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Philip Donnellan documentaries

Jehane 03 Feb 19 - 09:31 AM
Jehane 09 Feb 19 - 01:41 PM
GUEST,Sandy 01 Mar 19 - 05:04 AM
Dave Sutherland 01 Mar 19 - 05:57 AM
GUEST,Guest - CJB 01 Mar 19 - 08:37 PM
GUEST,Guest - CJB 01 Mar 19 - 08:41 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Mar 19 - 03:08 AM
GUEST,Guest - CJB 02 Mar 19 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,Guest - CJB 03 Mar 19 - 07:02 AM
GUEST,Guest - CJB 03 Mar 19 - 07:04 AM
GUEST,Guest - CJB 03 Mar 19 - 07:17 AM
GUEST 03 Mar 19 - 07:25 AM
GUEST 03 Mar 19 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,Irishmen 04 Mar 19 - 11:48 AM
GUEST,Soldlier 05 Mar 19 - 07:51 AM
GUEST,Irishmen 05 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM
GUEST 05 Mar 19 - 12:33 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Mar 19 - 03:01 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Mar 19 - 08:56 AM
Iains 06 Mar 19 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,Guest - CJB 06 Mar 19 - 10:34 AM
StephenH 08 Mar 19 - 09:22 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Mar 19 - 02:37 AM
GUEST,SteveY 06 May 20 - 02:37 PM
Hagman 06 May 20 - 08:31 PM
cnd 06 May 20 - 08:46 PM
Hagman 06 May 20 - 10:58 PM
Jim Carroll 08 May 20 - 06:07 AM
Dave Sutherland 09 May 20 - 04:19 PM
GUEST 27 Aug 20 - 09:49 PM
The Sandman 28 Aug 20 - 03:26 AM
GUEST,CJB666 28 Aug 20 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,CJB666 28 Aug 20 - 07:50 AM
The Sandman 28 Aug 20 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,CJB666 28 Aug 20 - 05:11 PM
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Subject: Philip Donnellan folk music documentaries
From: Jehane
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 09:31 AM

I think it's well known that the Radio Ballad films are available on YouTube.

There are also the four episodes of The Good Old Way (1983).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR0hGLcXUFs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTJikm_gUYk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OycVtRBeQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h38Bc9f9xjI

and Death of a Miner (1968)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4EkHL_zUms



The Other Music (1981) was mentioned on another thread a while ago, and doesn't appear to be currently available. I would also love to see this! Does anyone have a copy?

https://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b752841f8


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Jehane
Date: 09 Feb 19 - 01:41 PM

Here's a summary for each:

'The Good Old Way' featrues The Watersons, Martin Carthy, Frankie Armstrong, Alison MacMorland & Peta Webb and Ewan MacColl & Peggy Seeger.

'Death of a Miner' is about Jack Eliot of Birtley.

'The Other Music' chronicles the folk song revival from 1945-1981 from its roots in the British tradition with Frankie Armstrong, Ian Campbell Group, Martin Carthy, Roy Harris, A.L. Lloyd, Alan Lomax, Ewan McColl, & Peggy Seeger, The Watersons, Steeleye Span etc.


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Sandy
Date: 01 Mar 19 - 05:04 AM

Thanks for posting these links, The Good Old Way was new to me.
Although I didn't get into folk music until the nineties, I really like the early revival singers. For me, this was a very interesting insight into that era, their outlooks, politics etc. as well as great footage of them plying their trade.


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 01 Mar 19 - 05:57 AM

Apparently "The Other Music" was shown at Whitby Festival last year at, I believe, a Doc Rowe workshop.


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Guest - CJB
Date: 01 Mar 19 - 08:37 PM

Here's the Wiki entry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Donnellan

But a search on BFI Player lists nothing at all. And thats for one of the most acclaimed documentary producers at the BBC.

How easily do folks forget. Appalling.


