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BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand

Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 19 - 04:41 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Mar 19 - 05:20 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 10:20 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 10:21 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 19 - 10:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 10:52 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 19 - 11:15 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 11:52 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 11:57 AM
Jack Campin 15 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM
Mrrzy 15 Mar 19 - 12:24 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM
Mossback 15 Mar 19 - 02:12 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 02:37 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 02:39 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 03:01 PM
robomatic 15 Mar 19 - 03:36 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 19 - 03:43 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 04:01 PM
robomatic 15 Mar 19 - 04:24 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Mar 19 - 05:08 PM
Mossback 15 Mar 19 - 10:19 PM
Jack Campin 16 Mar 19 - 02:06 AM
Jon Freeman 16 Mar 19 - 02:42 AM
Mr Red 16 Mar 19 - 03:18 AM
punkfolkrocker 16 Mar 19 - 03:45 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Mar 19 - 03:46 AM
punkfolkrocker 16 Mar 19 - 03:47 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Mar 19 - 04:21 AM
keberoxu 16 Mar 19 - 11:23 PM
Mr Red 17 Mar 19 - 05:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Mar 19 - 05:18 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Mar 19 - 06:57 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Mar 19 - 07:28 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Mar 19 - 03:50 AM
BobL 18 Mar 19 - 04:47 AM
Jack Campin 18 Mar 19 - 05:29 AM
Donuel 18 Mar 19 - 06:30 AM
Sandra in Sydney 18 Mar 19 - 08:33 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 09:06 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Mar 19 - 09:12 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 09:20 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Mar 19 - 10:08 AM
Donuel 18 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM
Backwoodsman 18 Mar 19 - 12:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Mar 19 - 06:11 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Mar 19 - 07:34 PM
Mr Red 19 Mar 19 - 03:36 AM
Iains 19 Mar 19 - 05:53 AM
Jack Campin 19 Mar 19 - 06:59 AM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Mar 19 - 08:01 PM

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Subject: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 04:41 AM

Mass shootings at mosques in Christchurch

Awful, awful atrocities. My sympathies go out to all concerned.

Will there be the same outrage as with Islamist terrorist attacks? Will these people be terrorists or unhinged loners?


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 05:20 AM

The PM of NZ has already described this as a terrorist attack, Dave. And there appear to have been several accomplices, currently being investigated, so definitely not an 'unhinged loner'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM

Leader of attack was an Australian - 48 dead so far
The attacker filmed his attack on a camera and posted it on Facebook where it was cheered on by hundreds of messages of support
The terrorist killer claims to belong to belong to no organisation but has been in contact with other extremist groups throughout the world (be interesting to see how many of ours are among them)
He described himself as a "right wing fascist"
The attack is being compared to the Norwegian massacre though it exceeds the number of dead of that attack
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:20 AM

It was too easy to find recordings of his streamed video.
That video and interaction with enthusiastic supporter viewers
may turn out to be his primary intention...

A depraved loser's lust for self glorifying publicity and notoriity...

I watched the first few minutes while he was driving.. [transgressive curiosity..]
fortunately buffering from downloaders demand made any more unwatchable...

However of interest to mudcatters is the song on his car sound system
which was a very good Balkanish sounding folk song..

Was that a coincidental broadcast on the radio,
or his own CD/tape/mp3 of a stirring European fascist song...???

Problem is, it is a bloody good tuen and performance..
even though I haven't a clue what the lyrics mean, or who the performer is...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:21 AM

tune...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:38 AM

"A depraved loser's lust for self glorifying publicity and notority..."
A bit more than that unfortunately
There were four people involved, three have been arrested so far, and the police are describing it as a carefully planned attach which has taken two years to prepare
The Australian leader put up a seventy page manifesto outlining his policies, which largely were "to rid his country of "invaders"
It's far too dangerous to write this off as the work of a nutter - the police are taking very seriously and are saying that New Zealand was carefully chosen because of its generally non-violent nature
They seem to believe that this will not be the last of these incidents and moves are afoot in Australia to tighten up their security
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:52 AM

Jim - I don't disagree or minimise this worthless ****s individual horrifying terrorist attack
as the actions of a lone nutter...

