BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:25 PM

Come March 29, or maybe April 1,
You have made the same slip up, Dave, that I did a while back and leapt from the 29th (30th in Brussels time) to the 1st April, omitting the 31st. But let's not draw attention to it - someone might notice...

Of course, the 1st April as all fool's day may have swayed us.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM

I quite like warm beer, mash and spotted Dick ..............

However I am half way through a bottle of Chateau Neuf du Pape !!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 02:49 PM

Of course there is good news about brexit, Raggy. Come March 29, or maybe April 1, there will be a return to cricket on the village green, hot summers and snowy winters. There will be lashings of ginger beer, girls in gingham dresses, boys will call us sir and Johnny Foreigner will know his place. There will be no need for froggy cheese, kraut sausage or eyetye plonk as warm beer, mash and spotted dick will, once again, rule the waves.

What could possibly go wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 02:01 PM

I wonder if either of our two Brexiteers have anything to say about the 2 million potential new voters if there were to be a second vote.

I also wonder what our two Brexiteers have to say about the numerous Insurance, Banking and Finance organisations programming some of their affairs to leave the UK.

I know I have asked this question many times, as yet I have not had a response.

....................???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:30 PM

Arw you really threatening me on Guido's behalf ?
Bring it on
Thought you might have been one of his employees

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

Backward man you are a tad behind the curve.

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/304.html

In this claim for judicial review, the Applicants contend that the Respondent's decision to notify and the notification itself were unlawful because they were based upon the result of a referendum that was itself unlawful as a result of corrupt and illegal practices, notably offences of overspending committed by those involved in the campaign to leave the EU. Alternatively, it is said that the Respondent erred in law in not responding to the subsequent evidence of those practices as it emerged.

On 10 December 2018, following a full day's hearing, Ouseley J refused permission to proceed with the judicial review on the basis of both delay and want of merit, and ordered the Applicants to pay the Respondent's costs summarily assessed in the sum of £17,256.

The Applicants applied for permission to appeal that Order. That application came before this court on 21 February 2019 when, after hearing substantial argument, we indicated that we would refuse permission to appeal on all grounds and would give our reasons at a later date. In this judgment, I set out my reasons for that refusal.

with any luck it cost them loadsamoney!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM

A blog from a right wing site to show that Switzerland is not as democratic as it seems "shameful behaviour - now we really are blowing for tugs (after your "paado" accusation efforts sank without trace)
Would you rather dismiss it as "left wing shite" as you usually do ?
As I said before - only the useful bits get through your trawling
nets
Weeren't you the feller passing around the "free poor, misjudged Tommy Robinson" petitions ?
You're a not particularly funny (and certainly not very bright) joke
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM

"As Brexit will probably affect them far more, and at least far longer, than it will the aging population who voted for Brexit it would not seem unreasonable to have another vote."

And one free from the baleful, deceitful, criminal influence of one Arron Banks, preferably.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:06 AM

Something that many of us commented on at the time was that the decision to leave the UK was founded on the voting of predominantly older people.

This has been borne out by a recent survey of the 2 million people eligible to vote now who were too young at the time. The survey shows that 74% of them would vote remain.

As Brexit will probably affect them far more, and at least far longer, than it will the aging population who voted for Brexit it would not seem unreasonable to have another vote.

Young voters

However I cannot see the Brexiteers being swayed by this.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:34 AM

Why on earth are you giving a link to an obscure blog that is linked to the following:
This entry was posted in Small States and tagged AfD, BNP, British National Party, Burka, burqa, citizenship, Front National, immigration, ius sanguinis, Nationale Aktion, Nationale Aktion gegen die Überfremdung von Volk und Heimat, naturalization, overforeignization, populism, right-wing, Schweizerische Volkspartei, SVP, Swiss People's Party, Switzerland, Trump, Überfremdung on February 5, 2017

All that is missing is a reference to Nazis and Jews.
Shameful behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:25 AM

David W need to remember that this poster only ever posts ONLY THE USEFUL BITS after the awkward truths have been carefully removed
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:24 AM

However the fact you all attack the messenger suggests his message is not only accurate but hits the places others cannot reach.


https://leveson.sayit.mysociety.org/hearing-8-february-2012/mr-paul-staines

A response to the Leveson enquiry:
Something that I think you might have overlooked is that I'm a citizen of a free republic, and since 1922 I don't have to pay attention to what a British judge orders my countrymen to do.


