BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 09:14 PM

Steve - I'm a great one for forgive and forget..

I don't have much choice really.. seeing I've got such a shit memory...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 07:17 PM

Later, darling, later... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 07:10 PM

What minor misconstrued posts, mate? Anyway, never mind. Tell me lTer...

Funny thing about right-wingers. They bloody hate to be called right-wingers, as with Nige, even when they are, or worse... But lefties love to be called lefties...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 06:39 PM

Steve - maybe you get on one of my tit's occasionally, rarely both at the same time..

Sometime's it's hard to determine if you're having a go at folks on your own side over minor misconstrued points..

Sometime's you're in full on attack mode when a little restraint might be more effective...???

btw.. I enjoyed that post.. it's a good un...

=========================

Nigel - don't be so petty and literal minded..
surely we are adult and intelligent enough not to resort to that level...

Let's try being more sophisticated, rather than opting for confrontation as the default response..

In this context, by right wing I mean the traditional spectrum
from centre spanning further out in a rightwards direction...
I am not summing all together as one simplistic stereotype...

I clearly meant that in a neutral non derogatory manner...

did I say right wing ****s,
no I merely said right wing for convenience as part of the point I was actually making...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:57 PM

By the way, I'm neither immoderate (cheers, pfr) nor extremist (cheers, Nige). I'm a normal bloke who's worked in multiracial/multicultural communities for many years. What dosh I possess is kept in banks that don't bear close examination on ethical grounds. I'm a capitalist whether I like it or not. I was appalled by the sheer dishonesty about the way the referendum was foisted on us, appalled by the campaigns and appalled by the stupidity of the millions who were suckered into voting leave. I did my homework during the campaigns and came to the only remotely possible sane conclusion, from a position of the best level of knowledge (not received wisdom, not prejudice) I could muster, that anything other than a remain vote would be an absolute disaster for the country. Not thinking about meself (no need, as my house is paid for and my pensions are sorted), but slightly more worried about my two kids and my grandchild. Three years later, I'm even more worried. I was right about brexit, wasn't I. I get on pfr's tits even though we are on the same side. Tough shit. But I'm not on your side, Nigel. You are solidly on the wrong side, and you and your ilk worry me because you simply can never see it. That makes you the extremist, Nigel. Extremists like you are blinkered and totally resistant to change, even in the face of the bleedin' obvious, that brexit is a friggin' disaster in the making. But plough on, Nigel. You know you're right. Even when you're disastrously wrong. As you'll see once we plunge out of the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:26 PM

A to too many...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:25 PM

"Once again, a remain supporter (Steve Shaw) states, quite clearly that those who voted 'leave' were either racist, or ignorant.
If I were to state that those who voted remain were all dickheads, I would expect to be chided for disparaging their views (even though they were in the minority). The majority view here ( not representative of the UK people) is being accepted as the majority view of the UK people.
THIS IS NOT TRUE!"

Thing is, Nigel, I do think that most of the people who voted leave did so either out of ignorance or because they are racists. I could, by saying that they were xenophobes rather than racists, to soften the blow, but to be honest there's no difference. The point is that I gave you closely-argued reasons for my opinion. Fine if you want to call remainers dickheads. First, that isn't equivalent. Second, I've yet to read YOUR closely-argued reasons. And one more time, Nigel. You appear to be insinuating that belonging to a majority makes you right. I'd just remind you that a majority, at least to begin with, supported Adolf Hitler. A shaky argument then, Nigel. "Belonging to a majority" accords you no moral high ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 04:44 PM

This does appear to have morphed into a Brexit thread.

Meanwhile do we have a consensus on the actual question?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 04:26 PM

You can't deny the right wing tends to lump all lefties together as one crude stereotypical homogenous group,
Which comment, clearly lumps all the right wing together as one group.

Try for some even-handedness in your comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 02:20 PM

Nigel - we're a diverse bunch who broadly agree, but not on every detail, or method of action..

You can't deny the right wing tends to lump all lefties together as one crude stereotypical homogenous group,
which they then dismiss with the most hostile demeaning language...

