UK 60s Folk Club Boom?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 03:45 AM

" 03 Mar 19 - 12:53 PM ."
This gets beyond a joke Dave - I have responded to this and all of your questions
You stillm stoically refuse to mine or to my responses
Somewhat pissing in the wind I think
When you start to reciprocate, I'll repeat the answers I have already given
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 03:41 AM

quote - "Surely the massive reduction of clubs accross the board needs to be a major issue here
Jim"

Only if folk clubs continue to be the main thrust of the revival. Several knowledgeable involved people have given the opinion that this is no longer the case,

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 03:07 PM

Just a gentle reminder, Jim. See Date: 03 Mar 19 - 12:53 PM .

Ta.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 01:41 PM

"maybe you should start one to revive the revival?"
Not being part of a living tradition, retreating to your home would be meaningless - in fact, a retreat
The problem with pub singing you lay yourself open to hostility from locals who may not be into that sort of thing or singing over a noise
We have descriptions of kitchen singing where long ballads could be sung to a totally receptive audience - can't think of a pub I've ever been in where that could happen
The same goes for good music sessions - we constantly hear complaints from some of our best musicians about being treated as 'muzak' in pubs
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 01:30 PM

Well if traditional singing was traditionally "At home usually, but it died and we decided to revive it" (Jim) and the clubs with traditional singing have died maybe you should start one to revive the revival?

Me, I'd prefer a pub session, as was described way up the thread.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 01:10 PM

Surely the massive reduction of clubs accross the board needs to be a major issue here
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 12:54 PM

This whole thread reminds me of a letter about stop and search in a newspaper just after the 1981 Brixton riots.

The point was that the writer had a lovely village bobby in the middle of rural Norfolk therefore there was nothing wrong with the Metropolitan Police in the inner city.

Most of the arguements seem to bwe based on similar extrapolation. I could give a list of clubs where you would be lucky to hear one trad song in a night and another of clubs where trad was predominant. Pick the list that fits your preconceptions.

Curiously in my examples it is the singers clubs where trad has died out and the guest booking clubs where residents are more likely to sing trad material.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM

2Has anyone got any GOOD news about Brexit?2
changed yes - no folk scene that can't guarantee folk songs can be described as healthy bcan be described as healthy by any stretch of teh imagination, neither can a scene that can't define what has replaced folk song
The movement towards payment as an incentive is a huge step back to the dauys of a music industry controlled culture - the very thing the clubs were set up to escape
It has been more or less admitted that the clubs have moved towards a guest policy rather than resident reliant clubs
Also admitted is the shift from clubs to festivals as venues
Rod Stradling's editorial poined out that Dance and Song had more or less abandoned traditional song, so I checked their site to find that, while they have dine a magnificent job on digitising Sharp's diaries, the only sound items were one, not unpleasant but not likely to inspire meodeon piece and around a dozen very mediocre singer/songwriter performances that bore no relation to folk song
Young stalwarts maty be 'doing well' but folk song appears to gone out of the window.
How can that be described as "healthy"
You don't have to go far to gauge the present health of the folk scene -the arguments put up on these threads save you the journey
Sorry Ray (and sorry for getting your name wrong previously)
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: r.padgett
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 11:55 AM

Jim the Folk scene has and is changing and is much more "healthy" than it was in the 1960s ~ believe it or not there are quite a number of "young thrusters" {Sid Kipper term} who at the very least rely on folk song and music as part of their semi pro/ft income ~ some also teach on folk related courses and have have other jobs

The 1960s folk singers ~ well yes some were indeed full time folkies reliant on folk club gigs and festival income ~ some were semi professional and some were "just" devoted to the music and its continuance with or without financial reward ~ long may it be so!

I think it is important to note the role of drink throughout which has and had good and bad points to its use by musicians and singers and of course the money derived from its sale

By the by a recently received copy of the EFDSS magazine does show how well the younger stalwarts are doing and how things were and have now changed

Ray

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 07:38 AM

I'm not sure about that. I remember someone criticising Arnold wesker's play Roots as naive. In the play Beatty (the country girl who has been working in the city and become 'sophisticated ' by her Jewish lover) . She's very rejecting of her parents when she returns to her rural Norfolk Home. Anyway she plays some classical music ( Bizet) to her Mum and soon they are both dancing round the living room in exuberant appreciation of the music.

