BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 10:33 AM

"McDonnell said there needed to be a debate about how “[Corbyn] – who I think is one of the most principled, honest, sincere, committed, anti-racist politicians – [was] demonised by a smear campaign”.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 10:56 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 11:07 AM

I’ve also posted this on the GE thread. It’s the best piece I’ve seen since the election...

”So congratulations if you wanted Boris Johnson as pm.

Please don’t celebrate too much though as you have work to do. You see us remoaners have spent three and a half years now telling you brexit was wrong but we’ve finally and completely lost. There’s pretty much nothing we can do now to stop it.

So, it’s over to you leavers. You need to get yourselves into gear to make it work. We need to see some of these benefits you’ve been able to see yet unable to properly articulate since 2016.

I hope you don’t mind but I’ve taken the liberty of writing a to do list for you.

1. Get brexit done please. When we say done we mean as promised so we’ll be looking for trade deals with the EU, Japan, Australia and Canada etc. In fact there’s about 40 deals covering 70 countries that need to be done please. Also with the US that doesn’t involve the nhs or chlorine. We want what you promised us. That was that we’d be no worse off than when we were an EU member. You need to crack on as this was promised by the end of Jan. You have seven weeks.

2. The nhs. We want the cash that was promised please. £350 million per week is about 72000 nurses so please get recruiting. This is important.

3. Scotland. Ok so these guys were promised they would remain in the EU if they remained in the UK. They’re pretty pissed. In fact they’ve voted almost exclusively for the SNP so they might want to leave. Equally you said the UK wouldn’t split so you’ll need to both grant Scotland its independence and keep it as part of the United Kingdom. Good luck squaring this circle. NB. This is urgent.

4. Northern Ireland. Oooookay then. You’ve really buggered this one up. There’s a chance they could look to reunify with the republic now because they didn’t want to brexit. Regardless you’ve caused instability there where we and they can least afford it. NB. This is also urgent.

5. The economy. Johnson keeps talking about unleashing the potential of the country. We need to see this soon if possible. We don’t want to see the downturn that “project fear” predicted. We don’t want to be poorer. We don’t want to lose out.

6. You’ll also need to “bring the country back together”. This might be tricky as a lot of people seem to be really really angry with each other.

That’s as far as I’ve got. Should keep you busy. So go and get all british about things. Roll up your sleeves, pull your socks up, dig deep and deliver what you promised.

And remember if you fail to deliver any if this it’s on you, brexit and Tory voters. You wanted this so badly and now you have it. We honestly hope we’re wrong and that you can make a success of this but if you can’t then we will forever tell you that we told you so.”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 11:09 AM

While the signing of the Withdrawal Agreement looks certain (bar something like the ERG refusing because it is too soft for their tastes, for example), we need to remember that this does not address anything about a lot of important matters such as trade, which is actually a much tougher battle than the WAB. For example, how to resolve the different objectives of the EU and the US and sign new trade deals with both will still need sorting out. The decision to leave will be confirmed. The destination has not been.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 11:16 AM

The decision to leave will be confirmed.

Has been, I should have said. I know how upset Nigel gets about tenses!


(Yes, I know more people voted for a party which promised a second referendum. But that's how our crazy voting system works.)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 02:18 PM

As Backwoodsman has posted the same copy'n'paste' argument here as elsewhere, I'll copy my response as well:

Backwoodsman: Just to correct a couple of comments in your copy/paste:

One of the bast pieces I’ve read, in the aftermath of the GE....

”So congratulations if you wanted Boris Johnson as pm.

Please don’t celebrate too much though as you have work to do. You see us remoaners have spent three and a half years now telling you brexit was wrong but we’ve finally and completely lost. There’s pretty much nothing we can do now to stop it.

So, it’s over to you leavers. You need to get yourselves into gear to make it work. We need to see some of these benefits you’ve been able to see yet unable to properly articulate since 2016.

I hope you don’t mind but I’ve taken the liberty of writing a to do list for you.