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Guest - CJB
Date: 01 Mar 19 - 08:41 PM

More here:

http://www.screenonline.org.uk/people/id/500920/

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 03:08 AM

Donnellan made some superb films using folk song - one of the very best (which was withdrawn by a panicky BBC) being 'The Irishmen' - an account of Navvies working on digging the Victoria Line, in London
WE attended a public showing a year ago at the Dublin Trad-Fest - every bit as powerful as it was half a century earlier
His two part 'Gone for a Soldier' potted history of the British Army, led to questions being asked in The House and calls for him to be imprisoned in The Tower
Others, 'Before the Mast' (the Merchant Navy) and 'Passage West' left indelible memories and produced some of the finest of MacColl's songs - Tunnel Tigers, Farewell to Ireland, Shellback, Indeed, I Would.... '
At 'The Irishman' showing, Philip's daughter described how her father had to ship out copies of his films to friends in case the BBC pulped them, which, it appears, they did   
Philip, like his friend, Charles Parker, became a major embarrassment to the Media hierarchy; a great man and a pleasure to have met
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Guest - CJB
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 04:26 PM

Two of Donnellan's 'forgotten' films are:

• Joe the Chainsmith (Philip Donnellan, 1958)

• The Colony (Philip Donnellan, 1964)

Both are available on the BFI DVD set "Visions of Change Volume 1: BBC 1951-1967 Visions of Change Volume 1: BBC 1951-1967"

https://shop.bfi.org.uk/visions-of-change-volume-one-the-bbc.html

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Guest - CJB
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 07:02 AM

The Radio Ballads are discussed here:

https://www.folkradio.co.uk/2014/03/the-shoals-of-herring/

https://archive.org/details/FreeUniversityDay5_5

CJB


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Guest - CJB
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 07:04 AM

So the Moot Point is where is ...

The Other Music' which chronicles the folk song revival from 1945-1981 from its roots in the British tradition with Frankie Armstrong, Ian Campbell Group, Martin Carthy, Roy Harris, A.L. Lloyd, Alan Lomax, Ewan McColl, & Peggy Seeger, The Watersons, Steeleye Span etc.


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Guest - CJB
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 07:17 AM

Another fishing doco. featuring Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger ...

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-fishermen-1959-online

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 07:25 AM

BBC Inside Out - Mini-doco. on Donnellan ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpjgu-5nOXw

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 10:57 AM

More details of his output are here:

http://missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/10855/philip-donnellan

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Irishmen
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 11:48 AM

Here's the "Irishmen - in exile" - documenting the Irish labourers who built the Victoria Line in the 1960s.

Download Link

1 file
Irishmen.mpg

Message
The Irishmen - documenting the role of the Irish in the building of the Victoria Line. Prod. Philip Donnellan.

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Soldlier
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 07:51 AM

Here's the film 'Gone to be a Soldier' - Part 1 & Part 2

Download Link 1

Download Link 2

Details

http://www.pebblemill.org/blog/memories-of-philip-donnellan-peter-poole/

====

I'll leave others to upload these and Irishmen to YouTube!!

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Irishmen
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

Lawrence has found a article in the Irish Independent ...

Independent

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 12:33 PM

Irish Independent ...

Search for BBC's 1960s 'Irishmen'
Ken Sweeney

January 20 2010 5:00 AM

IRISH railway workers in Britain who were featured in a 1960s BBC documentary are being tracked down by the broadcaster.

'The Irishmen' was an hour-long documentary special made by Philip Donnellan in 1965 following Irish railway workers in London.

Irish immigrants described their horror at leaving home and travelling to urban Britain in the documentary.

BBC management refused to broadcast 'The Irishmen' after it was completed in 1965.

The daughter of acclaimed BBC documentary maker Donnellan, Philippa, who lives in Dublin, said her father was told at the time that the public "wouldn't be interested" in the work.

"They [the BBC] thought the English public wouldn't understand it and wouldn't be interested in seeing a film about people working," she said.

But Mr Donnellan remained working with the BBC to make more television documentaries on the lives of working-class people.

Following his death in 1999, the BBC began a reappraisal of Mr Donnellan's work and the broadcaster will travel to Dublin this week to interview his widow Jill and Philippa.

"I think the BBC are now recognising dad's work because times and attitudes have changed towards minority groups and the BBC are starting to see the historical and social importance of what he achieved," said Philippa.