Similarly in his play Chips with Everything. Its about some RAF national Servicemean. Its a dance and the boys are dancing round, getting drunk and fooling around to some vapid pop music. Much to the delight of the officers. But the 'hero' interrupts this with a rendition of The Cutty Wren. And he sweeps up a passionate response by the other recruits.

Wesker was criticised. Critics said - mere exposure to a superior cultural experience will not do the trick. Which I always thought chimed in with my experience of the world also.   the artist has (in my experience) to skillfully present his work with every artifice and aid known to man. Using all his cunning and intelligence. I loved Magic Lantern and the way Taffy Thomas and Tim laycock presented the ballads.

Still its only my view of things. I can understand other people think that only an uncompromisingly pure delivery will protect the tradition. I don't think both views need to be exclusive.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 03:48 AM

" and of course the need for folk singers to make a living"
I knew very few singers who needed to Ron - they did it for the love of the songs as people have always done
The scene was setup to escape the situation where money was the driving force - now were back where we started it seems
I agree audiences need to be receptivve, but "knowledgeable" - surely not
You get to know about songs by listening to them - knowledge comes to those do
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: r.padgett
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 03:35 AM

Maintaining the performance of traditional songs can be difficult for performers ~ the problem is that audiences need to be receptive and knowledgeable

Venues such as the more controllable folk clubs in pubs are diminishing, however mixed sessions of songs and music (such as melodeons, concertinas etc) also provide an opportunity to sing unaccompanied songs

The used of pas and the ever increasing move with the times also tends to make the singing and appreciation of traditional songs a problem ~ and of course the need for folk singers to make a living

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 02:38 AM

Confirms what a rare beast trad songs have become as far as I'm concerned Dick - keep up the good work
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 03:16 PM

On a number of occasions in the last two years , when i have been guesting in uk folk clubs, audience members have approached me in the break and remarked how much they enjoyed hearing some trad songs and saying, they would prefer it if more guest singers sang trad material .

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 12:23 PM

Still have a couple of as I Roved Out programme - It did include singers from the Republic
The collection it drew from was carried out by the BBC at that time and includes some of the very best recordings of folk songs ever made, especially those from The Northern Counties - still largely unheard
One of the singers was Mamo Clancy, mother to the Clancy Brothers
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: beachcomber
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 11:22 AM

Remember the old BBC LIGHT PROGRAMME used to broadcast a Sunday morning show in the early 1950s, with recordings of folk singers from around the country side of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The programme was titled "AS I RODE OUT" and,in fact, the signature tune was a recording of Sarah Maken from Keady, Co. Armagh in N.I. singing "As I rode out on a May morning". This lady was the mother of Tommy Makem who sang and played banjo with the Clancy Brothers.
I do not remember if any singers or musicians from the Irish Republic were included but I feel that they were not. Growing up in rural Ireland I was quite used to hearing the Sean Nos style of singing as well as the old adapted humourous songs, from Music Hall and Irish American sources.
Perhaps it is wrong to call the latter kind "Irish" , maybe Anglo-Irish would be more appropriate but they were welcomed at weddings, Christenings and even some wakes around where I lived. The tradition of singing and entertaining carried them with it.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Attendee
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 01:05 PM

How did people make their own music before that - 'traditionally'?

The short answer to your question GUEST,jag is - Yes that is exactly how they did it, with regard to Gaelic working songs, they normally had no accompaniment, they had no written music, they were normally made up and sung by women and they were passed on by mouth.

the folk clubs were set up so we could make our own music rather than pay someone to do it for us

That was certainly the case back when "Skiffle" broke away from its Jazz background, and it is the case in my area now where folk clubs book about twelve Guest performers each year. The folk club regulars always turn up to sing and play at the "session" nights but rarely if ever turn up to hear the Guest artists where the clubs get a completely different audience. Unfortunately you never know what you might hear at the "session" nights.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 12:53 PM

You have argued for all sorts of music veing valid at folk clubs

Give me one example of my having done so, Jim. You keep saying things like that and when challenged, never finding any examples. That is because there are none. I think you are attributing someone else's posts to me. I have only ever said folk music, both traditional and contemporary, is what folk clubs are for. I started a separate thread to see If there was a general consensus of what constitutes a contemporary folk song and it you want to see what is the general view on that feel free to read that thread.

