BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:20 PM

Agreed, Pete. Cameron will forever be known not just as pig sticker but also the man who ran from a fight with the nicotine stained man-frog and then abdicated all responsibility for his failure.I

Stanron, thanks for the civil and honest answer. We may disagree but at least we can discuss. Who will share the responsibility if it does go wrong though? As far as I am concerned the ball is entirely with you - I.E. The leavers. Who else will be to blame for crashing out of the EU? Well, I suppose there is porky prick and the toad... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:39 PM

well some people who voted leave did not envisage a no deal brexit.
mean while I feel it is necessary to criticise the EU For signing MERCOSUR AGREEMENT.The EU bangs on about emissions and then signs an agreement with Brazil, a country that apparantly has 23 per cent of the cattle population of the world, second behind India 32 per cent. Ireland has 0.07 per cent. However while i am very critucal of the hypocrisy of the EU , I DO NOT AGREE WITH LEAVING IN A NO DEAL BREXIT

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:57 PM

"... it would be a very great gamble to remain in the EU. I see it as a nascent empire of evil. At it's base is deceit and a contempt of the individual. This is charmingly counterpointed by a clumsy incompetence and what I suspect will turn out to be a rather stupid intransigence."

And you're comparing this unfavourably with our putative major trading partners of the future, the US and China? And don't pretend to think that we won't "lose our sovereignty" in our dealings with them. We'll certainly lose our sovereignty over food standards and the NHS and we'll certainly have to toe the line over Hong Kong and hold our noses as we deal with the most repressive regime on earth. We will be minnows in a sea of sharks. We will do as we're told. Why, we might soon have to ditch the nuclear deal with Iran as a condition for trading with Trump. All this for kicking up a big fuss over the one percent of our GDP and none of our domestic laws that are tied up with the EU (and even that isn't all one-way: ask those stupid farmers who voted leave but who are about to lose their subsidies...), and an immigration policy that has overwhelmingly benefited this country. You're old like me, you have your house and your pensions and your savings and you don't have to find a job, and brexit won't bother you. You can fiddle while the country burns. And you know that, don't you. You'll have to pay a lot more for your veg and wine, though. You'll manage, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:06 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: You'll have to pay a lot more for your veg and wine, though.

Because the EU puts tariffs on foreign wine and food, after leaving we have the option to pay less for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:12 PM

non elected campaigners (like Farage) and are deciding to override Parliament

I hate to point out that the electorate gave Mr Farage and the Brexit party the largest number of seats of any one party in the EU.
You are 'avin a laff surely?

A recent yougov poll clearly demonstrated that MPs should do the bidding of the people. The majority voted for brexit. It is the MPs who are trying to overturn the people.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:32 PM

Farage is nor an elected member of the British parliament - the British peooe pissed his party out of existence democratically - stop seeling our democracy to a bumnch of has-been fascists
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:32 PM

Farage is nor an elected member of the British parliament - the British peooe pissed his party out of existence democratically - stop seeling our democracy to a bumnch of has-been fascists
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:37 PM

I tend to judge the integrity and worth of 'ordinary' folks by their 'heroes'...

Boris, Trump, Farage... hmmmmmm....?????

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:48 PM

Pretty much all non-EU imported food comes from countries with which the EU already has a free trade agreement. A lot from Africa. So the prices of virtually everything we eat will rise.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:55 PM

My apologise to the mods for not heeding their advice to 'ignore the troll' - won't happen again.
I thought it worthwhile to remind people that Britain is governed by representatives elected to Westminster, not to Brussels, or for that matter, to Washington or Moscow, especially those intending to be where they are for another month and a half
If Britain leavers the EU in October the present members of tye EU will be lining up at the dole queue looking for a job - the only voice Farage and his ilk will have is from the platform of a Tommy Robinson rally
Never thought I'd say it but I agree with Philip Hammond when he describes Johnson's taking orders from unelected scum like Farage as treachery
The Way things are going, if Johnson gets his way, parliamentary democracy will be a thing of the past and his opponents will be moving into some of the new prisons he's proposing to build
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 03:06 PM

I thought it worthwhile to remind people that Britain is governed by representatives elected to Westminster, not to Brussels,

I think it worthwhile to point out that Parliament is now subordinate to EU legislation and therefore governed by Brussels.

