BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question

Subject: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 05:53 AM

what does it represent?

a small (maybe 4-6 inches long) oval cast iron plate. Screws at each end. Bearing the raised letters "S J".

I asked in response to an erroneous suggestion on a local history Fakebook group. It got no answer. Twice - the second time with an image (here).

Found 3 in one small Cotswold town (aka village).

Mudcat usually triumphs where other avenues fail..........

TIA
Mr Red

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 06:19 AM

A firemark perhaps. To identify the insurance company whose fire engines would attend fires at the site.

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 06:45 AM

Anchor plate. They are used to stop old walls from bowing out. There'll be one on the opposite side of the house and there'll be a tie bar connecting the two. They come in various shapes, often decorative. A very common one is a diagonal cross, a big X. The initials, not unusual, could be those of the cottage owner of old.

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 07:25 AM

On the other hand, yours doesn't look much like one, so I withdraw my implied certainty.

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Mo the caller
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 07:45 AM

My guess would be firemark too. Before the Fire Brigade was formed Insurance companies had rival fire brigades, and if you didn't pay they would let your house burn (not sure what they did if next door was insured by them)

What was the erroneous suggestion?

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 07:52 AM

Is there a cover plate on the pavement or street near it that might have some access point for gas or water underneath?

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 08:09 AM

Firemarks usually have what today would be called a logo, and are in prominent positions. Parish boundary mark? Was/is there a parish of St John?

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 09:29 AM

Parish boundary mark....Most have dates, but not all. Similar to this one:

Parish Boundary Mark - Chester

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 10:01 AM

not a firemark they tended to have logos or emblems with an identifying insurance company, because the fire appliances would not respond to a fireplate of a company not sponsoring that appliance. This was the reason for their distinctiveness. And they were bigger and higher up. And traditionally made of thinner metal.

This could not have been a parish boundary because all three were within 400 M of the church which is slap bang in the centre of Painswick. I know where the boundaries are from OS/Streetmap.

Maybe it was indicating something in the road, and in one case I noticed a stop cock in the pavement (didn't register the other 2) but how is S or J related to a waterworks company? Severn Trent WW didn't exist when these were fitted to walls. Trust me - their age is maybe 50 - 100 .

I did come across a different plate elsewhere that said Junction Indicator, size - about the same.

<PUN ALERT> My wild crap idea (when I was in the bathroom amazingly) was "Sewage Junction", but then why not at every house. 2 were in the middle of the length of the street with no side roads. Not impssible but.........

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 10:22 AM

Sometimes parish boundaries change, especially when parishes are merged. Here in the City of London we still have very small parishes as there are so many churches still open. We have 3 parish churches within 2 minutes walk of me.

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 10:29 AM

We have a Parish Boundary mark here right outside one of the churches....and the current boundary is over half a mile away.

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 11:01 AM

SJ discreetly denoting a brothel - "Sex Joint"...???

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 11:18 AM

Painswick seems to have been a single parish for ages. Also most parish markers would have S^T not S.

Either some other bounday - the land belonging to S J, or building belonging to him/ her/ it. You'd need to research the history of those buildings.

Such signs are designed to last, often to assert ownership or rights - or deny rights to others.

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 01:36 PM

"Firemarks usually have what today would be called a logo" That picture does actually show what might be the remains of something like that.

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 02:01 PM

And here is a fire mark that is pretty similar to this one.

Subject: RE: BS: a UK 'metal plate on a wall' question
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 05:51 PM

these are smaller than those firemarks. Painswick Local History Society will be contacted but replies are not yet in.

I asked a similar question of the Archivist in Gloucester and got no reply, it is his job to know about the history there and its fabric.