Mr Barr

And at times when you are breaking big news stories, what sort of visitor rates do you attract then?
Mr Paul Staines

I think at the peak we were getting 100,000 an hour. In an average month, we would have certainly hundreds of thousands, maybe up to a million readers, or a million different browsers come to our website.
Mr Barr

You operate also on Twitter. How many followers do you have?
Mr Paul Staines

60,000-odd.


Do you think a million browsers a day come for a diet of horse shit?

Your argument is vacuous.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:17 AM

Yes, well Iains, direct democracy might work here too if only we had Swiss people.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM

"It does not automatically follow that their pronouncements are correct."
Said the feller who insists on interminably infects this forum with the opinions of a masked criminal blogger"

My perception is that 'the feller who insists on interminably infecting this forum with the opinions of a masked criminal blogger' is the only one here gormless enough to fall for the masked criminal blogger's horse-shit. So, in that context, whatever gormless horse-shit he posts is completely irrelevant. Hence, most of the sane ones here ignore him.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:23 AM

"It does not automatically follow that their pronouncements are correct."
Said the feller who insists on interminably infects this forum with the opinions of a masked criminal blogger
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM

The problem is not whether a direct democracy can work in a written constitution which describes how all the bits fit together - it can - or whether an evolved, indirect democracy like ours can work - it can - but how you get both approaches to fit together without any arbitration system to say which has priority when. And it is not good enough for either approach to declare 'we do'.

But in the light of crucial defining decisions being taken in the next few days, or being shirked, I would suggest a debate on the merits of direct or indirect democracy is perhaps not the main issue of importance.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 06:40 AM

Switzerland’s direct democracy system has worked very well since 1848.

We have people claiming to be well educated scientists posting on this forum. It does not automatically follow that their pronouncements are correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 06:19 AM

A Friend just sent me this from one of teh Irish papers
Telling us what we already knew, of course
Jim
Science has dim view of Brexiteers’ brains
Jonathan Leake
Science Editor
It is a belief that some pro- Europeans already hold dear but a group of scientists now claim to have confirmed it: Brexit voters are less bright than remainers.
Researchers gave 11,225 volunteers psychological tests before the referendum and asked how they intended to vote. Results suggest that leavers tended to be less numerate, more impulsive and prone to accepting the unsupported claims of authoritarian figures.
“Compared with remain voters, leave voters displayed significantly lower levels of numeracy and appeared more reliant on impulsive thinking,” said the researchers, based at the University of Missouri.
Social scientists are increasingly interested in how personality affects voting. Authoritarian people, who favour conformity and obedience, make up about a third of the population. In America, they account for a higher proportion of voters for Donald Trump.
The research suggests that there may be similar divides in the UK. “Participants expressing an intent to vote to leave reported significantly higher levels of authoritarianism and conscientiousness... than those voting to remain,”
researchers said in a paper submitted to the Public Library of Science journal.
Nigel Farage, the MEP and former Ukip leader, said the research was “divisive and arrogant. Remain voters may have higher IQs but I’m not sure many could boil an egg or set up a business. They are well primed for the public sector and living off the taxpayer. The authoritarianism line is strange as leave voters want to be free while remain voters back an undemocratic authoritarian regime. What you can’t measure in IQ tests is patriotism which is a strong driver with leavers. Whether that’s rational or not is a separate question.”
Perhaps the key finding, however, is not about the brain power of leavers and remainers but the risk of using referendums to decide complex issues. Many voters, the scientists conclude, “lack the skills to critically evaluate information... raising a fundamental question as to whether direct democracy in the form of binary, winner- takes-all, referendums is an appropriate mechanism for deciding complicated political issues.”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:17 AM

All part of the Deflection-Policy of the Tories, they do it on every issue - usually involving either inaccurate references to the last Labour government and the 2008 worldwide financial crash, or of the "Look over there - Corbyn anti-semitism/enemy of the people/friend of terrorists/allotment produce-show cheat" kind.