I'd still suggest most antagonism and insults emanate from the right,
which could be tested by any serious objective survey of the internet and other media...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 02:08 PM

From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 02:01 PM
Nigel - what do you stand to gain from persisting with divisive arguments...???
Steve does not represent me, or many other remainers...
Why do you not accept that he is an idividual with his own immoderate style of tackling this issue.

I don't assume that Steve Shaw represents the view of all those who oppose Brexit. But many people here seem to agree with his views no matter how extreme they are.
Do you disassociate yourself from the views he puts forward?

I am quite happy to accept that he is an individual, and that his views do not represent those of any larger group. perhaps you need to make that clear to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 02:01 PM

Nigel - what do you stand to gain from persisting with divisive arguments...???

Steve does not represent me, or many other remainers...
Why do you not accept that he is an idividual with his own immoderate style of tackling this issue.
Why do you insist he is the 'voice' of all of us...???

Should I generalise that you are the model for all leavers,
or just one of the nutters on the tory far right...???

Maybe you're usually a reasonable bloke for all I know...???

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:56 PM

Big AL well i suppose Iains to be fair, you could say the same about Brexit.

You misunderstand my point. Security matters by   their very nature are secretive. This is the way it has to be, despite the wittering of the "entitled"left.
As a result government takes actions that may seem extreme, but what is the alternative?
It is no different than signing confidentiality agreements in the commercial world.

Do you think the WW2 British Propaganda slogan: Careless Talk Costs Lives was based on a complete fiction?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:54 PM

Big Al, it is no use hankering after a past which is gone. And would be gone, EU or no EU, globalisation or no globalisation. Its no use being working class if all you want to get out of it is stagnation. My grandfather was a coal miner. In the 1920s the coal mines were closing down in his area. But he didn't sit on his backside moaning that he had been left behind. He crossed the country, looking for different work, and found it. And his children, who were denied a decent education by a combination of poverty and needing to fight in WWII, well they worked their way up into what you might call middle management jobs. But all of them impressed upon myself, my sister, and my cousins, that we could achieve what we wanted to achieve by never turning down an opportunity for education. And sone of our achievements have involved moving countries or even continents. Are we still working class? Of course we are. But we have made successes of our lives in our different ways by working and not moaning. That is the lesson of my grandfather's generation.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:52 PM

Also, this seems to have moved from the "Brexit" thread to the "Shamima Begum" thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:51 PM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 06:11 AM

"We may disagree with the decision many leavers made based on cynical false claims and disinformation,
but accept they did it for what they believed at the time were positive reasons for the benefit of us all..
It's clear many now regret that decision."

So "what they believed at the time" and "now regret that decision" indicates that they were suckered into making a wrong call. They didn't realise what a bloody disaster brexit would inevitably be. Well I did, along with millions of others who embarked on a rapid learning curve during the campaign, the responsible thing to do. On the morning of 24 June 2016 I was in Italy and along with the Brits, Germans, Italians and Danes in the hotel I was bloody devastated. If you are one of the above "regretful" types, you didn't do your homework and then you irresponsibly voted out of ignorance. Let's not forget that these poor wee souls who now regret their decision are dragging us out of the EU in the biggest disaster for the country since WWII. So their ignorance and irresponsibility have got us into this mess. Ignorant is too kind a word. On top of that, over a third of leave voters openly admit to being racist. And that's just the ones who admit it. Ignorance and racism led to the leave victory. Anything else is just indulging stupidity.

Once again, a remain supporter (Steve Shaw) states, quite clearly that those who voted 'leave' were either racist, or ignorant.
If I were to state that those who voted remain were all dickheads, I would expect to be chided for disparaging their views (even though they were in the minority). The majority view here ( not representative of the UK people) is being accepted as the majority view of the UK people.
THIS IS NOT TRUE!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:37 PM

Er, most Labour voters, by a big margin, voted remain.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:35 PM

I was perplexed and had to google why old lefties like Corbyn were anti EU..
I can sort of follow their reasons...???

Whether or not he'd be a good PM and cope with the demands of the job
when it comes to issues like 'Jihadi bride'..

well, I only ever saw him as a surprising and welcome breath of fresh air as leader,
and continue to wonder who he is mentoring to really take over from him...???