1. Get brexit done please. When we say done we mean as promised so we’ll be looking for trade deals with the EU, Japan, Australia and Canada etc. In fact there’s about 40 deals covering 70 countries that need to be done please. Also with the US that doesn’t involve the nhs or chlorine. We want what you promised us. That was that we’d be no worse off than when we were an EU member. You need to crack on as this was promised by the end of Jan. You have seven weeks.
I expect to see us out of the EU by the end of January, in fact, this has been promised. There will still be negotiations needed to confirm our ongoing trading position with the EU

2. The nhs. We want the cash that was promised please. £350 million per week is about 72000 nurses so please get recruiting. This is important.
£350 million was not promised. This has been explained before. The comment on the bus listed what we pay to EU each week, and suggested we could spend it better, with more being paid to NHS. Nowhere did it claim that the whole amount would go to the NHS.
Oh, and £350,000,000 per week equating to 72,000 nurses? This means nurses are paid over £4,000 per week. Figures worthy of Diane Abbott

3. Scotland. Ok so these guys were promised they would remain in the EU if they remained in the UK. They’re pretty pissed. In fact they’ve voted almost exclusively for the SNP so they might want to leave. Equally you said the UK wouldn’t split so you’ll need to both grant Scotland its independence and keep it as part of the United Kingdom. Good luck squaring this circle. NB. This is urgent.
No. Scotland were not promised that they would remain in the EU if we went for Brexit. They were told that if they went for independence (at that time) they would no longer be part of the UK, and so would lose their membership of the EU. If they were no longer part of UK then they would no longer be part of EU. If they remained part of UK then they would remain part of EU as long as the rest of UK did. This may be difficult to understand, but please try.

4. Northern Ireland. Oooookay then. You’ve really buggered this one up. There’s a chance they could look to reunify with the republic now because they didn’t want to brexit. Regardless you’ve caused instability there where we and they can least afford it. NB. This is also urgent. There have always been calls in Ireland for re-unification. Whether Brexit makes those calls stronger is debatable.

5. The economy. Johnson keeps talking about unleashing the potential of the country. We need to see this soon if possible. We don’t want to see the downturn that “project fear” predicted. We don’t want to be poorer. We don’t want to lose out. The pound has already rallied, and the FOOTSIE 250 has also seen improvements. It seems the financial industries can see benefits which you cannot.

6. You’ll also need to “bring the country back together”. This might be tricky as a lot of people seem to be really really angry with each other. If Labour had won, and if they had proved to be a Remain party (rather than sitting on the fence) there would still have been a need to "bring the country back together". So this is a rather pointless point

That’s as far as I’ve got. Should keep you busy. So go and get all british about things. Roll up your sleeves, pull your socks up, dig deep and deliver what you promised.

And remember if you fail to deliver any if this it’s on you, brexit and Tory voters. You wanted this so badly and now you have it. We honestly hope we’re wrong and that you can make a success of this but if you can’t then we will forever tell you that we told you so.”

Next time, try and come up with your own arguments, rather than some unattributed copy'n'paste.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 08:11 AM

"McDonnell said there needed to be a debate about how “[Corbyn] – who I think is one of the most principled, honest, sincere, committed, anti-racist politicians – [was] demonised by a smear campaign”.

I trust you jest!
1)https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/corbyn-condemned-for-supporting-those-convicted-of-1994-terror-attacks-in-london-1.468429

2)https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/03/jeremy-corbyn-has-a-soft-spot-for-extremists-ira-hamas-hezbollah-britain-labour/


Plenty more of the same ilk. Corbyn is a thoroughly nasty piece of work. To coin a backward man phrase: it is only the f**kwits on the left posting here that would ever contemplate voting for the racist marxist fool. Still we do not have to worry about labour for many moons. They have crashed and burnt bigtime.

As Hurree Jamset Ram Singh of the remove would say:
"The joyfulness is terrific"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:12 AM

Margaret Thatcher was a big fan of the EU single market.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/thatcher-papers-for-1988-reveal-her-deep-enthusiasm-for-the-single-market

That would have made for some interesting conversations with the right.wing brexiteers on here!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:03 AM

A perfect summary: The daily Wail has the rights of it, not the shoutie leftards on this forum.
"Britain’s divide isn’t North v South or red v blue. It’s between the ugly intolerant Left and the rest of us
The real chasm which has arisen is between a Conservative party that committed itself to fulfilling the will of the people, and two Left-wing parties which had devoted the past three-and-a-half years to subverting it.

It is a divide between people who have real-world concerns and those focused on niche and barely significant ones. It is a divide between those who worry about the way they are governed, how the nation will fare and how high immigration should be and those who hector them as backwards or bigoted for even noticing such things.