A special edition of the BBC programme 'Inside Out', on Philip Donnellan, will be broadcast next month.

Inside Out

Anyone who has any kind of information about the lives of the characters who took part in the documentary 'The Irishmen' can send an email to liz.roberts@bbc.co.uk

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 03:01 PM

Many, many thanks for that Guest

We once had a very strange experience with the film 'The Irishmen', a copy of which we have owned since Philip gave it to us
Our neighbour, Roisín White, used to organise a weekend visit of two fine Sean Nós singers, Josie Sean Jacn acDonnchada and Johnny Marin Leary, both from Carna in Connemara - glorious weekends in February where we could sit and listen to two great singers in comfort without the usual crowds
Josie featured in the film, The Irishman as a link between Ireland and London and was used in the publicity when the film was made.      
Our local trad music fanatic publican heard we had the film and asked us to bring it to his bar which was fitted with a huge pull-down screen and projector -
We agreed and took the film down to find an anxiously waiting small crowd - without the singers
The publican put the film on and it had reached the scene where a young Josie was bidding farewell to his by tyhen long-dead parents, when Josie walked through the door to be confronted with himself sitting at the kitchen table with his father and mother
He stopped at the door - poleaxed - he said it was if someone had hit him in the chest with a pick-handle
Jim


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 08:56 AM

Meant to mention another film, I think it was made by Philip, Ewan, Peg and Charles Perker were certainly involved; 'The Singer and the Song' separate interviews with Harry Cox and Sam Larner (they never met)
We used to have a DVD copy, but can't lay my hands on it
We do have a VCR copy but haven't the facilities to convert it and maintain the not great quality.
I'd love to get my hands on it again
Jim


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Iains
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 09:54 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyqsqnKpwEo

Harry Cox and Sam Larner


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,Guest - CJB
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 10:34 AM

Interviewed by Charles Parker at their homes in 1962.
From the Pete Kennedy collection.


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: StephenH
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 09:22 PM

Thanks so much for posting the link to "The Irishmen"
Just finished watching it - bloody brilliant!


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 02:37 AM

Great to see Philp's films being appreciated after all these years - pity his employers didn't feel the same way about him (or his friend, Charles Parker)
The greatest loss to British culture was their being treated the way they were by the BBC
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,SteveY
Date: 06 May 20 - 02:37 PM

The Other Music
Anybody have an old video recording of this? I'd love to see this again.


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Hagman
Date: 06 May 20 - 08:31 PM

Anyone in a position to re-upload links to "Irishmen" and "Gone To Be A Soldier"? Would be most grateful.....


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: cnd
Date: 06 May 20 - 08:46 PM

I can't help with any of the requests from the web, but perhaps either of these links will point you in the right direction post-lockdown?

The Philip Donnellan Archive Project

The Friends of Philip Donnellan (archived copy)


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Hagman
Date: 06 May 20 - 10:58 PM

Cheers, cnd. Great resources....


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 20 - 06:07 AM

"Irishmen" and "Gone To Be A Soldier"
We have copies of both and others if you need them
I also have a file of MacColl's Irish songs in full made for the Irishmen a filmed obituary for Phillip by TG4
Phillip and Charles Parker were friends and a heroes of ours
When 'The Irishmen' (which was never publicly broadcast) was shown in Dublin a few years ago Phil and Jill's daughter, Polly described how, when her father completed each film he immediately shipped a copy abroad because he suspected that the BBC would destroy all copies
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 09 May 20 - 04:19 PM

Regarding "The Other Music" it was mentioned on here some years ago (I think in connection with BBC's Folk Britannia) that there was only one copy in circulation. Possibly that was the one shown at Whitby in 2018 at one of Doc Rowe's workshops. I too would like to see it again (it was broadcast in 1981 and VCRs were in their infancy then) as near the begining I am seen replying to a chap, now a good friend of mine, who was making the claim that folk music wasn't political.


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 09:49 PM

I'm looking to find the documentary of The Irishmen by Philip Donnellan as I have seen that my Dad was in a clip on the recent Irish in Britain programme.

I've searched online but can't find anywhere to buy the download or archive.

If anyone knows how to get a copy I'd be very grateful.

