UK 60s Folk Club Boom?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Stanron
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 07:29 AM

'Folk Music' and 'The Tradition' are conceptual constructs of 'Western Art Music'. The terms described material that has survived outside the mainstream, sometimes for centuries. If you pare away all the intellectual encunberage, we are talking about 'old songs' and old tunes' and nothing else.

People like me who came across folk in the 60s got it from radio, TV and college and university. It made sense of the explosive changes we were seeing in popular music and took 'community' from the sole province of the church and out into our own informal experience. It got taken up by commercial music and by politics, in quite different ways.

At it's essence it is still 'old songs' and old tunes'. It has also been a vehicle for creative people to comment on current society and some of that will, almost inevitably, eventually attain the 'old songs' and old tunes' status.

As for the arguments, some people will argue about anything, even if no-one else is bothered. It doesn't change the fact that these are old songs and old tunes and I like them.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 07:28 AM

Not being obtuse btw, Jim. I just want to make sure I am not barking up the wrong tree.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 07:19 AM

[Seeds of Love]
Full of recorded folk symbolism Jack

So was Schoenberg's "Gurrelieder", or Stravinsky's "Les Noces", or the little songs to folk texts that Webern wrote in the 20s and 30s, or Harrison Birtwistle reusing Gawain. Using that symbolism does not make something a folk song in anybody's reckoning.

the facile outpourings of Lady Gaga !!

Try reading her stuff. She is prolific and very wide-ranging, and a lot of her songs are anything but facile. They don't really fit into any Anglophone folk model but they sometimes aren't so far from the expressive world of Italian folksong (and she is of Italian extraction).

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 07:03 AM

What arguments shall I try to fit it into, Jim? Let me know what you believe I am arguing for or against and I will have a go.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 06:29 AM

Should have added - and then we can go onto all the points I made about what distinguishes folk song from all other forms
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 06:26 AM

Great Dave - long time since I look at '54
How goes that fit in with your arguments ?
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 06:18 AM

Ah, Ok, Jim. I sort of assumed that you were saying that you had asked for a definition on this thread. Not referring to ancient history. I have no recollection of that nor of what my response was. If you can point me in the right direction as to where and when this happened I will happily accept that your memory is correct. In the meanwhile, presuming that you want a definition, rather than a description to a newbie, how about...

Folk music is the product of a musical tradition that has been evolved through the process of oral transmission. The factors that shape the tradition are: (i) continuity which links the present with the past; (ii) variation which springs from the creative impulse of the individual or the group; and (iii) selection by the community, which determines the form or forms in which the music survives.
The term can be applied to music that has been evolved from rudimentary beginnings by a community uninfluenced by popular and art music and it can likewise be applied to music which has originated with an individual composer and has subsequently been absorbed into the unwritten living tradition of a community.
The term does not cover composed popular music that has been taken over ready-made by a community and remains unchanged, for it is the re-fashioning and re-creation of the music by the community that gives it its folk character.

:D

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 06:05 AM

there are scottish accents, and IMO Ewans attempts were not very accurate, and peope do corractly refer to somebody having a scottish accent and yes your wearside accent is an english accent just as geordie is and cockney is.
the point is Ewan IMO failed to get any of the scottish acents accurately

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 05:58 AM

"   only some kind of eejit would even try to define 'folk'!"
It's been defined for over a century and a half - history is full of "eejits"
"There's no such thing as a Scottish accent "
Couldn't agree more - my point about Glaswegians singing Aberedeenshire Ballads
Rod probably can't sell his excellent productions of folk material because nobody seems either to know or care what folk song is

Next !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 05:55 AM

The question should be not how "folk" should be defined, but what sort of music one can expect to hear at something describing itself as a "folk club". For at least 50 years (from my own personal experience) this has always been considerably wider than only traditional music. The meaning of the term has also widened from when it was originally coined by the early researchers into folklore and folk music - this may be regrettable, but how language evolves is out of anyone's control. "Folk" no longer means traditional music, although it of course includes it, and hasn't for decades.

The exact balance has always varied from club to club. Even back in the day there were clubs who specialised in the sort of "contemporary folk" which essentially means a singer-songwriter with a guitar - not my cup of tea, but fitting in with what the general public now understand by the term "folk". It would be unusual to hear a traditional song in those clubs, but in those days there was probably another club nearby with a different balance, so there was plenty for everyone.

