BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:52 AM

While the rats are busy fighting in the sack the polls will be all over the place. I will wait until around the 5th Dec and see how the polls are behaving then. Magic grandad is 12 points behind at present, and who knows what damage the brexit party will cause in the labour heartlands?
We need all the opening phase infighting to settle down and re evaluate what the polls may be indicating.It is interesting the way the polling changed as soonas the brexit party released their mission statement.
If the brexit party and torys refuse to deal the dynamics change! Can the torys take that risk? Is the treaty Boris is trying to ram through worse than remaining?
This will be an election on brexit, no matter what attempts are made to broaden the discussion,

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:44 PM

And a very interesting opinion here from Prof. Sir John Curtice, the UK’s leading election expert, on the possible outcome of the election, and the very different effect the result may have on the two main parties...and hence on the likelihood of Brexit happening or, hopefully, not.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/shelagh-fogarty/professor-john-curtice-makes-surprising-prediction/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 01:44 PM

'No 10 blocks Russia EU referendum report until after election'

That is the title of an article in the Guardian today.

I wonder what it contains that Johnson, who has had the report since at least the 17th October, wishes to keep from the UK electorate.

Could someone please link to the article.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 02:00 PM

Block on release of investigation into Russian interference in EU referendum

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 02:03 PM

Thanks DMcG

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 05:05 PM

That report needs to be leaked. Openness is crucial to democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 05:17 PM

Just now, on the BBC news, it was stated that the BBC understands that the report has received security clearance and that there is no administrative reason why the report can't be published.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 05:58 PM

I note that Johnson has said that there is no way he would ask for an extension to the transition period at the end of 2020. As there is no chance of a deal with the EU being finalised by that date, he is in effect promising us a no-deal brexit. Be advised.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 09:34 AM

That last point reinforced by Gove this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 01:15 PM

I don't know if anyone else here heard it, but if so what to you think of Andrew Bridgen's attempts to excuse Jacob Rees-Mogg's blunder? To me, Andrew's remarks were very nearly as bad in casting the majority of the population as in need of patricians to tell them what to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 01:43 PM

Sky News picks up Andrew Bridgen's 'defence'

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 02:43 PM

It's all very well to portray it as guidance from patricians, but the thought process at the time would have been:
"I'm in a burning building, should I follow my instincts, and get out, or follow the advice of the fire brigade and stay put?"
While the fire brigade were giving what they believed (at the time) to be the best advice, it has since transpired that "I'm in a burning building, I need to get out" would have been the best response for most of the victims.
JRM may not have phrased that well, and it may be that there is no way to phrase it without risking offending someone. But, generally speaking, his comments were truthful.

And what has this to do with Brexit anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 02:58 PM

I agree it would have been better if I had put it in the election thread. Point taken there.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 03:38 PM

Once again there is no response from the Brexiteers to a potentially critical report being withheld from the scrutiny of not only parliament but from the public of the UK.

Democracy eh ....................

Just what does Johnson have to hide I wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 07:12 PM

i'm fairly sure it will be out in the next couple of weeks. again people will fall not because of the original crime but the cack-handed and stupid way of trying to cover stuff up

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 12:52 PM

Interesting that Bercow who liked to be "innovative" has perhaps had a parliamentary response. As yet, in a break with tradition, the ex speaker has not been awarded a peerage.
How very sad!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 07:29 PM

Break with tradition - on the day the Prime Minister visits the Queen to confirm the general election, a cabinet minister is forced to resign over his part in the interference of a rape trial leaving the Welsh Tories leaderless in an election to select a Government to guide Britain out of the unholy mess Brexit has caused so far (and Britain's not out yet)
The rape victim said not one of the minister's colleagues has contacted her over this FIFTEEN MONTH OLD INCIDENT
Bet she can't wait to get to the ballot box to put them in office again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM

'A very slow-cooked Bullshit-Casserole' - the Independent's view of the litany of lies that was Johnson's speech at the launch of the Tory election campaign.