Many Thanks

Tracey Hurst


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 03:26 AM

best to contact jim carroll, if you contact me at dickmilesseventyseven atgmail.com , i can pass on his details to you.


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 07:22 AM

Jim has been very generous with his recordings. I'm sure its possible to find these programmes online at some point. Please compile a list of films folks wish to see below:


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 07:50 AM

Films are here too:

https://shop.bfi.org.uk/visions-of-change-volume-1-bbc-1951-1967.html

THE FILMS

Disc One:

• Henry Moore (John Read, 1951)
• Eye to Eye: Night in the City (Denis Mitchell, 1957)
• Tonight: Song of the Valley (John Schlesinger, 1957)
• Joe the Chainsmith (Philip Donnellan, 1958)
• Eye on Research: Test Flight (Philip Daly, Tom Millett, 1959)
• Morning in the Streets (Denis Mitchell, Roy Harris, 1959)
• Between Two Rivers (Dennis Potter, 1960)

Disc Two:

• Monitor: Pop Goes the Easel (Ken Russell, 1962)
• The Colony (Philip Donnellan, 1964)
• Dispute: Round 1 (Jack Gold, Ken Ashton, Paul Watson, 1967)
• Dispute: Round 2 (Jack Gold, Ken Ashton, Paul Watson, 1967)

====

https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b6e3456ef

====

Here's a Filmography from the BFI:

