BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 01:22 PM

Help out a Yank here please: is Rachel Johnson trying to sat Brex-Shit has gone tits up?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 08:50 AM

https://order-order.com/2019/02/15/eu-investors-considering-moves-uk-brexit/

Well, well, well!
I do not think the EU scripted that! Brought by Guido of course.

and for the infidels the original can be read in the Financial Times!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 07:54 AM

Apparently "one ERG source said the group was unconcerned about [the release of no-deal analyses] because the public paid no attention to "project fear" at the referendum."

That seems an unwise way of looking at things. He or she may be right in the event of a second referendum. But it will be a very different thing if one or more of the warnings turn out to be correct and those suffering the consequences know the MPs were told beforehand but chose to let it happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 05:00 PM

She'll keep going until the small group of billionaires and multi-millionaires who are giving her her orders tell her to do something else. They want a no-deal BrexShit in order to avoid the new EU Anti-Tax-Avoidance regulations, and she will make sure they get what they want, no matter how much the rest of us suffer as a result.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 04:11 PM

Question for both sides.

Just how many defeats in the House of Commons does Teresa May have to suffer before she (and her advisers) understand that her proposals are not acceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 01:36 PM

Now they've upset the Liverpudlians - bang goes the United Kingdom!!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 07:45 AM

For good news on Brexit, google this:

https://costofbrexit.netlify.com

Brexit since the referendum has cost us between £440 million and £500 million a week. So far, anything between 60 and 80 billion in total. I need a red bus and a pot of paint...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 06:58 AM

"As O’Brien notes: “That’s called Germany+.

“It’s also called being in the European Union."

And it's precisely what we currently have, and what a bunch of bone-head, flag-waving dick-wads have voted to throw away on 29/3/19.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 06:50 AM

There is now a constant stream of complaints from both the Northern Counties and the Republic, of the effects Brexit is now having on the Irish economy and loss of investment and jobs, the latest being from the transport industry and it hasn't been put into place yet!
The Little Englanders can hardly claim it to be an 'Irish Problem' - without D.U.P. support May would be looking for a job in the hospitality industry (except that's likely to take a HEFTY KICKING as well if things continue as they are)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 06:29 AM

James O'Brien's proposals for Brexit. The popular LBC presenter has some proposals that should be popular with everyone...


Proposals for a Germany+ agreement with the EU has garnered widespread support on social media after the proposal was put forward by LBC presenter James O’Brien.

The Brexit policy, which would be popular with both Leavers and Remainers and could even pass through Parliament, would give Britain the same deal that Germany has but with added benefits.

Britain would keep control of its borders by opting out of the Schengen agreement on free movement.

That means we could send people from other countries home if they couldn’t support themselves.

We would also stay out of the single currency, have the power of veto on matter such as Turkish ascension to the EU and vote on how our government spends our money.

It would also mean we have lots of fresh food and medicines arriving unchecked into our country under some of the biggest trade agreements on the planet, with a one-third reduction in the fee we pay for all of these things.

And best of all – we could vote on our own laws, with a court to make sure that British people and businesses are fairly treated.

As O’Brien notes: “That’s called Germany+.

“It’s also called being in the European Union.”

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 02:14 AM

A little while ago I asked Nigel in particular but indirectly all our Brexit supporters whether they were willing that their nearest and dearest suffer any disadvantages that may arise - I take it as read they are prepared to suffer any such thing themselves.

We have a case in point here. Imagine such a job loss affects your son, daughter or those of a close friend. They are worried about how they will pay their mortgage and whether if they don't find a job soon they could even lose their home. They come to you full of fear and trepidation.

Do you really cheerily say "No gain without pain"?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 01:52 PM

Better out than in!

The news from Guido before the BBC spins it into oblivion.


https://order-order.com/2019/02/13/eurozone-industrial-production-plunges-even-faster-expected/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 01:48 PM

Yeah Steve, but don't forget - "No gain without pain", and "It's a price worth paying". :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 01:48 PM

Yeah Steve, but don't forget - "No gain without pain", and "It's a price worth paying". :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 01:23 PM

Yebbut weer gettin are cuntry back...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 01:12 PM

You want some good brexit news? Well yertis, courtesy of a chap posting a comment to a Guardian piece (the one about Theresa May's policy on mouldy jam):