How, you might ask, have we reached such a state? There is a clue in the Labour Party’s dysfunctional reaction to its catastrophic defeat on Thursday.

Even after the Conservatives won in a near-landslide, the Leftist automatons that run the party are choosing to learn nothing.

They are not using this time for self-reflection or to work out how they approach this new division. Instead, they’re stuck on repeat – at increasing volume."
and if further proof is needed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7793275/DOUGLAS-MURRAY-Britains-divide-ugly-intolerant-Left-rest-us.html

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:35 AM

aye, right. in my life - in the workington constituency- many of my friends are upset and worried about the future. at work some have been very vocally ukip and brexitty and i've learned to keep quiet to avoid arguments (it's tiring, i don't like anuse and it gets us nowhere) personally, i am not particularly bothered about brexit but am always anti-tory as i worry about public services (i work supporting disabled people in west cumbria) sorry, i'm getting distracted. anyway - some people are upset and worried, some will be pleased at a rejuvenated tory government. but as ever, a majority of people aren't particularly bothered and mistrust or dislike all politicians. calling any group 'intolerant, bigoted, ugly etc....' doesn't do anyone any good. surely we all come across people in all walks of life who may have different views but we would never label an individual in this way. of course it is a lot easier to see the world in black and white if our only relationship is with a computer screen. or the daily heil. (by the way - that 'leftard' word is ugly and offensive

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:59 AM

I fully agree, Pete, but reason does not work with some people. You can chose to ignore them or pay them back with the kind of abuse they use. I used to do the latter but it is wearying and, as you say, gets you nowhere. Ignoring them is far more satisfying and makes life a lot pleasanter.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 11:36 AM

(by the way - that 'leftard' word is ugly and offensive

Not near as offensive as being called a fuckwit or racist or mentally deficient. and by the way it is leftards protesting in the streets because they cannot accept a democratic vote. That is even more offensive.

Ignoring them is far more satisfying and makes life a lot pleasanter.

Very true. Now we have had an election and proved even to the most retarded that leave has won by an overwhelming majority.

Compo got such a drubbing his arse cheeks outshine Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.
Now you all can squeam and squeam to no avail. How very frustrating
for you. Luvvin it!



Boris Johnson has ordered his aides to launch an urgent review into decriminalising the BBC license fee in the wake of his election triumph.
The Telegraph

Sky paid the poison dwarf 60k for a program watched by 46000 people

This election is the gift that just keeps giving!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 11:45 AM

And of course the more they are ignored the more desperate their cries for attention get, Pete :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 12:40 PM

one of the things about my job is that disabled people are never abisive, never sarcastic, never cruel and will take people as they find them. they can teach us many things about how to deal with each other.

iain, please could you stop using terms like 'retarded and leftard'? i'm sure you have many other ways you can be abusive and spiteful without referring to people with different abilities to yourself.

sorry everyone, i can usually ignore this stuff but that really bugs me, is that why you do it iain? maybe it is useless to appeal to your better nature but i'll give it one more go

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 01:34 PM

Margaret Thatcher was a big fan of the EU single market.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/thatcher-papers-for-1988-reveal-her-deep-enthusiasm-for-the-single-market
That would have made for some interesting conversations with the right.wing brexiteers on here!

I started reading it. While the headline seems to support your contention, the opening paragraphs make it clear that Margaret Thatcher was a fan of the EU as it then was, not the EU it would become:

Her speechwriting files for Bruges, including drafts and contributions from outsiders, are among more than 40,000 pages of Lady Thatcher’s papers for the year 1988 being opened to the public at Churchill College from Monday.
They show that rather than acting as a call-to-arms for Eurosceptics and attacking the principles behind the single market – of which Thatcher was something of a devotee – her speech was more concerned with the perceived power grab by European Commission chief Jacques Delors, and a possible move to a more ‘federal’ European ‘super-state’.
Historian Chris Collins of the Margaret Thatcher Foundation, the only person to date to have read all 40,000 pages of material being released, said: “She wanted her speech to be about direction, rather than point scoring – and she edges back from attacking the Commission, approaching it in a more intellectual style.
“I know she was uncomfortable about the venue, but we are very lucky in that few of her speeches remain in such a complete form as this.
“When you read her papers for 1988, you see her sheer level of enthusiasm for the single market. She goes up hill and down dale with deep enthusiasm because this is practical Europe, this is how it works together. The role of speechwriter Hugh Thomas – a committed Europhile – is also crucial to consider when looking at this speech from a historical perspective.”
The section in bold illustrates exactly my point.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 05:45 PM

