BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:23 AM

"Some of the links provided in this threads are to articles suggesting that the agriculture industry will be the first to suffer from a hard Brexit."

Ironic, innit, then, that farmers were among the most enthusiastic leave voters. I'm not a farmer but I live on a farm and most of my neighbours are farmers, so I'll leave it there. The average conversation with a farmer about brexit really gets me scratching my head.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:27 AM

PM sent, Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:33 AM

Today Amber Rudd has resigned from Boris Johnson's cabinet.


I am reminded of the Queen song " another one's gone, another one's gone, another one bites the dust"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:42 AM

I wouldn't mind betting that the Queen would rather like Johnson to bite the dust.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:42 AM

Cheap shot, Iains. If you actually know how to use a computer, hover your mouse over the link and it will show you the details.
-Joe Offer-
Not so Joe.I use a laptop and have no mouse.All I can do is hover the cursor. I tried that and nothing happens. The only way I can read the title is to double click to open it in it's entirety.
(and I have used computers since 1973)

Perhaps you should address the continuous stream of abuse below.

I don't know how many more times I'll have the energy to say this. But here goes. If you respond in any way at all to Iains, he will keep winding you up. I'm really sorry to say this, Jim, but you are the prime mover here when it comes to keeping him going and I for one haven't a bloody clue why you feel the need to keep on doing it. He is not poisoning the world. He is poisoning the tiny group of us who can be arsed to read his posts (and I'm not even one of them any more - I go into auto-skip as soon as I see his name). He doesn't matter. I learn a lot by reading the measured views of the reasonable contributors here. But you, Jim, above all others (though you're not alone), are guilty of keeping this bastard going. When we don't respond he acts like an hysterical kid, desperately seeking attention by posting more and more stupid and irrelevant nonsense to try to wind us up. Jim, he's a bloody idiot who has nothing to say, nothing to contribute. His modus operandi is to wind you up. I appeal to you to try once and for all to try to see it. Honestly, Jim, we can make him go away, even if the mods won't. Ignore him, let him rant on, and eventually he'll disappear up his own unwashed hysterical arsehole. Could I be more direct? Try me!

I post factual content and rarely omit fully supporting links to substantiate my arguments.
Shaw by contrast pontificates as the absolute authority on all things yet in 23000 posts have never backed up a single assertion with a link.(yet I am instructed to provide links)
Do we have a level playing field or do we not? Are we not all subject to the same rules posting on mudcat. I have received a constant stream of abuse off shaw for years. Does he have have a get out of jail card while I am suspended?
IF people deliberately misinterpret what I say to attach labels such as racist, fascist, mental midget etc then if mods will not respond I will.
I represent the majority view on Brexit ie LEAVE.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:48 AM

Nadhim Zahawi refuses to say that Bozza will follow the law of the land (Broadcasting House right now...)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 05:30 AM

"Bozza will follow the law of the land (Broadcasting House right now."
The Times seems to confirm that he will refuse to do follow any law passed, the rational being that he is now mounting a "people versus Parliament" populist campaign that has been successful in putting fascism back on the streets elsewhere, and Trump in the White House with Klan backing
As they say, 'hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 09:42 AM

Parliamentary democracy in this country relies absolutely on majorities passing motions/making laws. If you don't like what our MPs are doing, then you vote them out next time. What you don't get to do is wail and moan that MPs are undermining or negating democracy just because you don't agree, as long as proper process is being followed, which it has in every case recently. In terms of the referendum, it was called after a democratic vote in parliament. Same with Article 50. I hated both those decisions but there is no law against Parliament making stupid decisions as long as due process is followed. I see that the horrendous Leadsom now has the Speaker in her sights. She should remember that he's no leftie, a former Tory in fact, and that he's been steadfast and consistent in insisting that Parliament's role is protected and not undermined by an executive that finds its decisions inconvenient. Too bad. They'd better get a bigger majority next time is my advice. He's not going to allow vexatious manoeuvres such as bringing back the same motion over and over again by hypocrites who excoriate those calling for another referendum "until they get the right result." It's possible that Johnson may try to present a motion tomorrow suspending the Fixed Term Parliament Act (one of those very silly laws I was talking about) just to get the election he wants to have (he'd need a majority of just one, instead of the two-thirds required by law). It wouldn't work anyway, and I'd applaud the Speaker for disallowing that move on the grounds that Johnson would be trying vexatiously to subvert the will of Parliament. I've got little time for Bercow, but he's played a blinder in the last few months in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 11:34 AM