On this occasion they are trying to deflect the blame for their own incompetence and stupidity on to the EU's negotiating team. The BrexShiteer-Muppets might - or should that be will - fall for it, but those of us who aren't so stupid know where the blame truly lies, and it's not with the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 09:10 AM

From the Guardian:

Ms Leadsom said she was still hopeful of a breakthrough, but added it would depend on the EU "coming to the table and taking seriously the [UK's proposals]".


====

Still not understanding that the EU has no other obligation than to defend its own interests, and that it is the EU not the UK that decides what the EU's interests are, I see.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 09:17 AM

And that is precisely what I predicted when she became PM.

FINGERS CROSSED!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 08:51 AM

PM says if deal fails we may never leave EU

Sounds like the end game to me.

If she succeeds she will claim the credit for getting the best deal

If she fails she will claim others sabotaged it and it is their fault

Gawd, I hate politicians...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM

Laters poll from Northern counties show 76% opposed to British policy, 67% opposed to DUP handling of Bexit and 67% wish to remain in Europe
Britain is now relying on the support of a party that does not have its own people's support
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM

From the Washington Post

Britain is one of the richest and most
advanced democracies in the world. It is
currently locked in a room, babbling away to
itself hysterically while threatening to blow
its own kneecaps off. This is what nationalist
populism does to a country.

Very astute :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Mar 19 - 04:51 PM

And so it goes on.

Today Primark has informed 200 of it's staff they must move to Dublin or face redundancy.


Primark

Any good news about Brexit yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 06:47 PM

Every time I linger on the topic of Brexit I think of that classic Goon Show moment (on the radio):

Narrator:
"Cheer up, dear listeners, Old England isn't finished yet. . .

It's finished. . .


NOW!"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 04:21 PM

To my knowledge no one has ever suggested that Brexit would not have a detrimental effect on Ireland, in particular, and the EU in general.

IF perchance I am incorrect perhaps you could show us all the post(s) that said as much.

However I will not hold my breath as I know you will be unable to do so.

Idiot.

9 and counting.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 11:12 AM

Germany’s prestigious IFO Institut has crunched the numbers on the economic impact of no deal on 44 countries and predicted that Ireland would be hit three times harder than the UK by a no-deal Brexit, taking a massive 8.16% hit to their economy. Guido hears that Ireland has been the main EU27 country holding out against any reference to the UK’s basic Vienna Convention treaty rights over the backstop.

I stated this some months back and was laughed at.

It is not a situation for anyone to laugh over. Ireland's intransigence will create no winners, just losers.

https://order-order.com/2019/03/06/german-economists-no-deal-will-hit-ireland-three-times-harder-uk/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 06:06 AM

David Carter.I suspect in the US the agenda is driven by multinational
"food" companies whereas in the EU it is driven by faceless bureaucrats.
Difficult to determine which is the better for looking after the consumer. Superficially it would appear no contest. In detail perhaps a slightly different story emerges. Neither is on the side of angels.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM

Try to ignore him, David.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM

I wonder what the yanks on here think about their chlorinated chicken, hormonal beef and the rest. I suppose not many of them bother clicking on brexit threads (which could indicate that they enjoy a higher level of sanity than we Brits).

I'm reminded of the graffiti I saw on a toilet cubicle wall when I was at Imperial College in 1969: "Eat shit. 150,000,000 flies can't be wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 05:26 AM

Iains, thats a diversionary tactic, this isn't about eating insects, it is about bacteria, growth hormones and antibiotics. Yes I would be prepared to eat insects. But not ones produced to US food hygiene standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 04:56 AM

What bothers me a bit about the chlorinated chicken spat is how it is all being presented about food safety. When the subject cropped up a while back a survey suggested that animal welfare was a big concern to UK consumers, not just food safety.

