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UK 60s Folk Club Boom?

Vic Smith 26 Mar 19 - 07:37 AM
Vic Smith 26 Mar 19 - 07:58 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 07:58 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 08:15 AM
The Sandman 26 Mar 19 - 09:50 AM
Vic Smith 26 Mar 19 - 10:16 AM
Howard Jones 26 Mar 19 - 11:22 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 26 Mar 19 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,Peter 26 Mar 19 - 11:35 AM
Vic Smith 26 Mar 19 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 26 Mar 19 - 11:47 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 11:52 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 11:55 AM
Vic Smith 26 Mar 19 - 01:01 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 01:12 PM
Vic Smith 26 Mar 19 - 01:34 PM
Steve Gardham 26 Mar 19 - 01:55 PM
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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 07:37 AM

Last night I spoke to a friend who sang at a concert of traditional song at Cecil Sharp House recently - to an audience of fifteen people
Jim Carroll


I would like to know the name of that singer, the nature of his repertoire and the promoter (not always EFDSS themselves) before I comment on this and I would like Jim to supply what he knows of the event before I do so. Could you do this for me, please, Jim?


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 07:58 AM

Jim -
Why should EFDSS be interested - because that is part of their job description - they are not a music and dance society; they are a FOLK music and dance society - about time somebody reminded them of that fact
If they are not going to piss, they need to get off the pot.


Can we take it, Jim, that you are not a member of EFDSS? You see, I am... and if I am unhappy about something EFDSS related I email them with my complaints. I always receive a reply, normally from a senior figure and it usually apologises, thanks me for taking the trouble and explains the constraints, often financial and/or grant related. At the very least, this gives me an insight into the way they are forced to operate.
You, on the other hand, regularly post your complaints on Mudcat and anyway they are scattergun complaints rather than focussed ones addressing a single issue. As far a I know, no-one in authority in EFDSS ever visits Mudcat.

To use a biblical analogy, your complaints are falling on stony ground.

To use your rather unpleasant urine-related analogy, you are pissing in the wind.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 07:58 AM

SHe was a fine singer of traditional songs - among the most respected
I have no wish to involve a friend further in this discussion
Tat she sang at a folk event in Cecil Sharp House was all that matters to me
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 08:15 AM

"To use a biblical analogy, your complaints are falling on stony ground."
Deaf ears is, I think the term you are searching for Vic - I have been well aware for that for some time now
I have been specific about what happens at Cecil Sharp House and have a fair amount of personal experience to know it little resembles what used to happen when they had a staff who cared about the futute of folk song
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 09:50 AM

Jim have you tried various county archives?if the material was sorted by counties, they are normally interested in anything relating to county history


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 10:16 AM

I have no wish to involve a friend further in this discussion
Pity because if I knew more details, I could perhaps offer some suggestions as to why the turn-out was so poor. Often the poorly attended events are mounted by clueless outside promoters. It wasn't at the folk club, was it?Any folk club can have a bad night. Was there some rival attraction on that evening? Particularly in London, this is a major problem.
All the events that I have attended in recent years in the main hall at Cecil Sharp House have been sell-outs. Was there some rival attraction on that evening? Particularly in London, this is a major problem.
One that stands out in my mind was a private party, the wake after Tom Paley's funeral. The people at Cecil Sharp House contacted the family and offered the main hall free of rent for an evening celebration of Tom's life after the funeral because they thought that there would be a lot of people wanting to celebrate his life. They were right! The place was packed. The music was scintillating. People from five countries gave their tributes to Tom and I was delighted to be asked to speak about a man that I had known for 50 years and greatly admired.
I was a very happy man when I drove the minibus I had hired full of 15 of Tom's relatives and friends back to Brighton.
To whoever at the EFDSS has the idea - thank you for s brilliant idea and a very thoughtful gesture.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 11:22 AM

Jim, my question was not why you think this material is valuable, but why, when you think there is no interest in it, you expect someone else to make it available.

Do you have evidence that Efdss is apathetic, rather than constrained by funding?

As for getting off the pot, it is not preventing you or anyone else from doing something with the material. What it needs is money.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 11:34 AM

Vic Re your posting above 10.16

I would heartily agree with your views I too was there for the evening of Tom's funeral having known him and played alongside him on countless occasions. I am sure you are aware of the you tube clips of the event.

