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BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax

meself 07 Feb 19 - 02:52 PM
punkfolkrocker 07 Feb 19 - 09:48 PM
meself 07 Feb 19 - 10:02 PM
Stanron 07 Feb 19 - 11:09 PM
Stilly River Sage 07 Feb 19 - 11:28 PM
meself 07 Feb 19 - 11:41 PM
punkfolkrocker 07 Feb 19 - 11:52 PM
meself 07 Feb 19 - 11:58 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Feb 19 - 12:25 AM
meself 08 Feb 19 - 12:42 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Feb 19 - 02:14 AM
Senoufou 08 Feb 19 - 03:21 AM
Mossback 08 Feb 19 - 09:46 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Feb 19 - 11:01 AM
meself 08 Feb 19 - 11:04 AM
meself 08 Feb 19 - 11:11 AM
Donuel 08 Feb 19 - 11:47 AM
Mrrzy 08 Feb 19 - 11:50 AM
Donuel 08 Feb 19 - 12:01 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Feb 19 - 12:13 PM
Donuel 08 Feb 19 - 12:53 PM
meself 08 Feb 19 - 02:02 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Feb 19 - 02:19 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Feb 19 - 02:42 PM
Donuel 08 Feb 19 - 03:12 PM
wysiwyg 08 Feb 19 - 06:13 PM
bobad 08 Feb 19 - 07:06 PM
gillymor 08 Feb 19 - 07:55 PM
meself 08 Feb 19 - 09:47 PM
Mrrzy 08 Feb 19 - 10:57 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Feb 19 - 11:12 PM

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Subject: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: meself
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 02:52 PM

Okay, you've been warned. Here it is.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/politics/virginia-lieutenant-governor-accuser-sexual-assault/index.html:

Vanessa Tyson, the woman who has accused Democratic Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax of sexual assault, issued a statement Wednesday describing the alleged 2004 incident.

"What began as consensual kissing quickly turned into a sexual assault. Mr. Fairfax put his hand behind my neck and forcefully pushed my head towards his crotch. Only then did I realize that he had unbuckled his belt, unzipped his pants, and taken out his penis. He then forced his penis into my mouth," Tyson said in a statement.

With all due respect to Ms. Tyson - "forced his penis into my mouth"? Is that even possible?


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 09:48 PM

do you want diagrams...???

.. or an instructional video...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: meself
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 10:02 PM

So ... I take it you DO think it's possible? Yes, then - I would like diagrams or an instructional video (not that I plan on trying).


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 11:09 PM

Wot? No teeth?


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 11:28 PM

It's an involuntary blow job. What about that is unclear? In this instance, it is also sexual assault.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: meself
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 11:41 PM

She doesn't just say 'involuntary blow job', though; she is specific: he "forced his penis" into her mouth. How on earth does he do that? Is he a man of steel?


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 11:52 PM

Pity any young victims of sexual assault who end up with some mudcatters on the jury...

It's not just the mechanics.. [or that fictional scene from Shawshank Redemption..]

Factor in coercion, implied threat, physical force, shock, fear...

even just emotional blackmail and appeals to peer presure..

add in a few drinks or social drugs...

Now reconsider that inapropriate male entitlement obliviousness to the dividing line between consent and date rape...???

As frustrating as it may be for us blokes in the heat of passsion

NO means NO... simple as that..

don't matter if she's toying with us, playing pricktease games, 'really wants it but is too shy to say yes'.. etc..

If we are civilised.. NO...

.. and bear in mind a guy prepared to commit sexual assault by force,
probably aint likely to take too gently to having his cock bitten...

A girl resorting to that line of self defence may end up in hospital with her teeth kicked out...


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: meself
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 11:58 PM

Try this: close your mouth, in a normal relaxed way - take two fingers and try to force them into your mouth. What happens?


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 12:25 AM

Try this: be taken by surprise and have a cock forced into your face
by a presumably bigger and stronger man
with no repect or consideration for your choice and feelings...

meself - I can't remember if you are male or female, but you certainly seem to be playing dumb...

or enacting the role of a slimy high class defence lawyer...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: meself
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 12:42 AM

Dumb? Maybe - I guess I'm too dumb to imagine how a penis can be forced into a mouth. For all your sound and fury, you have so far offered no explanation of how that could be done.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 02:14 AM

not furious - just chuckling to myself at your astonishingly wilful ignorance of what constitutes date rape...

I already explained how it could be done, by coercion and implicit or explicit threat...
That does not require much imagination, or empathy for victims...

But you seem obsessed by the mere mechanics of penetration...???
Like it's just an exercise in practical engineering....???

"X amount of force met by Y amount of resistance" - she opened her mouth in the end,
which obviously meant she was a willing participant...


Which is my reasonable guess how a defence lawyer will focus on manipulating a jury...

Of course, there are brutish methods for pressing in the right places and forcing an unwilling victim's mouth open...


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 03:21 AM

A man can force anything into any part of a woman by using threats and terror.

He may threaten to harm her or her family.

He may put his hands around her throat.

He may have a knife or a gun.

He may try to stifle her by closing off her nose.

If the woman bites the man's penis she risks his anger and further, serious physical harm.

A man is usually physically stronger than a woman.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Mossback
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 09:46 AM

"forced his penis into my mouth"? Is that even possible?

Its ostensibly more possible than forcing brains into your skull.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 11:01 AM

I wish to say something here.

There were two people directly involved in the alleged transaction.

We have the account of one of them and the denial of the other.

