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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Stanron 11 Mar 19 - 06:01 AM
Stanron 11 Mar 19 - 06:00 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Mar 19 - 05:43 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 05:24 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Mar 19 - 05:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Mar 19 - 04:31 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 04:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Mar 19 - 03:58 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 03:01 AM
Mossback 10 Mar 19 - 09:24 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 07:59 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Mar 19 - 07:46 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Mar 19 - 04:31 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Mar 19 - 03:34 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 03:26 PM
DMcG 10 Mar 19 - 03:25 PM
Raggytash 10 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Mar 19 - 02:49 PM
Raggytash 10 Mar 19 - 02:01 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 12:30 PM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM
Raggytash 10 Mar 19 - 09:06 AM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 08:34 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 08:25 AM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 08:24 AM
David Carter (UK) 10 Mar 19 - 08:17 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 07:23 AM
DMcG 10 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 06:40 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 06:19 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Mar 19 - 03:17 AM
DMcG 09 Mar 19 - 09:10 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Mar 19 - 09:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Mar 19 - 08:51 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM
Raggytash 07 Mar 19 - 04:51 PM
robomatic 06 Mar 19 - 06:47 PM
Raggytash 06 Mar 19 - 04:21 PM
Iains 06 Mar 19 - 11:12 AM
Iains 06 Mar 19 - 06:06 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM
David Carter (UK) 06 Mar 19 - 05:26 AM
DMcG 06 Mar 19 - 04:56 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:01 AM

Or should that be remainers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:00 AM

Leavers fall into two camps, the stupid and the dangerously stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:43 AM

Brexiters fall into two camps, the extremely selfish such as those who have hedged against the UK economy, and the utterly deluded, who were taken in by the lies on the side of a bus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:24 AM

Here is a fairly old clip of my MP, Royston Smith. In the first minute or so he lists why he voted to leave.

What is striking it that the reasons are all about him: not once does he say it is in the countries best interests. The closest he gets is saying he thinks that the country can stand on its own two feet. Sure it can, but that does not mean it will be as tall as it was!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:11 AM

Hunt on TV this morning, and the revolting Mark Francois (surprised he hasn't changed his name), all the other tory MPs, to them all thats important is keeping the tory party intact. Far more important than the welfare of the people of the country. Not one of them is making the case that the people will be better off out of the EU. They can't because they know it's not true. But to them we are simply collateral damage, sacrificed in the interests of the tory party. If they had any decency they would be working for a compromise, such as Corbyn's customs union proposal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:31 AM

:-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:19 AM


I didn't slip up btw, DMcG.


That's fine. I did, though!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:58 AM

I didn't slip up btw, DMcG. March 29th is a Friday. Everyone knows that before those upstart Europeans started to dictate what their betters should do, weekends were sacrosanct and nothing got done. As March 30 and 31 will be spent watching football and going to church, April the first will be the first proper day of our glorious past re-invented. And very apt it is :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:01 AM

According to the Guardian today:

The prime minister pledged in parliament to put her deal to the Commons on Tuesday but she is being urged by senior Conservative MPs to pull the vote if she fails to secure significant concessions from Brussels.
Leading Tories have warned Downing Street it could face a three-figure defeat similar to the historic 230-vote loss in January if the government goes ahead.
They have advised her instead to replace the vote with a motion setting out the kind of Brexit deal that would be acceptable to Tory MPs to keep the party together and put pressure on Brussels.

======

You have to admit she has form in pulling votes. I have been dubious of the Labour idea that they will drop the Kyle amendment from Tuesday, and bring it in later, perhaps on Wednesday or Thursday. The risk of that approach is she could hold Tuesdays vote then pull the others. I wonder if these 'senior Tories' genuinely believe the EU will respond to such "pressure" or if is no more than a technique to reach the 29th so we drop out automatically.

I don't think she will pull Tuesday vote. I think it quite possible what she says immediately afterwards will show she will continue to push for her deal while doing her best to block any alternative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:24 PM

It would be good to think that the mods also observe.

Holmes to Watson: "You see, but you do not observe."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:59 PM

"No interaction at all, Steve. You know it makes sense :-)"
Spoilsport
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:46 PM

I wasn't interacting, Dave. I was making a purely objective, in this case eyebrow-raising, observation. Whoever it was who posted those two posts, I didnt interact, merely observe. It would be good to think that the mods also observe. But who knows.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM

No interaction at all, Steve. You know it makes sense :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 04:31 PM

An observation.