The section you highlighted, Nigel, contains the phrase "the perceived power grab". I'm sure you will note the word "perceived". Not a real power grab. Nothing actually happening. Just perceived. Exactly the same as it is now. You will also note that I said she was a devotee of the single market. Which is exactly what the article said. So just what is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 06:04 PM

"iain, please could you stop using terms like 'retarded and leftard'? i'm sure you have many other ways you can be abusive and spiteful without referring to people with different abilities to yourself.

sorry everyone, i can usually ignore this stuff but that really bugs me, is that why you do it iain? maybe it is useless to appeal to your better nature but i'll give it one more go..."

I wouldn't bother, Pete. He uses the term retarded and similar but he's not referring to people different to himself. He is actually referring to himself. Recognise that here we have a man (well, he uses a man's name but who knows?) who is a right-wing plant (notice that he never denies this, because he can't) and who is clearly mentally ill. The mods can't deal with him because he posts from more than one IP address. Just don't bother with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 06:27 PM

Dave, you went on to say: That would have made for some interesting conversations with the right.wing brexiteers on here!

I think most of the Brexiteers on here have been quite clear that the Single Market, in and of itself, was not necessarily a bad thing. The problem we saw (and continued to foresee) was the steady mission creep toward the centralised control of the whole European area.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 08:43 PM

Rubbish. There is no mission creep in that direction without our say-so. We have considerable powers of veto as of now, but of course we will lose them and as such we risk the EU doing what your fearmongering suggests. I'll ask you in two or three years' time whether that makes you feel happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:33 AM

The mods can't deal with him because he posts from more than one IP address. Just don't bother with him.

Well the only way mr shaw would know this is because a moderator is talking out of school.

I connect to the internet exclusively via a cellular network.
When you use your carrier’s network, you’re using your carrier’s IP addresses, and they’re changing all of the time. Your private address connects you to the nearest cell tower. Your public address is one of many that connects your carrier’s network to the Internet.

Mr shaw full of shit and displaying his ignorance as usual.

However it does raise some interesting questions about privacy.
I guess data protection in the States is far more relaxed than in the UK, not that this particular issue concerns me.

Whether a moderator should be releasing this information is a matter for the Mods and Max to resolve.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:45 AM

I think most of the Brexiteers on here have been quite clear that the Single Market, in and of itself, was not necessarily a bad thing. The problem we saw (and continued to foresee) was the steady mission creep toward the centralised control of the whole European area.

That is certainly my view. As a trading block the EU makes some kind o fsense, but the shambles that is the CAP exposes fundamental flaws, as is an inability to react in a timely fashion. And auditing is not a part of the EU lexicon.

I think it has gone far beyond mission creep. Majority voting is progressing nicely and is the stated aim for all aspects of legislation.
It is the stated aim to have a common foreign policy.
Armed forces peacekeeping missions are already EU badged.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:23 AM

A steady mission creep, Nigel? It was a perceived power grab in 1988. It is still a perceived power grab in 2019. Nothing has changed in over 30 years. There is no mission creep, steady or otherwise. If you think the single market is a good thing, why on earth did you vote to leave it? While in the EU we have power to change the things you don't like. Outside, we have no chance of changing anything. Do you want me to post the list of lies reported in the press about EU rules and regulations again?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:41 AM

Just as importantly, we are losing to power to prevent changes.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 11:04 AM

Mission Creep or landslide? Those ruled by ideology are unable to see the obvious. Luckily the recent election has cast the doubting Thomas's into the wilderness, preferably far enough away where we no longer have to hear their shoutie, strident,screeching voices

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/qualified-majority-voting-system-to-be-extended-under-treaty-provisions-1.1096639

https://www.eesc.europa.eu/en/our-work/opinions-information-reports/opinions/taxation-qualified-majority-voting


https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/qualified-majority/


http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2019/635533/EPRS_BRI(2019)635533_EN.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:21 PM

I can't help thinking, Steve, that if some of the things that are being listed and we were blocking via our veto come to pass, the response will be "See? We got out just in time!"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:01 PM

Oh God, yes. However, I've never seen the EU as an evil empire that's rubbing its hands with glee at the very prospect of the UK leaving, just waiting to pile on deleterious changes. It's still a democratic bulwark of (sadly) 27 nations against the increasing loss of democracy in the wider world. What a shame that we can't use our constructive influence in that regard any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 10:26 AM

Good too see the glitterai twitterers and the lefties posting here still do not get it. Luvvie lefty hugh grant campaigned in 5 constituencies.
Guess wot? They lefties lost each one. Calling people racist, stupid and deplorables gave Boris the premiership and Trump the Presidency.


