BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 04:10 AM

Middle Ages
That was a some time before Henry burned Catholics tio enable hime getting his leg over, wasn't it
The world's grown up since then
You continue to insult Karen - and include the Irish people in your doind so
I'm happyy that I have insulted no-one here, just responded to bad behaviour
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM

I'm rather surprised and disappointed at your response Karen.

In my post addressed to you I clearly stated "I don't know your particular circumstance" that is I don't know how much or little you know of Irish history. There is no insult in there it is statement of fact. Your response is totally out of order.

Secondly with reference to "the way Irish history is taught in England in my experience is somewhat limited if not to say biased or even bigoted."

I clearly stated "in my experience" again your response is heavy handed to say the least.

And for the record I too am opposed "to car bombings, knee-capping, protection rackets, tarring and feathering, and sectarian violence"

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 05:20 AM

I'm happyy that I have insulted no-one here, just responded to bad behaviour


So you do think thinly veiled accusations of paedophilia(quote Jim someone you guard your children against) are quite permissible to hurl about with no justification. You really are a sick old man are you not?

I would feel a lot happier if the mods sorted this issue once and for all.
Your non action lends tacit support to his slanderous statements.

If you are going to give me a public warning why so coy in this case?

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 08:13 AM

If you are going to give me a public warning why so coy in this case?

Bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 10:33 AM

I just finished "Black Potatoes" by Susan Campbell Bartoletti. It's aimed at middle schoolers and above but it tries to cover the bases in simple terms and concentrates on the events of the period. It 'paints' a base layer for further knowledge of the subject. Also reproduces periodical engravings of the events as depicted in English and Irish and American magazines. Many of them haunting.

Just beginning a more recent book that I heard reviewed on NPR: "Say Nothing" by Patrick Radden Keefe.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 11:25 AM

"So you do think thinly veiled accusations of paedophilia"
You can repeat this as often as you wish - it wasn't aimed d at you I've never sunk to your level of abuse, nor has anybody else
If the mods intended to sort anything out you'd have gone when I requested them to remove you
You have recently been warned about your continuing abusiveness - nobody else has
Bobad has now turned his bile onto the mods
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Mar 19 - 11:34 AM

My posting
"I think the Hansard underlines your point perfectly David, masked fetishistic criminal entry Staines totally distorted Labour's position by leaving out what actually was said - that the Government position was a penny-pinching measure to give the appearance that something ws being done when they were actually playing to the gallery   
The fact that that it is now five years since this affair was discussed and the same Tory Government has now been forced to take emergency measures to combat steadily rising knife crime is a spot-on indication that the bill was little more than a sop in he first place
Wonder how many deaths have occurred since then and how many more there would have been if the Tories hadn't needed something to show that they weren't the incompetent clowns Brexit has exposed them as being ?
These people are beyond belief"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 04:49 AM

Raggytash, I deliberately referred to an 'insulting implication', and am happy with this. I was assuming that you took me to be 'English' and that you supposed I had learned about Ireland via the English education which, in my view, you misrepresented, albeit saying that you did this on the basis of 'limited experience'.

As it happens, I have attended English educational sessions in which it was stated that the Liffy in the times of James Joyce was dirty because it was full of English shit. Make what you like of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 04:58 AM

But at least somebody has finally joined me in deploring at least some violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 05:00 AM

Violence which, however angry it might make Jim to say it, has been a marked feature of Irish history for a very long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 05:15 AM

"So you do think thinly veiled accusations of paedophilia"
You can repeat this as often as you wish - it wasn't aimed d at you

A very belated, grudging clarification, though not an apology. So you do not deny the allegation against Mr Paul Staines?

Let us hope for your sake he does not use the Irish Defamation act of 2009.
The tort of defamation involves publication of a “defamatory statement” – defined as “a statement that tends to injure a person’s reputation in the eyes of reasonable members of society”.
For defamatory statements published via the internet, the cause of action accrues on the date that the statement is “first capable of being viewed or listened to through that medium”.

As I understand the US law the website is protected under freedom of speech. The same is not true of a poster emanating from Ireland, even more so as Mr Staines is also resident of Ireland.

Perhaps you should make a very clear apology lest he takes umbrage.
You have been warned about this before and simply said "bring it on."
Pride comes before a fall!