Get Ready for No-Deal Brexit...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 12:55 PM

That was wonderful Baccie - cheered me up no end
HAVE TO ADMIT I THOUGHT THE YOUNG LADY WAS TAKING THE PISS
Apparently not
You really couldn't make this stuff up
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:26 AM

This whizzy idea to send two contradictory letters is bizarre. If he wanted to do something to convince any waverers for a vote tonight that he could not be trusted to obey the laws he could hardly have come up with a better idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:31 AM

Blair made promises of a referendum in both 2004 and 2005.
On 20 April 2004 the PM told Parliament it should debate the European constitutional question "in detail and decide upon it" and "then let the people have the final say".He ended the Commons statement with the war-cry: "Let the issue be put. Let the battle be joined."Fast-forward to the Labour election manifesto in 2005 and the language is as forthright.Blair promises: "We will put it [the constitution] to the British people in a referendum and campaign wholeheartedly for a Yes vote."

04 Jul 2007 Gordon Brown yesterday ruled out holding a referendum on a new European constitutional treaty as part of a wide-ranging package of reforms to give "more power to Parliament and the British people".

23 January 2013 PM Cameron: "It is time for the British people to have their say," he said. "It is time to settle this European question in British politics. I say to the British people: this will be your decision."

Seems a pretty unambiguous statement that the people would decide.
To turn around 5 minutes later and say it was only advisory rather flies in the face of the preceding hype, prior to the referendum.
A clear case of unsurpassed parliamentary knavery to defy the will of the majority, aided by a clearly partisan speaker.
Sovereignty is only ceded to parliament for a parliamentary session.
When parliament is suspended for an election,sovereignty reverts to the people.
Politicians need to be aware thet are not sovereign, only the people are.
And the majority that voted leave are getting more than a little hacked off. After all the referendum was held on the basis that: "I say to the British people: this will be your decision." Reneging on that is an affront to democracy.
The coming election will see the rebels routed and magic grandpa's party destroyed.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:53 AM

Dom and Dumber have one plan - this is a carefully-orchestrated run-down to a No-Deal Exit on 31/10/19.

THAT’S IT!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:54 AM

With regard to the Irish boarder apparently Johnson has "an abundance of proposals”. But he does now want to share them with the media.

I am reminded of a child in a playground for some reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:55 AM

If he sends two contradictory letters he'll be in just as much trouble as if he hadn't sent a letter at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:57 AM

"With regard to the Irish boarder apparently "
Theer were all sorts of rumours about a neighbour and her Irish boarder when I lived in Kirkby - I was too young to understand what they were about :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:04 AM

Oh bugger !!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:09 AM

One solution to the likely food-shortages after a No-Deal Brexit...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:34 AM

"Oh bugger !!"
Never heard that she had gone that far Rag
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:35 AM

I would consider this fair warning to Johnson, Javid et al.



The Criminal Bar Association has condemned suggestions from the government that it might try to ignore the law saying the PM would have to request a Brexit extension by 19 October, unless Boris Johnson either agrees a deal or gets MPs to vote for no deal. This is from the CBA’s chair, Caroline Goodwin.

"As the CBA our role is not to say ‘remain’ or ‘leave’ but part of our role is to explain the law – criminal law – and play our part in upholding the rule of law.

Standing up for the rule of law underpins our civil society – the economy, justice system, societal cohesion.

In or out the EU, a government that stands up for the rule of law acts in the best interests of the people – parliament included.

Any government – the executive – which ignores the rule of law and actively seeks to break the law undermines the entire justice system, opens the door wide open to mob rule and very quickly to anarchy.

How can a government on the one hand pledge to unleash a ‘reign of terror’ on criminals when its own leadership threatens to break the law?

We cannot expect people not to rob, rape and murder when a government declares it may break the law. We cannot lay rape to the rule of law."

Should be clear enough to even them.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:36 AM

Each to their own Jim, each to their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 07:04 AM

Sorry for the interruption Rag
Haven't been able to control myself since the joke thread opened
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 09:24 AM

You remainers must ask yourselves:
Is the extension bill law yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 09:31 AM

I wouldn't notmally post this much quoted text, but it's very important information and the site it comes from isn't always up.