As Rome burns by a Tory flame thrower; and Ian Blackford’s laser like critique of May’s rhetorical guff, Brexit pain is clearly for the little people only while the elite ship off and ship out:
- UK has rolled over just £16bn out of £117bn trade deals – 13% success rate, nice one Foxy, Geeza job, a’can do that….
- Anti-terror checks deliver fresh Brexit threat for UK hauliers.
- Targeted no-deal Brexit ads are funded opaquely, yet the government has failed to bring in new laws – I wonder why?
- The Dutch government has said it is in talks with more than 250 companies about moving their operations from the UK to the Netherlands before Brexit.
- As the GB pound tanks on the international currency markets exiting Europe with a no deal Disaster Capitalist are set to swoop on Brexit Britain and seize assets of indebted UK companies and Public Sector organisations.
- The UK’s trade with Japan will revert to World Trade Organisation tariffs in the case of a no-deal Brexit.
- The Department for International Trade (DIT) told business leaders this week that time was running out for Britain to roll-over trade deals with about 60 countries the EU has free trade arrangements with,
- Boris Johnson suggests that leaving the EU will allow us to dismantle green standards for electrical goods and environmental impact assessments.
- Iain Duncan Smith asks for the removal after Brexit of the carbon floor price, which has more or less stopped coal-burning in the UK.
- With Liam Fox is demanding the destruction of food and environmental standards as the price of the trade deal he desperately seeks with the US.
- Jacob Rees-Mogg has proposed that we accept “emission standards from India”. “We could say, if it’s good enough in India, it’s good enough for here.”
- Brexit Snowflakes melt in huge numbers causing widespread gushing of crocodile tears due to the heat from Donald Tusk.
- UK financial sector has shifted at least £800 billion ($1 trillion) worth of assets out of UK into the EU because of Brexit, with consequential losses in tax receipts to HMT.
- Britain’s economy is contracting – James Knightly of IGN.
- Brexit's vice-like grip is hurting services industry -Duncan Brock at the Chartered Institute of Procurement & Supply.
- Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) plunges to a 2 ½ year low due to Tory Brexit shambles.
- 200 000 British applied for Irish passports in 2018 to retain EU citizenship.
- Tory refused six times to answer a question about what was on offer to Nissan.
- Cold war plans revived to move Queen to safe location away if unrest follows no deal.
- Nissan shelving plans to build new X-Trail in UK.
- Government officials are preparing to deal with “putrefying stockpiles” of rubbish.
- One in three UK firms plan for no-deal Brexit relocation – IOD.
- More than one in 10 British businesses have already set up operations outside the UK.
- British car manufacturing investment plunges by 50%
- Food retailers now tell us we are 9 meals away from anarchy.
- Royal Bank of Scotland to transfer a third of clients and assets worth billions to Amsterdam.
- Barclays to move £170bn to Dublin over no-deal Brexit fears.
- Media companies (Discovery; Comcast; NBC) have moved staff and broadcast licenses out of the UK.
- Five of the largest banks transferring 750 billion euros ($857 billion) of assets to Frankfurt.
- Unilever to consolidate its headquarters in Rotterdam, and not in London.
- HSBC moving 1000 jobs from London to Paris, where it will set up its EU headquarters.
- UBS to move 1000 jobs from London to EU offices, including Frankfurt.
- 'May can no longer be trusted': Heavyweight European press condemns PM
- NHS trusts 'could run out of medical supplies' without Brexit deal. – Birmingham Hospital Chief
- British retirees in EU will lose free healthcare under no-deal Brexit. – DoH Select Committee
- UK personal insolvencies hit seven-year high. – Insolvency Service
- Corporate insolvencies are likely to continue to rise in 2019. – Menzies LLP
- European Banking Authority from London to Paris.
- European Medicines Agency relocates from London to Amsterdam.
- Moneygram will move its EU headquarters from London to Brussels.
- Dyson to Singapore.
- Rees-Mogg to Dublin with two portfolios.
- Farage to Germany with passports for his sons.
- Lawson holed up in France.
- Airbus UK about to fly out from UK.
- Jim Ratcliffe, Britain’s richest man, reportedly moving to Monaco for tax purposes.
- Panasonic moving its European HQ from the UK to The Netherlands.
- Sony moving its European HQ from London to The Netherlands.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 11:40 AM

And, of course, the Brexit-Muppets have still to tell the rest of us what this mystical 'gain' will consist of (apart from 'taking are cuntry back').

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 11:17 AM

It's the true spirit of Brexiteers Backwoodsman, in truth they don't give a flying **** about anyone except themselves.

The comment you refer to is clear proof of this.