Despite denial, it is their avowed intention to proceed with
Federalism
Majority voting
Control of foreign policy
etc etc.
Parliament will simply become an anachronistic franking machine.

While Boris(blessed be his name) is following the wishes of the majority He is a staunch supporter of democracy. It is certain member of Parliament aided by a treacherous squeaker defying the electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 03:57 PM

Strange, innit, Jim, that we laud a weirdo Tory such as Hammond for telling it like it truly is. There is no mandate whatsoever for a no-deal brexit no matter how the "will of the people" notion is dressed up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 04:04 PM

"Jim, that we laud a weirdo Tory such as Hammond for telling it like it truly is."
Tis indeed
Would you mind telling our friend that Britain may be part of the EU but that organisation plays no part in the governance of England - trading partners have no say in its governance unless traitors like Johnson allow them to have
Patriots - I've shit 'em
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 04:05 PM

May as well give Tommy Robinson the crown
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 05:04 PM

Would you mind telling our friend that Britain may be part of the EU but that organisation plays no part in the governance of England

Since 1972 A total of 52741 laws have been introduced in the UK as a result of EU legislation.

Laws=Governance. Am I missing something here?

Strange, innit, Jim, that we laud a weirdo Tory such as Hammond for telling it like it truly is. There is no mandate whatsoever for a no-deal brexit no matter how the "will of the people"

Which Hammond would that be?
The Hammond that argued that voters weren’t told before the referendum that voting to Leave could mean leaving without a deal.
or the Hammond that said " Let’s look for a moment now at the default option – the World Trade Organization rules, which is where we will end up if we leave the EU without a deal agreed.   For anyone who wants to ensure a clean break with the EU, the WTO is the only honest model."

I can even link to a Chatham House video of the lying git.(courtesy ofGuido of course)

https://order-order.com/2019/08/14/hammond-wto-honest-model/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 05:31 PM

Meanwhile the government is headed by someone who wrote in his
Pro-European article that the UK continued presence in the EU would be "a boon for for the world and for Europe" and "there is a market on our doorstep, ready for further exploitation by British firms. The membership fee seems rather small for that access. Why are we so determined to turn our back on it"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 05:37 PM

As Britain stands at present
Dying businesses
The crazies who backed Britain (Rees Mogg/Dyson immediately ulled their money out Dyson into Singapore, Rees Mogg into European Irland (would you believe!!!)
In order to survive, the Tory Party had to bung a terrorist linked party a billion of the taxpayers money
So they could survive in parliament they have elected a former foreign secretary who is a racist and whose diplomatic skills caused a woman journalist to e locked away in an Iranian prison, where she appears to be dying of the treatment she is receiving
His private life is such that his neighbours have to call the police to stop him beating the shit out of his partner
Those who elected him Prime minister refuse to back him and are intending to remove him with a vote of no confidence
He is intending to over-ride Parliament if he can’t get his way and is now in the pocket of a disgraced ex politician who got Brexit through with th aid of a faked racist poster showing Britain being invaded by foreigners
Major businesses are abandoning Britain y the dozen, the economy is in decline and recession is now a reality
And Britain is no nearer leaving Europe than it was after the referendum

Isn’t it a shame they stopped making the carry on films – Carry O Britannia could be an Oscar Winner
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 05:56 PM

If dyson ulled his money to singapore I wonder how he is the third highest individual taxpayer in the UK?

His private life is such that his neighbours have to call the police to stop him beating the shit out of his partner
Really you must have been told more than the mainstream media, or are you simply making it up as usual. The accusation is libel you realise.