Brexit is on the horizon.

Drugs shortages are on the horizon with Brexit looming.Drugs shortages are on the horizon with Brexit looming.
The UK is currently set to leave the European Union, following a “Leave” result in the 2016 referendum. We don’t know yet exactly how this will pan out, although the likelihood of a no deal Brexit is looking increasingly likely. But how will this effect your prescriptions? There are already widespread reports of delays in Pharmacies due to unavailable medication, even for relatively common drugs. Many patients report being negatively affected by this, as drug shortages potentially endanger many.

For your information, we can share with you the following medications which our suppliers have expressed concern about, either because there are worries around future import rights or because the prices are already rising as a result of stockpiling; leading to real concerns over post-Brexit costs and availability.

For instance, high blood pressure (hypertension) medications such as Telmisartan, Valsartan, Remipril, Olmesartan, Nebivolol, Nifedipine (Adalat), Candesartan, Losartan (Cozaar), Lisinopril, Irbesartan, Bendroflumethiazide (Aprinox), and Amlodipine (Norvasc) are currently affected by the shortage. Antidepressants on the list include Venlafaxine, Lofepramine, Sertraline, Dosulepin, and Citalopram. Medications to treat or slow the development of Parkinson’s disease such as Rasagiline, Co-careldopa, and Ropinirole are also struggling to stay in stock. Risperidone, Quetiapine, and Olanzapine, which are primarily used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, are also steadilly going up in price due to UK Pharmacies stocking up.

Medication Possibly Affected by Brexit:

Acamprosate (Campral) – prescribed alongside counselling to treat alcohol dependence.
Aciclovir (Acyclovir) – an antiviral medication primarily used for the treatment of herpes simplex virus infections, chickenpox, and shingles.
Allopurinol – to decrease high blood uric acid levels. It is specifically used to prevent gout, prevent specific types of kidney stones and for the high uric acid levels that can occur with chemotherapy.
Amlodipine – is a medication used to treat hypertension (high blood pressure) and coronary artery disease.
Baclofen – to treat spasticity. It is used as a central nervous system depressant and skeletal muscle relaxant.
Bendroflumethiazide (Aprinox) – used in the management of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Calcipotriol ointment – for the treatment of psoriasis.
Candesartan – used for the treatment of hypertension and congestive heart failure.
Cetirizine – a second-generation antihistamine.
Citalopram – an antidepressant used to treat major depressive disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, panic disorder, and social phobia.
Co-careldopa – used to manage the symptoms of Parkinson’s disease.
Co-codamol tablets – pain relief when ibuprofen, aspirin, or naproxen alone do not sufficiently relieve a patient’s symptoms.
Cyclizine – a medication used to treat and prevent nausea, vomiting and dizziness due to motion sickness or vertigo.
Desogestrel (Cerelle) – a progestin medication which is used in birth control pills for women. It is also used in the treatment of menopausal symptoms in women.
Dihydrocodeine – prescribed for pain or severe dyspnea.
Dispersible Aspirin tablets – to treat pain, fever, or inflammation.
Dosulepin (Prothiaden) – is used in the treatment of depression.
Doxycycline – an antibiotic used in the treatment of pneumonia, acne, chlamydia infections, early Lyme disease, cholera and syphilis.
Esomeprazole (Nexium) – a proton-pump inhibitor which reduces stomach acid.
Exemestane (Aromasin) – a medication used to treat breast cancer.
Finasteride (Proscar/Propecia) – to treat an enlarged prostate or scalp hair loss in men. It can also be used to treat excessive hair growth in women and as a part of hormone therapy for transgender women.
Glimepiride (Amaryl) – an anti-diabetic medication.
Hydrocortisone – a steroid medicine that is used in the treatment of many different conditions, including allergic disorders, skin conditions, ulcerative colitis, arthritis, lupus, multiple sclerosis, or lung disorders.
Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) – used for the prevention and treatment of certain types of malaria as well as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, and porphyria cutanea tarda.
Irbesartan – used for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Lansoprazole (Prevacid) – to control the stomach’s production of gastric acid, effectively controlling pH inside the stomach.
Liquid Carbamazepine (Tegretol) – to treat epilepsy, neuropathic pain, and schizophrenia.
Lisinopril – to treat hypertension (high blood pressure), heart failure, and after heart attacks.
Lofepramine (Gamanil/Lomont/Tymelyt) – a tricyclic antidepressant which is used to treat depression.
Losartan (Cozaar) – used to treat hypertension (high blood pressure). Other uses include for diabetic kidney disease, heart failure, and left ventricular enlargement.
Meloxicam (Mobic) – anti-inflammatory drug used to treat pain and inflammation in rheumatic diseases and osteoarthritis.
Metformin (Glucophage) – type 2 diabetes medication.
Metoclopramide – commonly used to treat and prevent nausea and vomiting, to help with emptying of the stomach in people with delayed stomach emptying, gastroenteritis and to help with gastroesophageal reflux disease. It is also used to treat migraine headaches.
Metronidazole (Flagyl) – used either alone or with other antibiotics to treat pelvic inflammatory disease, endocarditis, and bacterial vaginosis.
Naproxen (Aleve/Naprosyn) – an anti-inflammatory used to treat pain, menstrual cramps, inflammatory diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, and fever.
Nebivolol – used for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Nifedipine (Adalat) – used to manage angina, hypertension (high blood pressure), Raynaud’s phenomenon, and premature labour.
Nortriptyline (Allegron/Aventyl/Noritren/Nortrilen/Pamelor) – used to treat clinical depression. Another licensed use for it is in the treatment of childhood bedwetting
Olanzapine (Zyprexa) – an antipsychotic primarily used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
Olmesartan – used for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Omeprazole – is a medication used in the treatment of gastroesophageal reflux disease, peptic ulcer disease, and Zollinger–Ellison syndrome.
Oxybutynin – to relieve urinary and bladder difficulties, including frequent urination and inability to control urination, by decreasing muscle spasms of the bladder. It is also given to help with symptoms associated with kidney stones.
Prednisolone – a steroid medication used to treat certain types of allergies, inflammatory conditions, autoimmune disorders, and cancers.
Pregabalin (Lyrica) – used to treat epilepsy, neuropathic pain, fibromyalgia, restless leg syndrome, and generalized anxiety disorder.
Quetiapine (Seroquel) – an antipsychotic used for the treatment of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and major depressive disorder.
Rasagiline – used as a monotherapy to treat symptoms in early Parkinson’s disease or as an adjunct therapy in more advanced cases.
Ramipril (Altace) – used to treat high blood pressure and congestive heart failure.
Risperidone (Risperdal) – an antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and irritability associated with autism.
Ropinirole – used in the treatment of Parkinson’s disease and restless legs syndrome.
Sertraline (Zoloft) – an antidepressant medication used to treat major depressive disorder, obsessive–compulsive disorder, panic disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and social anxiety disorder.
Sildenafil (Viagra) – used to treat erectile dysfunction and pulmonary arterial hypertension.
Sodium valproate (or valproate sodium) – an anticonvulsant used in the treatment of epilepsy, anorexia nervosa, panic attack, anxiety disorder, post traumatic stress disorder, migraine and bipolar disorder, as well as other psychiatric conditions requiring the administration of a mood stabiliser.
Sotalol – to treat abnormal heart rhythms.
Tamsulosin (Flomax) – for symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia, chronic prostatitis, and to help with the passage of kidney stones.
Telmisartan – used in the management of hypertension (high blood pressure).
Tibolone – for menopausal hormone therapy and in the treatment of postmenopausal osteoporosis and endometriosis.
Valsartan – mainly used for treatment of high blood pressure, congestive heart failure, and to increase the chances of living longer after a heart attack.
Venlafaxine (Effexor) – an antidepressant medication used to treat major depressive disorder, generalised anxiety disorder, panic disorder, and social phobia.
Zopiclone – used in the treatment of insomnia.

link

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:37 AM

"BREAKING: The Benn bill aimed at blocking no-deal Brexit on 31 October has become law after the Queen gave Royal Assent."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:46 AM

" The Benn bill aimed at blocking no-deal Brexit on 31 October has become law after the Queen gave Royal Assent."
Not good news for our Staffordshire English Defence League member than
Shame
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:52 AM

Step six successful.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:00 AM

Bercow standing down end of October. Wonderful news.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:13 AM

Some interesting comments about Bercow in the press. If there is not another election it will be the current members who elect the new Speaker, who is far more likely to be in Bercow's mould than the Brexiteer the government seemed to want. Shows every sign if being clever timing to thwart the wilder elements.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:18 AM

"BREAKING: The Benn bill aimed at blocking no-deal Brexit on 31 October has become law after the Queen gave Royal Assent."
I see no mention on the internet. Have you a link?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:25 AM

It was on the Independent live feed and CNN news, but if you wish to continuing hanging on by your fingernails feel free!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:26 AM

It appears that our fascist member doesn't know how to select a bit of text and paste it into a Google search box to figure out where it comes from. (Handling that much stuff on my very old phone makes it difficult to wrap quotes in the appropriate metadata - I was lucky the session didn't crash).

