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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

DMcG 17 Mar 19 - 12:27 PM
Iains 17 Mar 19 - 11:41 AM
skarpi 17 Mar 19 - 10:29 AM
DMcG 17 Mar 19 - 08:42 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Mar 19 - 08:02 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Mar 19 - 07:24 AM
The Sandman 17 Mar 19 - 06:06 AM
The Sandman 17 Mar 19 - 06:04 AM
SPB-Cooperator 16 Mar 19 - 06:21 PM
DMcG 16 Mar 19 - 01:33 PM
peteaberdeen 16 Mar 19 - 10:38 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 12:49 PM
Mrrzy 15 Mar 19 - 12:36 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Mar 19 - 08:09 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 08:01 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 Mar 19 - 07:55 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 Mar 19 - 07:45 AM
Iains 15 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 Mar 19 - 07:17 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 06:59 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Mar 19 - 06:50 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 06:48 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 06:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 19 - 06:09 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 06:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 19 - 04:52 PM
DMcG 14 Mar 19 - 04:37 PM
Donuel 14 Mar 19 - 03:53 PM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 03:35 PM
Mrrzy 14 Mar 19 - 03:02 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 02:34 PM
robomatic 14 Mar 19 - 02:19 PM
DMcG 14 Mar 19 - 02:01 PM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 01:09 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 11:55 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 11:05 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 10:56 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 10:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 19 - 10:37 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 10:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 19 - 11:08 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 19 - 10:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 19 - 09:33 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 09:27 AM
The Sandman 14 Mar 19 - 09:21 AM
DMcG 14 Mar 19 - 08:44 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 19 - 08:28 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 07:56 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 12:27 PM

In the past, laws have gone through the entire process in less than 24 hours. Amending the date if it turns out to be required can be changed by a much simpler process than a new law.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 11:41 AM

The default position is that we leave on the 29th, deal or no deal. Until the law is physically changed we leave on the 29th.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: skarpi
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 10:29 AM

This is the BIGGEST MISTAKE FOR UK EVER , your bank loans are going to cost more , the food is going cost more , everything is going cost more , and the space between the poor and rich are going to get bigger , Iceland may not have EU ..but it´s hard living up here , everything cost so much ...and there is a saying in Iceland , which is : Þetta reddast ,it mean it will be ok some how ? ..but it does not ....if you want to go this there so many things that has to change before you do .

all the best and best of luck
Skarpi Iceland .


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 08:42 AM

Well, Steve, as the Brexiteers insist she is a Remainer, I suppose that proves what they claim about remainers and repeat voting ....


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 08:02 AM

I think this will have to be the last vote (which is probably why Bercow didn't make a ruling on it) because the European summit is on the 21st.

For weeks she's cried Wolf. Now there really IS a wolf. And a real bullet in the chamber of the gun she's been holding to the nation's head and spinning (in both senses of the word) round and round.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 07:24 AM

Funny to think that she will keep having votes on the same thing until she gets the "right" result. Precisely the sentiment expressed by fear-laden brexiteers when there's a suggestion of another referendum...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 06:06 AM

“Much unhappiness has come into the world because of bewilderment and things left unsaid.”
? Fyodor Dostoevsky
“It's funny. All you have to do is say something nobody understands and they'll do practically anything you want them to.”
? J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 06:04 AM

what a state of confusion, it was never explained to people that the referendum was advisory that parliament had the last say., these people could noit organise a piss up in a brewery


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 06:21 PM

May should not bring her deal back to parliament for a third vote until she has pulled her finger out and caught up with ALL the legislative programme that has been on the back burner - including the care act green paper which is nearly 2 years late already. Until then we stay in the EU - NOT NEGOTIABLE.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 01:33 PM

I can't say about any mudcatters, but Nigel Farage has been pretty clear he has no intention of doing it. Photo-ops at the start, end, and perhaps a couple along the way, but the idea of dong the whole thing - no way!

I don't know, but my guess he has left them to it already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 10:38 AM

i see nigel farage and chums have set off from sunderland on an epic march for brexit and freedom. are any mudcatters accompanying the nicotine-stained man frog? can anyone update us on their progress? How many pubs passed so far?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 12:49 PM

Once again, a Brexiteer blames Remainers

You may remember Tim Martin decided to go round his pubs giving speeches in favour of Brexit. It is *just* possible, is it not, that some remainers decided to drink elsewhere as a consequence? Or that people in general don't want to be lectured when they go out for an evening out?

