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BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine

Iains 20 Mar 19 - 06:11 AM
KarenH 20 Mar 19 - 05:04 AM
KarenH 20 Mar 19 - 04:59 AM
KarenH 20 Mar 19 - 04:54 AM
KarenH 20 Mar 19 - 04:48 AM
KarenH 20 Mar 19 - 04:43 AM
Iains 20 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 03:55 AM
robomatic 19 Mar 19 - 11:47 PM
Iains 19 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 19 - 03:35 PM
robomatic 19 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM
Iains 19 Mar 19 - 02:20 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 19 - 01:07 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 19 - 12:47 PM
KarenH 19 Mar 19 - 09:38 AM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 06:25 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 06:02 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 05:18 AM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 04:40 AM
Nigel Parsons 17 Mar 19 - 08:23 PM
robomatic 17 Mar 19 - 04:20 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Mar 19 - 03:43 AM
robomatic 17 Mar 19 - 01:37 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Mar 19 - 01:47 PM
Iains 16 Mar 19 - 12:20 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM
KarenH 16 Mar 19 - 08:14 AM
KarenH 16 Mar 19 - 08:08 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Mar 19 - 07:39 AM
KarenH 16 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM
KarenH 16 Mar 19 - 07:12 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Mar 19 - 06:32 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Mar 19 - 05:44 AM
KarenH 16 Mar 19 - 05:41 AM
KarenH 16 Mar 19 - 05:38 AM
KarenH 16 Mar 19 - 05:37 AM
KarenH 16 Mar 19 - 05:32 AM
Iains 16 Mar 19 - 05:17 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Mar 19 - 04:18 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Mar 19 - 03:59 AM
robomatic 15 Mar 19 - 03:50 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 19 - 09:35 AM
Iains 15 Mar 19 - 07:05 AM
KarenH 15 Mar 19 - 06:00 AM
KarenH 15 Mar 19 - 05:56 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 19 - 04:49 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 06:11 AM

Karen it is very clear he is an embittered old man. He is always bleating about how hard done by his commie father was and this subjection to perpetual whining and brainwashing by his pater accounts for his hatred of all things british(apart from his pension of course!) He is really a sad little man that is best ignored because the majority of his posts are coloured by his tunnel vision of a totally perverted reality. And of course each time this is mentioned a stream of abuse results. Just watch below!


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 05:04 AM

Jim sitting there on his UK pension, earned via training he got in the UK, presumably benefitting from UK National Health agreements with the EU for his health care, and wishing death and destruction on others on the basis of what are plainly nationalist anti-UK and anti 'prod' views.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:59 AM

And I came into this by asserting that if it all kicks off again on the island of Ireland after Brexit then those Irish people who engage in violence have made a personal choice and one for which they cannot 'blame' the potato famine or imperialism. I don't like violence, Jim would, it appears, be cheering it on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:54 AM

Jim is the one going back as far as the Normans, though he prefers to call them British or English, just as he terms many residents of Northern Ireland 'Scots' or, though the mods did tell him off for this, 'prods'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:48 AM

Here's a nice Washington Post article which describes, among other things, US pro Irish-republican ignorance of the politics of Sinn Fein.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1987/03/22/irish-troubles-american-money/593e3941-826e-4719-bc79-8eb528f8ac70/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1287634d022e

I won't bother addressing Jim's recent denials within this thread that he did say what he said what he plainly said earlier in this thread because I think this is just a tactic he uses rather than an honest statement. It is all of a piece with his denials that he ever insults people, which are so blatant that they often occur in the same post as a lot of insults.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:43 AM

Robomatic: your summary of Jim's approach is good but omits his tendency to sling insults about aggressively when he is pressed to be less simplistic and faced with sensible objections. While we are rounding out history, let's not forget that a lot of violent terrorism on the island of Ireland was funded by 'yanks'. Given their way over the years, the Irish would arguably now be subject to some Catholic European power, with the Spanish and the French being the two contenders or to the US "empire".


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM

they did away with 'special schools in Britain a long time ago.

A crying shame you might have had some benefit from remedial schooling.
Your posts may then have actually had some vestigial contact with reality. Instead you post nonsense and get upset when treated like a fool!