Re rival events in the locality of The House it can be a challenge. The Green Note just down the road has events on seven nights a week including folk and related music also there are good pubs and some with sessions going on not too far distant.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 11:35 AM

"More excuses Vic, and an apparent refusal to recognise the fact that EFDSS is apparently no longer interested in promoting traditional songs traditionally performed"

The gig in question had exactly the same level of prominance in their press ad as the Eliza Carthy concert a fortnight earlier. More credit to them for risking a totally acoustic gig by an unacompanied singer of trad meterial who isn't well known in Southern England outside of a small group of hardcore traddies. Clearly the punters who liked Irish music used their pennies on one of the three big name, commercially promoted, concerts at other venues during the previous week.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 11:38 AM

More excuses Vic, and an apparent refusal to recognise the fact that EFDSS is apparently no longer interested in promoting traditional songs traditionally performed
This is your opinion and you are obviously welcome to express it, except of course that you do not qualify it with something like, "In my opinion....". That changes it into a unqualified, unsupported, blatant lie in the eyes of very many members of EFDSS who derive a great deal of satisfaction from the many educational, information-providing, sponsorship and financial support to further their interest in traditional song, music, drama, story-telling and dance that they receive from the organisation.
You seem to feel the need to hurl unsupported but regular criticism at EFDSS, Comhaltas, the majority of singer-songwriters, folk clubs, and the whole gamut of things that you disprove of. Reasoned criticism is one thing and can be helpful in evaluation; wholesale condemnation in perjorative unsupported terms is quite another. For one thing, it changes the focus from the main matter in hand of the thread to your bald statements and the many objections to them. As Joe says, It is boring!.
Joe's intervention at 23 Mar 19 - 09:28 AM and the removal of some of your more bilious posts seemed to clear the air. The next post was my I give a loud sigh of relief and hope that this thread had now been rescued and that something like a civilised exchange of views can be resumed. followed by your Amen to that. The air was cleared. We could, and did, resume discussion of aspects of the subject, yet here you are, only three days later, back in full attack mode, returning with unsupported statements about the EFDSS.
Please could you tell me PM or by posting here what you are trying to achieve?


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 11:47 AM

I don't understand how the EFDSS can be blamed for not promoting traditional material if only 15 people show up when they do.

Where are these mythical thousands of followers of tradiional music that left the UK folk clubs and are just waiting for it all to come back?

Did they all migrate to Ireland?

Just a thought


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 11:52 AM

"Clearly the punters who liked Irish music "
Traditional singing, I hope you mean - it's really time that those in England are producing far more traditionally representative singers (and younger) over here than they are doing back home

"when you think there is no interest in it, you expect someone else to make it available."
I expect those whose job description should make them interested should be gathering all this material together - not just ours - that's what they are paid for - not promoting singer-songwriters

"As for getting off the pot, it is not preventing you or anyone else from doing something with the material."
See previous answer

To those who might be interested - I seem to hit on a seam of folk song lovers who are genuinely interested in the real think so my PCloud box is constantly on the go supplying examples of the real thing to them, and will be for some time to come - it's a bit random 'cause I'm responding to requests
Anybody who wishes to be added to my link list can PM me their e-mail address - promise I wont tell the Ed Sheeran fans :->
Jim   
I'm having a great deal of trouble posting to this site - I was totally unable to yesterday
Is it something I've said?
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 11:55 AM

"Did they all migrate to Ireland?
Just a thought"
This one did
I know many who just play the old albums and live on their memories - including some of the best singers and singeresses of yesteryear
Every now and then I am stuck by the though "I thought he/she was dead"
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 01:01 PM

Jim wrote:-
To those who might be interested - I seem to hit on a seam of folk song lovers who are genuinely interested in the real think so my PCloud box is constantly on the go supplying examples of the real thing to them, and will be for some time to come

This is great news Jim! I feel the same when I answer questions, give additional details or help searchers find what they are after using the Sussex Traditions database. I wonder who gets the more enquiries? Not that it matters because we are both doing exactly the same sort of job. Whatever the numbers, I am sure they are dwarfed by the various responses to the 80,000 plus items of the EFDSS funded "Full English Digital Archive"

Wouldn't it be great if we could say that each in their different ways that
Jim Carroll's PCloud box, Sussex Traditions and the EFDSS Full English are all doing their best in their different ways and scales to bring the real traditional music and song of these islands to generations that were born after traditional music ceased to be an integral part of communities in these islands because the information-rich modern world blocks out the previous way in which communities receive their music and entertainment.

Unfortunately, we cannot do this because of your belief expressed earlier today and many times before that because of the fact that EFDSS is apparently no longer interested in promoting traditional songs traditionally performed.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 01:12 PM

Cop out Vic
We're doing our job (never had any doubt you were) - EFDSS is not doing theirs - to repeat "because of the fact that EFDSS is apparently no longer interested in promoting traditional songs traditionally performed."
We can spin on this head of a pin forever but the proof of the pudding..... and all that
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 01:34 PM

To Jim
Thank you. That last post was very helpful. Am I right in thinking that your message is The EFDSS is apparently no longer interested in promoting traditional songs traditionally performed and that is because I say that the EFDSS is apparently no longer interested in promoting traditional songs traditionally performed; no questions, no reasons, no explanations. I have said it and therefore it is fact. Please just accept my authority and we will move on.

To everyone else.
Am I right in being minded in this of the Prime Minister's latest Brexit speech in the House of Commons last night?


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Mar 19 - 01:55 PM

Mudcat struggling, but not this thread.

Nothing new is being accomplished on this thread and it appears to be slowing down all of Mudcat. This is, at the very least, a time out. Go make music.


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