How convenient it is to forget that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 04:53 AM

The FDA allows up to 4% of a can of cherries to have maggots, 5% if they are brined or Maraschino. Up to one maggot or five fly eggs per 250ml of canned fruit juice is also allowed under American food regulations.
Tomato juice is good, you can have up to five fly eggs and one maggot per 100g of tomato juice. Fifteen fly eggs and one maggot per 100g is allowed for tomato paste and other pizza sauces. Mushrooms are really sexy, mushrooms you can have twenty maggots of any size per 100g of drained mushrooms or per 15g of dried mushrooms. That's twenty maggots of any size.
It means thatAmericans at the moment are on average are likely to ingest between one and two pounds of flies, maggots and mites each year without knowing it.

"Now the FDA say that's safe and they're probably right and the future of protein consumption is probably going to involve more and more insects

The eggs, larvae, pupae, and adults of certain insects have been eaten by humans from prehistoric times to the present day. Around 3,000 ethnic groups practice entomophagy. Human insect-eating is common to cultures in most parts of the world, including Central and South America, Africa, Asia, Australia, and New Zealand. Eighty percent of the world's nations eat insects of 1,000 to 2,000 species. In some societies entomophagy is uncommon or taboo. Today, insect eating is uncommon in North America and Europe, but insects remain a popular food elsewhere, and some companies are trying to introduce insects as food into Western diets. FAO has registered some 1,900 edible insect species and estimates that there were, in 2005, some two billion insect consumers worldwide. They suggest eating insects as a possible solution to environmental degradation caused by livestock production.


Bush Tucker Man

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 04:27 AM

A piece in today's Guardian entitled "Food fight: doubts grow over post-Brexit standards" not only highlights in some detail the poor agricultural practices in the US which are bound to cause conflict in negotiations for any trade deal but also must have us doubting whether we can reach any sort of deal with the US at all (even Toryboy George Eustice has those doubts). If you think it's just about the talismanic chlorinated chicken spat, read the piece. That particular example of fowl play is just the tip of the iceberg.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM

Precisely, Bonnie.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 02:24 PM

Yeah. Back to the stone age.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 01:56 PM

Yebbut, yebbut, yebbut..."Weer taking are cuntry back".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 01:12 PM

THEY'LL PROBABLY MINIMISE IT'S IMPORTANCE
jIM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM

So I wonder how the brexiteers will spin the loss of a British icon such as the mini? Thats taking out country back, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 11:09 AM

If police outside of UK try to fine motorists for not having an IDP, just need to say that they must send the penalty notice for the personal attention of May, and UK tax payers or the Conservative party, or Department of Transport employees will pay it. No further discussion required.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 10:52 AM

Interesting discussion of the future validity of driving licenses held by British citizens domiciled here

"Has anyone got any GOOD news about Brexit?"
APPARENTLY NOT
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 08:04 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/05/bmw-mini-cowley-no-deal-brexit-toyota

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 08:03 AM

More gloomy reports about a no deal Brexit this time from BMW who suggest that jobs would be at risk in their Cowley plant if no deal is reached over Brexit. This is on top of a similar warning from Toyota.

Has anyone got any GOOD news about Brexit?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 01:30 PM

OK Donuel, if we have a trial 'Brexit' then let that include consular officiels at every point of entry in the EU (at no cost to the tax payer) to intervene in case a fascist border-official tries to prevent freedom of movement for UK nationals. Lets have a commitment whereby every time a UK national is denied a single benefit of EU membership, that this is automatically escalated into a full diplomatic incident.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 01:25 PM

Backwoodsman, If May chooses to hand back her library ticket that is her choice. I choose not to give mine back.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 12:56 PM

Dave and the backwoodsman seem to admit the ridiculous eventuality of what's coming and the super rich may welcome it OR NOT depending on the version of reality they will see.. So why not let them see what is coming with a 'virtual' or a 'soft opening' of Brexit RIGHT NOW
Never mind the Schwartzfield equation reasoning for this but its time to throw the fear of god at those who reside in the black hole of untold wealth.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM

Arrff, arrff, arrff...something to give us a smile as the BrexShit catastrophe continues to roll on and on.

Hilarious - or it would be if Grayling wasn't such an utter twunt, but apparently an 'Untouchable' as far as The Praying Mantis is concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 09:57 AM

I am not wholly swayed by the idea Brexit is largely driven by the elite protecting their financial interests. However when bills are pulled apparently because of money laundering amendments it raises questions.