I think he's too old, and is starting to look unwell.
We need someone middle aged who can last for as many years as necessary...

[I say that as a bloke of 60, who already reluctantly accepts he is past his prime...]

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:16 PM

"Not for millions of socialist labour voters in constituencies across the land."
THey wouldn't have made the day if it hadn't been for the ones who followed Farage's racist line - go look at how racist incidents shot up immediately after the result was announced
Do you carry around your bucket of sand or do you find one when you need something to bury your head in ?
Brexit was sold on a racist ticket
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 11:27 AM

I wonder who the Brexiteers will blame when we’re out of the EU and things are even worse?

You’ve fallen for it hook, line, and sinker Al - blaming Johnny Foreigner for the mess our own successive governments (and our own business-owners and trade unions) have dropped us in over the years. Which is exactly what they wanted when they started bombarding you with the anti-EU propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 11:19 AM

'Brw=exit (there goes that topic again) was floated on preventing foreigners entering Britain'

Not for millions of socialist labour voters in constituencies across the land. It was more to do with the closure of dozens of employment opportunities due to the inequitable trading terms we have with Europe. The creation of an industrial wasteland. And it wasn't floated - it was bloody obvious from 1974 what was going to happen, and over forty years we've watched the direst predictions proved correct.

You're pretty quick with that rope over the branch yourself when it comes to trying and condemning the motives of your fellow citizens. Still never mind your middle class mates will still be able to get their meatballs at IKEA, and other matters of major concern.

As Bob Dylan said in Desolation Row, The cops don't need you and man! they expect the same. No brownie points to be had, for Kissing Junker's bum

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 10:39 AM

"isn't that the realities of power. "
Apartheid fell, Saddam was taken out and Pinochet was taken into house arrest - none of them recoeved the punismenyt they desrved but because enough people who cared raised their voices, there effect becme muted and those who associated were shamed (I love quoting Thatcher's love affair with Pinochet)
Brw=exit (there goes that topic again) was floated on preventing foreigners entering Britain - this includes the refugees from wars we have been part of and have served as armourer to
Are we really going to stand by silently while the Government adds British Citizens to that growing number of refugees ?
I have no knowledge of this woman, what she did and why she did it, but when politicians start to condemn people to exile without trial - duck - you're next

AS MY OLD MATE JACK ONCE SAID

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 10:24 AM

See what happens when you have opponents banned from BS,
and clamour for the last few to go as well...

That just leaves those of us broadly on the same side
pointlessly arguing amongst ourselves
until we disapear up our own rear ends...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 10:14 AM

i suppose it all comes down to class, and if you trust Mr Corbyn.

Does it 'eck! What has class and JC got to do with having sympathy for a young woman in the dreadful situation of having dropped a complete clanger and paying the harshest price imaginable for it; the loss of 3 children and her own identity. Are you saying that only the middle class or those trusting JC are capable of compassion? What does that make the working class and those opposed to JC? Heartless monsters?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 10:06 AM

Legal Aid should be available to all, based on the individual’s, or group of individuals’, financial circumstances. Otherwise, only the wealthy have access to the legal system. The real problem is that changes in LA rules since 2010 have resulted in an unlevel playing field.

The question shouldn’t be, “Why is Shamima Begum being granted Legal Aid?”

The question should be, “Why weren’t the relatives of the Hillsborough victims, and the Grenfell Tower fire victims, entitled to Legal Aid?

Otherwise, it’s just another case of ‘Whataboutery’. And, no matter how perversely some people view these issues, two ‘wrongs’ still don’t make a ‘right’.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 09:39 AM

i suppose it all comes down to class, and if you trust Mr Corbyn.

my mum paid her taxes, rates, worked over forty years - and when she got cancer there was no money for a stairlift to get upstairs for the bog. and it was at a time i had no money , having been forced to give up work.

