Lyr Req: pre-Stenka Rasin Russian folk song

Subject: Lyr Req: pre-Stenka Rasin Russian folk song
From: GUEST,Anton
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 01:04 PM

I read somewhere that the author of Stenka Rasin didn't compose the tune, but instead borrowed it from an older traditional Russian folk song. Does anyone know if that's true? If so, does anyone know the name or any of the lyrics of that older song?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: pre-Stenka Rasin Russian folk song
From: Ged Fox
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 07:21 PM

You may be right, or are you half-remembering that the author of "The Carnival is Over" got the tune from "Stenka Rasin?"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: pre-Stenka Rasin Russian folk song
From: GUEST,Anton
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 11:40 AM

Thanks for the reply, Ged Fox. I understood the lineage from "Stenka Razin" (1883, Dmitri Sadovnikov) to "River of My People" (1953, Pete Seeger) to The Carnival Is Over" (1965, Tom Springfield). It's possible that my source made the juxtaposition you suggested. Unfortunately, I can't find my notes on it.

All I can find now is the Wikipedia article on the person Stenka Razin, which says:
Stenka Razin is the hero of a popular Russian folk song, Ponizovaya Volnitsa, better known by the words Volga, Volga mat' rodnaya, Iz za ostrova na strezhen, and, simply, Stenka Razin. The words were written by Dmitri Sadovnikov (??????? ?????????? ??????????) in 1883; the music is folk.

I suppose that "the music is folk" could mean that Sadonikov wrote it as a poem and it was later made into a song but the composer's name has been forgotten. But it could also mean that Sadonikov wrote the words around an existing tune that he liked, just as Seeger and Springfield did.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: pre-Stenka Rasin Russian folk song
From: GUEST,Anton
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 11:57 AM

The Wikipedia article on Sadovnikov says:
Sadovnikov has never received due credit even for his most famous poem, Iz-za ostrova na strezhen ("The Carnival is Over"). Set to a popular folk melody, this piece about ataman Stenka Razin is widely considered to be part of Russian musical folklore.

That paragraph has two footnotes, both to articles in Russian, which I can't read at all. But the use of the phrase "set to" suggests that the Wikipedia contributor believed there was a pre-existing folk song or tune that Sadovnikov worked around.

Aren't most folk tunes for dance music? This one is slow and mournful, so I'm assuming it was a song rather than a tune.