Pubs in general are not doing well, but for those I have seen, Martin's baby is doing appreciably less well than the average.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 12:36 PM

A feudal gesture?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM

We've yet to reach 1984 - sobering thought
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 08:09 AM

We should dread reaching post 1415, as Agincourt may by then have been avenged...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 08:01 AM

And that, my darlings, was post no. 1066.

Hahaha- well observed, Bonnie.

But there is a long way to go to get to 1688...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 07:55 AM

And that, my darlings, was post no. 1066.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 07:45 AM

This BBC report from about half an hour ago sheds a bit more light. Sort of. A little.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47579033


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d432e7a81b83c24fbadf2c94f9e9535a3dd1500c387028be3d06996de64ad150.jpg?w=600&h=261


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 07:17 AM

I think Bercow will have to allow MV3 - it's encoded in the motion that passed yesterday. This from the Guardian at lunchtime Thursday 14th, i.e. before the results were decided:

> Parliament will vote on a motion that sets next Wednesday as the deadline for MPs to pass a Brexit deal. If a deal is passed by then, the government will seek an extension of article 50 until 30 June. But if the deal is not passed by then, the government will need a longer extension, requiring the UK to take part in European elections.

The European Council is meeting on the 21st. So there won't even be time for a MV4. I think that's why Bercow was being so cagey in his wording.

Interesting times...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 06:59 AM

Actually, we could both be right :)

Or indeed both wrong, such is the clarity of the moment!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 06:50 AM

DMcG:
Sorry Nigel, but the odds now that your prediction that we would leave on 29th March and mine that we would still be in a state of uncertainty on 1st April currently looks in my favour.
Actually, we could both be right :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 06:48 AM

Some of the right wing press is reporting that with the defeat of the amendment calling for a second referendum, this is no longer an option.

This is mindless balderdash. What Brexit (or indeed its revocation) is deciding is the long term relationship between the UK and the EU. A referendum can never BE that: no-one sensibly claimed it could. A second referendum is a mechanism to choose between alternative relationships. It is not, once again, a relationship in itself.

I do not support a second referendum for the same reasons I did not support the first: it is something Parliamentarians should decide. But if they cannot, votes not withstanding, SOME means of deciding is required and a referendum is one of the few choices available.

Also, that part of the press is tends to ignore that the groups arguing for a public vote requested this should not be voted on at this time, and that was clearly stated several times during the debate itself. That, along with some parliamentary rules about amendments led to Labour abstaining en mass.   It takes a deliberate obtuseness to claim this shows there is no support for the idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 06:29 AM

I said '15 May' in my earlier post. Obviously I meant '15th March'


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 06:09 AM

Latest news. Brexit delay could be the end of May.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 06:04 AM

BBC live report about 9:55 On 15th May"

 Ms May's hopes of persuading Eurosceptics and the DUP were dealt a hammer blow after the so-called star chamber of Brexiteer lawyers rejected attorney general Geoffrey Cox's latest assessment.

Led by veteran Tory Sir Bill Cash, the group said his idea that the UK could use the Vienna Convention - the international agreement that lays down the rules about treaties - to unilaterally pull out of the backstop was "badly misconceived".

======

It will be even harder to claim something has changed now as justification for Bercow to allow MV3. He will, I an sure, but I think evwryone will try to avoid explaining on what grounds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 04:52 PM

Good news for April though. Going to see Stanley Accrington on the 1st to get a good laugh about Btexit and seeing Steeleye Span on the 2nd to forget about this nonsense altogether.

Who says it's all bad :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 04:37 PM

I thought I would have a look at a betting site to see the options, knowing that 30+ names have been suggested.

People are putting money it seems on some odd choices for next Prime Minister. David Cameron, for instance. George Osborne. Chris Grayling (????), Simon Cowell, Tony Blair, Ann Widdecombe, Arron Banks ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 03:53 PM

Is May a goner after these votes? Who is going to grab the PM position next?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 03:35 PM

Even less straightforward!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouthshire_(historic)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 03:02 PM

Fascinating!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 02:34 PM

Some reading for you - it's not straightforward...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 02:19 PM

So, how old is Britain anyway?

In America we have a birthdate for the United States. It's when we offically thumbed our nose at you guys. But who did you guys thumb your noses at? The Romans? The French? Actually it was kind of the other way around. The took Caratacus back home and paraded him through the streets in a Triumph. The French arrived (as Normans) and taught you a new language. Which you successfully absorbed in one of the great turnabout conquests of all time. (Good job on that, by the way!)

So, whence do y'all date from?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 02:01 PM

So May will be asking for an extension. It may not be granted, of course, but if it is it will either be to 30 June or later.