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming.


Eleven minutes later from the same poster:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

Backward man you are a tad behind the curve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:34 PM

We'll not need to pay bungs, Jim. Once we return to our rightful place in the world everyone will just do as we say. We never had to pay bungs before we joined the common market.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:26 PM

"Come March 29, or maybe April 1, there will be a return to cricket on the village green,"
Did you not hear about the plans to enclose all village greens in order to pay another bung to the DUP !!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:25 PM

Come March 29, or maybe April 1,
You have made the same slip up, Dave, that I did a while back and leapt from the 29th (30th in Brussels time) to the 1st April, omitting the 31st. But let's not draw attention to it - someone might notice...

Of course, the 1st April as all fool's day may have swayed us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM

I quite like warm beer, mash and spotted Dick ..............

However I am half way through a bottle of Chateau Neuf du Pape !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 02:49 PM

Of course there is good news about brexit, Raggy. Come March 29, or maybe April 1, there will be a return to cricket on the village green, hot summers and snowy winters. There will be lashings of ginger beer, girls in gingham dresses, boys will call us sir and Johnny Foreigner will know his place. There will be no need for froggy cheese, kraut sausage or eyetye plonk as warm beer, mash and spotted dick will, once again, rule the waves.

What could possibly go wrong?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 02:01 PM

I wonder if either of our two Brexiteers have anything to say about the 2 million potential new voters if there were to be a second vote.

I also wonder what our two Brexiteers have to say about the numerous Insurance, Banking and Finance organisations programming some of their affairs to leave the UK.

I know I have asked this question many times, as yet I have not had a response.

....................???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:30 PM

Arw you really threatening me on Guido's behalf ?
Bring it on
Thought you might have been one of his employees


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

Backward man you are a tad behind the curve.

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/304.html

In this claim for judicial review, the Applicants contend that the Respondent's decision to notify and the notification itself were unlawful because they were based upon the result of a referendum that was itself unlawful as a result of corrupt and illegal practices, notably offences of overspending committed by those involved in the campaign to leave the EU. Alternatively, it is said that the Respondent erred in law in not responding to the subsequent evidence of those practices as it emerged.

On 10 December 2018, following a full day's hearing, Ouseley J refused permission to proceed with the judicial review on the basis of both delay and want of merit, and ordered the Applicants to pay the Respondent's costs summarily assessed in the sum of £17,256.

The Applicants applied for permission to appeal that Order. That application came before this court on 21 February 2019 when, after hearing substantial argument, we indicated that we would refuse permission to appeal on all grounds and would give our reasons at a later date. In this judgment, I set out my reasons for that refusal.

with any luck it cost them loadsamoney!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM

A blog from a right wing site to show that Switzerland is not as democratic as it seems "shameful behaviour - now we really are blowing for tugs (after your "paado" accusation efforts sank without trace)
Would you rather dismiss it as "left wing shite" as you usually do ?
As I said before - only the useful bits get through your trawling
nets
Weeren't you the feller passing around the "free poor, misjudged Tommy Robinson" petitions ?
You're a not particularly funny (and certainly not very bright) joke
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM

"As Brexit will probably affect them far more, and at least far longer, than it will the aging population who voted for Brexit it would not seem unreasonable to have another vote."

And one free from the baleful, deceitful, criminal influence of one Arron Banks, preferably.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:06 AM

Something that many of us commented on at the time was that the decision to leave the UK was founded on the voting of predominantly older people.

This has been borne out by a recent survey of the 2 million people eligible to vote now who were too young at the time. The survey shows that 74% of them would vote remain.

As Brexit will probably affect them far more, and at least far longer, than it will the aging population who voted for Brexit it would not seem unreasonable to have another vote.