Anybody who does that will see that less complete versions of that list have been publicized from many sources in the last few weeks. Some of the shortages have already started, including medications my wife and I are prescribed. E-Surgery didn't say exactly where they got it, my guess is that it was from a report compilled for the Operation Yellowhammer Civil Service team. I imagine it's been quite widely circulated around medical and pharmacy professionals.

A quick look at the label on a few boxes of prescription medications, and a look at the BNF listings of who makes the alternatives for multi-supplier drugs, would make it pretty obvious why there's a problem. It wouldn't be hard to reconstruct the list from standard public references about pharmaceutical logistics. When this was first raised publicly a few months ago I looked in our medicine cabinet: of the 17 medications my wife and I take between us, 3 were made in the UK and the rest in the EU27.

---

Located and added by mudelf, because it is important information. Found using exactly the method described here. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:51 AM

STEP SIX SUCCESSFUL
Nowhere near reliable as Guido, I'm afraid - no British National Party links
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:56 AM

No one can be sure what will happen if/when we leave the EU. With regards to imports into the UK, the plan is to have a temporary tariff, under which up to 87% of imports by value would be duty free. That would mean that most of the stuff coming here from the EU would be free of duties etc.

However...

Due to changes caused by our leaving there are likely to be some teething problems (to put it mildly) to setting up/agreeing new procedures for documentation etc required to import UK goods into the EU. This could well cause delays to vehicles entering the EU from the UK, which in turn will mean a delay to them reloading more of the EU goods that we need here in the UK.

With any change in procedures there are likely to be some problems. They will be overcome. With regards to panic buying here in the UK, that too should settle down after a short while.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:59 AM

And on the BBC live feed at 16:06

Why does a Benny Hill song "Put your fingers in your ears and go 'ting-a-ling-a-loo" come to mind, I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 12:09 PM

Funny thing that, D. When I started a search for "Benn Bill" the first thing Ms Google suggested was Benny Hill. Bringing us right back to BoJo the clown. He has said he would "die in a ditch" rather than obey the law. I do hope he doesn't. We have not had this much entertainment from any politician since "Spitting Image" finished. They would have had a field day!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 12:11 PM

"No one can be sure what will happen if/when we leave the EU."
No responsible Government can possibly take such an important decision not knowing what can happen RD
According to Gove, the Government's own predictions listed in the 'Yellowhammer Document" were made some years ago
Instead of people being made aware of them they were kept in the dark
I suggest you read through the list of predictions and come back and tell us there was no need to make them public
This is the kind of secrecy The Soviet Union was accused of indulging in during The Cold War - Johnson has sunk Britain to that level

I reckon a successful Step Six would be for Johnson to attempt to crash out of Europe after it has been made illegal Rag
Then we could take turns in visiting him in The Scrubs
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 12:34 PM

As I have said earlier, the so called debate before the last referendum was laughable. The remain campaign had few facts to go on, as at that time they had not even considered that people might vote to leave.

I personally think that if do have another referendum it will be close again and could go either way.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:06 PM

"I personally think that if do have another referendum it will be close again and could go either way."
On what to you base this RD. and how on earth will that solve the problems Brexit has already caused and will continue to cause ?
Do you really believe that the British People are a bunch of lemmings ?
I don't believe they would be so suicidally stupid and if they are we deserve everything we get, but at least it would be a decision taken with some knowledge, which is what democracy entiles us all to
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:08 PM

It seems all are now confirming the Benn wrecking bill has now become law. It was nodded through the commons(not even counted), encouraged through the Lords at top speed and now given Royal Assent. One must ask the question why?
    I suspect the bill has a fatal flaw contained within that will invalidate it. I could be wrong but we shall see. There may well be a case to answer in the Courts concerning Bercow dismissing the need for Queen's consent, and how it may impact the Queen's Perogative and thereby does need queen's consent. Such decisions are normally within the remit of the speaker, HOWEVER........... I see choppy waters ahead.
All will come clear in the fullness of time no doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:22 PM

