BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 May 19 - 09:12 PM

Do we run the trial again if we don't get the verdict we want....?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 May 19 - 11:34 PM

If you say that we give the EU £350 million a week without saying that we get much of that straight back, and you know it, in order to make your case that we give the EU a lot of money, you are being deliberately misleading and you are lying by omission. I honestly can't see why that isn't crystal clear.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 May 19 - 01:59 AM

The Brexshiteers don’t want to see it, Steve - confirmation bias - so they continue, not only to ‘justify’ the Leave lies, but also to continue to push them.

Fortunately, some of us have very long memories and working brains, capable of original thought and resisting bullshit and bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 19 - 02:08 AM

I am not attributing honesty to either side, Al. Both sides lied on some occasions and told the truth on some occasions. That is no reason to overlook an influencial lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 19 - 02:51 AM

I see the CBI have now thrown their cap in the ring.

Business lobby group CBI warns Tories over no-deal Brexit

Any good news yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 31 May 19 - 03:26 AM

Simply spiffing news!

Yougov poll with a choice of

Con
Lab
Lib
Other.

LibDem poll 24%
Brexit poll 22%
Tory poll 18%
Labour poll 18%
UKIP poll 2%
CHUK poll 2%

Deliberately play down Brexit by classing them as other yet they come number 2.

The pundits claimed brexit would fade after the EU elections. I think not!

and for some icing on the cake:
Tory second referendum campaigner Phillip Lee is facing the music at a Special General Meeting of Bracknell Conservative Association this Saturday morning, they will vote on a no confidence motion in him.

He may be as slippery as cat sh*t on linoleum, but I doubt he will slither out of this little contretemps

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 19 - 03:51 AM

It's a shame Rory Stewart is behind the baboon and the viper in the leadership race.


An honest Tory?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 31 May 19 - 04:01 AM

Brexit party goes for the jugular in the upcoming bye election for the seat of disgraced Ex-Labour MP Fiona Onasanya.

Distinct lack of joined up thinking by Labour. Why bring up law and order as the party wicket when their own representative's contempt for same created the need for the election?            DUUUUUUUUUUUH!!!!!!



brexit 10 Labour nil

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 19 - 04:02 AM

That 22% of the population is prepared to vote for a party which gives no information on what it would try to do in power apart from leaving the EU, which some of their party say might take 30 years to recover from ( Lucy Harris, Brexit party) is hardly 'spiffing'.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 19 - 04:15 AM

what if Boris is found innocent and five million people sign a petition saying he's guilty....

another crushing victory for the remainers...?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 19 - 04:28 AM

I would not be in the least surprised if the Brexit Party candidate won in Peterborough. But nor would I be surprised if the LibDems won. I would be surprised if anyone else did.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 19 - 04:36 AM

Having just checked The Electoral Calculus prediction for Peterborough, they put Labour with the highest chance, then Tory, with LibDem and Brexit party in the doldrums. I think that is wrong - Farage will certainly be doing his damnedest to get the Brexit party as high as possible, and the more he succeeds in that, the stronger the anti-Brexit response will be, which will primarily help the LibDems. And neither Labour nor Conservatives are being too convincing at the moment.

We will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 31 May 19 - 04:42 AM

Big Al
Mathermagic is the secret weapon of remainers. With all these threatened shortages in a post brexit world I cannot see why they worry. Ample precedent has been set with loaves and fishes!

As an aside George Galloway has announced he will seek advice to launch legal action against Alastair Campbell over his alleged "misconduct in public office" during the run-up to the Iraq War.

Who will take aim at the Bliar I wonder?
Are the floodgates about to open?

These remainer wrecking tactics have a potential to backfire in a spectacular fashion.

I must study the futures market in popcorn!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 19 - 05:02 AM

That link is scary, DMcG. When even the brexit part are saying leaving will hurt the UK economy for 30 years we begin to see why no one on here has come up with any good news yet.