Sorry Nigel, but the odds now that your prediction that we would leave on 29th March and mine that we would still be in a state of uncertainty on 1st April currently looks in my favour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 01:09 PM

Here's one for the remainiacs to chew on (hot off guidos press)

Sarah Wollaston’s amendment calling for a long extension to provide time for a second referendum has been crushed this evening by 334 votes to just 85


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM

If this vote was democratic in the first place it would have been based on full information of what people were voting for
It was not democratic in any way, it was based on turning one group of people against the other - the worst kind of populism.
The very first result of this was an immediate rise in racist incidents
THat is now even been acknowledged by the extremist right who have realised the necessity to CLEAN UP THEIR IMAGE
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 11:55 AM

I repeat....

"Democracy provides for an electorate to change its opinion - that's why we have a General Election every five years. A Referendum is an expression of opinion at a fixed point in time, based on circumstances prevailing at that time. Should those circumstances change, it is not only democratic, but perfectly reasonable, to ask the electorate whether it still has the same opinion, or whether that opinion has changed.

The only 'extremists' around here are those who seek to deny the electorate its democratic right and the opportunity to either confirm its original opinion or change its mind.

What are those extremists afraid of, and why?"

Well....??


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 11:05 AM

Knife crime in the UK is a serious issue. 17.4,000,000 people were stabbed in the back yesterday.

"I know people voted for Brexit for a range of reasons, but many of us did so to regain sovereignty - i.e. to take back control from an EU political elite who seem arrogant, out of touch, incompetent, unaccountable and undemocratic. Can someone please help me understand why our own government would wish to inflame that sentiment and become the focus of it by thwarting Brexit through being arrogant, out of touch, incompetent, unaccountable and undemocratic?!?! Populism (actually anti-establishment-ism) is on the rise all across the West, and politicians seem astonishingly blind to their role in causing it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 10:56 AM

I seem to recollect the gnome being publicly rebuked for his abysmal behaviour. The pots twould appear to vastly outnumber the "alleged " kettle.
Your posts are all archived, even some you thought deleted!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 10:46 AM

Precisely, Dave! Just waiting for more abuse. It's all he's got. At least I get a good laugh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 10:37 AM

Rhetorical question I presume BWM :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 10:30 AM

So, having received no reply the first time (other than the usual abuse)m I'll ask again - why are the Brexshiteers, who constantly and vociferously proclaim their profound belief and faith in their perceived version of 'democracy', so fearful of granting the electorate their undeniable, actual democratic right to a re-vote in order to confirm their earlier opinion or, alternatively, demonstrate that they have changed their collective mind?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 11:08 AM

That's just another invitation for him to continue. Just don't encourage him. It really is very simple.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 10:39 AM

The pub must have closed - let him sleep it off
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 09:33 AM

Don't respond
Don't fall for his nonsense
Don't even read his posts if at all possible

It is proven to work but some keep encouraging him. Just stop it please. It is beyond a joke.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 09:27 AM

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 08:28 AM

You're going to allow this offensive clown to close this thread if you're not careful Baccy


I do not believe I was the one recently called a bastard. Whoever it was must have been pretty offensive. I believe anyone studying the contributions by the usual suspects will find reams of offensive comments especially directed at the recently departed Keith.

Here is how jimmy refutes an argument
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 28 Feb 17 - 05:32 AM
Piss off you pair of racist pricks

An extremely educated, well crafted response(from a 7th or 8th grader)

Nothing sensible to say so remainiacs resort to insults, bullying and bluster as usual shortly to bring death to yet another thread.g


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 09:21 AM

The referendum was advisory parliament always had the power to over rule ,this was not explained to people , as a result of Cromwell, parliaments powers were increased.

I predict the next conservative leader will be Sajid Javid.
I am a supporter of Jermy Corbyn,but i think the next labour leader might be Sadiq Aman Khan ., if he remains in the labour party


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 08:44 AM

One of the amendments being debated is from Chris Bryant sayingthat the May's deal should not be brought back before Parliament. I assume the reasons will be those in Erskine May. I would be very surprised if that amendment were to pass, but if it did I think Bercow would find himself obliged to require a more significant change than the "change of advice" fig-leaf. Even if rejected, it may mean bringing MV3 becomes the final chance: MV4 could find itself ruled out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 08:28 AM

You're going to allow this offensive clown to close this thread if you're not careful Baccy - which would suit the rightists here right down to the ground
Put yourself in their shoes; wouldn't you be embarrassed to see your Government disintegrating before your eyes and have to pretend all is well?
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 07:56 AM

Not near as hilarious as I find your "contributions" on brexit.


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