I understand and sympathise with Jim's frustration at going to a "folk club" and not hearing a traditional song. Especially if what is being performed is stretching even the wider popular meaning of "folk", when it should probably be more accurately described as an "open-mic". However old habits die hard, and an open-mic event might imply an emphasis on popular music and actually put off someone wanting to perform traditional or even "folk" songs. At least these days many clubs have a website or Facebook page where you may be able to get some idea what to expect before you go.

Times have changed. Yes,there are far fewer folk clubs, and many of the old clubs are struggling and have had to adapt to survive, and this may not always be for the better. However there are still opportunities to hear and perform traditional songs. Plenty of young people are involved in the music, they are just doing it their own way (as our generation did) so there is no need to fear for the future of folk music, even if it may not resemble what we are familiar with (which would have been equally unfamiliar to previous generations).

Thanks to Rod Stradling, Topic, Veteran Records and others there are more opportunities than ever for people to listen to traditional singing and playing, and again young people are taking advantage of this, as well as listening to our generation who had the opportunity to hear it directly from traditional singers when they were alive.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 05:23 AM

My turn....
1      only some kind of eejit would even try to define 'folk'!- as I've said before, it's a subjective judgment & it doesn't really matter anyway- my view is as valid as Jim Carroll's if a little less abrasive!

2 There's no such thing as a Scottish accent any more than there is an Irish or English one- it's total nonsense--- I'm a Geordie- do I have an English accent?


3 I'm not a frequent purchaser of Rod's excellent material on MT, but what he's done over the years is a huge contribution to the archive of less commercial music of the people & his attendance or non-attendance at folk clubs is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:51 AM

rod stradlings experience is based on one visit to a folk club in 15 years

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:27 AM

By the way Dave
"A) You did not ask for a definition"
I asked for a definition way-way back - you said you didn't have one
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:27 AM

But I'm not going to open a folk club. My point is that I have responded to your request to describe folk song to a newbie. It is there for you and everyone else to see yet you keep saying I have not responded. The fact that you dislike and disagree with my description is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:00 AM

And I'm saying it is inaccurate and you need to define the term folk if you are going to show you have a case
You wouldn't open a greengrocer's shop if you didn't know what the term meant - why should opening a folk club be any different ?
THe constant misuse of the term (often deliberately) has, in my opinion, not only all but destroyed the club scene, but it has put at risk one of the most important art forms we have
The behaviour of the New Age Researchers seems to have signed the demolition order
Folk song can have no future (other than being hidden away in cupboards until future generations with more sense that the present one) find the key treat it seriously
It has been a source of enjoyment and inspiration for most of my lifetime - now I read about lovers of folk song feeling uncomfortable singing unaccompanied songs or "inappropriate long ballads" at a folk club
You have Rod Stradling's experience and, as far as I can see, there is hardly anybody doing serious work in the U.K. distributing real folk song material that his magazine is
Your description is meaningless in terms of the subject - as much as I enjoy discoursing with you, we rally are going in circles and, unless you respond to my points, will continue to do so
I've responded to every point (and even the abuse) that has been aimed at me - it's somebody else's turn now
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 03:21 AM

How many more times, Jim? Your exact words were "You might try explaining how you would describe a folksong to a newbie". It's up there for all to see. As is my response.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 03:18 PM

Jim i am english , i have no problem understanding scottish singers

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 03:05 PM

"Jim you are ptronising, why would i not understand a good Scottish accent ,"
Most people I know hve problems with a good Scottish accent Dick - nothing patronising about that
Brits are notoriously bad with both accents and languages

Dave
I asked for a definition - your highly vague description doesn't even count as a good description
I have just given the definition I believe to be the valid one - what's yours
Where does "tradition" and "the Folk" come into your description
I've also gone to great length to describe aspects os folk song to b unique - and answer, came there none
Try again
18 Feb 19 - 04:01 AM
Until you either start responding to what I wrote or come up with an alternative this game of musical chairs will continue
I really don';t mind being the opportunity to sound off - can't see what you're getting out of it
I intend to deal with Howard's posting tomorrow
'The Irish Revolution (magnificent TV series) calls
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 02:45 PM

Jim you are ptronising, why would i not understand a good scottish accent , i have played many times in scotland, have many scottish friends and even had scottish girlfriends[ there was no misunderstandings in the scratcher].

