 - 04:49 PM Well, I've seen goalpost's moved many times on Mudcat and often in some very bizarre and tortuous manners and changes to threads. What the **** a supposed US Government plan to "invade" Canada has to do with an OFFICIAL government report into the effects of Brexit is beyond me. I referred to an OFFICIAL report created for the elected Government of our nation, commissioned by our elected representatives in order that they can plan for the future of the people of this country. Yet one, at least, of our "brexiteers" deems it "project fear" I know we are not supposed to cast aspersions on the mental capacity of other poster but you have to ask the question. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Jim Carroll Date: 24 Aug 19 - 05:15 PM " but you have to ask the question" Some of us think you don't Rag - not when it is so effortless that you have nothing to push against it Why bother ? Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: DMcG Date: 24 Aug 19 - 05:53 PM I was talking with a group of friends last night, one (at least) of whom is a strong Brexit supporter. He said "No one has read the Withdrawl Agreement..." Figure raised. "Er, I have.' He stopped at once. Perhaps he was being polite, or perhaps the idea anyone would read such a thing unless it was their job stunned him... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: DMcG Date: 25 Aug 19 - 03:30 AM Now we seems to be in this somewhat fictious 30 day period to find a solution to the border problem, I think the EU should find an opportunity to make clear what is needed for an effective solution. (I say 'somewhat fictitious' because it has been written into every position statement and the withdrawal agreement that the backstop is cancelled if a solution is found, however much some parts of the media claim the PM has made some kind of breakthrough.) Any border, hard, soft or technological, needs to achieve two things: 1. It need to permit goods and people who meet some rules to pass. 2. It needs to prevent goods and people who do not meet those rules from passing. Everything I have heard so far, like 'trusted trader schemes'. is about the first of those. No solution can be accpetable unless it also meets the second requirement: how does it prevent someone who tries to dodge the system crossing the border? So it seems to me pointing out that both parts are needed for a solution before the PM turns up with a shiny folder stuffed with proposals that do not address the second would go some way to preventing Boris' obvious pitch to the UK "we presented lots of workable solutions and the nasty EU rejected them out of hand." Now, I can't persuade the EU to do so. But I cab make this two-part requirement explicit here so none of our Brexiteers can simply say Boris's line: the UK brought lots of workable proposals but the EU rejected them. If they do, I will ask them how the proposals address that second requirement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: DMcG Date: 25 Aug 19 - 03:38 AM I have no idea how I failed to copy the heading I wrote on that last bit, so here it is now: Although we got the last thread closed again, we seem to be doing better this time at avoiding getting into spats, so I will get back to posting more regularly over what seems likely to be a crucial few months. There will be lulls when I am away on holiday during early September, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 25 Aug 19 - 04:03 AM I referred to an OFFICIAL report created for the elected Government of our nation, commissioned by our elected representatives in order that they can plan for the future of the people of this country. Yet one, at least, of our "brexiteers" deems it "project fear" You illustrate the point I was making perfectly! Because a document is stamped official you take it as gospel truth. What part of contingency planning can you not understand? Let me help you. contingency: a future event or circumstance which is possible but cannot be predicted with certainty. As an example let us consider the learned contributions of bankers and economists when forecasting the future event of Brexit. For added veracity I will point you towards two articles in the lefty rag the gruniard. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-england-admits-errors https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/sep/02/economic-forecasting-flawed-science-data I realise some of the concepts outlined may be a little too technical for your average lefty so I will summarize for you: The forecasts of expert economists tend to be largely bullshit. That you cannot appreciate these salient facts should be a concern for your mental capacity, not mine. So not so subtle digs as below are really not needed on this forum, although I do appreciate that when you have run out of arguments insults and bluster are all you have left. I know we are not supposed to cast aspersions on the mental capacity of other poster but you have to ask the question |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 25 Aug 19 - 04:17 AM Dodgy dossiers and forecasts of massive destruction ( Michael Fish moments ) Economists have completely failed us. They’re no better than Mystic Meg Lifted straight from the lefty bible the gruniard, so it must be stenciled on a Moses tablet https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/06/economists-economic-policy-brexit-crash-failure |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Raggytash Date: 25 Aug 19 - 06:01 AM So, let me get this right. The government commissions a report from it's own people. The report is duly put together to inform the government of the likely outcomes of a no-deal Brexit such as delays at ports, immigration delays, disruption of medical supplies, a shortage of some foodstuffs, the potential closure of two refineries etc etc. The government should then, according to your somewhat skewed notion, ignore that very same document as "project fear" What !!