Keep going as you are boyos your actions ensure Labour is finished not for just 5 years but forever.
The gnome, backward man, Shaw and a few also-rans think they know it all. Harsh reality has proved otherwise.

Your antics are a joy to behold

https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=137181

Watch, assimilate, digest! perhaps you might learn something

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 10:26 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:01 PM
Oh God, yes. However, I've never seen the EU as an evil empire that's rubbing its hands with glee at the very prospect of the UK leaving, just waiting to pile on deleterious changes.

I've never seen that either. I see them wringing their hands that Britain is leaving, and doing all in their power to prevent it.

Fortunately the UK will leave the EU by 31 Jan, and will have concluded trade deals (with the EU) by the end of 2020, and this end date will have been written into law.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:04 AM

"and will have concluded trade deals (with the EU) by the end of 2020"

Are you sure of that? I hope you're right.

I wish I could share your faith in our National Liar-in-Chief's intentions. I suspect the largely non-dom bunch of billionaire tax-dodgers who control him might have a rather different view...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:26 AM


"and will have concluded trade deals (with the EU) by the end of 2020"

Are you sure of that? I hope you're right.

There is lot of talk of a minimal deal on the EU side. It is possible that a deal of some kind is done by the end of 2020 that is just a phase of a much longer set of talks. That would enable both sides to claim they had met their goal, which is often how these things work.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:27 AM

Yes, I admit that, at the moment, it only says 'attempt', but here is today's news, taken from The Guardian

Boris Johnson will attempt to mark his election promise to “get Brexit done” by writing into law that the UK will leave the EU in 2020 and will not extend the transition period.
As MPs begin to be sworn in at Westminster on Tuesday, the prime minister’s team is working on amending the withdrawal agreement bill so that the transition, also known as the implementation period, must end on 31 December 2020 and there will be no request to the EU for a further extension.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:42 AM

Yes, I admit that, at the moment, it only says ‘attempt’...”

But that’s not the same thing as ‘will have concluded trade deals (with the EU) by the end of 2020’, is it?

I’m very concerned that what The National Liar-in-Chief is trying to do is to give himself a legalised excuse to crash-out without a trade-deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:53 AM

WTO jurisdiction blocked

If we end up without a deal, we are often told we will trade on WTO rules. But currently the WTO court that resolves disputes is blocked. I have not seen any explanation how setting up new WTO trading is expected to work without the court. Trading that is already established is risky enough, but since they will have been running for some time most potential disputes are likely to resolved. But setting up a new one is trickier.

Trump seems perfectly happy to leave the court dysfunctional, so if he is re-elected we cannot assume it will be running over the initial year or two when we need to set up many of the agreements.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:57 AM

Germany's Central Bank said in a report Monday that Europe's biggest economy will likely stagnate in the fourth quarter of 2019 as the country faced a decline in factory orders and industrial production in October.

"German economic output could stagnate in the final quarter of 2019," the Bundesbank wrote in its monthly report.

The ongoing U.S.-China trade war has hurt German industry, with the German economy heavily relying on exports to China. German automobile manufacturers have had trouble selling their vehicles in the Chinese market amid trade tensions.

Germany is also worried about the prospect of the U.K. leaving the European Union without a deal, known as a hard Brexit. A report in February suggested that 100,000 German jobs are at risk due to a hard Brexit.

That news will likely change the EU stance on brexit negotiations,especially as the recent election thinned out the treacherous remainiacs from the Tory party.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 12:03 PM

So, now it is happening. Now we know when. Now we know we will be out of the EU by the end of January, when can we expect to see all these financial benefits? When will food become cheaper? When will all the savings destined for the NHS start to take effect? When will all the jobs currently performed by immigrants be taken over by our unemployed youth?