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 02:41 PM

A) You did not ask for a definition
B) You did say "You might try explaining how you would describe a folksong to a newbie"
C) I answered that 17 Feb 19 - 08:06 AM
D) I have already said, at least three times, that just because you do not like my answer does not make it less valid
E) How many times do you want to go round this loop?

One more time now...

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 01:34 PM

" how many fol-de-rolls and buttercups and daisies crop up in traditional music :-)"
Only in Sharp's and Baring Gould's re-writes for schools Dave
Try finding them in field recordings
Still no definition then ?
There is much more n what I said about folk song - surely you're not going to ignore that !
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 11:14 AM

Well, sorry Jim, but there are more than a few exceptions to trite lyrics in popular song just as there are more than a few exceptions to complex lyrics in folk music. I'm not going to get into an examples war but just ask you to contemplate how many fol-de-rolls and buttercups and daisies crop up in traditional music :-)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 07:28 AM

You probably wouldn't understand a good Scottish accent Dick or, if you are lucky enough to be able to, there are plenty who can't
I couldn't understand many of the Scots singing accents when I first heard them and my dad was born in Glasgow
I remember hearing Matt McGinn playing the gatekeeper in MacBeth at The Edinburgh Festival - couldn't understand a bloody word - he needed subtitles
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 06:33 AM

if one want to hear good scottish singing accents ,one would find more accuracy listening to dick gaughan jeanie robertson alex campbell andy stewart[scottish soldier,wheres your trousers]

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 06:33 AM

"Whatever the title of the thread it is just the same people having the same argument."
Nobody is stopping you joining in - the more, the merrier, as far as I'm concerned
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 06:16 AM

"What was this meant to illustrate? Just how good Ewan was at attempting a Scottish accent? "£
Ewan grew up with a Scottish/Salford acccent as did many Irish children I knew in Liverpool and London - his mother told me that and when I stayed with then for a time conversations between mother and son were virtually impenetrable
Pat always knows when I am talking to my sisters on the phone because I lapse into the Livrpoolese I grew up with unconsciously   
He adapted his natural accent to hi love of Scots songs as an actor does in order to gain popularity for them - particularly the ballads
Does a teacher or a computer programmer sing in the language of his songs
Lat's face it - is a Glaswegian singing an Aberdeenshire ballad not adapting his or her natural way of speaking to sing the ballad?
I got my lifelong love of the ballads by hearing Ewan singing and prozletising for which I will be eternally grateful so any snideswipes any his accent tend tot be water off a duck's back   
The song was, as far as I'm concerned, a healthy satire on an iffy attitude to folk song by a shark
Believe what you want about Ewan and Paggy's royalties - Peggy is still with us so you could always ask her

"Are you really saying that popular songs have no depth or complexity while folk songs do, Jim?"
absolutely Dave - that's why they come with a sell-by date and are replaced as often as they are - just like chewing gum
There may be a few exceptions of course but in the main, they contain nothing and are replaced because it is profitable to do so
Many of them are having a second life in being used to sell everything from toothpaste to sanitary towels

Howard, my experience was very much not yours but the points you make are important ones so, rather than knock of a quick response I would much rather think about what you wrote and reply later
Up to my arse in Irish Child Ballads at the moment
Thanks
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:55 AM

Jim,

Must admit that I hadn't clicked on to your link "None so Deaf". I just did.
What was this meant to illustrate? Just how good Ewan was at attempting a Scottish accent? just how good a songwriter he was? I am puzzled.

Was this written before or after the problems with agents which you incorrectly claimed that you and I both know about?

You mention MacColl, Kent and Tawney, I assume that this is in reply to my asking you the names of writers who get paid a pittance in royalties. Could the reason be that Folk and "Folk" song/music is a minority sport and therefore earns little in royalties.
I can't believe that Ewan was only paid a pittance for his most well known composition.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:55 AM

this is Mudcat. Whatever the title of the thread it is just the same people having the same arguement.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:52 AM

"Does anybody out there have an idea of how many folk music clubs existed in the UK at the height of the 60s folk music boom?"
So that will be a "no", then.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:31 AM

Facile. Lacking depth or complexity.