Filmography

    1992 Black and White in Colour Television, Memory, Race, 1936-1968
    Producer

    1991 Philip Donnellan Interview
    Interviewee

    1991 Philip Donnellan Black and White in Colour (Rushes) Reel 55
    Interviewee

    1991
    Philip Donnellan/John Hopkins Black and White in Colour (Rus Hes) Reel 56
    Interviewee

    1988    The Queen's Peace
    Director

    1988    The Beauty Queens
    Director

    1988    A Taste of Prison
    Director

    1988    No Place for Punishment?
    Director

    1988    What Is Justice?
    Director

    1988    Speaking to Each Other
    On-screen participant

    1985    A New Tree in Tolpuddle
    Director

    1984    HGV Transport Drivers, Northampton
    [Director] /    Producer

    1984    Professional Footballers, Stoke City Football Club
    [Director] /    Producer

    1984    Staff and Supporters Occupying Thornton View Hospital, Bradf Ord.
    [Director] /    Producer

    1984    Blind and Disabled Workers, Scottish Baille Press, Edinburgh
    [Director] /    Producer

    1984    Dismissed Workers from Lefray Toys, Aberbeeg, South Wales
    [Director] /    Producer

    1984    Production Workers, Peek Frean Biscuits, Bermondsey, London
    [Director] /    Producer

    1984    YTS Trainees, Tyne North Engineering Centre, Wallsend
    [Director] /    Producer

    1984    Night-shift Workers, Kestrel Marine, Dundee
    [Director] /    Producer

    1984    Television Viewers, Staffordshire
    [Director] /    Producer

    1984    Redundant Trawlermen, Hull
    [Director] /    Producer

    1983    Firemen in White Watch, Ascot Drive Fire Station, Derby
    [Director] /    Producer

    1983    Tele-ad Salesgirls, 'express and Star', Wolverhampton
    [Director] /    Producer

    1983    Unemployed Asian Workers in Bradford
    [Director] /    Producer

    1983    Musicians in the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra
    [Director] /    Producer

    1983    Shipyard Blacksmiths at Sunderland Shipbuilders
    [Director] /    Producer

    1983    Agricultural Workers from Farms around Northleach, Gloucestershire
    [Director] /    Producer

    1983    Unemployed Car Workers from the De Lorean Factory in West Belfast
    [Director] /    Producer

    1983    Women Production Workers, Brays Engineering, Leeds
    [Director] /    Producer

    1983    The Good Old Way
    Executive Producer

    1982    Telecommunications Workers at Gec, Coventry.
    [Director] /    Producer

    1982    Underground and Surface Workers at Hem Heath Colliery, Stoke -on-trent
    [Director] /    Producer

    1982    Heavy Vehicle Builders at ERF, Sandbach, Cheshire.
    [Director] /    Producer

    1982    Unemployed Building Workers in Liverpool
    [Director] /    Producer

    1982    Tobacco Workers at Wills No 2 Factory, Bristol
    [Director] /    Producer

    1982    Engineering Workers on Strike at Laurence Scott, Manchester
    [Director] /    Producer

    1982   Too Much Reality?
    Producer

    1981    The Other Music
    Producer

    1980    Gone for a Soldier
    [Director] /    Produced by

    1980    Gone for a Soldier Part 1 The Professionals
    [Director] /    Produced by

    1980    Gone for a Soldier Part 2 The Citizen Soldiers
    [Director] /    Produced by

    1980    Stories and Songs of a Scots Family Group
    Producer

    1978    Only Yesterday
    Director

    1978    The Pilgrimage of Ti-jean
    [Director] /    Producer

    1978    City on the Border
    Director

    1977    Pure Radio
    [Director] /    Produced by /    Written by    presenter

    1977    Half a Smile from Stoke (Item)
    Producer

    1976    Art - To a Degree
    Producer

    1975    The Dream of Freedom
    Director /    Producer

    1975    The Awakening
    Director /    Producer

    1975    Passage West - The Awakening
    Producer

    1974    The Big Hewer (YouTube)
    Adapted and produced by

    1974    The Fight for Shelton Bar
    Producer

    1973    The Fight Game (YouTube)
    [Director] /    Producer /    Adaptation

    1972    The Fisherman Remembers
    Director

    1972    The Shoals of Herring (YouTube)
    Producer /    Adaptation

    1971    Where Do I Stand?[07/07/71]
    Producer

    1971    Where Do I Stand?[16/06/71]
    Producer

    1971    Where Do I Stand?[09/06/71]
    Producer

    1971    Where Do I Stand?[23/06/71]
    Producer

    1971    Where Do I Stand?[30/06/71]
    Producer

    1971    Before the Mast
    Producer /    Compiler

    1969    Seaways
    Director /    Narrator

    1969    Where Do We Go from Here?
    Director /    Producer

    1969    Strangers in a Town
    Producer

    1968    Death of a Miner
    [Director] /    Producer

    1967    The Independence of the Blind
    Directed by /    Produced by /    By

    1967    The Enclosed World of the Blind
    Producer

    1966    The Abbey of the English
    Director /    Script

    1966    The Staffordshire Rebels
    Producer

    1965    The Fortress
    Director /    Producer

    1965    Harry Watton Alderman
    Director /    Producer

    1965    House of Friends
    Director /    Producer

    1965    The Irishmen An Impression of Exile
    Director /    Producer

    1965    The Last Refuge
    Producer

    1965    John Maddin Architect
    Producer

    1965    Sir Alfred Owen Industrialist
    Producer

    1965    Brian Walden Member of Parliament
    Producer

    1965    Frank Owens Newspaper Editor
    Producer

    1965    Sydney Dunn Bishop
    Producer

    1964    The Colony
    Directed by /    Produced by

    1964    The Long Journey
    Director /    Producer

    1964    The School
    Producer

    1964    The Factory
    Producer

    1964    The Beginning
    Producer

    1963    The Proud African A Portrait of Nkrumah of Ghana
    Producer

    1962    Nehru - Man of Two Worlds
    Director /    Producer

    1962    T.E. Lawrence 1888-1935
    Producer

    1961    Sunderland Oak
    Directed by /    Written by

    1961    Men of Corby
    Directed by /    Written by

    1960    The White Country
    Director

    1960    Coventry Kids
    Director /    Script

    1959    The Steel Goddess
    Producer

    1958    Joe the Chainsmith
    [Director] /    Producer /    Written by

    1953    We Make 'em Proud 1694-1953
    Presenter

====


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 12:03 PM

cjb
Jim was generous with his time his knowledge and helpfulness was not appreciated by those in power on this forum


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Subject: RE: Philip Donnellan documentaries
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 05:11 PM

WTF - "Jim was generous with his time his knowledge and helpfulness" TO ME certainly - for which I am very grateful. Great guy - very helpful.


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