And yet , all the most expensive QC's in the country are looking forward to this case - as a high profile. Public money - amiddle class cause celebre and suddenly no problem. Its like what people are saying about the Notre Dame fire. What a pity Grenfell tower wasn't full of old paintings and stained glass instead of people.

let's suppose you are right Jim. Assad is a monster that the US have backed - like they backed Apartheid, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein -for a while.

isn't that the realities of power. sometimes there are very limited options. corrupt south vietnam rather than Stalinist Ho Chi Minh; Saddam Hussein rather than Khomeini: etc.

Assad rather than ISIS. That's the kind of decision Corbyn will have to make if he's PM. Wilson refused to involve us in Vietnam, and the economy paid the price. Blair went along with the Americans and paid the price electorally and in his own party.
I don't think he fancies it. Its easier to fart and parp in opposition like Kinnock did. Thus we get this support for ISIS members at a time of austerity for the rest of the country. The announcement British Army criminals will be brought to justice. Opposition to any form of Brexit that May proposes - when most of his constituencies voted leave.

What does he have to do to get through to you...he's really happy where he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 09:31 AM

Steve - I wasn't making excuses for the middle of the road non racist brexiteers..
..their gullibility dropped us all in the shit..

But I was countering Nigel's ridiculously sweeping false accusation about remainers...

It's people like him constantly stoking the division and conflict..
What they hope to achieve by this at a time when we all need to reunite calmly and sensibly...???

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 06:41 AM

That's true. I knew I was in the "wrong" thread when I posted that, but I was responding to pfr's post in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 06:28 AM

I think some of the recent posts, including mine, following Nigel's mention of leavers 17 Apr 19 - 08:54 PM belong on the brexit thread. Can a kind mod do the honours please?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 06:11 AM

"We may disagree with the decision many leavers made based on cynical false claims and disinformation,
but accept they did it for what they believed at the time were positive reasons for the benefit of us all..
It's clear many now regret that decision."

So "what they believed at the time" and "now regret that decision" indicates that they were suckered into making a wrong call. They didn't realise what a bloody disaster brexit would inevitably be. Well I did, along with millions of others who embarked on a rapid learning curve during the campaign, the responsible thing to do. On the morning of 24 June 2016 I was in Italy and along with the Brits, Germans, Italians and Danes in the hotel I was bloody devastated. If you are one of the above "regretful" types, you didn't do your homework and then you irresponsibly voted out of ignorance. Let's not forget that these poor wee souls who now regret their decision are dragging us out of the EU in the biggest disaster for the country since WWII. So their ignorance and irresponsibility have got us into this mess. Ignorant is too kind a word. On top of that, over a third of leave voters openly admit to being racist. And that's just the ones who admit it. Ignorance and racism led to the leave victory. Anything else is just indulging stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:53 AM

To sum up
If he Government decides it knows better, there is no need to put someone on trial - taht's what I thought - the makings of a fascist state
Maybe Tommy Robinson can step into May's shoes when she is forced out by the extreme right Brexiters - his path is laid out for him and he hsi his supporter here
"ackwater dorp" - a step above "bogtrotter" I suppose
Your trouncings really have got to you
'Nuff of this talking to the children - work to do in the bog
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:30 AM

well i suppose Iains to be fair, you could say the same about Brexit.

The blockage in us leaving are the middle class posse in the houses of parliament.

they would say they are more aware of the facts than we the unwashed unlettered who voted to leave. they know better.

can't have it both ways mate....

don't worry about it. no one gives a shit about what we think anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:23 AM

I think this conversation should be on the brexit thread though, Al.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:22 AM

More evidence that a Government can convict a person of a crime without being arsed to give them a trial because "they know better"
I think that's called fascism

A sensible person would call it common sense. Try reading the legislation in full.

"They know better" would suggest they are in full possession of the facts whereas a an ex-sparky in a backwater dorp knows nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:14 AM

the difference is that the remainers focus on a few bonkers bastards to the extreme right.

And so we should, Al. It is the bonkers bastards to the right that are calling all the shots at the moment. Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Gove and the rest are running the Conservative party. The right wing press are calling for execution of those who want to make sure parliamentary procedure is adhered to. Farage is still pulling the strings of the MSM. What do you expect people to concentrate on?