Are you really saying that popular songs have no depth or complexity while folk songs do, Jim?

I think we can find both facile and complex in both camps.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:28 AM

jim answer this one you accepth the 1954 definition?
you agree you said this?Hoot - I call what I believe to be folk songs "folk" - that doesn't include MacColl's (of which I still sing about a couple of dozen) or Cyril Tawney's or Enoch Kent's... or all the others who composed using folk styles.
check mate, fields of athenry a composed song using a folk style is sung by football crowds, so according to the 1954 defintion it is a folk song CHECKMATE

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:17 AM

Jim says, "As far as I am concerned the definition of a folk song lies in the two inseperable terms Folk and Traditional". The problem here is that, as we have discussed many times, these terms have come become separated. "Folk" has come to mean much more than "traditional". Much as you may deplore it, it cannot be denied or avoided.

In the context of what you might expect to hear in a folk club, this has always been far wider than traditional music. My experience of clubs began at the very end of the 60s, but my experience during the 70s and 80s was that as well as traditional songs you could expect to hear music hall, poetry, comedy, singer-songwriters in both contemporary and traditional styles, and much more. And yes, even "pop", particularly in the sense of Donovan, Simon and Garfunkel and of course Dylan.

We have also gone over many times how to define "folk" in this broader sense, and all I can say is that it is easier to recognise than define. Tt comes down to what would be tolerated in a folk club, but that would depend on the tastes and policies of individual clubs' organisers and preferences of their audiences. Fortunately in those days there were so many clubs that it was usually possible to find at least one whose musical tastes matched your own.

As clubs, and club audiences, have become fewer they have had to broaden their musical policy. We have also seen the rise of the "open-mic", which imitate the folk-club format with no limitations on genre. Perhaps some of these describe themselves, incorrectly, as folk clubs, perhaps some folk clubs have evolved into these in order to survive.

My experience of clubs these days is far more limited and infrequent, but I seem to have had a better experience than Jim in that I still hear mainly traditional songs performed. I think he may have been unlucky in his recent experience of folk clubs if this was not the case for him.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:11 AM

...And I think it more likely to be stalemate:-)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:09 AM

Full of recorded folk symbolism Jack - try Thisslson Dyer's 'Plant lore'
If you dig out his Folklore of Shakespeare you'll find some of the lore was current then
Poets from Shakespeare to Burns used the same symbolism - condemn 'The Seeds of Love' (which, I have little doubt, Steve Gardham will claim origniated on the broadsides) and you condemn all poetry throughout history - or maybe you believe that they were inferior to the facile outpourings of Lady Gaga !!
Even if you were right, you can always find example unrepresentative of the main body - who would compare the lyrics of Tutti Frutti to Lennon and McCartney compositions - certainly not me
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 05:08 AM

Your exact question, Jim

You might try explaining how you would describe a folksong to a newbie

And I did.

No mention of tradition. As far as I am concerned folksong encompasses both traditional and contemporary. Many others agree. Perhaps the contention is that your definition of folk music only encompasses traditional song. If so, fair enough, we can agree to disagree.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 04:44 AM

Re Jim's insistence on the social/historical concreteness of folk sing lyrics.

Look at the type specimen of English folk song, the one that started it all:

Seeds of Love

The gardener is a bit part in the symbolism, nobody else in it has an occupation and nobody has a name.

Lady Gaga has songs with more real-world narrative.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 04:09 AM

"could this be check mate?"
Or 'Fools Mate" maybe :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 04:01 AM

" 17 Feb 19 - 08:06 AM Not my problem if you didn't like the answers."
That was a rough description Dave - no a definition
As far as I am concerned the definition of a folk song lies in the two inseperable terms Folk and Traditional
"Tradition" is the largely oral process that first led to the making, remaking and changing of the songs whose origins are virtually untraceable and unattributable
"Folk" was a term applied to the people who almost certainly made and used the songs down the ages to express aspects of their lives and experiences   