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 06:53 AM

"So you do not deny the allegation against Mr Paul Staines?"
You said it was about you
Anyone who dresses up desreves to be suspected of being a perve to some degree - ot sure where those who support his pervy behaviour stand in all this?
They are the best judges of that
"But at least somebody has finally joined me in deploring at least some violence."
Most decent human being deplore violence - some take the trouble to find out the cause of it without condemning an entire nation out of hand
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 08:47 AM

"Violence which, however angry it might make Jim to say it, has been a marked feature of Irish history for a very long time."
Ireland has been ruled by outsiders for 8 centuries and is now just about ending having been 'temporarily' partitioned ]#
Irish land was robbed to make room for settlers; they were forcibly moved onto land where “There isn’t a tree to hang a man, water to drown a man nor soil to bury a man”, they were massacred by Cromwell's Troops at Drogheda and elsewhere, forbidden to own land, vote, educate their children and speak their own language
Protests turning into reballions aimed at Independence from Britain were put down brutally for centuries - in the earlier ones the standard punishment waqs to be half hanged, taken down while still living and have the entrails burned while the victims witnessed their own disembowelment

In the mid 19th century, a natural disaster, at best grossly mismanaged but probably deliberately exacerbated, let to one million deaths and as many forced deportations despite the fact that there was enough food to feed four times the number concerned
The failure to pay rents caused by the conditions led to starving peasants being driven from their homes and left to die on the sides of the road while the houses they had been evicted from were destroyed top prevent their returning   
In 1916 a rebellion by a handful for rebels was put down by virtually destroying the center of Dublin, the leaders were executed without trial and without legal representation or the right to speak on their own behalf a display of brutality that eventually brought the richest Empire in the World crashing out of existence
Despite British laws to the contrary, the proceedings of those executions remain a closely guarded secret
This brutality led to turning what was an extremely eccentric unpopular minority event into a five year widely supported war of independence
During this war, British troops marched into the middle of a football match and shot deliberately fired into the crows, killing fourteen spectators, including children, and wounding sixty others Britain responded to their being forced to grant a degree of independence, by annexing six counties and creating a sectarian -led state were to be a Catholic was to be inferior and where Unionist led bloodletting were a regular event

In the 1960s the demands for civil rights and equality were officially directed into stone-throwing mobs, and ten protesters demanding the right to be treated as political prisoners were allowed to starve to death than grant them their basic human right.
The second Bloody Sunday Massacre saw the shooting down of an unarmed demonstrators in Derry leaving fourteen dead and as many again wounded
The British secretary for Northern Ireland has just brought herself to the point of resignation fro saying this was not murder

Now - which of these things never happened Karen ?
If they did, it makes British violence in Ireland a plip on the violence Richter Scale compared to any in-fighting that may have talken place among the Irish People
If you can't be bothered to answer, perhaps your hand can
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 08:54 AM

"Blip on the violence Richter Scale compared to any in-fighting that may have taken place among the Irish People"
I meant the opposite of course, but I'm sure this mistake will give those concerned an excuse not to respond to what I have written - seems par for the course with some people
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 08:54 AM

"Blip on the violence Richter Scale compared to any in-fighting that may have taken place among the Irish People"
I meant the opposite of course, but I'm sure this mistake will give those concerned an excuse not to respond to what I have written - seems par for the course with some people
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 05:04 AM

Jim Carroll
Talk to the hand or to somebody who merits your persistent insults.
I think less of you the more of this bile you spout.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 05:47 AM

Dum de dum de dum de dum!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 06:20 AM

"Dum de dum de dum de dum"
We already knew what you were without your telling us Bozo
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 06:38 AM

Well we all know that troublemakers should be dealt with - but only if they are not Irish toublemakers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:14 AM

toublemakers - must be Irish spelling!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Faminetouble
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:51 AM

Bonzo, do you have anything to actually contribute to this thread?

Your posts to date have been irrelevant to say the least.

For example:

"Dum de dum de dum de dum!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Well we all know that troublemakers should be dealt with - but only if they are not Irish toublemakers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

and

"toublemakers - must be Irish spelling!!!"

If you want to read up on Irish history and the famine in particular I could recommend numerous books.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Mossback
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:41 AM

Violence ... has been a marked feature of Irish history for a very long time.