You really do post nonsense. As well as spellcheck perhaps you should invest in fact check.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 06:37 PM

Well the groundswell is that there is no mandate for no deal and that any enforcement of no deal would be unconstitutional, undemocratic and would render its executor toast. I want him to be toast but I don't want the other bits.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 06:57 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Well the groundswell is that there is no mandate for no deal and that any enforcement of no deal would be unconstitutional, undemocratic and would render its executor toast. I want him to be toast but I don't want the other bits.

I don't know if the stereotype of the ostrich putting it's head in the sand is really a fact in nature, but your refusal to acknowledge what is actually enshrined in law reminds me of it. No deal does not have to be enforced. It already has been. By Parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 07:55 PM

No it hasn't. Maybe you live in a country other than the UK. How would I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 02:58 AM

Stanron, there is no mandate for a no deal brexit. There is obviously no mandate amongst MPs and the question of no deal has not been put to the electorate. So just who is giving BoJo this mandate? No mandate = unconstitutional and undemocratic as stated. He may be acting with a mandate to leave the EU, but I doubt it anyone believes there is a majority for a no deal brexit anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:30 AM

I am not arguing that Parliament, as a whole, wants a no deal exit. My point is that, as things stand and if no further legislation is passed, on the first of September we will have left the EU without an exit agreement. The law stating this has already been passed. Guess who passed it. Parliament passed it!

Now, if Parliament wants to prevent a no deal exit, Parliament will have to alter the legislation it has already passed!

And these are the people some of you insist know better than us and should be allowed to tell us what is good for us!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:31 AM

"Carry O Britannia"
Should have been "Carry on Brexit" of course - posted in a hurry

BRITAIN STANDING ON HER OWN TWO FEET
PATRIOT TO THE WALLET

FLAG-WAGGERS UNITE

A £TRILLION LEAVING BRITAIN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:54 AM

It is true, that in order to prevent catastrophe, Parliament need to pu aside their differences, unite around a temporary leader such as Ken Clarke, and pass legislation. Then we can maybe get the country back on track. If they do not do that, catastrophe looms. In such a case we would indeed be better off with direct rule from Brussels, although I don't think Brussels is set up to do that, sadly.

We had a similar situation in 1688. A despotic monarch had set out to crush all opposition, and had just convened the Bloody Assize. Parliament invited the Dutch in to restore order and put the country back on the right track. Discontent rumbled on for decades, but in hindsight it was clearly the right thing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:14 AM

What a good idea, David C. Let's get the Dutch in as soon as we can. Everything will be far more laid back than it is now :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:15 AM

Of course if we crash out no 35billion wings its way to Brussels and French farmers will take a subsidy cut. With yellow vests still on the prowl, revolting French farmers and Germany galloping into recession,
the EU will find that singing "All things bright and beautiful" simply will not hack it! Then there are slight problems in Italy, and shares in Deutsche Bank are on a journey to the center of the earth.
We really are better off out of the fiasco.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 05:01 AM

That money has to be paid, come what may. It has been agreed, and it is owed. If the UK tries to renege on its debts, it will be shut out of all financial markets for good. And probably cut off as well, there is no way anything can get in or out of the UK without crossing EU waters or airspace.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 05:14 AM

Talk past him, David, not to him. You know where that always leads us. We're doing quite well at the moment.

A no-deal brexit will result in thousands of farms going out of business. Tariffs on exports and a massive drop in subsidies will see to that. The leader of the US farming lobby has said that we will have to accept US standards in order to have a deal. That means not only chlorine-washed chicken (which allows US producers to get away with lower hygiene and welfare standards in the production chain) but also GM produce and hormone-fed meat. We can't compete with that. They'll have us by the short 'n' curlies. Sovereignty lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 05:16 AM

The remainers get more hysterical with every passing day!


and here is some more nonsense:
Hickory, dickory, dock,
The mouse ran up the clock;
The clock struck one,
And down he run,
Hickory, dickory, dock.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 05:23 AM

Compo's cunning plan to become PM by stealth/coup is not well received by some.