Still, I suppose when we get are cuntry back we will have unlimited wealth, good weather all year round and unicorns in every garden. It will all be worthwhile. Shame no one on here will be about to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 31 May 19 - 05:35 AM

Betting odds sky news for Peterborough


Brexit Party 2/9
Labour         7/2
Liberal Democrats 22/1
Conservatives         25/1
Greens         100/1
UKIP         100/1

Realistically a 2 horse race if the odds are correct. We shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 19 - 07:03 AM

well if you're correct and thehe brexit party have said nothing of their intentions...what a story it tells of disillusion with the two main parties.

cue for Corbyn fans to blame the wicked media....

This is it though, we ordinary people are so stupid, Keep on telling us that. It will really get us on your side.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 19 - 07:07 AM

well if you're correct and the brexit party have said nothing of their intentions ...

I am quite happy if you correct me, Al. Can you detail some of their stated intentions apart from leaving the EU?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 31 May 19 - 07:18 AM

The Brexit party have concentrated on Brexit. They are focused, unlike Labour with their ridiculous campaign poster in Peterborough emphasizing law and order in a campaign caused by the dismissal of a criminal labour Mp. (To steal a phrase: You could not make it up!)
When the two "has-been" parties are forced into an election, then is the time for a slick party manifesto. Unlike the career politician amateurs in the other parties Brexit will have candidates with real world experience, honed in the cut and thrust of business, bringing a level of professionalism their opponents can only drool over.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 19 - 07:22 AM

That might come across as more aggressive than I intended. Let's try again. I presume you are at least willing to accept no deal. Certainly many Brexit supporters are. But there are even varieties of no-deal. For example, a large number of fridges, we are told, have been bought to stockpile medicines to prevent a shortage in the event of no-deal. Grayling, for all his incompetence, appears to have tried to arrange alternative transportation for goods in the event of no deal.

So you can have a no deal, while simultaneously trying to identify risks in it and then taking steps to minimise those risks.

At the other extreme, is no-deal with no attempt to mitigate any effects at all. And in between are thousands of variations depending on what you see as risks and how great you assess them to be.

While my personal opinion is of course that remain would be better, I do not regard anyone who wants no deal and is prepared to assess the risks and then act to mitigate them as stupid. And fully own the consequences of Brexit, good or bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 19 - 07:38 AM

That link is scary, DMcG. When even the brexit part are saying leaving will hurt the UK economy for 30 years we begin to see why no one on here has come up with any good news yet.
Assuming you mean the Lucy Harris link.
To paraphrase she says Brexit at any cost, and answering points being made by several persons:
Campbell then asked Harris to try and elaborate on her comment and it wouldn't exactly fill your heart with hope and prosperity, even if you were the most staunch of Brexiteers.
Well...I don't...I mean...are you looking for a number...or?
I think short term there will be an effect on the economy. Short-term yes.
Campbell:
How long is short term?
Harris?
How long is short term? I don't know. The next 30 years?
I think short term there will be some effects on it.
A flabbergasted Campbell seemed shocked that she would predict such an extensive length of time, who quickly figured out that things wouldn't start to get better until three years before his 90th birthday.
Harris replied again:
The price of democracy and the price of sovereignty is high. People have died for this.
The economics of this sometimes isn't as important as the principle of it.

Assuming she was giving her honest answers to the points being put, there is a distinct lack of any comment that there would be 30 years of negative effects. Clearly we have taken over 40 years becoming entangled with EU. Getting clear of that influence will also take time.

The transcript certainly reads as if the presenter is not being impartial, but siding with the two pro-EU activists Femi Oluwole and Madeleina Kay against the single pro-Brexit spokesman.


The Independent does make one comment (before the transcript starts) which appears even handed:
During an appearance on BBC Radio 5 Live, Lucy Harris a member of the Brexit Party who is running in the European Elections in Yorkshire and Humber claimed that we might not see any benefits for another 30 years.

That is quite different from predicting 30 years of doom & gloom, but clearly a paragraph (encapsulating what the quotes actually say) which will be ignored by Remainers.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 19 - 08:14 AM

i dunno if its just my cheap computer but i keep flying past the message i want to see. its so long this thread that my computer can't cope with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 19 - 08:20 AM

You have the right initials, Nigel. What else do you think NP could stand for? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 19 - 08:27 AM

Really? "The price of democracy and the price of sovereignty is high. People have died for this.
The economics of this sometimes isn't as important as the principle of it" is not suggesting we will pay a price?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 31 May 19 - 08:41 AM

Democracy is voting, sovereignty depends upon who is talking. I don't have any less sovereignty if I am answering to someone in Brussels, than if it is someone in London.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 May 19 - 10:09 AM

”i dunno if its just my cheap computer but i keep flying past the message i want to see. its so long this thread that my computer can't cope with it.”