Young voters

However I cannot see the Brexiteers being swayed by this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:34 AM

Why on earth are you giving a link to an obscure blog that is linked to the following:
This entry was posted in Small States and tagged AfD, BNP, British National Party, Burka, burqa, citizenship, Front National, immigration, ius sanguinis, Nationale Aktion, Nationale Aktion gegen die Überfremdung von Volk und Heimat, naturalization, overforeignization, populism, right-wing, Schweizerische Volkspartei, SVP, Swiss People's Party, Switzerland, Trump, Überfremdung on February 5, 2017

All that is missing is a reference to Nazis and Jews.
Shameful behaviour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:25 AM

David W need to remember that this poster only ever posts ONLY THE USEFUL BITS after the awkward truths have been carefully removed
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:24 AM

However the fact you all attack the messenger suggests his message is not only accurate but hits the places others cannot reach.


https://leveson.sayit.mysociety.org/hearing-8-february-2012/mr-paul-staines

A response to the Leveson enquiry:
Something that I think you might have overlooked is that I'm a citizen of a free republic, and since 1922 I don't have to pay attention to what a British judge orders my countrymen to do.


Mr Barr

And at times when you are breaking big news stories, what sort of visitor rates do you attract then?
Mr Paul Staines

I think at the peak we were getting 100,000 an hour. In an average month, we would have certainly hundreds of thousands, maybe up to a million readers, or a million different browsers come to our website.
Mr Barr

You operate also on Twitter. How many followers do you have?
Mr Paul Staines

60,000-odd.


Do you think a million browsers a day come for a diet of horse shit?

Your argument is vacuous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:17 AM

Yes, well Iains, direct democracy might work here too if only we had Swiss people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM

"It does not automatically follow that their pronouncements are correct."
Said the feller who insists on interminably infects this forum with the opinions of a masked criminal blogger"


My perception is that 'the feller who insists on interminably infecting this forum with the opinions of a masked criminal blogger' is the only one here gormless enough to fall for the masked criminal blogger's horse-shit. So, in that context, whatever gormless horse-shit he posts is completely irrelevant. Hence, most of the sane ones here ignore him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:23 AM

"It does not automatically follow that their pronouncements are correct."
Said the feller who insists on interminably infects this forum with the opinions of a masked criminal blogger
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM

The problem is not whether a direct democracy can work in a written constitution which describes how all the bits fit together - it can - or whether an evolved, indirect democracy like ours can work - it can - but how you get both approaches to fit together without any arbitration system to say which has priority when. And it is not good enough for either approach to declare 'we do'.

But in the light of crucial defining decisions being taken in the next few days, or being shirked, I would suggest a debate on the merits of direct or indirect democracy is perhaps not the main issue of importance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 06:40 AM

Switzerland’s direct democracy system has worked very well since 1848.

We have people claiming to be well educated scientists posting on this forum. It does not automatically follow that their pronouncements are correct.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 06:19 AM

A Friend just sent me this from one of teh Irish papers
Telling us what we already knew, of course
Jim
Science has dim view of Brexiteers’ brains
Jonathan Leake
Science Editor
It is a belief that some pro- Europeans already hold dear but a group of scientists now claim to have confirmed it: Brexit voters are less bright than remainers.
Researchers gave 11,225 volunteers psychological tests before the referendum and asked how they intended to vote. Results suggest that leavers tended to be less numerate, more impulsive and prone to accepting the unsupported claims of authoritarian figures.
“Compared with remain voters, leave voters displayed significantly lower levels of numeracy and appeared more reliant on impulsive thinking,” said the researchers, based at the University of Missouri.
Social scientists are increasingly interested in how personality affects voting. Authoritarian people, who favour conformity and obedience, make up about a third of the population. In America, they account for a higher proportion of voters for Donald Trump.
The research suggests that there may be similar divides in the UK. “Participants expressing an intent to vote to leave reported significantly higher levels of authoritarianism and conscientiousness... than those voting to remain,”
researchers said in a paper submitted to the Public Library of Science journal.
Nigel Farage, the MEP and former Ukip leader, said the research was “divisive and arrogant. Remain voters may have higher IQs but I’m not sure many could boil an egg or set up a business. They are well primed for the public sector and living off the taxpayer. The authoritarianism line is strange as leave voters want to be free while remain voters back an undemocratic authoritarian regime. What you can’t measure in IQ tests is patriotism which is a strong driver with leavers. Whether that’s rational or not is a separate question.”
Perhaps the key finding, however, is not about the brain power of leavers and remainers but the risk of using referendums to decide complex issues. Many voters, the scientists conclude, “lack the skills to critically evaluate information... raising a fundamental question as to whether direct democracy in the form of binary, winner- takes-all, referendums is an appropriate mechanism for deciding complicated political issues.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:17 AM

All part of the Deflection-Policy of the Tories, they do it on every issue - usually involving either inaccurate references to the last Labour government and the 2008 worldwide financial crash, or of the "Look over there - Corbyn anti-semitism/enemy of the people/friend of terrorists/allotment produce-show cheat" kind.