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM

GOOD SUMMING UP OF "LITTLE ENGLAND" HERE
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 03:55 AM

Sorry Robo
You appear not to understand the situation Ireland is in at present - not past battles, but a chance that the 1970s will kick off all over again if the border becomes visible
It's not just a case of opening old wounds but the hardship that is likely to cause on both sides of the border, and the effect that is likely to have on the Good Friday Agreement
Irish people tend to get on - pretty well with everybody, but certainly with each other
Britain seems set fair to bung a viciously sectarian party another lump of the taxpayers money in order to make the unacceptable possible and is blaming Ireland for the mess they have got themselves in, which isn't going to do too well for the natural friendship between ordinary people here or in Britain - scapegoatism and divide and rule ate two of the devices that have let to us being led by morons for far too long
When a couple of flag-waggers start dragging up events that go back as far as the Normans to revive ancient conflicts, I feel the need to respond - we've just seen fifty good reasons why such national and cultural hatred need to be nipped in the bud - they've just started to bury the results   
If I repeat myself (guilty on that one) I do so because I believe that's what you do with children who refuse to learn
Another repetition
I'm British born, my parents were British born - we are a English born family, yet, because I have chosen to live in Ireland over the last twenty years one of these morons refers to me as a "bogtrotter" while the other refers tot me as (presumably an Irish) "Nationalist"
I don't know how to deal with such people other than to repeat things they seem unable to grasp - they did away with 'special schools in Britain a long time ago
Anyway, when people get as nasty as they do, it gives a sort of perverted pleasure to allow them to humiliate themselves
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 11:47 PM

Jim:

At least you are frank in your emotional response. I never doubted that you are in earnest, but you are like that cat Mark Twain refers to, that jumped onto a hot stove and got burned. It never jumped onto a hot stove again. Nor a cold one.

As for "little Englanders" I believe someone maybe earlier in this thread went into detail about the major shift in meaning of this term from the past century to the present. There is a somewhat clever show called, and I'm only going by memory here, "An Idiot Abroad". The guy behind the show is Ricky Gervais, who gets entirely too much pleasure out of his buddy's discomfort. His buddy is the 'Little Englander'. How all this applies to the current version of English Irish relations is a bit beyond me. I used to live in the Boston (USA) area, which has a considerable Irish ambience and considerable English history, although we did not normally get contentious along those lines, as being America, we have many ethnic fault lines to enjoy. But I recall some really good public broadcasting shows on Irish history which went into detail about the many incidents on the rocky road to Irish Independence. There were several secret societies, then there were some open parties, along the way there were Protestants such as Charles Stewart Parnell who did their best, in his case being foiled by a scandal, and of course Michael Collins, who was shot by his fellow Irish Catholics.


As for the English, if you're making the point that they were bloody colonizers, hey, we (Yanks) were started as colonies. We had formal wars with the English more than once. Twice, I think. They are still, after all is said and done, Mom. Your mileage may vary. Sláinte chugat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM

A reasoned response


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 03:35 PM

NINE OUT OF TEN
BRITAIN's HISTORTY OF PEACE AND FRIENDSHIP WITH ITS FELLOW MEN
Worth noting that every Irish conflict since the 12th century has been in relation to Ireland gaining independence over Britain, while virtually all British conflicts have been about gain and dominance of others

Sorry lads, I had no intention of engaging in discussion with with the gruesome twosome, but, when they start moving in packs it really is time to call in pest control

Robo
I've really had a bellyful of Little Englanders trying to revisit their Glorious Imperial past at the expense of their former victims
My family suffered British rule more or less in silence - I'm ***** if I'm going to if they decide to take to the streets again
Sorry
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM

Jim:

It's not that you're totally wrong about your statements and logic, it's that you seize upon your chosen subset of beliefs and then repeat yourself ad infinitum and show no adaptibility to the complexities of the real history. Irish/ British history is long and involved, and Irish Republicanism is likewise. Likewise the influence/dominance of the Irish Catholic church for both good and ill. You're like that as well in Jewish/ Israeli issues as you've also shown in this venue. And any arguments that pass outside of your chosen context you simply ignore. And then there's this weird tolerance of Stalinism that lies beneath the surface and informs your thoughts even when you do not bring that out explicitly. And when folks get tired of your restatements of your prejudices you declare victory.

So, hey, congrats!


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 02:20 PM

Empire Loyalists ???????