Anna Soubry MP?
@Anna_Soubry
1/4 I am disappointed Jeremy Corbyn did not include me in his letter especially as there are five MP members of our party.
Our exclusion and the preference for a General Election rather than an immediate People’s Vote leads me to conclude this is nothing more than a stunt.

Meanwhile we have a few more weeks of the silly season while they all squabble amongst themselves.
The Brexiteers are wisely keeping their powder dry for the main event.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 05:25 AM

"Talk past him, David, not to him"
Amen to that
What I can't understand is why the Brexiteers here with degrees of intelligence don't care enough about Britain to even deny what is happening to Britain
I was speaking to my Welsh optician a couple of days ago - he is now panicking about what is happening to our future as Brits living in Ireland
He said Brexteets he has spoken to seem to have taken the three wisew monkeys stance, see nowt, hear nowt, say nowt
I learned recently that I have lost some of the benefits we were given as pensioners in expectation of Britain crashing out - there are several million of us all over Europe now in the same boat
Many will be forced to return to Britain jobless ad possibly homeless
The way employment now works in Britain, they'll be lucky if they can get jobs stacking shelves in Tescos
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 06:25 AM

If they are pensioners why would they need a job stacking shelves? They will get a pension entitlement of a guaranteed minimum even if their NI contributions are incomplete. More project fear!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 06:29 AM

Much more sensible to consult the oracle than to rely on tittle tattle!


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-nationals-in-the-eu-benefits-and-pensions-in-a-no-deal-scenario

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 06:49 AM

SIGH.....!!!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 07:05 AM

MORE PANIC-MONGERING FROM THE LOONEY LEFT
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 03:51 AM

HERE'S BREXIT
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 04:16 PM

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has insisted he should be caretaker prime minister to stop a 'disastrous' no-deal Brexit. His proposal has been knocked back by Lib-dems and pro-remain Tories.
It has the makings of a new Carry On film
. "Carry on Squabbling"
Meanwhile Tic Toc !

Ecclesiastes 10:2
A wise man's heart inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 04:32 PM

Somebody fancies himself an aristocrat?

From here

The French Revolutionary era was where the terms Left-wing politics and Right-wing politics first originated.

The reason for the terms to become used at all was the seating of the ancien régime of France at that time. The aristocrats sat on the right, and the commoners sat on the left. So these terms evolved to mean so that right-wing politics refer to politics for aristocratic and royal interests, while left-wing politics refer to republicanism, socialism, and civil liberties.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 06:02 AM

Back to Brexit
From this morning's Sunday Times

Jim Carroll

OPERATION CHAOS: Whitehall’s secret no-deal plan leaked
The Sunday Times obtains the government’s classified Yellowhammer’report in full
Rosamund Urwin and Caroline Wheeler

Britain faces shortages of fuel, food and medicine, a three-month melt¬down at its ports, a hard border with Ireland and rising costs in social care in the event of a no-deal Brexit, according to an unprece¬dented leak of government docu¬ments that lay bare the gaps in contingency planning.
The documents, which set out the most likely aftershocks of a no-deal Brexit rather than worst- case scenarios, have emerged as the UK looks increasingly likely to crash out of the EU without a deal.
Compiled this month by the Cab¬inet Office under the codename Operation Yellowhammer, the dos¬sier offers a rare glimpse into the covert planning being carried out by the government to avert a cata¬strophic collapse in the nation’s infrastructure.
The file, marked “official-sensitive” - requiring security clearance on a “need to know” basis - is remarkable because it gives a comprehensive assessment of the UK’s readiness for a no-deal Brexit.
It states that the public and busi¬nesses remain largely unprepared for no deal and that growing “ÉU exit fatigue” has hampered contin¬gency planning which has stalled since the UK’s original departure date in March.
A senior Whitehall source said: “This is not Project Fear - this is the most realistic assessment of what the public face with no deal. These are likely, basic, reasonable scenarios - not the worst case.”
The revelations include:

* The UK government expects the return of a hard border in Ireland as current plans to avoid widespread checks will prove “unsustainable”; this may spark protests, road block¬ages and “direct action”

