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Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling

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ICARUS
LULLABY
MOTH


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ChanteyLass 25 Feb 19 - 09:11 PM
GUEST 24 Feb 19 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 23 Feb 19 - 06:05 PM
Anne Lister 21 Feb 19 - 03:15 PM
Lighter 21 Feb 19 - 03:11 PM
Anne Lister 21 Feb 19 - 06:35 AM
Rapparee 20 Feb 19 - 08:43 PM
Anne Lister 20 Feb 19 - 04:18 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 20 Feb 19 - 03:53 PM
Anne Lister 20 Feb 19 - 11:52 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Feb 19 - 10:49 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Feb 19 - 10:47 AM
Anne Lister 20 Feb 19 - 10:39 AM
Anne Lister 20 Feb 19 - 10:38 AM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 19 Feb 19 - 10:08 AM
Anne Lister 19 Feb 19 - 08:02 AM
GUEST,Howard Jones 19 Feb 19 - 04:02 AM
Donuel 18 Feb 19 - 10:27 PM
Anne Lister 16 Feb 19 - 03:40 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 16 Feb 19 - 01:37 PM
Anne Lister 16 Feb 19 - 12:15 PM
Anne Lister 16 Feb 19 - 12:09 PM
Donuel 16 Feb 19 - 12:08 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Feb 19 - 11:21 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 16 Feb 19 - 11:04 AM
leeneia 16 Feb 19 - 10:51 AM
The Sandman 16 Feb 19 - 02:40 AM
Dave Hanson 16 Feb 19 - 02:19 AM
Anne Lister 15 Feb 19 - 05:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 09:11 PM

I love the song.

Congratulations on your completion of your thesis. That's quite an accomplishment!


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 11:16 AM

Dear Gargoyle
Now you have me entirely baffled. If you'd like to put a specific question to me, or send me a private message, I'd be happy to answer it. But a viva exam in the UK is not a public affair, and my thesis has no publication date until my viva has taken place. Once it's been accepted I'll be happy to tell the world about where it can be found and read, and I'll also be happy to work on a published version for a less academic readership.
However, just to deal with the parts of your question which are easily answered - I'm working with Cardiff University School of Welsh.

Can I suggest that anyone posting to a public forum such as the 'Cat could make an effort to make their questions, or comments, clear and unambiguous? Otherwise, however supportive and interested the correspondent may intend to be, the comments come across as somewhat abrasive. Oh, and my name is always written with a silent "e" at the end - a matter of simple courtesy.


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 23 Feb 19 - 06:05 PM

Ann -

So you may have a truly public defence for your thesis....

DATE
UNIVERSITY
ACADEMIC ADVISOR
department
Thesis Title and publication date

Sincerely,
Gargoyle



O flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Anne Lister
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 03:15 PM

Yes, it's "Jaufre". And I think there was just one (anonymous) author, but probably building on earlier oral sources. The title is mentioned on my website, by the way.


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Lighter
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 03:11 PM

Hmmm. I don't see the title of the Occitan romance that has written of.

Would it be "Jaufre"? Written by either Anonymous, or Anonymous and Anonymous the Second ?


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Anne Lister
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 06:35 AM

Who has these light sabers, anyway? We only have a few odd weapons here that seem to go "pew pew".


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 08:43 PM

I still say light sabers. I am, after all, a descendant of Taulat de Rougemont and Voldemort and Darth Vader and some guy named Mordred.


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Anne Lister
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 04:18 PM

Thank you, Gargoyle, but I've survived and completed it already. Just waiting for the viva now!


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 03:53 PM

This book saved my sanity.

How to Complete and Survive a Doctoral Dissertation
(published 1981)

ISBN-13: 978-0312396060

Sincerely,
Gargoyle
my biggest take-away, NEVER mix bedroom with writing, and research.


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Anne Lister
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 11:52 AM

Thank you, Bonnie!


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 10:49 AM

OK, let's try this (I think you have to include the http thingy):

https://www.annelister.com


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 10:47 AM

I tried just now, and didn't have any luck either :-(


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Anne Lister
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 10:39 AM

Whoops - something went awry with the blue clicky!


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Anne Lister
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 10:38 AM

Just updated my website - some more edits to come, but please have a look and let me know if there are any improvements you would suggest. www.annelister.com


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 10:08 AM

Well done!


