BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 06:23 PM

Also English is stuffed with sayings like "the straw that broke the camel's back" And "juggling too many balls" and stories like "how the arena became the king of the birds." Using the juggling metaphor, if it took juggling a specific four to run the business with difficulty, and adding a fifth called Brexit caused everything to be dropped it would be perfectly reasonable to blame the Brexit ball. True, you could have got rid of one of the others and juggled successfully, but you would have been losing one of the key four needed.

Blaming Brexit for a demise can be perfectly reasonable, even if it is comparatively small effect, should it be enough to tip the business over the edge.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 06:25 PM

How the wren became king of the birds. I hate autocorrect! I only tolerate it because my typing on the phone would be even less decipherable without it...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 07:20 PM

Essentially it’s the same fallacy you get when climate change deniers assert that, if there turned out to be natural factors that contribute to undesirable change, that means that any contribution to such changes from human activities can be of no importance, and that efforts to deal with them are misguided.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 07:49 PM

As we approach the horror of brexit, Kevin, denial has become the brexiteers' mantra. It's notable that, along with that, we are hearing less and less about the "opportunities" that brexit provides. Gone bit quiet, has that. But let's look on the bright side: we have a deal with the Swiss. At least we won't have to pay more for our cuckoo clocks. There's an upside to everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:30 AM

The labour luvvies will not like this!
You heard it from Guido!

Labour Split

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:36 AM

Much like the huge divisions within the conservative party really.

Oh course they will be brushed under the carpet by our resident Brexiteers.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:42 AM

For my part, I have no problem with any MP deciding they will vote according to their beliefs and judgement rather than the whip. In fact, the more, the better. And that applies to all parties.

I note that the breakaway people are calling themselves a group, not a party. That may just be a matter of where they are in the process but it may reflect that that there are enough differences between them they think a new party is a non-starter. They will of course be aware that our system is very unforgiving for new parties as well.


And isn't it an intriguing detail that 8 chairs were put out and seven MPs resigned? A miscount or a no-show I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:54 AM

I've always thought that any MP who stood and got elected on a party ticket, supported by party workers and party money, then left the party, should step down as an MP as well. They are there under false pretences. Anyway, good riddance. They have all worked to serially undermine Corbyn. Now they'll have to do it as pink Tories. And that'll get them nowhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 06:47 AM

Anyway back to Brexit.

I recall being told that nations across the world would be falling over themselves to have trade deals with the UK.

Now it seems that Japan are not too happy with our approach and this is on top of China cancelling trade talks last week.

Take into account Trumps America first approach and we don't seem to having nations beating a path to our door.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 07:01 AM

In the search for good news, we should not overlook that the UK has struck a deal with the US to in effect roll over an existing EU agreement.

Ok, "keeping what we have" is perhaps stretching the definition of good news too far, but it doesn't immediately look like bad news ... assuming there have been no unpublished additional agreements of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 08:28 AM

Nice twist on Brexit
Seven right wing Labour politicians (4 with direct links to Israel) have left the Labour Party with a view to forming their own party
They give "antisemitism" and Brexit for their reason for doing so
One who isn't involved with Israel was one of the few successful in refusing to reveal the details of her expenses during the scandal
Good riddance to them - perhaps we can see a continuance of progressive Labour policies without being hampered by a yearning for a return to the good old days of 'New Labour's' "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and duck palaces for politicians pets
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 10:09 AM

Strong rumours that Honda are to quit the UK post Brexit and close their Swindon factory in 2022 with the loss of 3,500 jobs.

No doubt some will say this is a small price to pay.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 11:31 AM

"Strong rumours that Honda are to quit the UK "
Must have an abscess
As they say Abscess makes the fart go "Honda"
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 12:16 PM

I've always thought that any MP who stood and got elected on a party ticket, supported by party workers and party money, then left the party, should step down as an MP as well. They are there under false pretences.

By extension this should also apply to all those MPs elected on a brexit ticket and now busy betraying it.

No doubt your whimsy will find a way to weasel out and refute the suggestion.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: bobad
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 12:16 PM

Seven right wing Labour politicians (4 with direct links to Israel) have left the Labour Party with a view to forming their own party

“I am leaving behind a culture of bullying, bigotry and intimidation,”

There you have it in a nutshell.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 12:26 PM

Israel has nothing to do with brexit. I know that Eurovision is from Tel Aviv this year but, trust me, that is nothing to do with the EU. If you want to discuss Israel, start a different thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 12:46 PM

I believe Jim first raised the issue. Why not take it up with him?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 01:29 PM

The reasons given for their resignation was Antisemitism and Brexit
I have no intention of censoring the news report - I suggest nobody else tries to

Honda is now closing down its British branch because of Brexit Branch
No doubt we will now be told that they are crap cars
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 01:43 PM

