Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight

Subject: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Vic Smith
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 10:48 AM

Programme on English travellers presented by a traveller on BBC4 at 9pm tonight - Details by clicking here

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 11:23 AM

Ooh and I just saw an interesting article in The Guardian about how gypsies and travellers have historically been portrayed, it mentions Peggy Seeger, but I could not get my phone to copy the link.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 12:11 PM

Thank you for that Vic, I'll make sure to watch it.

In the fifties I remember seeing a procession of beautiful traditional painted caravans drawn by horses passing through our W London town. It happened every Spring, and we were always delighted to see the gypsies.

They drew up in a small piece of woodland not far from our house, and the women came round the doors selling wooden clothes pegs.

My mother (Irish and very interested in these people) would always buy some pegs and offer a little money. Sometimes the lady was holding a young child, and my mother would offer one of our outgrown coats or warm woollies, which were accepted very happily.

They used to chalk a mark on our gatepost, which we hoped was a sort of blessing, or a note to other gypsies that here was a house which would welcome them.
By the mid-sixties, they came no more. Sad.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 12:19 PM

Here's today's Guardian article 11 Feb 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/feb/11/patronising-and-totally-false-my-despair-at-tv-about-gypsies-a-very-british-history-bbc 

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 12:33 PM

Got his book for Christmas - haven't had a chance to read it yet
STOPPING PLACES
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 12:57 PM

Stopping Places is a very good read and Damian Le Bas is a very impressive man to talk to. He pulls no punches about the way the travellers have been treated or the way he feels that he has been treated by some other travellers.
Vic Smith without cookie

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 01:29 PM

I'm busy painting up a wagon for a man, for this years Appleby fair. I think I was filmed when we were camping with the Lee family when they made this documentary. I don't know if it was included. Should be worth a watch though.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Vic Smith
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 08:53 AM

A thoroughly enjoyable programme. I would have liked to have seen the distinctive cultural aspects of Romany life brought to the fore but it was still a very good programme with good usage of archive film sources.
If you didn't see it try to see it on iPlayer of the other catch up facilities.
You can watch it on BBC iPlayer by clicking here

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 11:37 AM

I was over at the traveller site this afternoon. They were fairly positive about the prog. but thought the presenter was a non Gypsy and were a little put out by that.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Vic Smith
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 12:59 PM

Nick wrote:-
They were fairly positive about the prog. but thought the presenter was a non Gypsy
This is a problem that Damian Le Bas mentions in his book (linked to above). His looks and fair hair do not make him seem a true Romany but his heritage and his manner may not be that of many Roms but I have heard him talk about his relationship with many Kent & Sussex families. It is sad because if the travellers turning their back on him, then they are ignoring a committed and articulate advocate for their cause.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 01:19 PM

There's a great deal of misinformation and prejudice surrounding the term 'Romany', which is often used to scapegoat Travellers who are regarded as 'not real Gypsies' and blamed for mess and dishonesty
We saw some of this in North East London up close where Irish and Welsh Travellers had campaigned for a permanent site only to have it handed to 'The Gypsy Council' by the Council, who gave it English Travellers who didn't want it, who then sold it to the Travellers who had campaigned for it in the first place.

While this behaviour is reprehensible, it is inevitable and too a degree understandable in a situation where their are not enough permanent sites - the cause of much inter-Traveller feuding, we were told on several occasions
Jim Carroll

Subject: Damian Le Bas
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 02:26 PM

Nick, you might be interested in these other links

related thread for a poem \ song
"The Famous Flashing Lane" - Damian Le Bas\Thomas McCarthy
thread.cfm?threadid=164469

and a BBC page with a couple of Damian Le Bas videos
https://www.bbc.co.uk/responsibility/media-on-the-move

He also did a Book Of The Week
The Stopping Places
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b62kf9/episodes/guide
but idk if it's likely to get any repeats.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Swindon/Enfield Pete
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 01:30 PM

A very interesting programme which was refreshing given past programmes on the Roma/Gypsy/Traveller communities. I have Damien's book which I'll get on and read now.   There was a wonderful song near the end which sounded like Nancy Kerr. Does anyone have any info about the song's name etc. Much appreciated Pete

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 02:00 PM

My wife also thought that it was Nancy - but there was no credit at the end.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: G-Force
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 04:55 PM

Wasn't it '30 foot trailer' (Ewan MacColl)?

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 13 Feb 19 - 06:48 PM

The other song was 'Romany Rye'.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Enfield/SwindonPete
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 02:10 AM

Yes G-Force thanks you were spot on. Found the song. And also to Nick. I’ll get on and learn these now. Also would non-travellers be welcome at Appleby Fair. I’d love to go or even to Stow which is much nearer to where I live. Cheers Pete

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 03:39 AM

Stow is on twice May and October, I'll be at Appleby for a day. At Stow use the main car park, (£5) the Police use any excuse to tow you away. There are a few do's and don'ts. If you want to take photos ask first is the main one, and don't just walk up to a camp area and start taking pictures.
Nick

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 Feb 19 - 05:19 PM

If....it isn't pubic and yet its public...
Flash photographer's flash.
Ignor the Nick
Post your photos quick
You will find Instagram quite nice.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Its taken 20 years...and a violent confrontation...but at least one of those "Disney type Crones" begging in Paris is a 20 y.o. male. Much more fun than stalking the wild asperagus.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 04:48 AM

Not the right attitude Gargoyle. If you are having anything to do with Travellers a bit of respect goes a long way. How would you like it if somebody walked up to you in your garden and started taking pictures of you? Some travellers charge to have their photo taken others are fine if you do them the courtesy of asking. After 30 years with the Gypsy Folk I might actually know what I'm talking about. However if you know better give it a try and see what happens. I'll watch and have a laugh.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: vectis
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 03:54 PM

I can't access the BBC as I'm outside the UK. Is there a copy of the programme on YouTube?