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: Anne Lister
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 08:02 AM

Donuel - Terry Jones, of the Python team, has written a couple of more academic books on medieval subjects and presented some tv programmes about the Crusades, so the Monty Python Holy Grail film contained some great nuggets of Arthurian knowledge! However, I'm not concerned, any more than they were, in the "truth" behind a historic Arthur - that's a whole different research topic. I'm fascinated with "my" story, which preserves traces of Arthurian tales which are less well known in northern Europe and which might give a glimpse into what we've lost by way of oral storytelling tradition. I've also learnt a great deal about the circumstances surrounding the creation of this story, and how easily certain facts get ignored, and the viewpoint altered, depending on a scholar's theories.
Thank you, Howard - I hadn't heard of Dr Daisy Black before your comment, but I shall make a point of getting in touch with her now. I have heard about Rachel Rose Reid, who is also telling a medieval story, but I embarked on this project without knowing about either of them.


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Subject: RE: Out of the PhD tunnel: medieval storytelling
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:02 AM

Congratulations Ann. Do you know of Dr Daisy Black's work as an academic mediaevalist ans storyteller?

https://daisyblack.uk/


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet-Medieval Story
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 10:27 PM

I did not know of any manuscripts. I am more familiar with the Monty Python treatment of the tale.
Nothing is truer than truth but it is highly volatile and evaporates leaving only long lasting legendary remains.
I hope you have discovered grains of truth to feed our curiosity.


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: Anne Lister
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 03:40 PM

The harp features prominently on my To Do list, of course ... at the moment, the video which prompted this post was the most active I've been creatively for a few weeks (because you're right about the mug of hot chocolate!). I need to raise the courage to put on a new string for the first time... and we're also trying to organise the books and music in the house to make the music room (and therefore the harp) more accessible. Please email or pm me a way to contact your friend!
I have various ideas around putting the story out there, some including other performers, and Steve would love to have the time, resources and funding to make it into an animation. So also on the To Do list is a brain-storming session for what to do with it first, and who to contact in terms of possible finance and paying gigs. There are also various re-enactment groups who might welcome a 13th century storyteller.
In short, there is a long To Do list, and my brain is still in recovery from the 88,000 words!


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 01:37 PM

> There aren't any songs as such in the story, and I haven't been moved to create any as yet, although there are certainly references to troubadour poetic forms and substance, and there are parts of the story where I can envisage music happening. It isn't entirely clear how it would have been performed, although it was definitely intended for a listening audience...

"Haven't been moved to create any as yet..." !!!!!!! If I'd just birthed a book-length academic thesis, I wouldn't be moved to create anything more ambitious than a giant mug of hot chocolate. But... the muse will soon be whispering and tugging at your sleeve, I've no doubt. And I would LOVE to hear related Anne songs. To that end, a Thought (which gets a capital letter cuz I think it's a brilliant idea...):

What about doing a Marie-de-France-meets-Rodgers-and-Hammerstein thing, and interposing your own ballads or comic songs (or whatever) at key points in the story, which can more or less also stand independently of the larger work? Rather than even attempting to be period-authentic, just do it in modern-verse/melody style, a la "The Nightingale" & "Rosemarie", accompanying yourself on whatever instrument(s)* you feel like. That would tick a bunch of folkie boxes that a strict early-music definition might miss, and probably generate some great cover versions too. The story just seems a natural for incorporating music into.

Anyway, keep us posted via this thread, and maybe get Joe to change it to something alluringly descriptive, e.g. "13th century tale of King Arthur" or some such.

-----
* PS: Pick up your harp, girl! It's a natural for this programme. I have a lovely friend, only down the road from you, who could help with that, or else recommend somebody. I'd do it myself, with a heart and a half as they say here - if only we didn't live on separate islands. All you really need is to get the technique basics for simple song accompaniment (which don't want to be distractingly elaborate anyway), and you could always take it further from there if you wanted to. Yeah, I know... with all that (hahahahahahahaha) spare time weighing you down...


