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Century's Most Influential Performers?
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Subject: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: MTed Date: 28 Dec 99 - 01:48 PM I watched VH1's countdown of the most influential rock performers as voted on by "the musicians themselves" and was thoroughly disgusted--I have been, on occasion, a rock n roll musician (among other things) and found their choices--with Beatles at 1, Rolling Stones at 2, Led Zepplin at 3, to reflect a narrow taste Anyway,it got me to thinking, who really were the most influential performers, as far as folk music is concerned? You can be ecletic, but avoid people who worked primarily with pop music and stick to people who worked with roots music, even if it was in a peculiar or convoluted way-- I will not restrict you to any numbers--like ten or one hundred, and I will not prejudice the list by using this as a forum for my opinions(maybe later I will post something, but only if I am unable to control my compulsion to post) It is the end of the century, and a lot of wonderful folk music has disappeared, along with the wonderful communities that created and preserved it--let's remember it here!!
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Mbo Date: 28 Dec 99 - 01:59 PM THE CLANCY BROTHERS! SEAMUS ENNIS! THE CHIEFTAINS! BATTLEFIELD BAND! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Midchuck Date: 28 Dec 99 - 02:20 PM In my not-so-humble personal opinion: 1) Bill Monroe. He created Bluegrass music. (Not all by his lonesome, but he did the synthesis.) 2) Bob Dylan. He created the genre of the sensitive singer-songwriter to whom rhythm, meter, melody and any real meaning in the lyrics are all irrelevant. Just 'cause I'm not crazy about the genre doesn't mean I can deny his influence. 3) The Clancys and Makem. They got through to Americans with the idea that Irish music consisted of something more than Danny Boy and Galway Bay. 4) Ian Tyson. In his first career, he and Sylvia defined duet singing in the pop-folk genre. In his second, he almost single-handedly revived the cowboy song as a living medium. 5) Doc Watson. He created acoustic flatpicking as a distinct genre. (Actually, he created it on an electric guitar, but that's not supposed to be admitted in public.) |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Bert Date: 28 Dec 99 - 02:46 PM For someone of English origin who likes American folk music there can be only one, and that's Lonnie Donnegan. He took some flack from American folk fogies who were kinda jealous 'cos he made a lot of money at it. But he doesn't get the credit that he deserves for introducing a whole generation of Brits to American folk music. Not only that, he introduced them to the pleasure of making their own music and not relying totally on the canned stuff. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: kendall Date: 28 Dec 99 - 03:01 PM PETE SEEGER , BURYL IVES for performers THE PATONS for making available all those talented people who would otherwise not be known. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Peter T. Date: 28 Dec 99 - 03:05 PM I think it would be generally agreed that the most influential performer in almost all popular music categories was Louis Armstrong, who practically invented the popular singer/star/musician genre. If the 20th century was about American music, then, as Bing Crosby said (a contender here), he was the beginning and the end of it. I have heard classical musicians argue that he was as influential as Schoenberg on contemporary classic music. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: bill\sables Date: 28 Dec 99 - 03:08 PM I must agree with Bert, In the fifties when Lonnie Donegan came onto the scene not many people had heard much folk type music and even less people played a folk instrument. Lonnie inrtoduced American Folk to the UK audiences but as Bert said he also encouraged them to play their own music. Prior to Lonnie Donegan instruments were mainly Brass or piano and violin and to buy a guitar was almost impossible. Skiffle groups grew up in almost every village and town with Washboards, Tea Chest Bases, Grandad's old Banjo, and the new Guitar. Having started playing in the fifties guitarists branched out into either Rock or Folk in the sixties and encouraged other younger musicians. When Lonnie Donegan was on the TV show "This is your Life" he was credited for the careers of Lennon and McCarthy, Elton John, and Rolling Stones among mant others. So it is my opinion that the most important influence to music in the last century, at least in the UK, was indeed Lonnie Donegan Cheers Bill |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Paul G. Date: 28 Dec 99 - 04:02 PM Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, the Weavers, Florida's own Gamble Rogers who combined picking, singing and story telling like nobody else, and Dylan. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: dick greenhaus Date: 28 Dec 99 - 04:16 PM DEpends on when you want to start. From the 30's on: Carl Sandburg John Jacob Niles Burl Ives Pete Seeger Ewan MacColl The Weavers Kingston Trio Peter Paul and Mary Bob Dylan Joan Baez Martin Carthy after that, you have to decide what you consider folk and what you consider pop. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Little Neophyte Date: 28 Dec 99 - 04:57 PM Rick Fielding |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Jon Freeman Date: 28 Dec 99 - 05:40 PM Tough question and I suppose one that will vary depending of the types of folk music we got into. Here is a suggestion for somebody who IMO made a great impact on the direction of Irish Folk music - Donal Lunney Jon |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Mbo Date: 28 Dec 99 - 05:43 PM Planxty Planxty Planxty Wheee! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: InOBU Date: 28 Dec 99 - 06:34 PM Melvin - the Goink - Smiepher - 1910 - 1962, a vertuoso on the Ukrainian Small Pipes and the alto sea turtle. He was said to influence, among others, Donal Lunney, Bing Crosby, Yo Yo Mah (how ever you spell it), Joe Joe Magher, Albert Einstien, and was a major post-humus influence on Albrect Durer. It was rumored that he was the modle for nude decending a staircase, and his rendition of The Mice are At It Again was a major influence behind the rock opera Tommy. The Goink gave his last performence, New Years Eve, 1962, when he gave his all, dieing on stage from a ruptured left pinkie finger, stating with his dying breath, anyone got a recipie for falaful? There is a small poinent memorial to him under the long island on ramp of the Whitestone Bridge. It is an oblisk, seldom apreciated for its origional meaning, as the stone mason placed too big a space between the go and the ink, so most think it is a tribute to the ball point pen. I have to stop now, as I grow emotional peace in the new year Remember the Goink! Go ink! Larry |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Dec 99 - 06:39 PM Almost all blokes.
Let's hear it for Marie Lloyd.
And I reckon you'll still get further trying to start a sing-song with "My Old Man said Follow the Van" than with anything Bob Dylan or the Beatles wrote (apart possibly from "Yellow Submarine").
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Jon Freeman Date: 28 Dec 99 - 06:47 PM Mbo, of course Donal Lunny was not only a member of Planxty, there was the Bothy Band and Moving Hearts... and I wonder how many bands and perfomers he has been involved with either playing or as a producer... a quick seach lists these for starters Paul Brady and Sharon Shannon, Loreena McKennitt and Màire Brennan, The Altan and Mary Black. Not only that but he is also credited with designing the Irish Bozouki. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Mbo Date: 28 Dec 99 - 07:02 PM Would that be Duchamp's "Nude Descending a Staircase, No.2" from 1912? Sorry, it's part of being an Art Major... :] --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: fulurum Date: 28 Dec 99 - 07:53 PM woody and arlo guthrie, pete seeger, tommy makem, the clancys, the weavers,harry chapin, or anyone who is willing to sing out against the wrongs in this world and bring peoples attention to said problems is pretty influential to me. whether they are singing in carnegie hall or on a street corner. so to all the folksingers past present and fiture, thank you. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Liam's Brother Date: 28 Dec 99 - 08:22 PM If we are talking "folk" rather than Traditional, I vote for these 10...