As to you middle class types bully your way to a second referendum, just who are you referring to? I, for one, have worked for almost 50 years without ever venturing into the middle class world of being a "performer, songwriter and teacher of guitar". How about you? Is arguing vehemently for real democracy and to overturn a very flawed decision bullying? It seems to me that it is the ERG and MSM that are doing all the bullying. To be a bully you need power. I certainly don't have any.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:13 AM

More evidence that a Government can convict a person of a crime without being arsed to give them a trial because "they know better"
I think that's called fascism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:13 AM

More evidence that a Government can convict a person of a crime without being arsed to give them a trial because "they know better"
I think that's called fascism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 04:38 AM

the difference is that the remainers focus on a few bonkers bastards to the extreme right.

in this way they totally sidestep the reasons and problems inherent in EU membership of EU. They are totally in denial, and say all kinds of rubbish - for example the oft repeated lie that British industry was on its knees prior to joining the EEC.

What is really the pain in the balls with Remainers is the daily dollop of abuse and feigned fury that arrives on my facebook page every day.

last week, Mike Harding wrote a post about his Uncle Len, a Leave supporter and total moron. One of Len's sins was failing to understand why the rest of Europe failed to feel any gratitude for Britain's role in WW2. My God! If Uncle Len had a war anything like my parents........

Anyway carry on abusing. I think you will find when eventually you middle class types bully your way to a second referendum, you will reap your reward in public disgust for the way you (as a whole -not just a few mad well publicised fuck-ups) have conducted yourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 03:08 AM

those who seem to act as a pack to shout down anyone who appears to oppose what they think

What pack would that be, Nigel? Yourself and Iains maybe? You could add bobad who usually chips in from the sidelines. You could also include Teribus and Akenaton if they had not been banned for such activities. Stanron would probably support you but at least he does not seem to stoop to abuse or nitpicking.

Leavers don't automatically assume the worst of those in favour of remain.

No, I guess the term remoaners does not mean that those who wish to remain are just moaning. Calling people traitors who need to be shot is just a bit of fun. Telling those who want to remain to fuck off and live in the EU is friendly banter.

What were you saying about a beam? Take a look at your leaders and the press that support you before climbing on that high horse.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 02:57 AM

It comes as no surprise that Nigel and Iains should team up in this magnificent display of inhumanity and establishment arse-licking; I can't say I'm mor than a little disgusted that Al should make up the trio and hide behind his socialism to do so

Commit the crime, take the punishment. Simples!

There would seem to be a presumption here that some know better, and possess more facts than the authorities. I wonder what justifies such arrogance?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 02:46 AM

"The thing is Jim, I think you may be buggering up Corbyn's plans."
If Corbyn puts his own party before the well-being of a young woman forced to live in a refugee camp, he doesn't get my support - I hope that is not the case
"That starts from the false assumption that I read The Guardian."
I assume nothing about you Nigel - I observe your total lack of humanity and the company you choose to keep during these discussions, nothing more
I haven're read the Guardian for twenty years - it's not too easy to come by where I live, if I wanted to
Don't make assumptions about my sources of information - I don't about yours
We are in a situation where the British Government is facing the consequences of allowing a dictator to massacre his people, having done nothing whatever to stop him other than to sell him some of the equipment to do so -
Parliament voted to sit on their hands and watch while those massacres took place place while it was gradually revealed how deeply they weer involved with the Assad regime
Now they are taking revenge on those who did try to stop what was hppening in Syria - by taking way their citizenship and adding to the rapidly growing world-wide refugee crisis
It comes as no surprise that Nigel and Iains should team up in this magnificent display of inhumanity and establishment arse-licking; I can't say I'm mor than a little disgusted that Al should make up the trio and hide behind his socialism to do so
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 09:26 PM

"But remainers are quick to claim that anyone supporting Leave is either ignorant, racist, or protecting their own financial interests. "


No we don't - some [most ?] of us make a point of not doing that
as it's such a crude gereralisation and so obviously wrong to do so,
Doing that can only cause unhelpful conflict.

We may disagree with the decision many leavers made based on cynical false claims and disinformation,
but accept they did it for what they believed at the time were positive reasons for the benefit of us all..
It's clear many now regret that decision.
We are all in this shitship together...