We need to know these things. These are what leaving the EU has been sold on. I guess they have to be realised before the next election or Bozzer may have problems explaining why they have not yet happened. Either way, I'm looking forward to it. If we do reap the benefits, fantastic. I shall fully admit I was wrong and enjoy my new found wealth. If we don't, I will enjoy seeing the GAP try to wriggle out of it. Win-win :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 12:44 PM

Win-win :-)

My crystal ball sez that the greens will be a more significant entity than labour come the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 02:25 PM

The mods can't deal with him because he posts from more than one IP address.

Not so, Steve. All they need to do is delete his membership as they've done to countless others (deserving and not so) and Hey Presto!- no more Iains.

Its a problem of will, not of mechanics.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 06:03 PM

You could be right, Bill, but though I occasionally argue with the mods I always accept that this isn't my gig, so I tend not to dwell. Interesting that we've found his soft underbelly, though. Gosh, don't he kick up when we ever mention his roving IP addresses... :-). Summat to hide, I reckon!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 03:50 AM

Gosh, don't he kick up when we ever mention his roving IP addresses... :-). Summat to hide, I reckon!

Glad to see you confirming your idiocy, have another bottle of prosecco.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 04:07 AM

I think this business of a roving IP address is a distraction. In my own case, for example, I post from home via a Virginmedia allocated IP, my phone via a Vodafone allocated IP, and when I visit my sons I may post via their IP addresses, or via a hotel's. Then - until I retired at the end of Novemeber - I occasionally posted from several different sites at work, each with their own dedicated lines. So people can have quite complicated IP patterns without any intention of avoiding control.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 04:31 AM

It could be, DMcG, or it could be someone trying to hide who they are as has happened with right wing plants here before. I do not know which it is but judging purely by the posts my money is on something to hide.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 05:40 AM

An IP address is dynamic especially when connecting via a cellular network (As I do). A MAC is a unique identifier.

Good to see further displays of stupidity off the lefties.

Your cell phone IP can be traced and even, located exactly on the map if someone has advanced technologies and network algorithms.
As I have been surfing for over 20 years I am sure I have a multiplicity of IP addresses spread over multiple countries. Only an utter ignoramus would try to make an issue of it.

Now back to brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 06:15 AM

As I said, Dave, we've found one of his soft underbellies. Don't he make such a big fuss!

I see that our clownish prime minister is doing his brinksmanship bit again with the EU. There is no chance of a fully worked-out deal by next December. He is blatantly trying to hector the EU into complying with him in a hurry. It won't work. We need them far more than they need us, he seems to have forgotten in his post-victory hubris.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 06:42 AM

4444!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 07:07 AM

As I said, Dave, we've found one of his soft underbellies. Don't he make such a big fuss!

Best cut down on the prosecco laddie, you are beginning to sound deranged. Besides providing me with endless entertainment

Here is a stunner from Bliar Blair:
'Ditch Corbyn's agenda or we're finished': Tony Blair slams modern Labour as a hard-Left 'comedy cult' and warns the party could DIE as he FINALLY admits that Brexit will happen telling Remainers: 'We've lost'

Are you paying attention?

Boris promises to give British judges power to overrule EU law and ‘take back control’

Corbyn and allies ‘marooned on fantasy island’ Blair rages - come back to reality mainland

and some festive news from Guido, the font of truth and enlightenment

https://order-order.com/2019/12/17/distrust-beeb-trust/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 09:05 AM

"Just because you're neurotic, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you..." :-)

Wonder whether he's out there looking for new masts...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 10:06 AM

"Lower courts can roll back EU laws after Brexit, No 10 confirms"

It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. The reason given is that the Government does not want roll back of these laws to be stuck in the Supreme Court due to it being overloaded. But surely if such a law is (or is not) repealed by a lower court, in many cases this will immediately lead to the judgement itself being appealed? Which will, ultimately, end up at the Supreme Court anyway?   The only way I can see of avoiding that is to find some way of limiting the appeal process, which is itself a substantial reduction in citizen's rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 10:09 AM

And, following from that, there may well be several months between the lower court decision and the supreme court decision, during which time employers (etc) will not be 100% of the status of that law. Certainly, there is scope for uncertainty.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?"
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 10:11 AM

DMcG I think that could safely be added to the "Broken Government Pledges" I seem to recall we were told that our rights would not be affected.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 12:32 PM

Could well be that the partisan supreme court may not exist much longer.
That is the great beauty of having a majority. No one can stop it.
That will get the lefties squealing on twitter and farecebook.
More popcorn please.