Bill Monroe |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: MTed Date: 28 Dec 99 - 08:48 PM InOBU--Did you think that the Goink was more important than his brother, The Boink? Bonnie, don't be such a TK!!!(But really, I'd like to know who Rick would list--can you get him in on this?} Peter T--Louis Armstrong is a really good one!! The more I thought about him, the more important he seemed to be--but he is not as "popular" now, and not much mentioned-- Dick, am glad to see that someone mentioned Sandburg, who was, in many ways, the Granddaddy to us all--
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Gary Martin Date: 28 Dec 99 - 10:17 PM On the Folk DJ mailing list a few months ago somebody asked for the 10 people who made the greatest impact on North American folk music. Or something like that. The question was very poorly posed. Here's the nine I suggested, together with one great suggestion that someone made for the tenth. In alphabetical order: Moses Asch - Folkways Records, getting the music heard A.P. Carter - almost everything Michael Coleman - Irish music in America Bob Dylan - male singer/songwriters Woody Guthrie - political songwriting Robert Johnson - blues, early rock and roll Joni Mitchell - female singer/songwriters Bill Monroe - bluegrass Jimmie Rodgers - country Pete Seeger - the folk revival of the 60s |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: gillymor Date: 28 Dec 99 - 10:20 PM Donal Lunny an excellent and not too obvious selection. He had a hand in many of my favorite recordings and his bouzouki is magic but his former bandmate, Andy Irvine also deserves mention. Frankie |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Big Mick Date: 28 Dec 99 - 10:48 PM Mother Maybelle Carter Joe Hill Woody Gutherie Leo Rowsomme Robby McMahon The Chieftains |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: InOBU Date: 28 Dec 99 - 11:19 PM Dear Mbo, Quite right sir! The Goink was a mere 2, at the time, thus the seeming spin on decent, and as to the question of Boink, I am looking for the only recording they made together, the 1812 overture, on nose flute and bubble gum. On a less serrious note, I guess I would have to say Ewan McColl almost invented how we think of traditional music today. Larry |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Sandy Paton Date: 28 Dec 99 - 11:51 PM For influence on me, personally, if not on my century, in chronological order: Warren Povey, Pete Seeger, Paul Clayton, Ewan MacColl, Frank Proffitt and Horton Barker. On my century? In the folk revival: Burl Ives, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Ewan MacColl. Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: MTed Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:05 AM InOBU, What about the rumours that they only danced and lipsynched the words in the stage show, and that the actual recording was done by their unscrupulous manager, Maurice Von Zoink? |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:26 AM Pete Seeger, Bill Monroe, Woody Guthrie, Hank Williams, Robert Johnson, Bob Dylan, BB King, The Carter Family, Elmore James, Jimmie Rodgers, John Fahey, Judy Collins and (sorry MTed) Hendrix, Presley, Joplin and Chuck Berry. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Benjamin Date: 29 Dec 99 - 02:43 AM The most important folk singer- I believe it would be Pete Segger. The most important outside of folk- I going to take a left from everyone else and say Earth Wind and Fire- Six Consecutive Double Platinum Albums ( 2 million ) "That's The Way Of The World" "Gratitude" "Spirit" "All N' All" "Best Of ...., Vol. I" "I Am" First Black Act To Top Billboard Pop Single And Album Charts Simultaneously (May 24, 1975) "Shining Star" (Single) "That's The Way Of The World" (LP) First Black Act To Receive Columbia Records Crystal Globe Award Signifying Five (5) Million Albums Sold Outside Home Country. Top Selling Band in Columbia Records History First Black Act To Tour With Completely Self-Contained Stage Presentation. (Staging, Lights, Sound, Costumes, Trucking, Etc.) First Black Act To Headline An Arena Tour Around The World Without An Opening Act - 1979 (US, Europe, Japan). First Black Act To Bring Full Production Show To South America - 1980 First Black Act To Receive Madison Square Garden Gold Ticket Award For 100,000 Tickets Sold. Pretty remarkable! Not to many will agree they are the most important preformers, but they accomplished a lot! |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Ana Date: 29 Dec 99 - 03:08 AM Aah - trip down memory lane to those who inspired me in my lifetime - Peter Paul and Mary, Joan Baez,Incredible String band (yeah!) Jethro Tull (Hm Hmmmm) Fairport convention (and members including Richard Thompson, Sandy Denny, Martin Carthy in their own right) Pentangle, Renbourne, Bert Jancsh ah so many - I was obviously a 70's gal. Ana |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Ana Date: 29 Dec 99 - 03:14 AM Ooh and Maddy Prior, and Steeleye Span, Scarlet Rivera (does she count ? and what happened to her?) Cheiftains ...got to stop somewhere...Ana |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 29 Dec 99 - 04:20 AM For female singer-songwriter I'd have to go with Buffy Sainte-Marie over either Judy Collins or Joni Mitchell--her "My Country 'Tis of Thy People" is probably the most passionate protest song ever written (or performed). I'd also like to say a few words in defense of Dylan's tune writing and--when he had a mind for it--the clarity of his lyrics. Melodically: "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands," "Don't Think Twice," "Just Like a Woman," "Mr. Tambourine Man," "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere." Lyrics, "Don't Think Twice," "Just Like a Woman," and--although they are incomprehensible, they are beautiful--"Sad-Eyed Lady..." Leadbelly. 