You also said "what people here sing seems to have no distinct identity" and have spectacularly managed to avoid explaining how you came to that conclusion.

As to "Some time ago I put up a list of things I believe make folk song unique, yo ignored it - I asked again". There does not seem to be a question in that. How can I answer it?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 12:49 PM

"How did people make their own music before that - 'traditionally'?"
At home usually, but it died and we decided to revive it
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 12:43 PM

i used to go there to see visiting artists for about ten years, before i considered myself good enough to perform in public. i think maybe it was ar least another two or three years before i actually was good enough to entertain anyone.

i suppose it depends on how seriously one considers oneself as an artist.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 12:39 PM

the folk clubs were set up so we could make our own music rather than pay someone to do it for us

How did people make their own music before that - 'traditionally'?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 11:44 AM

the folk clubs were set up so we could make our own music rather than pay someone to do it for us

Not the ones that I went to.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 11:34 AM

"I suppose you'd have to ask someone who relies on them to earn a crust."
Why should I be interested how anybody earns a living - the folk clubs were set up so we could make our own music rather than pay someone to do it for us
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 10:52 AM

I suppose you'd have to ask someone who relies on them to earn a crust. I would think most artists in the folk world have to diversify - teaching skills, touring abroad , playing at ceildhs. working as an extra/background artiste in television used to be the province of many folkies in my day.

Guitars have got cheaper, but squeezeboxes have got more expensive (it seems to me). And harmonicas. I bought some as a present recently and they seemed incredibly expensive to me.

I'm only really in contact with one guy doing the folkscene regularly as principal source of revenue. he seems to work regularly enough.

I notice that alot of artists nowadays seem to do concerts in village halls, which I can't remember in the 1960's. Programmes like Artsreach.

as you say - things do change. Perhaps folk music has gone a bit up market from the old folkclub. I suppose the price of petrol made that inevitable. When Peggy and Ewan used to play the clubs for £60, and Tony Capstick cost £35, you could fill a car up with petrol for thirty bob.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 10:47 AM

"The nature of booms is that don't last long, "
The folk boom lasted for about 2/3 years, up to the pointgt when the Industry decided they's made there money and moved on elsewhere
When they'd gone the clubs flourished and, free from the demands of the media they began to explore the repertoire and the styles - that lasted for at least another two decades and would have continued had the "anything goes anyhow" moved in - now their bombing
Folk song continues to nbe important but has lost its public face
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 10:30 AM

During the 60's access to folk was vinyl radio, tv and for a few reel to reel. Many contemporary folk artists were around then and the genre had huge exposure on radio and tv compared to today. The medium consisted of artist/e audience with some floor singers, depending on venue. Julie Felix, Judy Collins, Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez etc etc. they all performed and the audience was passive. Interaction was maybe the odd chorus and polite applause. There were no hoary hands of the soil hiding in the bogs making transcripts and changing verses wholesale to tell the world about how their bright red combine harvester threw a wobbler halfway thru harvest. The dynamics of traditional folk no longer existed in the folk clubs. The artist performed, the audience watched and listened. End of. I would argue that as the electronic mediums have expanded the need for attending folk clubs has shrunk. From cassette players to walkmans, to mp3s and the internet vastly more material is available for instant download and fairly extensive research can be carried out online for those that have an interest. I wonder to what extent sessions have replaced traditional folk clubs?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 10:22 AM

Isn't it in the subject line? The nature of booms is that don't last long, that's why they are called booms. How long can the word 'revival' be applied to something?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 10:11 AM

Dave
You keep demanding answers to your questions yet have yet to respond to most of mine
Some time ago I put up a list of things I believe make folk song unique, yo ignored it - I asked again
I also asked how the '54 definition you put up as being your take on folk song fitted in with much of what you claim to come under the 'folk' umbrella
So far oyu have replied to none of this
Be good enough to do so
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 09:56 AM

"discomfort in the nether regions comes to mind re Jim Carroll's views
Very profound, sorry for giving your brain a nudge
"You may be answering a question but it certainly is not the one I asked! "
You may not have likesd the anwer Dave, but answered it was
You have argued for all sorts of music veing valid at folk clubs - what does one of your songs prove other than one folk song was sung that night ?
The fact that you consider my description of the clubs I was used to be a "diatribe" only serves to convoince me that I would have to think very hard before I came out in the pissing rain to visit your club
Why use terms like "diatribe" - not conducive with an exchange of ideas - not unlike our friend with a pain in the arse/brain
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 09:08 AM

discomfort in the nether regions comes to mind re Jim Carroll's views

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 09:02 AM

my image.....oh dear!