It may only be a small organized terrorist cell,
and they will have direct propagandist links all over the world..
but on a bigger scale they are extreme symptoms of an increasingly spreading fanatical ideology...

I know of at least one rabble rousing 'popularist' youtube channel
based only within a few miles of where I live in our provincial west country...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 11:15 AM

Seeing as Australia is made up of immigrants it is very ironic that the Australian perpetrator was worried about immigration. Without making too light of it, it is sad to see that Eric Bogle's 'I hate wogs' proves the true words spoken in jest maxim :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 11:52 AM

In 1992 Australia spawned the movie "Romper Stomper" a divisive and very good depiction of a n@zi skinhead gang..
A serious drama, and lurid exploitation - a cake and eat it entertainment...
Liberal lefties and far right skins all admire this film for their own reasons...

25 years later a sequel TV series updated the themes to white Aussies v muslims...
This sparked widespread social media outrage and conflict betweem opposing ends of the political spectrum...

Possible fallout .. inflaming the hatred that lead to Christchurch...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 11:57 AM

However, a TV series, song, or any arts, and cultural product must not be scapegoated...

That's a too easy kneejerk reaction..

The song I mentioned a few posts ago might be entirely innocent..
But will forever be tainted as the soundtrack to the start of the evil Christchurch massacre...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM

Maybe somebody can mp3-convert that song and upload it in isolation?


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 12:24 PM

What Dave the Gnome said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

Jack - I've been thinking of the practicalities of doing just that.. no promises...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 02:12 PM

If you want to consider " inflaming the hatred" be sure to thank President Pornstar for his support for and approval of white supremacists, Nazis, the KKK, Islamophobes (individuals & organizations), racists, bigots, anti-immigration crazies, miscellaneous right-wing lunatics,autocrats and other examples of "very fine folks".


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 02:37 PM

"Islamophobes (individuals & organizations), racists, bigots, anti-immigration crazies, miscellaneous right-wing lunatics,autocrats and other examples of "very fine folks"."

I see 'em all offered up daily for my leisurely viewing on youtube...

Recently they've infiltrated and taken over vidoes concerning super heroes and comic books, marvel & DC movies,
to aggressively promote a virulent anti-left/liberal, anti feminist, anti everything progressive, agenda to children and teenagers...

Problem is if you monitor these things, the more youtube viewing algorithms
dictate that's all you're interested in watching..

But as much as I'd like to discuss such pernicious propaganda here,
I refuse to name and promote their channels...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 02:39 PM

Jack - check yer PMs...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 03:01 PM

"Recently they've infiltrated and taken over vidoes concerning super heroes and comic books, marvel & DC movies,"

oops.. went a bit clumsy with the editing
that should have continued...

..the new Star Wars movies, Dr Who, etc...


Btw.. Guitar channels are also dominated by a pro right wing libertarian normalising agenda...

yep, the world wide influence from USA based reactionary fanatics is inescapable...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 03:36 PM

The contrast of Australian perps locating their violence in New Zealand is interesting.

Australia and New Zealand are completely different environments and populations and histories. And of course the old saying I'd hear in New Zealand that tourists imagined "when the tide's out, you can walk across" couldn't be farther from the truth. They're 1,000 miles apart, just closer to each other than to any other major populations on earth.

I'm intrigued by PFR's take on the tune. It might seem a small point, but it might not be. Random memory of the torture scene in Reservoir Dogs done with the song "Stuck in the Middle" played on purpose by the torturer. Or an assassination in "Savages" done to the opening music of Brahms' First Symphony, for which I will never forgive Oliver Stone.

There is an online context to this outrage; it should be followed up and I'm sure it will be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 03:43 PM

be sure to thank President Pornstar

I think Nigel Farage and his merry band of racists deserve a mention too. Do these people understand the consequences of their rhetoric and not care or are they purposely stiring up race hate for their own political ends?

Truly sickening


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 04:01 PM

Robo - I honestly don't know...

It was well in the early hours of UK morning and I was morbidly/educationally curious
how easily linked and viewable the video would be...

It all depends if the song was just pure coincidence on the car radio at that moment;
or if the evil shooter deliberately chose it for contrived dramatic effect
as part of his pre-planned exploitational propaganda media streaming event...