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 07:12 PM

I heard the song and thought it was Nancy, and then thought about her mother singing with the Critics and Ewan... so a sort of inherited song...
Kitty

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Enfield/Swindon Pete
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 02:02 AM

Well said Nick. The reason I asked about going to Appleby etc, was out of respect. I wouldn’t like to gatecrash something that looks private. I’m not a keen photographer myself but a few shots of those beautiful looking caravans wouldn’t be a bad thing.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 02:54 AM

Stow is a fair for traders rather than Wagons. You will get a few good ones though, however Appleby will have all the old Wrights, and Gaskins. If you are a horse man, Lee Gap is best, it's an old fashioned fair. Just a little pointer for you. If you go to Appleby and want to find a good civilised area where the old time Travellers meet, go to Fell End near 'The Fat Lamb ' pub. The Police are as civilised as the travellers, and there is never any trouble. The beer is good, but be warned! If you decide to take a guitar into the pub at night, you'll still be singing at three in the morning! (Brush up your Jimmy Rodgers and Hank Williams!!) Have a good time.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Vic Smith
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 08:29 AM

I can't access the BBC as I'm outside the UK. Is there a copy of the programme on YouTube?
Hello, Mary. Hope that you are still enjoying NZ.
Both my brothers live outside the UK - France & Italy - and both can receive BBC iPlayer. They say there is a way of fooling your computer into thinking it is in the UK - but I never had the full details from either of them.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 12:09 PM

You need a VPN (paid for) account with an ISP specialising in the UK. Don't use a 'free' one otherwise you'll be swamped by spyware and adware. Then you can view said programme on iPlayer, or download it using the app. get_iplayer with the respective pid code.

Alternatively you could get somone in the UK to download said programme with get_iplayer and then send it to you using WeTransfer or ADrive.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Enfield/Swindon Pete
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 02:29 AM

Many thanks for the tips and advice Nick it really is useful information. I’ll definitely go this year. It would be great if you’re around the Swindon area if you came to the folk club. It only meets fortnightly now though. I’ll be posting club nights on here again in a week or so’s time like I used to a couple of years back.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 02:54 AM

I have not been for over twenty five years. I honestly don't know why! I've played most clubs and festivals in the UK. Maybe I'll see you at Chippenham this year.
kind regards

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Hagman
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 08:09 PM

"There was a wonderful song near the end which sounded like Nancy Kerr. Does anyone have any info about the song's name etc."

Nancy K. on her Twitter feed confirms that yes, it was her:

"This [the BBC program] is interesting and features my singing of Ewan McColl’s gorgeous song “Thirty Foot Trailer” from @kerrfagan album Strands of Gold."


Details here from Reinhard's Mainly Norfolk database:

Strands of Gold - Nancy Kerr & James Fagan

Fellside Recordings FECD199 (CD, UK, January 23, 2006)

Recorded by Robert Hallard and Robert Harbron at Fellside, August 2005;
Produced, mixed and mastered by Robert Harbron;
Photography by James Pyne;
Design by David Bailey / Kiosk
Musicians

Nancy Kerr, vocals [1-2, 4, 6, 9-10, 12], fiddle [1, 3-9, 12], viola [10-12], guitar [2];
James Fagan, vocals [2, 4, 6, 9, 12], bouzouki [1-12];
with
Alan Burton, programming [2];
Colin Fletcher, double bass [2-3, 6, 10, 12];
Robert Harbron, English concertina [3, 7, 10-11], mandolin [11-12];
Martin Simpson, guitar [4, 6], Fylde resonator guitar [6], 5-string banjo [5];
Linda Adams, vocals [12]

Tracks

    Barbara Allen (Roud 54; Child 84; G/D 6:1193; Henry H236) (3-49)
    April Friend (3.04)
    Peter the Cabby (3.23)
    Locks and Bolts (Roud 406; Laws M13; G/D 5:1012) (3.04)
    Lads of Alnwick (2.30)
    Farewell to the Gold (5.09)
    Three Magpies / Afloat in December (5.24)
    Nancy Taylor's (2.12)
    Sons of Liberty (5.30)
    Lovely Nancy (Roud 527; Laws K14; Henry H755) (3.53)
    Satellite (4.55)
    Thirty-Foot Trailer (5.50)

Tracks 1, 4-5, 10 trad. arr. Nancy Kerr, James Fagan;
Track 2 Nancy Kerr;
Track 3 John Schumann;
Track 6 Paul Metsers;
Tracks 7a, 11 James Fagan;
Track 7b Robert Harbron;
Track 8 Will Taylor;
Track 9 Alistair Hulett;
Track 12 Ewan MacColl

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: vectis
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 08:24 PM

Managed to watch it, thanks to Hagman. I knew that many Romany in my home county came off the road in the late 50s and 60s but didn't understand why. This programme made sense of why they did "go brick" at that time.

I used to go to Bampton Fair for the after the fair folk gathering and the travellers there taught us so much about living on the road. This knowledge came in useful when we started freedom camping in the UK and Europe before coming to NZ.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 03:02 AM

I hope Paul Metsers gets some royalties from 'Farewell To The Gold' - he says he got some from the Nic Jones version, but none from anyone else, including Mary Black.

Subject: RE: Programme on Travellers on BBC4 tonight
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 06:39 AM

Sorry, drifted rather there.

Subject: Romani
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 22 May 19 - 04:03 PM

This week Damian has been on radio four talking to Michael Rosen:

Romani
"Damian Le Bas talks to Michael Rosen about the Romani language and his experience with using it.
Damian is the author of The Stopping Places: A Journey Through Gypsy Britain."
Producer Beth O'Dea
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00050qw