I will contact my publicity manager and inform him of your concerns. With any luck they will keep it out of froots and all those radio programmes that play my music constantly and have been such a source of strength in my career.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 06:39 AM

Well, Jim here is the question I posed.

You say "what people here sing seems to have no distinct identity". That is the only statement I am referring to. My question is about what makes you think that. I have posted links to me performing in this thread and you confirm that it is folk music. So it does have a distinct identity. I have not noticed any links to other contributors performing and I am not aware of ever having seen them live so I do not know if they sing folk songs or not. How do you know that what they sing does not have a distinct identity?

Your response

Not if it's buried in evenings full of songs that have no identity to what you have sung

Followed by a diatribe about folk clubs you used to go to. You may be answering a question but it certainly is not the one I asked! So I repeat. How do you know that the people on here sing songs with no identity?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 06:39 AM

"well, when specifically - did it bomb, in your opinion?"
The scene as a whole bombed Al and had been predicted to do so if things didn't improve - they got worse
Your facetious comments neither help the discussion nor do they do much for your own image
I've said what I believe to be the cause;
Ji,

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 05:59 AM

well, when specifically - did it bomb, in your opinion?

I suppose you could be talking about a period before I joined the folkscene in 1964.

Perhaps it was me that did all the damage, and things were lovely before I turned up. If so, my apologies to all.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 03:30 AM

Sorry - missed a bit Howard
"simply being naughty"
Whatever your personal intentions Howard, it is fascinating to witness those who agree with your argument sprinting our of the wainscoting - well done you
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM

"I can't think of a single person from the folkscene, and I must know thousands personally, who has left the folk scene because of some perception of the content. "
I can think of around a dozen clubs that closed because of the change of content - eventually hundreds closed, the magazines collapsed, the specialist shops and the labels disappeared closed

There was a major debate on the pages of several magazines, Folk Review being the instigator, covering the content, the poor standards and the general deterioration of the clubs
It stands to sense that people looking for The Flying Cloud and Tifties Annie are not going to settle for The Kinks (that and other such nonsense is what is being argued for as 'folk' here)
The scene didn't dwindle - it bombed.
What has happened in England is appalling - both in the clubs and on the academic front
We know what folk sonh is and, even if we didn't that are plenty of places where we can look
I need no 'closed mind' to state my case - you and others have told me what I can expect from today's folk clubs and it ain't folk in any shape or form

I really never thought I would see a researcher use the term 'folk police' on a discussion on definition of folk song - that is downright disgraceful
We apparently have a self-appointed research team who has taken it on themselves to dismantle over a centuries work and replace it with.... I can only assume, personal taste - nothing else makes sense
Any researcher who has to take out past workers in the field in order to get their own theories accepted are best avoided as far as I'm concerned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 02:33 AM

Folk clubs close for a number of different reasons, they are very often run by volunteers, they are often in seperate club rooms..in the last 60 years uk society has changed enormously.,the number of tenat owned pubs has fallen many have closed many are now run by managers who only stay on the premises for a relatively short while, this affects the availabilty of rooms, these are contributory factors to the fall in numbers of folk clubs.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 05:24 PM

Vaguely!

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 05:19 PM

'Ther characters are unidentified, as is the place, it is a descrip[tion only of emotions'

You could say the same about The Unquiet Grave.