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: Anne Lister
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 12:15 PM

Donuel, I'm not quite clear on your question about King Arthur documents! This tale survives in two complete manuscripts, both of which are in the Bibliothèque Nationale in Paris, and a number of fragments. One of the manuscripts is copiously illustrated, with the kind of drawings I would be capable of producing (in other words, not the intricate and detailed images from, say, the Book of Kells, but all the more fun for that!). I didn't discover the manuscripts and I'm not the first to study them, but I am the first to focus on the story and the telling of the story, and once the thesis has been accepted I'll feel more able to talk about my other discoveries about how it came to be created.


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: Anne Lister
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 12:09 PM

Thank you all for the positive comments!
As to the 13th century tale, yes, Leeneia, I studied it in medieval Occitan, and I'm planning to write a modern English adaptation - soon! There have been earlier English versions, one 19th century one by Alfred Elwes adorned with engravings by Gustave Doré (many of which are exceedingly misleading) and one from the early 1930s by Vernon Ives, an American who used archaic English for his re-telling and clearly intended it for children. There's an academic translation from 1992. But it has been largely disregarded in English, and not much better served in French, while in Spain it stayed popular via chapbooks (which were published up to the early 20th century), was mentioned in "Don Quixote" as one of the stories which impelled the Don on his adventures and even turned up in the Philippines, presumably taken there by the Spanish. Fun as the story itself is (and it is indeed fun, an early Monty Pythonesque take on chivalry) there's also a fascinating set of circumstances around its composition, at least in my opinion, and the thesis might easily have been twice the length if I'd delved into everything that I found interesting. I'm seriously considering writing a historical novel based on the facts.
There aren't any songs as such in the story, and I haven't been moved to create any as yet, although there are certainly references to troubadour poetic forms and substance, and there are parts of the story where I can envisage music happening. It isn't entirely clear how it would have been performed, although it was definitely intended for a listening audience rather than a solitary reader, and I've discovered that it is very unlikely to have been performed all in one piece, as it takes too long even in my modern English re-telling (which misses out some chunks for various reasons).
Yes, I'm in the UK.
And yes, perhaps a mod should change the title of the thread ...


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 12:08 PM

How many King Arthur documents were found?

Finishing something/anything is the key to moving ahead so good on you.

My PHd was nixed in the bud by my advisor. I wanted to be the first to baptize extraterrestrials before Mormons got a hold of them. But alas nun came forward. :^/


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 11:21 AM

That really is lovely, Anne. Thank you for writing, performing, recording and posting it :-D


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 11:04 AM

A well-deserved congratulations on the PhD (which clocks in at 88,000 words, BTW - the length of a novel). A live performance of this 13th-century tale will be sheer magic.

Annie, what do you think about asking a mod to tweak the thread title, to give a clearer idea of what it's about? Some medieval/storytelling fans could miss it otherwise, which would be an awful loss.

Talk soon - B xxxxxxx


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: leeneia
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 10:51 AM

Anne, I'm interested in the 13th Century tale. Did you study it in its native language? What's it about? And good luck with the interrogators.

Are there any songs in the tale? That would be interesting.

I guess you live in the UK, am I right?


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 02:40 AM

Well Done


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Subject: RE: Popping my head above the parapet
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 02:19 AM

Love it Anne,thanks for posting.

Dave H


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Subject: Popping my head above the parapet
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 05:44 PM

Because I've been quiet for a while, this is a brief update for anyone who may be interested. I've been quiet because I've been working on a PhD, about a 13th century tale of King Arthur written in medieval Occitan, and telling this story to audiences in various settings, from academic lectures to small house concerts, taking in festivals and storytelling clubs along the way. The thesis is now submitted and I'm waiting to deal with my interrogators in the viva. In the meantime I've also been working on a new album of songs, some of which are recordings made in 1973. The sad news here is that my long-term friend and ally, and recording engineer, Liv Elliot, was diagnosed in May last year with a brain tumour and died in November, so the whole project has become bitter-sweet. However, various moves are afoot and I'm hoping to get back to the studio very soon to complete the recording.
Partly as a tribute to Liv, and partly because of the very urgent considerations of climate change and the environment, I have put together a video of my song "A call to arms" from my album "Waiting for the Hero", and I hope you enjoy it.
I am now actively looking for performance opportunities for me and my songs, and me and my rather special 13th century story ... please get in touch if you're interested.


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