Al, if you click on the number showing the total number of posts instead of clicking on the thread title, the thread will open in ‘pages’. If you then click on the highest bracketed Page no. at the top, it will take you to the most recent posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 19 - 12:22 PM

Thankyou for help. BWM. If I find that number of the total number of posts I will let you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 19 - 12:23 PM

A- ha! Many thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 May 19 - 12:28 PM

No problemo, senor!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 19 - 09:47 PM

I don't think you can have it both ways.

Let us say you are right - a no deal Brexit will raise many problems. Driving over a cliff. Walking into lamp post. Poor Elton John is consumed with shame with his fellow Englishmen.

The land prey tp pestilence and famine.

Well if that is the case, you can't really make plans and policies, if things are going to be as bad as that.

So why do it?

Well I suppose, yes its that important. I think we're at a table where the game is rigged, and we need to walk away.

Donald Trump has been criticised for his measures towards Mexico, but I think he has a point. If you want to to sell your goods to a country - you should not be pursuing policies which will affect the prosperity of that country. You can't treat a trading partner like a milk cow.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 01:55 AM

I have no idea what you are on about, Al.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 02:22 AM

I am not suggesting plagues of frogs, all major businesses pulling out of the UK, and so on and so forth. In fact I do think many of the claims made by the remain camp are daft because they only look at the impact of a risk and not an estimated probability of it occurring: you need to consider both.

I am instead asking those who propose no-deal to make it as beneficial as possible. That means thinking about what could go wrong (e.g. shortage of medicine) and either taking action to mitigate it (buying fridges) or honestly accepting this is a risk we are knowingly taken.

Businesses do this all the time. So much so there is an international standard (ISO 31000), used in the US as well as the UK and he rest of the EU, which describes best practice for this. It is not some wild and weird thing we are trying to impose on no-deals out of hatred for the idea. It is normal, everyday common practice for managing change. If you went to a bank for a business loan to cover a major change, they would ask to see your business plan, part of that would normally include a risk register.


I assume you buy some forms of insurance - car, perhaps, or house. The price of those is set through this sot of mechanism. They estimate as best they can the possible risks (theft, etc), look at things that mitigate them (lockable garage? burglar alarm?) and set the price accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 02:42 AM

I think we're at a table where the game is rigged, and we need to walk away.

It is of no important, but this raised a silly image in my mind, which might raise a laugh. Most cruise ships have casinos, which are of course designed so the house profits overall. They are, if you like, rigged games. So get up and walk away by all means, but be very careful you don't walk too far - the casino and ship provides a much warmer and safer environment than the ocean.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 03:48 AM

Of course the game is rigged. and there are massive attempts to manipulate the electorate with very selective reporting and data massaging.

Who in their right mind wants to hear Elton John's opinion. On the political scene he is a total irrelevance just like Bono?

When TBP have won more seats than any other party in the EU elections,
why are they placed among the also-rans in a yougov survey and not even named?

Why is the selection of guests on question time so obviously partisan?

Why did the electoral Commissioners announce an enquiry into Brexit party funding immediately before the election?

Why bring proceedings against Boris during a leader selection campaign?

Why is May's deal not labelled a treaty, and the details clarifying our future as serfs not publicized?

The examples are too numerous to list and the overpowering theme is the denigration of brexit. Exactly the same as the way the American President is treated.

If you cannot understand and agree with the contention that the game is rigged, I can only conclude that for an unhealthy number, the brainwashing has been a success.