Why would anyone expect anything but lies from a serial-liar? He wouldn't know truth if it bit him on his big, fat, Belgium-sized arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM

Meanwhile civil war within the Labour ranks. Hilarious!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:50 PM

Seems that interfering with a rape trial is ok with the Tories - to be expected with GROPEY BORIS in charge I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:58 PM

No, rape is not acceptable (to Conservatives). See my comments Here

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 02:07 PM

And you are usually so insistent on accuracy, Nigel! Jim did not comment on whether rape was acceptable to conservatives. He remarked that interfering in a rape trial seems to be. That's different, I think you will agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM

Boris is telling lies

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

The economy is in tatters

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

People are dying because of unnecessary austerity

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

Brexit is a complete and utter shambles

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

Ever feel like you are stuck in a loop?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM

The economy is in tatters

Best not talk about Germany then!
UK projected growth 1.3%(the same as France)
Germany 0.4%
Italy 0.1%
Oh look! Labour antisemitism!
In May, the Equality and Human Rights Commission announced an inquiry into whether Labour had "unlawfully discriminated against, harassed or victimised people because they are Jewish".
Oct 12, 2019 - Members of Labour's ruling executive have privately voiced fears that the Labour Party risks bankruptcy over the antisemitism investigation.
Oh Look! Why would they be saying that do you think?

Naughty naughty

even more naughty naughty

Tsk tsk

Everything is perfectly healthy and normal here in Denial Land.”
? Jim Butcher

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 04:06 AM

And now for something completely different.
Let the infighting commence! Enjoy!


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/11/unite-claims-labours-anna-turley-is-unfit-to-be-an-mp-court-hears

The pantomime season is in full swing!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 04:30 AM

Talking of ‘Pantomime Season’ - our erstwhile, would-be-again PM apparently off his tits and talking even more bollocks than usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 09:31 AM

Compo behind the curve as usual!
Corbyn has just called on the government to activate the Bellwin scheme to provide financial support to communities affected by flooding. The Bellwin formula makes funding available immediately to local authorities, such as those dealing with flooding in the Midlands and Yorkshire. An obviously good idea from Jeremy Corbyn. Which is probably why the Prime Minister activated it 3 days ago…
As one more polite commentator says:
"Scared chickens watching their increasingly shrinking poll numbers, frantically running around trying to politicise any disaster for their own political ends. Completely lacking in competence and morals."

Seems a fair summary to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM

More bad news for the Brexit-Bunch as the UK faces a cliff-edge on trade...

” By compulsively declaring that he will get Brexit done, the prime minister is desperately and dangerously diverting attention from the harm that Brexit will do.”

Ah well, at least we’ll have ‘Taken are cuntry back’, and....unicorns!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 07:13 AM

The telegraph:
Tories more popular among working class than rich, new general election poll shows
Evening Standard
UK opinion polls: Conservative Party to win more support from working class voters than upper class this election
Guido Fawkes
New polling from YouGov shows a twenty point lead for the Conservatives amongst C2DE (working-class) voters

The gruniard
'I've never known voters be so promiscuous': the pollsters .

Hilarious!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM

Finally, a parliament committed to getting Brexit done. All those standing for the Conservative Party have already pledged to vote for Boris' deal, and they hold the majority of the seats.

Onward and upward! (and 'outward')

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:02 AM

At least we will leave with a deal. Question is how long will it take?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:08 AM

"At least we will leave with a deal. Question is how long will it take?"

I wonder how that deal will go down in Northern Ireland where the DUP may feel they've been sold down the river.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:22 AM

I am not sure we will leave with a deal. on 1st July they have to ask more time to go beyond 2020. Given Johnson's campaign, plus a hard line element and arguably over confidence, I am fairly certain they will decide against and stick to the Dec 2020 date. Whether a deal of any kind or we leave with no deal at that point (as some ERG member claim they were promised) can be agreed in that time remains to be seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:48 AM

As Boris no longer needs the ERG's support I am not sure they will continue to wield any influence. We shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 07:37 AM

The one good thing to come from the election omnishambles is the neutralisation of the ERG, although I’m sure they will continue to try to get a Brexit crash-out. The problem is that, with a compulsive liar like Johnson, it’s impossible to know what his real intentions are - this particular ‘white man speak with forked tongue’.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 09:57 AM

At least we will leave with a deal. Question is how long will it take?
According to Boris, the end of 2020. But it is an assumption that "we will leave with a deal". Boris says that that is what he wants, and I believe him. But no-deal (WTO terms) remains on the table, at the least as a bargaining chip.
No-deal will only be needed if the EU prove unwilling to agree suitable terms, (within the timescale) but the possibility of no-deal might encourage them to be more reasonable.
People will remember the EU saying that when Boris took over there could be no re-negotiation of Mrs May's deal. Within 3 months there was a new deal on the table. Boris clearly knows more about negotiating than Mrs May did, and possible more than the EU team. He says we will leave by the end of 2020 (preferably with a deal) and I believe him.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:56 AM

We leave, deal or no deal.
Democracy rules OK!!!!!!!

Oh dear the lefties don't like getting thrashed do they?
The polls have been pointing out the obvious for a long time.
People do not like being lectured, hectored, pissed on, or being called stupid.