And the really stupid thing is that they don't think any of this will impact on them, despite their outgoings increasing over and above what could be expect due to inflation.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 11:01 AM

I'm sure the workers whose livelihoods will go down the toilet will be very comforted by those sentiments expressed above.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 10:44 AM

But pain is not evidence of gain.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 10:23 AM

Trimble has mounted a legal challenge against the border issue - another £billion bung in the offing, I think
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 09:36 AM

No gain without pain!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 08:06 AM

Ford step up preparations to move production out of Britain

Thanks for trashing our economy, prospects and way of life, brexiteers.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 06:32 AM

Two gems from Guido. The man with a finger on the pulse:

https://order-order.com/2019/02/13/inflation-falls-two-year-low-despite-brexit/

Tsk, Tsk!


https://order-order.com/2019/02/13/robbins-reveals-dishonesty-of-governments-stance/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 07:27 PM

Hmm Nigel. The poster said that the current low has everything to do with it. You admit as much in your post.

Once again (and again) you seek to deflect the discussion.


PS. Any GOOD news about Brexit yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 07:06 PM

Past performance has sweet FA to do with brexit anyway. The current low has everything to do with it. Nice try at deflection but don't worry.

Good. It wasn't the brexiteers on this thread who brought up the fact that GDP growth is at a nine year low. So you accept that it is FA to do with the Brexit debate. Please advise your associated leavers of that view.
"The current low" is only a 'low' if it is compared to historic rates of GDP growth. If past performance has nothing to do with it, then it becomes pointless to discuss it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 01:20 PM

The ONS has released its first estimate of GDP growth for 2018 Q4 at 0.2%, giving an initial figure of 1.3% growth for the year. A far cry from the recession that the Treasury, Bank of England and IMF were all predicting before the referendum…

Growth is sluggish across Europe, particularly in Italy and Germany – the UK is still comfortably in the middle of the road, with the European Commission itself putting the UK on a par with France and the Eurozone average for its 2019 forecast.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 01:16 PM

In a perhaps vain attempt to drag people back into the present day rather than discussing the financial crash or Brown's gold dealings, here is something about Brexit. Remember that is what we are discussing?

It seems Grayling's statement that no taxpayers' money has been spent in dealing with the Ferry Company With No Ships is being challenged by carefully ignoring all the costs involved apart from dosh directly paid to the company.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 01:12 PM

Past performance has sweet FA to do with brexit anyway. The current low has everything to do with it. Nice try at deflection but don't worry. You are not the only one who knows they are wrong about leaving the EU but is now unable to admit it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 01:00 PM

Who was blaming Labour for the global recession of 2008/09?
The comparative high point of 9 years ago (although GDP growth has been higher in between) was soon after that recession. The global recession (of 2008/09) cannot take all the blame in the fall of GDP growth.
In the link you gave for GDP figures from 2000 to 2017 there was a downward trend from a peak in 2000 before that recession hit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 12:01 PM

This idea of picking a single year to make the comparison with is misleading.

And blaming the Labour government for a world recession caused primarily by dodgy banking practices isnt?

It was you who started trying to compare the current Tory disaster with past Labour governments, Nigel. Don't start backtracking now just because some awkward facts have got in the way!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 11:12 AM

As expected, no answers from our resident Tories - 'whataboutery' from one, and the usual nitpicking from the other. Clearly students of the Theresa May Method of Answering Questions - i.e. ignore the question and try to change the subject.

What a shower!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 10:58 AM

Thanks Baccy
"Vonservative mouthpiece, The Daily Telegraph"
Now there's a typo worth remembering - wonder if we can look forward to a Westminster Fire like the Reichstag one !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 09:49 AM

Cheers, Jim. You beat me to it in putting Nigelpicker right.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 08:47 AM

The recession of 2008/2009 is well documented as being the result of an unfettered financial market worldwide and not of the last Labour government. There was a lot not to like about Gordon Brown but you cannot lay a world crisis on his doorstep.

GDP is the accepted measure of economic growth. This administration have never achieved the high that Blair and Brown did in 2000 and with their efforts to trash the economy they never will. Try getting the facts for yourself, Nigel, instead of accepting the spin of your Tory betters.

GDP figures from 2000 to 2017

Talking of 'spin'. This administration may not have reached the 'high' of 2000, but looking at your graph, neither did Labour. This idea of picking a single year to make the comparison with is misleading.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 08:32 AM

"Growth worst since we had a Labour government".
Long since expecting a return response Nigel, but the statement is based on statistics not who was in charge and they are even carried by the Conservative Daily Express, Daily Mail and the Vonservative mouthpiece, The Daily Telegraph
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 08:11 AM

In 17 auctions, Mr Brown as Chancellor of the Exchequer sanctioned the sale of 395 tonnes of gold. Figures released by the Treasury show that the total proceeds from the sales was around $3.5billion. According to a Parliamentary answer, if the gold was sold last month, on December 15, it would have raised $10.5billifor you!on.Jan 7, 2009.