* Logjams caused by months of border delays could “affect fuel distribution”, potentially disrupting the fuel supply in London and the southeast of England

* Up to 85% cf lorries using the main Channel crossings “may not be ready” for French customs and could face delays of up to 2 1/2 days

* Significant disruption at ports will last up to three months before the flow of traffic “improves” to 50-70% of the current rate

* Petrol import tariffs, which the government has set at 0%, will “inadvertently” lead to the closure of two oil refineries, 2,000 job losses, widespread strike action and disruptions to availability

* Passenger delays at EU airports, St Pancras, Eurotunnel and Dover

* Medical supplies will “be vulnerable to severe extended delays” as three-quarters of the UK’s medicines enter the country via the main Channel crossings

*The availability of fresh food will
be reduced and prices will rise. This th could hit “vulnerable groups” Sp

*Potential clashes between UK wl and European Economic Area fishing vessels amid predictions that 282 ships will sail in British waters illegally on Brexit day        
* Protests across the UK, which Ui may “require significant amounts of police resources]

* Rising costs will hit social care, with “smaller providers impacted within 2-3 months and larger providers 4-6 months after exit”

* Gibraltar will face delays of more than four hours at the border with Spain “for at least a few months”, which are likely to “adversely impact” its economy

The revelations come as Boris Johnson signals that he would set a date for a general election after the UK has left the EU if Jeremy Corbyn succeeds in a vote of no confidence - preventing rebels from being able to stop a no-deal Brexit.
Johnson is preparing to hold talks with France’s president, Emmanuel Macron, and Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, ahead of this week’s G7 summit in Biarritz. But No 10 was last night playing down any prospect of a Brexit breakthrough and Germany believes no deal is “highly likely”.
The leak of the YeUowhammer dossier underlines the frustration within Whitehall over the lack of transparency surrounding preparations for leaving the EU. “Successive UK governments have a long history of failing to prepare their citizens to be resilient for their own emergencies,” said a Cabinet Office source.
The absence of a clear picture of the UK’s future relationship with the EU has hindered preparations as it “does not provide a concrete situation for third parties to prepare for”, the document states.
Some of the bleakest predictions relate to goods crossing the French border. The file says that on the first day of no deal between “50% and 85% of HGVs travelling via the short channel straits [the main crossings between France and England] may not be ready for French customs, reducing the flow of freight lorries to between 40- 60%”
of current levels”. Unready lorries will “fill the ports and block flow” and the worst disruption to the main crossings could last for “up to three months before it improves by a significant level, to around 50-70%” of current levels.
Despite Johnson repeatedly saying during the Tory leadership cam¬paign that there will be “clean drinking water” in the event of no deal, the document raises the possibility that a failure in the chemical supply chain could “affect up to 100,000s of people”.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 06:27 AM

This talk of an interim government is premature. There are hoops that still have to be jumped through first.

However.

Here's what I really think. This country is still just about a democracy. If the government falls, any interim administration should first be attempted by the leader of the opposition and no-one else. The people who are saying they won't work under Corbyn are playing into the hands of Johnson and will guarantee a no-deal brexit. Soft-right Tories such a Soubry, Grieve and co are letting silly ideology get in the way of the country's best interests (which, of course, they claim to recognise). The idiot-leader of the LibDems is labouring under the time-honoured LibDem delusion that the LibDems are going to be in charge anytime soon so is stupidly distancing herself from Corbyn (but note her rapid back-tracking). Yep, the LibDems who lied about tuition fees and enabled ten years of misery for the working classes and who made brexit possible by shoring up Cameron. The LibDems, unprincipled Tories in reality, who will do absolutely ANYTHING to get their feet under the cabinet table. And they think we won't mention it in the next election campaign.

Unfortunately, though it's yet to be electorally tested, I think that Corbyn's star has fallen. There's no time to replace him just now, so we work with him now or we get a no-deal brexit. There's nothing for it. No-one has to promise to enact Labour policies. There will be an election very soon in any case. It would be a single-issue administration, an issue on which the overwhelming majority of MPs supposedly agree. Time for the holding of noses. It won't be for long.