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Raggytash Date: 25 Aug 19 - 06:13 AM Yet another gloomy report of yet another potential financial hit to the UK economy if we leave the EU. This one is from University College London. I defy any of our Brexiteers to claim they understood this ramification prior to voting 3 years ago. UK as a data hub |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 25 Aug 19 - 01:05 PM Yet another threat by the leave vermins' mouthpiece Johnson that he will withold UK's DEMOCRATICALLY agreed contribution to operational programmes. If he does that the EU will have only two choices - apply sanctions that will bring all UK s*** to its knees (I include myself as UK s***) or sieze and auction the homes and assets, holiday villas of the UK migrants still infesting mainland Europe. Alternative Johnson can shut his ignorant mouth and stop poking his nose into things that are none of his business. -Feeling a tad angry about Johnson opening its mouth again). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 25 Aug 19 - 01:23 PM As the clock runs down the remainiacs are getting increasingly hysterical and hoping we all die of starvation. Totally unhinged the lot of them. The first argument they raised to invalidate the referendum results was to argue older people voted for brexit and are dying offf wholesale and the lots of brainwashed lefties coming of age would vote to remain.Subsequently they have entirely lost the plot. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/24/rage-remainers-will-awesome-brexit-isnt-disaster-praying/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-secon https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1169741/brexit-news-remainers-return-european-union-no-deal I would just prorogue Parliament and watch the clock run out. I would have to get some super efficient earplugs to shut out the shouty lefties. I will get some popcorn in readyness to watch them all frothing. Democracy demands Parliament respects and obeys the clearly stated will of the majority. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 25 Aug 19 - 01:31 PM May's red lines were not the will of the people Johnson's blustering is not the will of the people |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Raggytash Date: 25 Aug 19 - 01:34 PM So Iains, once again you avoid addressing the questions put to you. The government, led by Boris Johnson, commissioned a report on the possible consequences of the UK leaving the EU without a deal. Yellowhammer if you care to recall. The report by a government sponsored body was less than favourable, in fact it reported dire prognostications for the immediate future of the UK. Today I linked to a report from University College, London. Once again you have studiously ignored that article. If you are so sure of your "facts" why don't you enlighten the rest of us of just how great the UK is going to be post Brexit. I'm sure I'm not alone in waiting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 25 Aug 19 - 01:39 PM I hope that Hillingdon Council receptionists have been adequately briefed on how to prepare for the personal onslaught they may face when people realise they work for the Council that contains Johnson's constituency. I will feel apprehensive living the neighboring borough even though we voted remain by an overwhelming margin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 25 Aug 19 - 03:32 PM Tic Toc! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Jack Campin Date: 26 Aug 19 - 02:41 AM Interesting comparison of Enoch Powell with the present gang. Kerevan is a Scottish Nationalist but seems a bit less pessimistic about England than most of us up here. https://www.thenational.scot/news/17860170.boris-johnson-continues-racist-virus-spawned-enoch-powell/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 Aug 19 - 05:09 AM I see that Johnson is trying to use the divorce money as a weapon again. Well several things. First, the sum is now quite a bit less than £39 billion, possibly only £33 billion by now, because we didn't leave in March and the transactions done since then have lowered the sum. Second, we would be legally obliged to pay a considerable chunk of it, maybe eight or nine billion or more, whatever happens - even Downing Street has acknowledged that, and you can bet your life that the EU will see us in court for the rest. Third, any refusal to pay would completely sour future relations with the EU, our biggest trading partner by a country mile. Fourth, the EU will not talk to us about trade until we've paid, their position all along. These are the immovable objects and do not reflect any weaponising of the financial settlement by the EU. Boris isn't telling us any of that. He's still talking £39 billion up for grabs. Of course, being the stranger to the truth that he is, that's no surprise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: DMcG Date: 26 Aug 19 - 05:30 AM And the EU has said, fair enough, if you do that we no-deal. Then the moment you come back asking for a trade agreement, we want the money that was negotiated before we even talk. And by the way, the French fisherman and many others will also to set prior conditions before starting to talk trade. And, also by the way, we have been making clear this our position for a few years now. This is not the EU punishing the UK. It it was the UK chose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 Aug 19 - 06:20 AM That was a response to DMcG, obviously. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 26 Aug 19 - 10:58 AM Boris has brought a miraculous change to the political weather, as the Remainiac world order falls apart. The story brought to you by the Torygraph that runs at a profit. Unlike the guardian kept afloat by misplaced charity and endless begging letters. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/25/boris-has-brought-miraculous-change-political-weather-remainer/?li_source=LI&li_ With Boris as PM and Nigel as the scourge of Brussels, perhaps the will of the people will carry the day, and Brexit will become a bastard child at last! Nurtured by Valiant Brexiteers and to be abandoned as a foundling by callous remainiacs. Tickety toc! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 27 Aug 19 - 01:02 AM (1) In the event of no deal, will leavers guarantee the right of UK nationals the on going RIGHT to live, work, retire, study in mainland Europe? (2) If they can't why do leavers believe the UK nationals should no longer have the RIGHT to live, work, retire, study in mainland Europe? (3) If UK nationals will no longer have the RIGHT to live, work, retire, study in mainland Europe,why should people already living there who do not have full citizenship have preferential rights? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: DMcG Date: 27 Aug 19 - 02:22 AM There is a meeting today of the opposition parties to plan the way forward. I suspect it is most likely to report progress but not be entirely conclusive because some of the leaders will want to take the suggestions back to their colleagues before fully committing themselves. If that is the case it may still be some days before an agreed plan is announced. However it is also possible that today we hear no plan can be agreed. I think that announcement unlikely practice, but am certain that is how the Express and others will report anything other than a fully agreed plan announced today. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 27 Aug 19 - 05:19 AM Breaking news from the font of fact and veracity, the Guido: https://order-order.com/2019/08/27/chances-new-deal-increase-post-g7/ I trust none of Maybot's reparations and surrenders are included |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Aug 19 - 12:26 PM LEST WE FORGET Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Iains Date: 27 Aug 19 - 01:10 PM message: a significant political, social, or moral point that is being conveyed by a film, speech, etc. messenger: a person who carries a message or is employed to carry messages. synonyms: message-bearer, message-carrier, postman, courier, errand boy/girl, runner, dispatch rider, envoy, emissary, agent, go-between, legate, nuncio, herald, harbinger This not so subtle distinction has been pointed out innumerable times. There is a legitimate reason some are labelled leftards! Shall I point out the gyrations of some gruniard correspondents for you? Here is another jolly jape indeed (from Guido, of course) https://order-order.com/2019/08/27/majority-remainers-blame-anti-brexit-mps-causing-no-deal/ ‘MPs who opposed Theresa May’s Brexit deal because they wanted to stop Brexit’ and those who ‘wanted a softer Brexit’, hilariously, would receive 57% and 58% of Remainers’ blame respectively. Data from Yougov. And another yougov poll ‘MPs who opposed Theresa May’s Brexit deal because they wanted to stop Brexit’ and those who ‘wanted a softer Brexit’, hilarious New YouGov polling has quantified the intolerance and hive-mindedness of both Labour supporters and Remainers, showing that nearly 4 in 10 of both groups would be upset if their child married someone from the opposite camp – in comparison to just 1 in 10 vice versa. Turns out there is one sort of union Remainers aren’t a fan of… You could not make it up. NEITHER DOES GUIDO! I could go on, but I will spare your feelings! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Aug 19 - 01:20 PM THERE'S A GOOD TIME A-COMIN' Look forward to that one Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture? From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Aug 19 - 01:34 PM In the light of Yougov's findibngs that the majority if Britain's Tories would happily dsse their party destroyed for Brexit, it's interesting to har that Corbyn is in conference with the SNP and the Lib Dems to form a coalition to stop a hard Brexit Should they manage to agree, the Tory will have destroyed any chances they have of winning a raffle, never mind an election I very much doubt if Fascist thug, Tommy Robinson will have got over his prison beating up to win too many hearts and minds and the people have never really taken Farage too seriously - WHO THE **** COULD ? Jim Carroll |