Closing Swindon has repercussions far beyond the loss of the 3500 jobs. There are disruptions to supply chains with other manufacturers and there's the loss of skills, not to speak of the social consequences in the town. Thatcher enticed the Japanese carmakers here, promising them an illustrious market and the free flow of materials. We've ditched that promise via brexit so they're ditching us. That was never daubed on the side of a bus, was it? I've gone against my own grain and decided to back another referendum. The country will vote remain and that's the only way we're going to stop the country being wrecked. The seven MPs are despicable and totally unprincipled. They all used party money to campaign and they all used the party structure to get elected, and they all stood on the Labour manifesto and they all increased their majority. They should stand down and fight by-elections. I wish them a miserable oblivion.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 01:54 PM

They should stand down and fight by-elections.
Hows about first getting shot of Fiona Onasanya as MP.
Priorities me boy, Priorities!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 06:58 AM

The announcement by Honda can be found Here

Here is part of the announcement:
Katsushi Inoue, Chief Officer for European Regional Operations, Honda Motor Co., Ltd., and President, Honda Motor Europe said; "In light of the unprecedented changes that are affecting our industry, it is vital that we accelerate our electrification strategy and restructure our global operations accordingly. As a result, we have had to take this difficult decision to consult our workforce on how we might prepare our manufacturing network for the future. This has not been taken lightly and we deeply regret how unsettling today's announcement will be for our people."
. . .
Honda's European HQ will continue to be located in the UK. It will be focused on serving the needs of our European customers.

This gives a good reason for the restructuring (and thus the closure of the plant) and does not mention Brexit.
This is not selective quoting. The rest of the page doesn't mention Brexit either.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 07:12 AM

What the hell else are they to say Nigel ?
HONDA ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES - PLENTY MORE TO COME
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 07:23 AM

It's just brexiteers in denial, Jim. Knowing that they have lost the 'everything is going to be ok' argument they have moved on to 'the news is all that bad' and 'it's nothing to do with brexit anyway'. Why they just can't admit they were wrong is beyond me.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 07:35 AM

Not much talk any more about those golden opportunities post-brexit either. Doctor Liam hasn't done very well, has he, apart from ensuring cheaper cuckoo clocks. And I can't imagine things will get much better if we continue to piss Trump off over failed jihadi fighters and send warships to float past China.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 07:38 AM

You may be correct on this one Nigel.

I did notice you didn't post anything a word when I said that one of my insurance companies was relocating some of it's operations to Germany though.

I did notice you didn't post anything when I posted that Nissan was not going to product it's new model in Sunderland, due in part to Brexit.

I did notice you didn't post anything when I posted about other Insurance and Banking organisations relocating some of their operations to Ireland.

Bit of a pattern forming here ...........??

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 08:13 AM

In fairness though, and trying to be fair to the 'in denial' Brexshiteers, it must be very hard to face facts and publicly admit you've been completely sucked-in by a campaign of deceit masterminded by a tiny cadre of immensely-wealthy tax-avoiders and, as a result, behaved like a stupid, feeble-minded cunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 10:03 AM

Ians said that there would be no food tariffs post Brexit. Gove says otherwise. Lamb and beef almost certainly. Possibly cereals. Aha, it's a good job we don't live on potato, though it looks as if some of us may do so in the future?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 10:08 AM

BW, I'm curious who you would vote for in a a stupid, feeble-minded cunt contest: your in denial Brexshiteers, or our in denial Trumpistas.

Or is this more of a 'primus inter pares' sort of thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 10:58 AM

Mossback - I'm fortunate to have a decent brain, and I'm prepared to use it. I wouldn't vote for either. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 11:02 AM

Leeks, not potatoes, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 12:23 PM

HONDA:
In a statement on Tuesday, Honda said it would close the factory west of London as part of global restructuring of its manufacturing network to prepare for the age of electric vehicles.

The closure of Honda’s sole manufacturing site in Europe is expected to lead to the loss of 3,500 British jobs and deals a massive blow to the UK’s car industry as the country prepares to leave the EU.

The company also said it would close its factory in Turkey, where it employs 1,100 people and produces about 50,000 cars a year, of which 20 per cent are exported to Europe.
Analysts say the Swindon closure is long overdue. Honda had been scaling back its struggling UK operation for years and its market share in Europe remains tiny.
the new EU-Japan trade deal and declining market conditions in Europe likely affected the decision by Japan’s third-largest carmaker.

and of course the remainiacs carefully overlook the following:
The negotiations of the EU-Japan free trade agreement are now in the advanced stages. The latest statistics show that Japan is the fifth most important destination for European passenger cars and ranks second among countries exporting cars to the EU.Nearly 575,000 Japanese cars with a total value of €9 billion were imported into the EU in 2016. A trade pact that will remove EU tariffs of 10 percent on Japanese cars and 3 percent on most car parts is in the offing. Cheaper to now produce in Japan and export.
Awkward things facts! Now what was that about brexit?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 12:44 PM

Wonder if the Irish will be thrown out of Brexit's Baave New Britain
I can think of one "poor mistreated Tommy Robinson" hand-wringer who would welcome the idea
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 12:52 PM

and who would that be little jimmie?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 02:08 PM

A glimpse of reality appears from the fog.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 06:00 PM

That link has changed since I posted it. It still contains what was the main theme before, namely:


=====

[May] was forced to admit to Conservative MPs that the Irish backstop could not be replaced by the “Malthouse compromise” – proposals for a free trade agreement with as-yet-unknown technology to avoid customs checks on the Irish border.