I'd suggest an objective survey of online activity would prove that most of the negative comment,
insults, and sheer lies arise from the worst belligerent bullying brexiteers...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 08:54 PM

Hah. Just as we suspected, Nigel. You are an aficionado of confirmation bias.
I don't know how you can assume that from the fact that I don't read the Guardian. But I do read news from numerous, divergent, sources (NOT including the Daily Mail).

There is a lot of confirmation bias on this site, mainly from those who seem to act as a pack to shout down anyone who appears to oppose what they think is a true understanding.

Leavers don't automatically assume the worst of those in favour of remain. But remainers are quick to claim that anyone supporting Leave is either ignorant, racist, or protecting their own financial interests. That is despite the fact that in doing so they are bracketing more than half of the voting public with those terms.

"First cast out the beam from thine own eye"

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 08:46 PM

It's should be its. Bloody spellchecker cobblers.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 08:07 PM

"That starts from the false assumption that I read The Guardian.
So, No, I don't know what has been printed by that paper. Nor do I particularly want to."

Hah. Just as we suspected, Nigel. You are an aficionado of confirmation bias. I read the Guardian. But I also read the Mail. It's a nose-holding exercise, but I regard the exercise as essential. I suppose it would be pointless to apprise you of the fact that the Guardian, unlike the Mail and it's fellow-travelling right-wing tabloids, fearlessly embraces opinion from the whole range of the political spectrum in its opinion pieces. Do take a look some time.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 06:19 PM

None of which has anything to do with depriving young British citizens of their citezenship/human rights
It appears, to some, that this is fine if you can produce examples of other countries doing the same

However the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill was given Royal Assent in February.
This bill puts a very different slant on the above

The main provisions included in the act are:

1)   a new power to stop, question, search and detain an individual at a port or border area to determine whether they are, or have been, involved in hostile state activity
2)    creating an offence of entering or remaining in an area outside the United Kingdom that has been designated by the Home Secretary if it is necessary for protecting the public from terrorism
3)   updating the offence of obtaining information likely to be useful to a terrorist to cover material that is only viewed or streamed, rather than downloaded to form a permanent record
4)   an increase to the maximum penalty for certain preparatory terrorism offences to 15 years’ imprisonment
5)   extending the offence of inviting support for a proscribed organisation
6) a requirement for terrorist offenders to provide additional information to the police in line with what registered sex offenders must provide

Simply having been in Syria can now be construed as a criminal activity if a UK citizen.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 06:13 PM

The thing is Jim, I think you may be buggering up Corbyn's plans.

Whilst England is lining up to vote for him, and replsce a truly unpopular PM, I get the impression JC is quietly crapping himself at thought of actually having to do anything. So he keeps coming up with all these soundbytes.

Please stop trying to convince people he's serious - otherwise the tories will win again.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 06:13 PM

The thing is Jim, I think you may be buggering up Corbyn's plans.

Whilst England is lining up to vote for him, and replsce a truly unpopular PM, I get the impression JC is quietly crapping himself at thought of actually having to do anything. So he keeps coming up with all these soundbytes.

Please stop trying to convince people he's serious - otherwise the tories will win again.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 04:22 PM

From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 10:04 AM
This should have gone up
AS YOU WELL KNOW
Jim Carroll

That starts from the false assumption that I read The Guardian.
So, No, I don't know what has been printed by that paper. Nor do I particularly want to.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 02:14 PM

"Right, let's remember it is still possible for lefty liberals to objectively criticise aspects of the muslim religion
without being branded islamophobic..."
Of course it is - any unchecked religion with too much power is capable of the most horrific crimes - still reeling from the scandal of Clerical rape, Ireland has now opened anothetr major can of worms over the treatment of single pregnant women and their children - it is revealed that one home buried up to 900 children in unmarked graves without valid registration of their deaths - nobody knows where they are buried and it is suggested others may have been sold to rich Americans
This is to do with the interpretation and misuse of religion rather than the relgion itself
The same is the case with any religion
None of which has anything to do with depriving young British citizens of their citezenship/human rights
It appears, to some, that this is fine if you can produce examples of other countries doing the same
Jim Carroll