Does anyone else remember the one in Going to see the Wild West Show about the Rhinosauras?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 04:49 PM

Al is a Protoceratops(andrewsi) that keeps encountering a raptor(mongoliensis))

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 04:17 PM

Al
I'm a stegosaurus? What are you?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 03:59 PM

Jim,
I can't think of a single person from the folkscene, and I must know thousands personally, who has left the folk scene because of some perception of the content. You have been repeatedly told by many people in England who are in the thick of it that the scene has changed from one centred on folk clubs to a whole range of scenarios promoting traditional and contemporary folk music. I have just come from a 3-hour concert in the middle of a big city that was attended by people from 2 weeks old (my nephew, Barney) to my 95-year-old traditional singer mother. The performers gave a wide range of songs mostly traditional, some contemporary, about half unaccompanied. The place was packed out. I'd say less than half the audience were folkies, but that's by the by.
You have definitely been deceived!! Or is it that closed mind of yours?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 02:50 PM

"What I strongly disagree with is that these somehow present a threat to traditional songs, "
Go count the lost clubs and folkies and pout that up against why they left
Not a bad formula for assessing the damage Howard
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 02:48 PM

Course we're bleeding dinosaurs.

One of my chief pleasures is bumping into another dinosaur.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 10:12 AM

I admit my attempts to draw parallels between the text of "Lola" and folk songs were simply being naughty, and my argument for admitting into folk clubs is specifically about Swan Arcade's folk-style performance, I wouldn't admit the Kinks' original version because their style is incompatible with what you expect in a folk club

"folk songs are in the public domain". True for traditional songs, but not for "the rest", which you've agreed were part of the clubs you were involved with. Once you admit modern composed songs it is then a question of taste where you draw the line. If you want to draw it tightly around traditional song and songs which sound just like them that's your prerogative, but many people who take an interest in folk are willing to take a broader view. What they do expect is that the songs are presented in a style which sounds "folky".

What I strongly disagree with is that these somehow present a threat to traditional songs, when my experience is they can sit perfectly well alongside them, as they have done from the early days of the folk revival. When I go to a folk club I don't expect to enjoy everything I hear, but my enjoyment is based far more on the style and quality of the performance than whether it is a traditional or a modern song, despite my tastes leaning strongly towards traditional music and song.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 10:01 AM

Whoops! my enthusiasm for the music of The Kinks overcame common sense...I knew I shouldn't have joined in.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 09:20 AM

It has no 'strong narrative' Howard - where's the story
Ther characters are unidentified, as is the place, it is a descrip[tion only of emotions
It doesn't sound like a folk song, it belongs to somebody other than 'the folk' and can never the property of anybody but the composer - folk songs are in the public domain
It has no caim whatever oto the folk scene and claiming it dioes has done much to damage the understanding of what folk song really is and perpresnts - 'The Voice of the People'

"that was intended as friendly badinage, mon ami!"
I didn't and don't take being aclled a dinosaur friemdly in any way Al - it happens far too often to be funny
You appear to have joined the club
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 09:09 AM

I wasn't claiming that the song itself was "folky" (whatever that means), although it has a strong narrative which makes social and cultural point which is perhaps even more relevant in today's gender-flexible times than when it was written. The story is perhaps not a million miles from the countless folk songs about unfortunate sailors who were taken advantage of in some low dive, although in most of them the woman was just that.

You are on dangerous ground when you criticise it for repetition, considering how common that is in traditional song. Even the spelling out of the name has parallels in traditional songs ("and Bingo was his name, sir...")

My real point is that Swan Arcade's performance was "folky" in style, and was entirely at home in a folk club and sat perfectly well alongside traditional songs (which they also sang). That's not just my opinion but that of the many folk club and folk festival organisers who booked them, their audiences who enjoyed listening to them, and Fellside (a reputable folk label) who recorded their albums. It's difficult to think what sort of musical venue would have been more appropriate, if not a folk club.

"all the clubs I was part of had their feet firmly set on the real thing" So were the clubs I was part of, including ones which booked Swan Arcade, and so are the clubs I continue to go to.

The folk scene may not be as strong as it used to be, but the picture is not as bad as you paint, and it is still firmly based on traditional music and music which is stylistically similar. It has always been a broad church, and has included a great deal of music which was not to my personal taste but which I've never felt was a threat to the music I do like.

There are plenty of young people involved, Traditional music isn't going to be forgotten.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 09:07 AM

that was intended as friendly badinage, mon ami!

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 09:05 AM

Spiteful....moi?