One last thing. The people who are proposing Harriet Harman (fer chrissake) or Keir Starmer as alternatives to Jezza are liars. If these right-wing ex-Blairites get their way, they know that Corbyn will be fatally undermined and won't be able to pick up the reins again. The ulterior motives are flying around all over the place in our politics. You wouldn't think there was a national emergency on, would you!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 06:50 AM

Johnson has already said he will over-ride Parliament to get Brexit through - bang goes your 'democracy' with one bing of the tweet key
This secret document is preparation for a coup, in my opinion
I'm beginning to think the promises of more prisons, longer sentences and the returns of practices long abandoned, like Suss, are not just sops to the electorate - they are moves to strengthen the position of the establishment (which, in the past, has been used to bring the members of that establishment into line with the wishes of the top people)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 07:49 AM

Democracy states we should have left the EU long ago. Fact!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 07:54 AM

Wrong Iains.

A small majority of the people who voted said they wanted to leave.

Not a majority of the people please note.

At no time do I ever recall a time frame being laid down and agreed to.

That I think is a figment of your imagination.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 08:11 AM

The Brish Govenment are now preparing to take emergency measures because Brexit has proved an overwhelming fuck-up - fact
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 09:22 AM

No counter argument shaw?

A small majority of the people who voted said they wanted to leave.
Not a majority of the people please note.

Leave         17,410,742         51.89%
Remain         16,141,241         48.11%
Valid votes         33,551,983         99.92%
Invalid or blank votes         25,359         0.08%
Total votes         33,577,342         100.00%
Registered voters/turnout         46,500,001         72.21%
A clear and distinct majority. Remember a majority of just one is required.

At no time do I ever recall a time frame being laid down and agreed to. I do!


Invocation of Article 50 occurred on 29 March 2017, when Sir Tim Barrow, the Permanent Representative of the United Kingdom to the European Union, formally delivered by hand a letter signed by Prime Minister Theresa May to Donald Tusk, the President of the European Council in Brussels. The letter also contained the United Kingdom's intention to withdraw from the European Atomic Energy Community (EAEC or Euratom). This means that the UK was scheduled to cease being a member of the EU at the end of 29 March 2019 Brussels time (UTC+1)

Facts dear boy, FACTS! and more facts below


And it must be remembered that MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Prime Minister Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way.
They backed the government's European Union Bill(ie Article 50), supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.
But the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 09:53 AM

Martial law here we come, it would appear
It is to be noted that the opinions of the people wouldn't be worth a tuppeny fuck if it didn't coincide with those of the Brexiteers, as has been demonstrated admirably here - the hardships of working people now being admitted and planned for by the government make that quite plain
When the people attempted to protect their jobs or demand a living wage they became 'the enemy within"
If they elected a government which attempted to better peoples' conditions, I have little doubt that the State would follow the example of Thatcher's friend Pinochet, and turn out the troops - 'The Iron Lady confirmed this herself when she described this mass murderer "a true democrat"
Johnson is already girding the musicles of the forces of law and order to keep the people whose opinions are so important when it comes to Brexit in their place
It's a crying shame that the more intelligent of the Brexiteers on this forum have refused to take a proper part in this debate and we are left with what we are left with
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 10:01 AM

INTERESTING HINDSIGHT IN VIEW OF TODAY'S REVELATIONS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 11:09 AM

An interesting poll result from Yougov
(From the font of accurate tidings, The one and only Guido)

https://order-order.com/2019/08/17/yougov-brits-prefer-no-deal-brexit-pm-corbyn/

More people prefer no deal to Compo the cabbage patch king!
What a delight it must be, to be so popular!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 11:26 AM

I posted a little while ago suggesting that we ignore the troll and talk past him. This is the advice that all three moderators have been giving us, some public, some private, and they do use the word troll. My post was deleted. Not my gig, not moaning, just observing a bit of an oddity.