However it must be remembered that in the EU elections Brexit overwhelmingly won! DESPITE BREXIT

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 05:27 AM

i'm quite interested in elton john's opinion - what is it?

why is the milkshake-stained man frog on question time so often? you do have a point there, iain = it would be good to have more alternative/socialist/environmental/workers/immigrant voices on the media.

in the european election - given the chance to vote for brexit why did their vote drop from 17 million to 5ish million? i thought folk were supposed to be quite keen on that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 05:48 AM

Insulting people merely demonstrates that the argument has been ceded.
Funny that only remainiacs stoop to it!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 05:56 AM

”Insulting people merely demonstrates that the argument has been ceded.
Funny that only remainiacs stoop to it!”

Sez the bloke who regularly resorts to insults like ‘Steptoe Sr’, or ‘Abbopotamus’.

Glasshouses, stones squaddie.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 07:19 AM

You know better, John. Everyone has seen what he is like. No need to keep pointing it out or even acknowledge his existence. Make the mods task easier.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 07:54 AM

Now to get back to brexit. A headline from the "Independent"

"The Conservative leadership contest is dominated by white men who've furthered inequality in various departments. The winner will be chosen by a membership who are 71 per cent male, 97 per cent white and 44 per cent aged over 65"

"The choice of Tory party leader will be unrepresentative and undemocratic. And yet this prime minister could be the one to lead us back into or out of Europe."

and yes it has been confirmed, the Pope is a Catholic.

This is the sort of whining expected from the gruniard.

Strangely enough those that decide these things are our elected representatives. If I could be bothered I could dig out leftie postings saying our elected elders and betters know best and should be left to get on with the job.

Yes is no
black is white
left is right

welcome to the Orwellian lunatic world of the remainiacs.

and a Toon to aid understanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 10:44 AM

in our award winning Farmers' Market - Godsell (local cheesemeisters) were selling one particular cheese Called "Brexit, 3 years old, divides opinion"

I posted it on Fakebook with the (true) comment "Hard Cheese"
& ............
"difficult to swallow, and don't come cheap"

Ya gotta larf, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 02:47 PM

I don't think remainiac is any more elevated than talking of brexshitters.

Or really any more likely to produce sensible debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 11:03 PM

Yes sometimes political debate on this site makes me feel like Private Godfrey....I don't like that sort of thing...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 02:41 AM

I agree with that, Al. Throwing insults around doesn't help anyone or inform anyone. I don't subscribe to the idea we are about winning an argument here - no one is likely to change anyone else's mind. So the best we can gain out of it is an understanding of the other's point of view, with the objective of understanding it, not demolishing it.

So, for example, Iains said at one point 'it has moved beyond Brexit now' and there is, I suspect, a lot of truth in that. Imagine for a moment that the new Tory leader was the hardest of hard Brexiteers, and somehow took Britain out of the EU as near immediately as possible. Does anyone believe Farage would then emulate Holmes and retire to the Sussex Downs to quietly keep bees? I don't, for one. He would probably say something along the lines of the traditional parties being forced into it by his party, it shows the power he wealds and only he can be the True Saviour of Democracy. And it is for this reason I ask about what Brexit supporters think his plans are if he gets no-deal implemented. Because we can be pretty sure he has ideas for after that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:21 AM

I guess it is a rhetorical question DMcG. We all know what comes after. Farage and others like him are just it it for money and power. Without EU intervention they will be free to asset strip the UK and turn it into a tax haven in which to keep their ill gotten gains. We can only hope some semblance of reason returns to the electorate before that happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:25 AM

Farage can use one argument that trumps all others: Respect the referendum result. This is a killer argument for both Tory and Labour parties because their respective MPs in many areas are betraying the vote for article 50 and the last election manifesto for both parties.
This raises questions about the duty of an MP towards his electorate in a way that has never before brought into such stark contrast between a referendum promise, a manifesto promise and arrogant dismissal of the electorate.
The no confidence vote in Phillip Lee in Guido has generated nearly a thousand comments. An interesting read on the span of electoral feeling.
    I recommend it is read. It can explain why Farage has such a level of support for his party and it is increasing. The more labour and tory behave like rabid rats in a sack the greater their destruction.
The establishment is scared stiff of Farage and the Brexit party because on his simple message he is unassailable. It is not purely about Brexit, it is about respecting democracy. That argument has gained support from both sides of the spectrum and the longer the political bunfight among the two parties continues the more support he gains.
Ideally, the long term the establishment of the Brexit Party as a dominant force could lead to a written constitution and root and branch reform of both houses. Such actions are unthinkable under the present regime. It would be nice to think the couple of deselection procedures presently underway turn into a flood. There is no shortage of candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:28 AM

It was not really a rhetorical question, Dave. I think most remainers do think what you said is more or less right.