Not quite- rather Violence has been a marked feature of HUMAN history since the beginning of time.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 05:51 PM

Jim:

If only you looked upon Jewish history as forthrightly as you looked upon Irish history.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:57 PM

"If only you looked upon Jewish history as forthrightly as you looked upon Irish history."
Please don't start this again -
My grandmother was arrested for hitting Mosely with a Stone at a Liverpool Rally
My Father went to Spain when the family's Jewish neigbours described what was happening in Germany
His youngest Brother was one of the soldiers who opened up one of the Death Camps in Germany - as a regular soldier, later he was one of those who sailed out of Palestine to the sound of hand grenades being thrown into occupied homes to make room for the new Jewish State   
My family supported the Jewish State from the early days and I continue to do so in principle
I broke up with a girlfriend, I rowed with her holocaust survivor mother who referred to the State of Israel as "a bunch of fascists"
Please don't lecture me about Israeli history - I suggest you read Einstein's and his fellow intellectual's 1949 letter to the N.Y. Times if you want my opinion on what's happened to Israel and the antisemitic ethnic and crooked regime that is running it in the name of the Jewish People (antisemitic by definition)
You want to discuss Israel with me, open a thread, you want to accuse me of antisemitism - take up my offer, find me a single instance where I have ever denigrated the Jewish People and I will make a generous donation to any named charity - that offer is now about four years old and nobody has ever attempted to
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Mossback
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:45 PM

Ooops! So much for the rights of Arabs.

Jerusalem (AP)

Netanyahu on Sunday addressed “slightly confused people” after an Israeli celebrity defended the rights of Israel’s Arab population.

“When the hell will someone in this government tell the public that Israel is a country of all its citizens,” Sela wrote on Instagram.

Netanyahu responded: Israel “is the national state, not of all its citizens, but only of the Jewish people.”

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 08:52 AM

" Israel “is the national state, not of all its citizens, but only of the Jewish people."
That's telling 'em what's what bigtime
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:09 AM

" Israel “is the national state, not of all its citizens, but only of the Jewish people."


So the remaining 25% are now stateless? Don't think that's going to fly in the face of international opinion. Does he want to become a pariah?

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 11:01 AM

While morons keep dancing to his tune by claiming that criticism of Israel is Antisemitic, Nessie doesn't care what people think
People have fogotten that after the establishment of Israel, the father of Israel, David Ben Gurion, made this admission:

“If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”

He had the good grace to add that the people the land was stolen from should be allowed to share it.
That has long flown out of the window and many of Ben Gurion's manuscripts are kept away from the rude gaze of the public, even his devoted followers
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: bobad
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:55 PM

Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people just as France is the nation-state of the French people, Germany of the German people etc, that is an indisputable fact, that was the purpose of its creation. But, of course, that does not exclude others from living in those states with equal rights. That's the way it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 02:17 PM

You missed my point entirely JC, either by design or due to your habit of harangue. And I wasn't trying to derail the thread but to put you in context. Which you can't seem to understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 02:22 PM

Sorry if I did - youu appeared to be criticising my take on Israel - if I was mistaken I apologise
I don't harangue - I argue because I care - very different
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Mossback
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:52 PM

Finally!! A Mensch!!!

Israel’s president has hit back at Benjamin Netanyahu after the prime minister said in reference to the country’s Arab minority that Israel was “not a state for all its citizens”.

Israel’s president, Reuven Rivlin, criticised what he said were recent “entirely unacceptable remarks about the Arab citizens of Israel”.

Netanyahu’s comments referenced a “nation state” law passed last year declaring that only Jews have the right of self-determination in the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:56 PM

"I don't harangue". Hmm.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:51 PM

"Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people just as France is the nation-state of the French people, Germany of the German people etc, that is an indisputable fact, that was the purpose of its creation. But, of course, that does not exclude others from living in those states with equal rights. That's the way it is."

France is the nation state of the French people, foreign nationals of other countries who have settled there, Catholics, Protestants, atheists, Muslims, Jews, black, yellow, white. Germany is the nation state of the German people, foreign nationals who have settled there, Catholics, Protestants, atheists, Muslims, Jews, black, yellow, white. Indisputable facts. According to the hallowed leader of the Israeli regime, Israel is the nation state of Jews only, not the nation state of the fifth of the population who are not Jews.

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 01:32 AM

This piece on the Yemen famine may help to make the matter of famine and politics clearer.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:51 AM

Bobad.