That's Labour for you!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 08:10 AM

And, more importantly, a way of not talking about the impact of Brexit and the negotiations for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 07:59 AM

Isn't the constant attempting to lay the blame the worldwide financial crisis - caused by the recklessness and mismanagement of, in the main, US financial institutions, mirrored here and elsewhere by others - at the door of the last Labour government a clear indication of the fundamental dishonesty of the Tory Party and its sycophants?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 07:51 AM

The recession of 2008/2009 is well documented as being the result of an unfettered financial market worldwide and not of the last Labour government. There was a lot not to like about Gordon Brown but you cannot lay a world crisis on his doorstep.

GDP is the accepted measure of economic growth. This administration have never achieved the high that Blair and Brown did in 2000 and with their efforts to trash the economy they never will. Try getting the facts for yourself, Nigel, instead of accepting the spin of your Tory betters.

GDP figures from 2000 to 2017

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 07:29 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 01:15 PM
Investment down, growth the worst for nine years

"Growth worst for 9 years". Isn't it strange that that period of 9 years (only) just covers the periods of the Conservative-led governments.
maybe the quote deliberately avoided saying "Growth worst since we had a Labour government".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 05:42 AM

Lord Snooty:
He is the blue passport in human form, the red telephone box made flesh, the Royal Yacht Britannia in a pinstripe suit; a reminder of a world in which traditional Britons didn’t have to apologise for being who they were and bow before the gods of multiculturalism, feminism and health and safety.”
“He is more than just the leader of a faction or a cult. He is also the embodiment of the average Conservative Party member. A recent survey by Queen Mary University of London painted the fullest picture to date of Tory members. Some 44% are over 65 and 71% are men. They think austerity has been a good thing. They believe in traditional values and harsh prison sentences. They love Brexit—and not just any old Brexit, but the full-strength sort, leaving both the customs union and the single market."

A fine fellow of a man! Naturally superior to the scruffy git Corbyn.
The eloquent Rees Mogg has very clear consistent views concerning Brexit. Does Corbyn have a view of brexit that holds for more than the next soundbite? Such a disreputable wretch!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 03:49 AM

Remarkable programme on Irish television on Brexit last night which included powerful interviews with Alistair Campbell and the father of two of the Omagh bombing victims
The discussion centred around the possible effects Brexit would have on The Good Friday Agreement and a return to violence
It finished with statements from businessmen and farmers in the audience (from both sides of the border) outlining the effects this fiasco has had on their businesses and possible future effects
Campbell, who I have always detested, spoke magnificently and responded to every question clearly and honestly (not bad for a politician)
Perhaps they should have asked LORD SNOOTY instead - better for Britain's image !!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 07:46 PM

And the money we're taking back control of is ebbing away fast. And the borders we're taking back control of mysteriously appear to be unable to stop people from moving out. And the laws we're taking back control of will soon all be the same laws we'll have to stick with anyway (it won't hurt because they're all good laws anyway, and in any case they form a tiny proportion of all the laws the country embraces). And we'll have to stick to any new EU laws regarding trade, only this time we'll have no say in them.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 03:30 PM

The thing that gets consistently ignored by those yammering on about how being in a customer union with the EU gets in the way of getting trade deals with other countries in farflung parts of the world is that, when it comes to getting favourable trade deals, the UK on its own is in a far weaker position that the EU. It just hasn't got the clout. Much of the time it will be about knuckling down and accepting what is offered, however bad.

This is referred to as "regaining sovereignty and independence."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 02:33 PM

I'd prefer the bus. I do not trust fiat currency!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 01:15 PM

Investment down, growth the worst for nine years and even a Tory chancellor is blaming brexit uncertainty. And nothing happening. No trade deals and Liam Fox wobbling sweatily. Anyone for £350 million a week?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 12:35 PM

Here is ine of Corbyn's speeches. I do like consistency off a politician!

https://talkradio.co.uk/news/exclusive-jeremy-corbyn-called-european-union-be-defeated-explosive-rally-speech-19021129836

What a valianr brexiteer! But he ducks and dives and bends and twists and the message varies north and south of the river!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 12:11 PM

Before anyone says 'Facebook' as a means of dismissal, the speech is easy to find in Hansard.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 12:04 PM

At least one MP can see BrexShit for what it is, and isn't afraid to say so...

https://www.facebook.com/242623503265050/posts/308298963364170?sfns=mo