On this occasion they are trying to deflect the blame for their own incompetence and stupidity on to the EU's negotiating team. The BrexShiteer-Muppets might - or should that be will - fall for it, but those of us who aren't so stupid know where the blame truly lies, and it's not with the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 09:10 AM

From the Guardian:

Ms Leadsom said she was still hopeful of a breakthrough, but added it would depend on the EU "coming to the table and taking seriously the [UK's proposals]".


====

Still not understanding that the EU has no other obligation than to defend its own interests, and that it is the EU not the UK that decides what the EU's interests are, I see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 09:17 AM

And that is precisely what I predicted when she became PM.

FINGERS CROSSED!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 08:51 AM

PM says if deal fails we may never leave EU

Sounds like the end game to me.

If she succeeds she will claim the credit for getting the best deal

If she fails she will claim others sabotaged it and it is their fault

Gawd, I hate politicians...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM

Laters poll from Northern counties show 76% opposed to British policy, 67% opposed to DUP handling of Bexit and 67% wish to remain in Europe
Britain is now relying on the support of a party that does not have its own people's support
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM

From the Washington Post

Britain is one of the richest and most
advanced democracies in the world. It is
currently locked in a room, babbling away to
itself hysterically while threatening to blow
its own kneecaps off. This is what nationalist
populism does to a country.


Very astute :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Mar 19 - 04:51 PM

And so it goes on.

Today Primark has informed 200 of it's staff they must move to Dublin or face redundancy.


Primark

Any good news about Brexit yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 06:47 PM

Every time I linger on the topic of Brexit I think of that classic Goon Show moment (on the radio):

Narrator:
"Cheer up, dear listeners, Old England isn't finished yet. . .

It's finished. . .


NOW!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 04:21 PM

To my knowledge no one has ever suggested that Brexit would not have a detrimental effect on Ireland, in particular, and the EU in general.

IF perchance I am incorrect perhaps you could show us all the post(s) that said as much.

However I will not hold my breath as I know you will be unable to do so.

Idiot.

9 and counting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 11:12 AM

Germany’s prestigious IFO Institut has crunched the numbers on the economic impact of no deal on 44 countries and predicted that Ireland would be hit three times harder than the UK by a no-deal Brexit, taking a massive 8.16% hit to their economy. Guido hears that Ireland has been the main EU27 country holding out against any reference to the UK’s basic Vienna Convention treaty rights over the backstop.

I stated this some months back and was laughed at.

It is not a situation for anyone to laugh over. Ireland's intransigence will create no winners, just losers.

https://order-order.com/2019/03/06/german-economists-no-deal-will-hit-ireland-three-times-harder-uk/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 06:06 AM

David Carter.I suspect in the US the agenda is driven by multinational
"food" companies whereas in the EU it is driven by faceless bureaucrats.
Difficult to determine which is the better for looking after the consumer. Superficially it would appear no contest. In detail perhaps a slightly different story emerges. Neither is on the side of angels.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM

Try to ignore him, David.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM

I wonder what the yanks on here think about their chlorinated chicken, hormonal beef and the rest. I suppose not many of them bother clicking on brexit threads (which could indicate that they enjoy a higher level of sanity than we Brits).

I'm reminded of the graffiti I saw on a toilet cubicle wall when I was at Imperial College in 1969: "Eat shit. 150,000,000 flies can't be wrong."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 05:26 AM

Iains, thats a diversionary tactic, this isn't about eating insects, it is about bacteria, growth hormones and antibiotics. Yes I would be prepared to eat insects. But not ones produced to US food hygiene standards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 04:56 AM

What bothers me a bit about the chlorinated chicken spat is how it is all being presented about food safety. When the subject cropped up a while back a survey suggested that animal welfare was a big concern to UK consumers, not just food safety.

How convenient it is to forget that.


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