French is a nationality
German is a nationality
Jewish is a religion

There is no comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 04:39 AM

"I don't harangue". Hmm.
I don't troll either Karen
If you have something ot say, please say it

"Netanyahu’s "
I think/hope Netanyahu’s days might be numbered - let's hope he is replaced by someone of less right-wing, more humanitarian leanings who are not prepared tyo blame the Jewish people for the crimes being committed by the present regime
INTERESTING DISCUSSION HERE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 04:39 AM

"I don't harangue". Hmm.
I don't troll either Karen
If you have something ot say, please say it

"Netanyahu’s "
I think/hope Netanyahu’s days might be numbered - let's hope he is replaced by someone of less right-wing, more humanitarian leanings who are not prepared tyo blame the Jewish people for the crimes being committed by the present regime
INTERESTING DISCUSSION HERE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: KarenH
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 06:34 AM

"If you have something ot say, please say it"

Obviously you got the message, and I don't feel inclined to repeat it.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: bobad
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM

French is a nationality
German is a nationality
Jewish is a religion

From Wikipedia

"Jewish identity is also commonly defined through ethnicity. Opinion polls have suggested that the majority of Jews see being Jewish as predominantly a matter of ancestry and culture, rather than religion"

I am inclined to accept the opinion of Jewish people on this question rather than that of a non Jew pontificating on social media.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 07:33 AM

"Obviously you got the message, and I don't feel inclined to repeat it."
The message I got is that you prefer to abuse from a distance rather than discus the voluminous facts that you have been presented with
Your choice of course Karen - can't say I'm not disappointed
I may have responded sharply to what I believe to be unfair racist stereotyping, but I have never set out to insult you personally, as you have me
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 08:22 AM

You don't get, it, do you. In this country the playing field is set level by the constitution. There are no second-class categories of citizenship. Netanyahu has affirmed that for a fifth or more of his population.

My day-to-day money is in the good old TSB. I have savings in Goldman Sachs (Jewish) and I'm thinking of putting some in Al Rayan Bank (excellent ethics, great rates and Sharia-compliant - I care not a jot).

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM

By the way, anyone else spot this nifty bit of racism?

"... that of a non Jew pontificating on social media."

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:30 AM

""... that of a non Jew pontificating on social media.""
At least he's not blaming the Jews for Israeli war crimes this time
Climbing into bed with RACIST GROUPS has become part of the 'defend Israel at all costs' campaign
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Mossback
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 10:32 AM

Netanyahu is right: Israel is a nation with no interest in equality

... as a non-Jew in Israel, I cannot buy property in the vast majority of the country, and I can be barred by an admissions committee from living in a small, community town if I am not deemed “socially or culturally suitable”. I am unable to study Palestinian history at a state school because it is not taught, and I could put a theatre at risk of losing state funding if I promote a play describing Israel’s independence as a Nakba, or catastrophe, for the Palestinian people. If I wished to marry a Palestinian from the occupied territories, I could not bestow residency or citizenship on her so she could live with me and raise a family inside Israel; any Jew in the world, however, can fly into Ben Gurion airport and become a citizen.

In many ways, the nation-state law changes little for Palestinian citizens of the state, as the legal infrastructure for their inferior status has always been in place. And yet, by anchoring Jewish supremacy as a constitutional rule, the law also changes everything: now, Israeli courts and state bodies are obligated to carry out racial discrimination.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/13/netanyahu-israel-palestinian

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 10:46 AM

That's an excellent article (I read it a few minutes ago during the Mudcat shutdown) which gives the absolute lie to anyone blissfully thinking that Israel is a country in which Arabs are not discriminated against and in which there is free speech. Hardly a bastion of democracy...

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 10:55 AM

77% of Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:01 AM

Not an answer. Just read the article and still tell me that there's free speech and no discrimination...

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:34 AM

"Not an answer. "
Course it isn't - what is missed out is how many have been driven out and those remaining have nowhere to go so, as Israel is their home, they would be forced into refugee camps if they left
A IT MORE REALISTIC PICTURE HERE
MUCH MORE DETAILS HERE
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Irish V Irish V British & the Famine
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 12:49 PM

"Indeed [Israel is a country of] all of its citizens," Cheshin said, "Jews and non-Jews are 'shareholders' in the country, and the statement that the state is 'a state of all its citizens' does not detract from the state's being a Jewish state, and, if you will, the state of the Jewish people.

"We should remember and know – how could we forget? – that the Jewish people did not have – did not have and doesn't have – another country other than the State of Israel," Cheshin said, "but within the country, all of the citizens of the state have equal rights. And in our view, it would not be right to rule that someone who says that the State of Israel is a 'state of all its citizens' is denying the existence of the state as a Jewish state, in and of itself."

Supreme Court Justice Mishael Cheshin in his ruling handed down almost a quarter-century ago, in April 1996, a month before Netanyahu's first term as prime minister began.