On what to you base this RD. and how on earth will that solve the problems Brexit has already caused and will continue to cause ?
Do you really believe that the British People are a bunch of lemmings ?
I don't believe they would be so suicidally stupid and if they are we deserve everything we get, but at least it would be a decision taken with some knowledge, which is what democracy entiles us all to

Your question is already answered.
29 Brexit party seats in the EU parliament.(A clear majority)
In local government elections:
Conservatives: the party lost control of nearly a third of the councils it had.It came out with 93(down 45).In the process,it saw net losses of 1,269 seats.
Labour: Had hoped to make ground, not lose it. The party saw a net loss of six councils, ending up controlling 60, and had a net loss of 63 seats along the way.Lib Dems: The biggest winners. The Lib Dems managed net gains of 11 councils – leaving them in control of 18 – and 676 councillors.

of course the brexit party had no time to participate in these elections and the Lib Dems picked up the protest vote

I have no doubt the level of frustration of the electorate has continued rising since(03.5.19)

The coming election is going to be brutal and I predict Labour is going to be destroyed for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 04:22 AM

Again a request for an election is rejected. The rebels are quite happy to collude with a rogue speaker to drive legislation through the house without the authority of the ruling party.
Yet when twice being offered the choice of an election to allow the electorate to give legitimacy to their actions they balk!

Are they worried they do not have popular support for their actions?
They merely postpone their inevitable day of reckoning, while more and more of the electorate steadily awake to the destruction of democracy, well exemplified by rebels assaulting staff of the commons around the speakers chair last night. Hardly an edifying site, but thoroughly in keeping with the rebels standards of behaviour. They cannot obtain legitimacy through the ballot box, so now they try by resorting to violence.
The enemy is showing it's true colours!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 09:19 AM

Fabulous result again, which makes the proroguing of Parliament nothing more than an undemocratic act of pure vindictiveness (unless these bastards are preparing to move in the tanks)   
I have to express my gratitude for the persistent examples of mindless nastiness of Brexit without having to move away from these threads
When people start referring to fellow Britons who don't agree with them as "the enemy" and "traitors" we all need to start strengthening our front doors and making sure our locks work
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 09:24 AM

I am a bit concerned about the rumours the LibDems are considering an SO24 calling for Article 40 to be revoked. Having avoided the elephant traps so far, I think it unwise to build one on behalf of the Tories.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 09:45 AM

I assume that is article 50 Mac ?
If so, there was a petition which received over two million signatures calling for just this
I'd be more than happy to see it happen but I agree that now is probably not the time
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 10:15 AM

Jo Swinson made a passionate, eloquent and excoriating attack on Johnson last night, and she's a likeable character, but the LibDems' tactic of saying that they will revoke Article 50 if they get a parliamentary majority (anyone just see that flying pig?) means that a united front presented by the opposition parties, so nicely on display in the Commons this week, is impossible in the election campaign to come. My view, which I've arrived at very reluctantly, is that a united opposition to the Tories should be predicated on fighting for another referendum and a campaign to remain. I would really love to see my Labour Party move to that position (which puts me in the somewhat unenviable position of agreeing with Peter Mandelson - he's a canny bugger if nothing else). We're not far off, and, with the LibDems in accord, along with the Greens and nationalist parties, we'd have a formidable opposition to this disastrous shower.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 12:32 PM

So Caroline Flint is saying 50 Labout MPs are ready to back a new deal. She is entitled to her view and in fact her voting record on Brexit has been pretty consistent. But if 50 Labour MPs are ready to vote for a deal without knowing what it is that is a sorry state of affairs.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 12:53 PM

17 million voted for brexit without knowing what it was, D ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 01:00 PM

Point taken, Dave :)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 01:09 PM

Irishman Phil Hogan, agriculture representitive, has been appointed new Trade Commissioner, so when/if ever the UK get their collective arses into gear and returns to negotiate leaving it is he who they will have to negotiate with - I'm damned sure he's not going to agree anything that involves a border
More Briolence in Northern Ireland today when a police vehicle is attacked
Jim Carroll