=====

Not surprisingly, May seems to have wobbled to say maybe in time it can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 12:54 AM

if there is a second referendum,imo the referendum should have only two choices remain or leave,any pissing about with inclusion of mays deal[ as a voting option] will only split a vote and could prevent an overall majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 01:42 AM

An interesting piece from The Irish Tmes today.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 04:16 AM

"Irish Times"
Interesting critique of the Labour Party in a leader article yesterday - it tend to show a failure to fully understand the problems faced by a party attempting to cleanse itself of leadership little different from those on the other side of The House, but its opening statement deserves a place in political history

"The British Labour Party should be on the cusp of a historic triumph. The main opposition party faces one of the most incompetent administrations in any major European state in the post-war era: a lurching, hopelessly riven Conservative Party led by a zombie figurehead, kept in power by an ultra-conservative single-issue outfit from Northern Ireland, and unable to come up with a workable policy on the most consequential issue of the past half a century"."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 04:51 AM

Jim:
Unfortunately, for once I totally agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 05:18 AM

Welcoming Hatton and Livingstone back in the fold and allowing momentum to become as divisive as the banned militant tendencywill probably destroy the Labour party and the undercurrent of antisemitism allegations still swim around, brought to the fore by the recent defections. Corbyn cannot be trusted and his opinions are more changeable than the weather.
   It does the cause of democracy no favours when the opposition party
has the tail wagging the dog, and the dog is on the point of expiry.
steptoe senior is an apt analogy, he is tottering over a heap of rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 07:03 AM

So now three Conservatives have joined the independent group. I don't think these are the last from either side.

It is interesting that both parties are saying "We are a broad church." It doesn't matter whether *you* think you are a broad church. What matters is if others agree. And in this case, from both sides, some don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 07:26 AM

As you know 40 days and 40 nights from now my UK brothers and sisters face a no deal hard Brexit that will trigger the beginning of a shortage of medicine and food. On top of this the the border with northern Ireland makes trade crazy and travel restrictions in general will be insane.
I thought you guys would have sorted this but now even I am truely scared of the coming suffering.

Ignoring the new policies will be rampant along with black markets springing up will become the new crimes. I am in no position to speculate what can not be forseen but what i do see is worse than Trump tariffs times 10.

John Oliver has compared your referendum to a surgeon that gives the patient two options and the patient accidentaly chose the fatal option.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 10:12 AM

John Oliver has compared your referendum to a surgeon that gives the patient two options and the patient accidentaly chose the fatal option.

Very astute observation, Donuel. It gets worse though. The surgeon has now explained that the procedure will be fatal and the patient is still insisting that he goes ahead with it!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 10:23 AM

"The surgeon has now explained that the procedure will be fatal and the patient is still insisting that he goes ahead with it!"
A perfect plot for Holby City - not too god for the people of Britain
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 10:55 AM

May has managed to nause up the offer of visa free travel to the EU by whining about the description of Gibralter as a British Colony. Its just words, but this could mess up the travel plans of millions.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 09:09 AM

45% increase in prices of basic foods on WTO terms. I cannot afford this. Source: The Independent Newspaper.

Retailers have warned that a no-deal Brexit will lead to “unaffordable” price hikes on food and drink for customers in both the UK and Ireland as well as causing shortages of some everyday items.

Leaders of retail bodies said reverting to World Trade Organisation tariffs could make the cost of making fresh food and drink available to consumers increase by as much as 45 per cent- which is likely to be passed on to customers.

Food and drink production will be made more expensive due to a combination of higher tariffs and new regulatory checks, according to Aodhan Connolly, director of the Northern Ireland Retail Consortium, Thomas Burke, director of Retail Ireland and William Bain, the British Retail Consortium Europe and international policy adviser.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:34 AM

The news from Karen (if correct) will save the NHS a fortune and cure the obesity epidemic. Sounds like a win win to me!

I do not believe obesity was a common problem during wartime rationing, or immediately after when rationing was at its most severe.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 06:17 AM

Iains is talking rubbish.

In the war the ration was calculated to be nutritionally adequate. People ate it because (black market aside) they had no choice. What is being talked of post Brexit is increases in precisely the fresh food that is an important part of a balanced diet.

It isn't just about how much you eat, but about what you eat.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 06:21 AM

"Iains is talking rubbish."
Nah - he's gloating over the misfortunes of those who won't be able to feed their families
Nothing new there
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 07:28 AM

"Nah - he's gloating over the misfortunes of those who won't be able to feed their families
Nothing new there"

Says anglophobe little jimmie,the man applauding the return of Isis terrorist to unleash mayhem in Britain.
Sick or what?