Oh Dear! Too much star trek. The laddie is stuck in a time warp.

the people got on before the division of Ireland ???????

Arrant nonsense! Wot's all this below? A list of tea parties?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Ireland


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 01:07 PM

Karen - borrowing from your own book of rules - it really is time you Empire Loyalists came to terms with the fact that Britannia no longer rules the waves and the world really doesn't need its guidance any more
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 12:47 PM

"Jim's depressingly nationalistic "
I fear nationalism nearly as much as I fear fascism
Where have I ever discussed where people come from and who they are ?
I have said over and over again that it is thepolitics that were installed into the six counties - the people got on before the division of Ireland and they continue to do so
Your hit and run postings coupled with your refusal to respond is getting very boring Karen - it's downright cowardly now
Please stop this -
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 09:38 AM

It is indeed ironic that the Scots were originally from Dal Riata, so on the basis of Jim's depressingly nationalistic ideas and arguments about who people 'really are' they would count as Irish.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM

The Iriny) of all of this of course is that a large number of those in the Northern Counties (anround a third are Ulster Soots - from a country equally historically dominate(sp) and persecuted by the British establishment

Of course Ireland was subjugated in 1169 whereas Scotland was largely independent until the act of union of 1707 and the Scottish monarchy actually ruled England for a while until the end of the reign of Queen Anne.

It is interesting that with the victory of William (a staunch Protestant) at the battle of the Boyne, the Pope of the day supported the Protestant King William of Orange against the Catholic King James II.
It is said that a Mass of deliverance was celebrated in Rome after King William's victory and bells were ordered to be rung and the loca ldrubbing is what is remembered not the major issue.

The battle was fought over continental issues not parochial.although they superficially took precedence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:25 AM

The Iriny of all of this of course is that a large number of those in the Northern Counties (anround a third) are Ulster Soots - from a country equally historically dominate and persecuted by the British establishment
Divide and rule at its best
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:02 AM

By the way - the secret oa ll this lies in the chosen names
Loyalist = loyalty to Britain - a foreign power
Republican = loyalty to Ireland - the Mother country
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 05:18 AM

"And was this because of expected violence by the British/English? "
It was down to the fact that the British Empire created a sectarian state in Ireland which instigated aggressive sectarian marches to display the superiority of those they left in charge
It iolence surrounding Orange maches have never had anything to doi with th difference in religions - if they had, this violence would be preent all the year round rather than on one day of the year
Outside of politics, Catholics and Protestants get on quite well together - this is a historical fact - the war has always been about British control of Ireland - religion is an excuse
It was a common occurrence during the period when it was forbidden for Catholics to purchase land, that their Protestant neighbours did so on their behalf
Britain's oldest trick was to divide those they wished top control
As far as Liverpool is concerned - the large Irish population reflected what was happening back home - triumphalism and all
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 04:40 AM

Poverty and job competition?
https://livrepository.liverpool.ac.uk/2010280/3/RobertsKei_April2015_2010280.pdf

Discrimination occurred in the US.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-york-times-finds-no-irish-need-apply-in-classified-ads-1.2345597

Another rather simplistic view. Canada and Discrimination.

https://schoolworkhelper.net/irish-famine-immigration-1840/


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 08:23 PM

I served my apprenticeship on the Liverpool docks - for almost the entire year the area was a community - come 'The Glorious Twelfth', shops were boarded up the streets became a no-go area - the following day, back to normal
And was this because of expected violence by the British/English? Or because of expected violence by some part of the Irish contingency of Liverpool?


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 04:20 PM

I imagine a 'hard' Irish-British border as something like this


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 03:43 AM

"No one forgets where the hatchet is buried."
It was never really buried - annual triumphal displays of superiority and aggression have made sure of that
One of the great features of these displays has been the flying of The Union Jack - a reminder of who is still in charge up there
This was never Irish v Irish, nor really was it altogether religious - they were politically based and manipulated
I served my apprenticeship on the Liverpool docks - for almost the entire year the area was a community - come 'The Glorious Twelfth', shops were boarded up the streets became a no-go area - the following day, back to normal
I assume things have now greatly improved now, as they were beginning to in the North of Ireland
Now that is being threatened - politics again
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 01:37 AM

I think the current nature of the inheritance of the bitter times is the uncertain economic future we are entering thanks to the uncontrolled BREXIT we are heading for. Should the need come for a 'hard border', old demons are feared to arise and with the prospect of humans dressed in uniforms and border stops and inspections and waiting lines of tourists, commuters and goods, there will be a temptation for those with old grievances to once more set match to combustible or worse.