'Nuff said. --seed |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 07:22 AM Oh, everybody already mentioned.....and Jean Ritchie, John Hurt, countless church congregations and shape-note singers, hundreds of mountain families playing and singing songs they'd learned from their elders, and a special thanks to those few folks (probably Irish) who didn't buy pianos when they became smaller, more movable, and less expensive, and kept their lumberjack pianos instead. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Clinton Hammond2 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 07:41 AM Umm... Shouldn't Stan Rogers be on this list somewhere... One of the cornerstones of Canadian folk music... Kinda the Buddy Holly of Canada... Just so long as when I say Canadian Folk Music, the name people DON'T think of is Stompin' Tom!! LOL!! |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: InOBU Date: 29 Dec 99 - 08:14 AM Och MTed! Is it not true that they always defame you when you are goe. But, you do being up a good point. I think we must admit to the influence of Milly Vanilly on traditional music, whithout whom many of us would not have the courage to sing the Stan Rogers song, The Antelope Sloop outside of Nova Scotia, thereby depriving the one Nova Scotian in every bar in New York of a sweet nostalgic musical trip to Halifax. But Dam-me I do love that song! Larry |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: DonMeixner Date: 29 Dec 99 - 08:35 AM Igor Stravinsky- Its Ok to be ground breaking Jan Sibelius- Its Ok to be dramatic Jascha Haifitz- Simply the best that ever was Joe Hill- Proved to all that this music has power Jimmie Rodgers- Sang jazz and blues and convinced the world its country. Bessie Smith- Showed that women could sing Mightily Robert Johnston- Showed us how to sing the blues Charley Christian- Showed us the potential of the electron in music. The Nickolas Brothers- Showed us what tap was about. Fred Astaire-Showed us what style was about. The Sons of the Pioneers-Where harmony begain (for me anyway) Woody, Pete, Burl, Cisco, helped to keep folk alive and fuel its re-emergence after the War. Malvina Reynolds-For showing that women could write and sing on their own terms. Phil Ochs, Tom Paxton, Bob Dylan, Judy Collins, Buffy St. Marie, for picking up after Woody, Pete, Burl, and Cisco. The Clancys and Tommy Makem- For bringing Irish music in from Tin Pan Alley and showing us the sod and the shanty. This list becomes endless. There are so many people who have influenced and continue to influence people in the was they perform. Of course subjetc as it is to opinion there is no right or wrong answer. But I would have to say that only one person has influenced so broad a area of musical tastes and style be on his years. That would be Jimmie Rodgers. Don
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Bert Date: 29 Dec 99 - 09:18 AM Seeing as MTed has allowed us more than one choice do you think we could squeeze Johnny Cash in here somewhere? |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Gern Date: 29 Dec 99 - 09:36 AM If your list is allowed to stray outside the folk confines, then someone must mention Louis Armstrong. I suppose it's up to me... |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 09:40 AM He's a big guy Bert...but illness has taken a toll...so sure. Truthfully, he does belong on this kind of list somewhere. As does Willie and EmmyLou because of their multi-layered crossovers. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Willie-O Date: 29 Dec 99 - 10:34 AM If you look under a guitar player's calluses, you will find traces of Doc Watson's influences. And if you look under any flat rock you will find a guitar player. And I don't understand making a difference between "traditional" and "folk" in the first place...but if there were two lists, Doc would be on both, because you can't "pretty up" what he does, or smooth out the rough edges for mass consumption, because there are none. He still plays great and sings great and nobody can touch what he does. Bill C |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: KingKnut in Norway Date: 29 Dec 99 - 11:30 AM Here are the results of the "Norwegian jury": Woody Guthrie Leadbelly Robert Johnson Bessie Smith Hank Williams The Dubliners Pete Seeger The Chieftains Muddy Waters …and of course Mr Robert Zimmerman