No-one here was present at the time. The context is unknown to us apart from via hearsay and we haven't had the reports of any witnesses. We don't know what exchanges led to the incident. We are told that the lead-up was consensual but we don't know when or if the consensuality ceased because we have only the say-so of one participant.

It's all conjecture here in this thread and there's little or nothing we can, or should, say about it, it seems to me.

But please yourselves, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: meself
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 11:04 AM

She said he forced it into her mouth. He either did or he didn't. I can't see how it's humanly possible to do that - unless he actually pried her mouth open, which she does not seem to claim he did, or used some kind of pressure point techniques, which she also does not seem to be claiming. Sorry.

So, Mossback: how did he do it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: meself
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 11:11 AM

I agree, Steve, and I probably should not have kept the question to myself. I have no more idea of what happened or didn't happen in that room than anyone else here, although I do contend that a certain salient detail in her account is a virtual impossibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 11:47 AM

Its all up to the concept of consent, which deserves discussion since consent is arguably becoming more stringent after decades of abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 11:50 AM

What?


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 12:01 PM

Let's take a hypothetical; Two college age youths cuddle at the request of a female dressed in negligée. After spooning awhile the male gently achieves penetration despite the protestation of the female.
Is it rape or sexual assault?

After a mere kiss adult professionals have two different interpretations of the event.
Is that sexual assault?


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 12:13 PM

Whoever Tyson and Fairfax are, is of no real interest to me - that's American political and legal hot house intrigue...

But the OP asked a question that applies beyond these two individuals.
Which is the basis for my bemused response to his/her prurient
[and I suspect biased in favour of the accused]
line of enquiry...

The Me 2 movement is a difficult balance of mostly justifiable mass anger against institutionalized abusive male entitlement;
with just a little fanatical vindictive career destroying overkill for some men's petty historical 'offences'..

As long as the real bastards get their long overdue punishment...
maybe good objective sense may prevail in the long term...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 12:53 PM

I would second that pfr. However he said she said arguments know no national borders. So we are left with what is said.


He said I give my total denial.

She said what happened was documented at the time with a detailed complaint.

who do you believe?


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: meself
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 02:02 PM

pfr:

Prurient? I thought it was 2019 and that we were adults, and thus allowed to speak of such matters without being shamed. Silly me.

I must say I am disappointed with your continuing ad hominem attacks and sarcastic remarks - and moreso to find that you are one of those who believe that if someone questions or criticizes something on one "side", they must be ardent partisans of the other "side". I had taken you for being made of different stuff than that.

The real world is calling - have a nice day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 02:19 PM

Myself - Ok - so why ask about this case...???

I'm all for not being 'delicate' about 'X-rated' matters...

Are you surprised we find your OP post and mechanisticly focused manner 'prurient' and insensitive...!!!???

If that is not the case, and I misinterpet your intentions..

then fair enough, let's have a proper down to earth no holds barred adult discusssion...

But make it more understandable to us why you are so definite that.. errrrmmm... under normal circumstances..
a cock can't push through clenched teeth...?????


And try not to be so over-sensitive to how folks have tended to fathom out your unclear motives...


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 02:42 PM

You would probably also suggest that if a woman keeps her legs closed she can't be raped? How quaint. This is clearly a disingenuous question from a man.

The ability to keep the mouth closed, or the legs together, relies on having superior strength to withstand the assault. If you're lucky and can fight back effectively, e.g. jab, kick, gouge, or bite, you can get away, but in this instance if she tried to say anything to protest (or breathe) she ended up with his cock in her mouth.

You're being willfully stupid to suggest that it is a simple matter to avoid this, let alone fight it off. Or bite it off. It just doesn't work that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 03:12 PM

My hypotheticals are used in law schools to teach right from wrong and what to argue.
A sound argument is what will sway the court-along with precedent.
Unfortunately,
Many jury's are composed of people not smart enough to get out of jury duty


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 06:13 PM

Men, it's offensive to have to prove or defend what she said happened. PERIOD.

If the question was truly a request to be helped to understand-- Asked and answered is already beyond the call of duty.

Persisting = being part of the problem women have had to deal with FOR CENTURIES-- which we are not putting up with anymore.

You have asked this in a mixed setting where women exist, not in a men's club where one man may "educate" others out of our earshot.

Just STOP IT.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: bobad
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 07:06 PM

Whether it happened or not is irrelevant in today's paradigm which contends that if one party feels that "something" happened that party is automatically granted victim status and the alleged perpetrator is automatically guilty. Welcome to the brave new world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 07:55 PM

Before you Faifax defenders become more vehement you should know that another woman has come forward accusing him of rape.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: meself
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 09:47 PM

Well, I have nothing more to say on the subject, really. I was curious as to whether I was the only one to whom it seemed self-evident that no one can force anything into someone else's mouth, absent considerable violence. I've had my answer.

I do admit that I'm curious as to who these "Fairfax defenders" are - but I'll try to resist the urge to come back and find out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:57 PM

Penetration despite protestations is rape, yes. Duh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Delicate X-rated Question re: Fairfax
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 11:12 PM

Whether it happened or not is irrelevant in today's paradigm which contends that if one party feels that "something" happened that party is automatically granted victim status and the alleged perpetrator is automatically guilty. Welcome to the brave new world.

And that scares men, doesn't it? Stop and think about the millennia in which women were blamed for their own assaults, were not believed if they tried to report it, were shamed for having been victimized, driven from their family homes if they dishonored their fathers by having been raped, and in many countries killed if it was found that they were assaulted. And now men feel put-upon when women speak up and expect to be heard. Wait and few thousand years and tell us how it feels.
#MeToo


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Mudcat time: 19 February 11:02 AM EST

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