No one forgets where the hatchet is buried.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 01:47 PM

DETAILS HERE
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 12:20 PM

Oh Dear! he is not very good at history is he? More once "upon a time"
rubbish. If everyone else had his distorted totally bigoted view od events the violence would be ongoing. Luckily only a very small minority of only one hold such divisive views.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM

THe "Peace Lines" in your link are thaose that have become necessary since Britain forcibly partitioned Ireland and created a sectarian state
They were put in place in 1969 when a Civil Rights march demanding equal rights with the two thirds majority which had been created by artificially dividing Ireland into two separate states

In essence, the warring factions were not Irish versus Irish but Irish Catholics fighting Britons
You might like to bear this fact in mind - originally the intention was to make the whole of Ulster a State - them someone did the math and realised that this would not create the majority Britain needed, so the knocked off three of the Ulster Counties - Ireland was deliberately divided into a sectarian dominated State
It was the dominant sectarian Loyalists who fired the first shots in The Troubles, just as it was the same people who threw te stones and turned peaceful protests into a murderous bloody war
The Irish have never been at war with The Irish - Britain has always been regarded as the oppressor
I suggest you read what you put up - the information is all there
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 08:14 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 08:08 AM

Threesome? Jim seems to do it all by himself. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 07:39 AM

If you regard discussion as a "strategy" why bother taking part in a discussion forum ?
The only thing you are doing here is demonstrating how British and its hatred of Ireland and the Irish have caused so much bloodshed down the centuries
Your attitude is not only racist, it is now becoming downright offensive
You have found yourself a very apt bedfellow
TRY AGAIN
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM

This 'why don't you respond' is one of Jim's less interesting strategies and for me it proves nothing, especially when the person has responded. Jim's use of it proves .. oh I cannot be bothered to descend to that level.

I will just say that of one thing I am certain, the Irish are not a 'race'. As it happens I believe that 'race' is a social construct not a biological fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 07:12 AM

Of course, and this point is linked to Iains' point that violence comes from more than one camp, if or when Northern Ireland unites with the Irish Republic, Great Britain can expect an influx of immigrants/refugees from the former Northern Ireland. Not expressing a view in favour of or against, but it seems inevitable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 06:32 AM

The oly hatred here is your and Iains
Your racist stereotyping if the Irish as a people who need Britain from keeping them for killing each other - Iains constantly referring to people to people who live in Ireland as "bog-dwellers"
In taking sides with Iains you are part of a minority of three - the only other person to support Iains here is the hate-filled troll, Bobad
Enjoy your threesome
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:44 AM

Why won't you respond to what has been said Karen ?
Your refusal to do say is as loud as any answer
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:41 AM

Well, Jim, the hatreds will never die down when there are people like you to keep them alive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:38 AM

Not sure why Jim uses the word 'succumbed'. Odd usage in that context.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:37 AM

I don't feel entirely comfortable in agreeing to what Iains says, because I disagree with him so often, but he is of course right in pointing out that the violence came from both protestant and catholic communities.

As Jim himself reminded us, it was to protect the catholic community in northern ireland from violence on the part of some in the protestant community that the army was sent in prior to the outbread of the big troubles in the 20th century.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:32 AM

Jim provides such good material when you feel like a laugh to cheer you up. Here's the latest gem:

"Catholics and Protestants outside politics have always got on - their religion dictates that they do."


Where do you start unpicking nonsense like this?


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:17 AM

Very true, and they will never be a thing of the past until the border is removed - I'm not a nationalist in any shapeor form, but even I know that, it's simply common sense

Only common sense if both sides agree to it,otherwise it is stupidity.
The border is between two different countries. Those flags and drums paraded each year in the north are not to say Hi-de-Hi to the Pope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 04:18 AM

"The "Troubles" are NOT ancient history, "
Very true, and they will never be a thing of the past until the border is removed - I'm not a nationalist in any shapeor form, but even I know that, it's simply common sense
Catholics and Protestants outside politics have always got on - their religion dictates that they do
The problem has always been when politicians use such differences to divide and rule
The British Government has just succumbed to trying the perpetrators of The Bloody Sunday Massacre long after previous Government have declared it a crime and have apologised
Their way out of the problem has ben to choose a scapegoat
The families of the victims are obviously not happy,but they have shown far more dignity and tolerance than have the British establishment ever have
It remains to be seen what will happen now
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 03:59 AM

Interesting turn of events with the flags robomatic. Thanks for the links. A snippet from the first one, "Should further atrocities be perpetrated on Israelis in the coming days and weeks", reminded me of something posted on another thread recently.

Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty

Attributed to Joseph Goebbals. Looks like the side most affected by his party are now using the same tactics :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 03:50 PM

The "Troubles" are NOT ancient history, as anyone aware of the extremes AND the complexities can readily attest. To imagine' that one knows what all others' think (bogtrotters) is to be oneself entrapped in a web of one's own prejudices (The pointing finger and the other four pointing back kind-of-thing).

An interesting thing going on recently that no one has mentioned is the use of the
Palestinian and the Israeli flag by Catholic and Protestant partisans going on right now. I don't know when this started, but it is relatively fresh because it wasn't going on when I was in Eire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 09:35 AM

"Irish people have demanded to hear songs about killing Englishmen."
Just as our folk clubs have been presenting songs about killing the French, Germans..... and jsut about everybody else going back centuries
on;tr be silly Karen - wars always produce songs
Did you know that that after some of the sorties in Ireland (where British soldiers conspired with sectarian terrorist groups) the soldiers took trophies from the events and made up songs, hung them on the wall of the NAFFIs and made up about their adventures
An archivist friend went to The North to purchase examples of sone of the songs being made - one of the prizes in his collection was a Loyalist cassette enitled 'The Pope's a Darkie'
Grow up please Karen there are no good sides in war - only winners, losers and the dead
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 07:05 AM

Always handy to those who wish to depict the Irish as backward "bogtrotters" Bonnie

Making the usual mistake of a curmugeon. Totally misunderstand what was said and fire off the hip with a totally unrelated response concerning you bandwagon of the moment(nothing new there!)

Despite all the changes in recent decades in many places Protestants hold the better farms and the Anglo Irish aristocracy still retain the sporting rights over tracts of land subsequently sold as freehold or held as commonage.

" The vast estates owned by aristocratic landlords were mostly broken up as a result of the
land acts , which allowed tenants to buy their land, but some families have maintained huge holdings."
As an example:The wealthiest scion of the brewing family, Ned Guinness, the Earl of Iveagh, has concentrated on his interests in England recently.He owns the 22,000-acre Elveden estate in Suffolk, making him one of the largest land owners in the UK. It is also a working estate and the Earl is reckoned to grow about 10pc of all the onions eaten in the UK.After selling Farmleigh to the State for €29m, the family retained a 700-acre cattle farm at Kilrue, Mulhuddart, Co Dublin"
Peregrine Andrew Mornay Cavendish, the 12th Duke of Devonshire, owns an 8,000 acre estate in the south-east, based around Lismore Castle in Co Waterford. The family also owns Careysville House on 200 acres in Co Cork and include a 20-mile stretch of the River Blackwater with valuable fishing rights. The estate may be vast by Irish standards, but it is a mere cabbage patch compared to his English holdings of 70,000 acres, which are mainly in Yorkshire and Derbyshire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 06:00 AM

Not to mention the recent parcel bombs in London and Glasgow for which a group claiming to be the new IRA claimed responsibility. These people chose to behave in this way, and I for one do not think the potato famine justifies, excuses or even explains it. They chose it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 05:56 AM

Funny because I live in the UK and have walked out of places where Irish people have demanded to hear songs about killing Englishmen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM

"Football is the new religion!"
FIFA abuse - the mind boggles
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 04:49 AM

I spent a lovely couple of weeks in and around Listowel some years back. We attended a Sean McCarthy memorial event in his home village of Finuge where I met his widow. At the event there were a few Irish Republican songs, stories and jokes about the British but I never felt threatened at all. In a pub in Listowel where I, as a Mancunian, bumped into the Listowel branch of the Chelsea supporters club when Chelsea had just lost to Manchester United, I had to tell some lads at the bar I was from Bolton :-)

Football is the new religion!


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Mudcat time: 20 March 7:22 AM EDT

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