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Ana Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:32 PM Me again, and now I'm going to be sensible!!Note how many of us have a bias as to the States v UK, or as to era? I don't think we can truly come up with an objective answer as to "the" most influential' - we will have each been molded/influenced/fed by what we've been individually exposed to. Maybe we should be looking a little broader, and include non-performers (and from outside of this century) - what about those tireless collectors of music, the people who ensured that the treasure's of sound and thought (from whence we sprang) would not be lost, and could be accessible to all. I often feel gratitude for the legacy they have left. Ana |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Jon Freeman Date: 29 Dec 99 - 02:10 PM Ana, I don't take these sort of threads to seriously but regard them as a bit of fun and am finding it interesting to find which names crop up. Regarding bias, I agree that it is almost impossible to be objective and as I suggested in my previous post believe a lot of this is to do with the folk music a particular person got into. I live in North Wales but just of the top of my head, I can think of one person who would certainly include Stan Rogers, another who would certainly include Pete Seeger and one who is likey to include Woodie Guthrie and Ramblin Jack Elliot... In my previous post I made a slightly more unusual suggestion that most have made even though I believe he (including the bands he played with) had a great influence on the direction of Irish Music. If I was to come onto personal influences, I also would have to mention: The Clancey Brothers and Tommy Makem for being the first players of folk music that I listened to. The Dubliners, especially Barney McKenna becuase listening to his playing was a major influence in me learning to play the tenor banjo and getting into the "traditional" side. Oddly enough, even though I love Irish traditional music, the Chieftans had no effect on me. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Steve Latimer Date: 29 Dec 99 - 03:19 PM I realize that the question asked about the most influential folk musician, but I don't really like distinctions in music. I believe the artists who have had the most influence on the music of today are Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry and Bob Dylan. Yes, they had mentors, but I think Johnson was the finest poet of his genre as well as having honed what he learned from the guitarists of his era, Patton, House etc into a style that became the basis for the Blues. Muddy Waters and his band (I sure don't want to down play the contribution of Little Walter and Willie Dixon, but it was Muddy's band) defined the Chicago sound that in my opinion was the direct father of Rock and Roll. Chuck Berry took it to the next step, and say what you like about Lonnie Donegan, The Beatles and Stones were hugely influenced by the sound Chuck Berry created. Bob taught us that it was okay to say something other than "tell your ma, tell your pa, our love's gonna grow, oowha oohwa". I guess that George Martin and Phil Spector should also be mentioned. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Little Neophyte Date: 29 Dec 99 - 03:32 PM MTed, I was quite serious. Rick Fielding was the most influential performer for me. In a few years I might be able to come up with a more evolved list. Until then, I am greatful for this thread as a base for learning. What does TK stand for? Rick, MTed & I are very interested in knowing who you would list as this century's most influential performers. BB |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: JedMarum Date: 29 Dec 99 - 04:23 PM Pete Seeger, Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, of course but I have to add the Beatles - because they helped the genre of folk based music reach mainstream ears. They helped the acoustic intstruments and message based lyrics of folk music take over the maintstream pop culture. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Mudjack Date: 29 Dec 99 - 04:45 PM MIDCHUCK AND MUDJACK are not the same mudcat altered egos, but we sure share the same music taste and my list is his list but add Pete Seeger, Ramblin Jack Elliott. The KIngston Trio has got to be in there simply because they introduced "FOLK" to so many people in the world. Mudjack |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Jeremiah McCaw Date: 29 Dec 99 - 04:48 PM The early Gordon Lightfoot for one generation, and Stan Rogers for a later one. |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: MTed Date: 30 Dec 99 - 11:53 AM EJ, I am not opposed to including Elvis. Hendrix, Chuck Berry, and other rock n roll types at all--in fact, if I was going to list anyone, they would have been on my list-- Bonnie, A TK is half yiddish name for is a person who does what might be called, "buttering up"-- Don Meixner, Nice list and explanations--I was particularly glad to see the dancers listed, because the connection between American music and tap dance is usually overlooked-- |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: Hasek Date: 30 Dec 99 - 12:16 PM I guess I 'm pretty young : Willie P. Bennett Bruce Cockburn Aztec Two-Step Bob Dylan Murray MacLaughlin The Clancy Brothers/ Tommy Makem |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: _gargoyle Date: 02 Jan 00 - 02:23 AM Visiting with guitar players this evening, question was asked.
One presented Eric Clapton (I agree, and toss in VanHalen also)
Another told the story, of 25 years ago, Calpton was asked the same question.....his reply, "Phil Kagey." |
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Subject: RE: Century's Most Influential Performers? From: _gargoyle Date: 02 Jan 00 - 02:37 AM Sorry, that name is Phil Keaggy |
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