The structure of folk songs reflect their characteristics and their probable origins unlike most pop songs, the personnel tend have names, identities, occupations and description
They are farm-workers, soldiers, sailors, weavers..... labourers...real people with real lives and real problems - they are two-dimensional rather than the flat, lifeless stereotypes created by the music industry - or the broadside presses, for that matter
The songs indicate a working knowledge of the backgrounds of the characters, tools, trade terms, customs lore, and their experiences are universal rather the introspective, which is why they survived as long as they have and, in my opinion, are still relevant - they express experiences that we can all relate to, to some degree
They often contain information that would otherwise have been lost or forgotten, which is what makes researching them so enjoyable and fulfilling
Nowhere can you find the depth of information on the experiences of 'ordinary' people that you can in the folk songs - it was hardly considered important enough to record
That's my take on what folk songs are and why they are important - now tell me how yours measures up
As I have said - folk song is defined clearly in the two words "folk" and "tradition"
If it didn't belong to the folk and hasn't passed through a traditional process it ain't a folk songs
This doesn't mean we can't still go on making songs and enjoying singing them at folk clubs - must sing you 'Hippies and the Beatniks' (Miles Wooton?) or Doneill Kennedy's 'O'Reilly and the Big McNeill' sometime - or any other of the near 100 I can still remember
As long as they fit into a folk song evening they are an essential additive - but that's what they are - additions

Hoot - I call what I believe to be folk songs "folk" - that doesn't include MacColl's (of which I still sing about a couple of dozen) or Cyril Tawney's or Enoch Kent's... or all the others who composed using folk styles
"Folk song" is a genre far too well researched and documented not to be understandable
As far as I'm concerned, those who don't know what it is don't want to know what it is - "the answer lies out there" as they used to say in 'The X Files'
JIm

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 03:35 AM

could this be check mate?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 03:07 AM

I answered all your questions, Jim. 17 Feb 19 - 08:06 AM Not my problem if you didn't like the answers.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 06:38 PM

Jim,
I did not say that McTell's song was a folk song. It is a song written by a singer. The songs that you prefer were "written" by somebody at sometime and you are happy to call them folk. If McTell's song shows up at some considerable time in the future what differentiates it? Oh I know he wasn't a downtrodden horny handed son of the soil.

Personally I can't stand the song but I did admire Ralph's guitar playing elsewhere.

I don't know any "Folk" writers, I thought they were all dead. Could you name any of the ones that you refer to who have been paid pittance.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 04:27 PM

jkd john durrant

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 04:26 PM

thanks howard dear denis rookard , he was alovely man

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 02:43 PM

Ihad a great night lst night,in the best pub in ballydehob ina dalys still run by an old woiman six of us singning the old songs and now listening tmargaret barry amnd other trad music on lyric in an interview of myles o reilly, bury me in rural ireland when its my time

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 01:36 PM

Of to spend an evening watching crap on tele ("how dare you call, 'Call the Midwife' crap sir?")
Feckin' exhausted after three days of superb concertina music
Sleep well girls
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 01:32 PM

"It seems then that you are quite happy with some copyrighted material but not all. "
How do you make that out Dave ?
Copyright doesn't come into what goes on in the clubs, just what constitutes a folk song
You really are not ansering my points

I have no problem with using the tradition to make folk songs - They won't become folk songs until they are absorbed into an oral tradition and become the property of 'the folk' but that doesn't stop them being sung at folk clubs
As far as I am concerned, using the tradition to make new songs is essential - a continuance of the tradition, if not part of it

Excuses are not answers - one more time - how do you define a folk song
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 01:19 PM

It seems then that you are quite happy with some copyrighted material but not all. So your definition of what copyrighted material is acceptable at folk clubs is based on your own personal tastes. That is entirely subjective I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 01:03 PM

I have answered every single one of your points, Jim. That I have not answered them to your satisfaction is not my issue. Sorry.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 12:56 PM

Sorry
I missed you post
I would enjoy such an evening but I don't think that's what the scene needs at present
Once you lose your roots you've lost the flower - these are all offshoots rather than the actual plant

Actually you didn't answer my points - or if you did, you ignored everything I said
I don't regard MacColl's songs as folk - neither did he - your constantly referring to them as such not only goes against my analysis, it goes against the composers
You have yet to give a defiition of folk song - what you gave was a personal stab at what one sounded like - not the same thing
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 12:47 PM

So, Jim, would you complain about the situation I described? I did answer your questions straight off...