Labour learnt the obvious too late! Oh what a joyful day this is.
All the strutting by the lefties on this forum has been to no avail

As the guardian said not so many moons ago:

'I've never known voters be so promiscuous': the pollsters .

Hilarious!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:29 AM

No-deal will only be needed if the EU prove unwilling to agree suitable terms

You are aware that negotiations are a two way thing aren't you, Nigel? Surely that should read "if the EU and UK cannot agree suitable terms".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:59 AM

Yes, that is the way negotiations should work. But the EU seem to work on the basis of "tell us what you want, and we'll tell you why you can't have it". Which means that when the UK puts a proposal on the table the EU can choose whether to accept it, or to have the UK leave with no deal.
We (the UK) are leaving the EU by the end of January. After that we will not be negotiating as supplicants.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 01:57 PM

We (the UK) are leaving the EU by the end of January. After that we will not be negotiating as supplicants.

That is a matter of opinion, of course. You could as easily say we had more power and influence before we finally sign the withdrawal agreement, but will be supplicants to get a good deal afterwards. It is a matter of belief which party needs a trade deal more.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 03:34 PM

"getting Brexit done."

Quite frankly, if you are saying this you are brain-dead. Brexit will not be "done" within ten years, possibly longer. The racism of brexiteers (the main driver of their thinking) will come back to bite them big-time. And there is absolutely no guarantee of a trade deal by Johnson's promised deadline. In fact, if he hasn't gone crawling to the EU for an extension within six or seven months I'll eat my hat.

One more thing. The appalling stats for A&E waiting times, the worst ever, and a national disgrace caused solely by Tory misrule, should have been released yesterday. Some "watchdog" or other forced a delay until today because "things like that shouldn't be released on polling day." Well I bloody well think they absolutely should be. In a democracy we should have all legitimate information to hand before we vote. It wouldn't have made much difference because parties aren't allowed to make hay on polling day, but a very important principle of democracy was breached there.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 04:43 PM

The racism of brexiteers (the main driver of their thinking) will come back to bite them big-time.! Looks like reality bit you lefties and now the whining starts

What a stunning day this has been.

I have been waiting all day for shaw's contribution.

HA HA HA HA HA HA..........................................

Looks like all your lording it over brexiteers for the last three years has accomplished nowt, and even better you have been proved wrong(or full of shit).

By the way it is Labour undergoing an investigation by the Equality and Human rights Commission for endemic racism.
We brexiteers are pure as driven snow.
Calling us all racists merely demonstrates the accuracy of labeling you a leftard. As you have everything back to front and upside down I suggest you take your head out of your arse, wake up and smell the coffee. Then you can apologize to the majority of the population that used their heads to vote instead of ideology.
Labour is totally buggered for a generation at least! GOOD!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 08:24 PM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 01:57 PM

We (the UK) are leaving the EU by the end of January. After that we will not be negotiating as supplicants.

That is a matter of opinion, of course. You could as easily say we had more power and influence before we finally sign the withdrawal agreement, but will be supplicants to get a good deal afterwards.
No, I could not say that. I try to keep the tenses of my arguments consistent.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 03:07 AM

Now shaw has put the prosecco bottle away for the night and finished his rant, here is an article from the guardian all about "waycism"

Jeremy Corbyn of having “failed the test of leadership” over his handling of antisemitism complaints within the party.

Condemnation from within the ranks!
Rather hard to deny.
But with a weak leader due for the compost heap what else can be expected?

Meanwhile Boris's bright star is in the ascendancy. Happy,happy days!
Now we can look forward to the overhaul of the BBC
the fixed term parliament act
The supreme court(hopefully restoring the judicial functions of the Lord Chancellor)
Delivery of brexit(deal or no deal) But the EU will now have to act seriously - playtime is over, and no deal will hurt many in the EU, especially Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 04:38 AM

OK, so I changed the tense. I care more about the content.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 04:44 AM

"Now shaw has put the prosecco bottle away for the night and finished his rant..."

I posted my "rant" whilst stone-cold sober. If you have evidence to the contrary, let's be having it. Otherwise, just shut your ugly mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 04:55 AM

As I said to John earlier, Steve. You know the drill!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 04:57 AM

Oh Dear! a hangover perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 09:47 AM

"John McDonnell QUITS as civil war erupts over direction Party should take: Labour MPs and union baron Len McLuskey gun for 'anti-Western' Jeremy Corbyn as ousted 'Red Wall' MP says leader was 'poison on doorsteps'"

What happy little chappies - a joy to watch!

Meanwhile for the valiant Brexiteers:

Adeste fideles laeti triumphantes

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 10:13 AM

And....4400