But Brexiteers proclaim their love for their country, and I am sure the vast majority do so honestly. SO presumably they do not wish asset stripping to be the next stage after Brexit. So what they do think the Brexit Party will do should Brexit be completed is an interesting question. I hope they can answer with more than vague generalities.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:43 AM

We cross-posted, Iains. My comment about vague generalities was not directed at your post.

When I was a member of Charter '88 one of the demands was for a written constitution. Mrs Thatcher wrote a response that said many of the most despotic countries had a written constitution. On that, at least, she was quite right: such a constitution is not a solution, it is at best a tool, and it is a tool that only works within the rule of law. Claims the judges are enemies of the people does not fit well with calls for a legal framework like a constitution.

And of course it is unfortunately nearly unavoidable to consider the rise and fall of the Weimar Republic when thinking about this. Introduction of a new constitution, reform of the houses and then takeover by a demagogue is not really I model I would want to follow. Again, I believe most Brexiteers would not want that either. SO what do they think can be done to prevent it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 05:08 AM

That's not the killer argument Iains (is that really a name with an 'S' on the end?).

If you'd done a referendum on tn the days after the Warrington bombing, Warren Point, Enniskillen, or The Birmingham and pub bombing - they would have reintroduced capital punishment. That would have attracted millions of US dollars to the IRA - the Yank politicians were already lining up for photo opportunities with McGuinness and Adams.

The killer argument is that the EU has passed hundred of regulations that have impacted on fishing, car making, agriculture, textiles, and tax regulstions about music royalties which affect the economy of England - regulations which they don't observe - but we being a law abiding nation, do.

People who live in affluent parts of the country or who follow professions unaffected don't see it, or give a fig or a fart about their less fortunate citizens, whom they characterise as Brexshitter oafs. Don't sink to their level.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 05:45 AM

Al, the reality is that people do not want to be bossed by faceless
bureaucrats based in Brussels and Strasbourg, neither do they want to pay annual reparations of Danegeld. They want some semblance of control over their own lives and see the EU encroaching on every aspect of living like a demented Orwellian nightmare from 1984. They want their sovereignty back.
When the Bilderberg conference of 2019 will have the following topics(among others) it is time to be worried. Arch globalists are not your friends.
The key topics for discussion this year are:

1. A Stable Strategic Order
2. What Next for Europe?

6. The Future of Capitalism
7. Brexit (how to frustrate it more likely)

Trickle down is a myth to fool the little people. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
(the name is Iain by the way. It had already been used hence the s on the end)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 06:49 AM

Well I don't see how Brexit can happen, when our elected representatives are all dead set against it.

I tend to think parliamentary power trumps these crummy referendums and any euro nonsense.

Shouldn't get too excited Iains - its never going to happen.

But basically I agree. Sling out the the monarchy, and the aristocracy, and the Russian gangsters, de glamourise recreational drugs put them on the NHS (thus getting rid of many criminals) - spend the money on building hi tech infrastructure and factories.

The red revolution! Then think Boris and Farage. In europe or out, a right couple of wankers!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 07:39 AM

The killer argument is that the EU has passed hundred of regulations

That has proven to be nonsense over and over again, Al. The UK has been an important part of the EU for nearly 50 years. We have played a major role in getting these "hundred of rehulations" (sic) passed. If there was anything we were dead set against, we could veto it. If we leave the EU and want to sell to the remaining member states we will still have to comply to their regulations. The difference being we will no longer have a say in What they are. You have fallen prey to the media anti-EU campaign that has gone on since we joined. Do yourself a favour and look up whether any of the Sun or Mail scare stories about bent bananas, banning playtime or any other such nonsense are actually true. Find me one bit of poor legislation the we have not had a passing over the last 50 years.