I started watching the shooter's mundane pre massacre drive with grim fascination,
and then the song started playing, and I was hooked on trying to record and identify it...

I have an affinity for East European music, and I immediately liked what I heard.
But not knowing the meaning of the lyrics, or it's cultural/historical context,
.. it's a complete mystery why this song might have been a deliberate choice...

I stopped viewing at the end of the song, and don't know if I will ever watch it in it's entirety..
I can't justify that to myself right now...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 04:24 PM

PFR: I saw the movie "Romper Stomper" not too long ago. It reminded me of a book written by an American who spent a year with a group of English football hooligans: "Amongst The Thugs".


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 05:08 PM

Robo - I watched it again recently in preparation for the sequel TV series,
but didn't get round to watching the series.

It is still a problematic experience,
and holds up as a 'good movie' - not too dated... unlike the more pretentious
Clockwork Orange...

There was a very good nostalgia movie about British Skins "This is England" 2006..
Which is a better socio historic drama than "Romper"..

Which also followed up with sequel TV soap series I never got round to watching...

More recently, a USA movie "Green Room" is a chilling near horror movie about n@zi skins..
It's excellent.. if you can tolerate such transgressive entertainment..


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:19 PM

This Article Is Worth Reading:

POLITICS 03/15/2019 04:38 pm ET
The New Zealand Shooter’s Rhetoric Sounds Like Something You Might Hear In Congress

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/new-zealand-shooter-steve-king-louie-gohmert-rhetoric_n_5c8bf2e4e4b0db7da9f3213c


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 02:06 AM

Web services don't make it as easy to share sound files as it used to be (Google Drive sometimes works), so I still haven't heard the song PFR was talking about. One kind of anti-Muslim Eastern European music a Trump fan might listen to is Serbian "turbofolk", the sound track of the war against Bosnia. But that's just a guess and I haven't kept up to date with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 02:42 AM

From a BBC report

A song which played in the suspect's car is known as a marching anthem for Serbian nationalist paramilitary units known as Chetniks during the 1992-95 Bosnian war.

It praises Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic, who was convicted of genocide and war crimes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 03:18 AM

AS if Christchurch hasn't suffered enough lately


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 03:45 AM

Jon - that confirms my suspicions he was signalling connections & solidarity to encourage European neo n@zis..

Shame it's such a good sounding song...

Tough, song title and artist would be useful info...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 03:46 AM

Jacinda Ardern has declared that NZ gun-laws 'will change'. Precisely how, and to what degree remains to be seen, but at least the will is there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 03:47 AM

Though, song title and artist would be useful info...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 04:21 AM

This massacre should be regarded as a shot fired over the head of society - not as a single incident but a warning of what is happening in world politics
Brievik must be chortling in his cell
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 11:23 PM

Death total up to fifty now.
Could increase -- some of the hospitalized were horribly injured.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 05:11 AM

Social media are heading for regulation. Governments want it (for any number of reasons), the public won't argue and IMNSHO it is overdue.

Goggle & Fakebook et al throw their hands up in horror and say it can't be done. Huh? You can do 'most anything with technology and people. All it takes is money and let's face it those two have plenty of that.

Like IBM, like the "Big Stink" - there comes a time when governments wake up. But it takes a watershed to!


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 05:18 AM

Social media are heading for regulation.

That would be a good thing but while rags like the Daily Mail can get away with stirring up race hatred it will be pretty pointless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 06:57 AM

It's reported this morning that Amazon have cashed in on this crime by selling copies of the manifesto put out by the killer
Funny thing big business
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 07:28 AM

The tragedy deepens. The killer claims Trump as an inspiration.

Imagine that! A president of the United States.....

Not Trumps fault perhaps. I seem to remember one serial killer was inspired by the bible.

Still you can sort of see it. Building walls to protect us from aliens...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 03:50 AM

Australian senator blames Muslims

Didn't take long for the victim blamers to crawl out of the woodwork did it. I hope he gets kicked out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: BobL
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 04:47 AM

When something results from a chain of causes, in this case immigration + intolerance + lax gun enforcement, only axe-grinders will pinpoint a single cause.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 05:29 AM

Immigration was NOT a cause. Trump-inspired hate-mongering about it was. NZ doesn't have the widespread paranoia about immigration you get in Australia, the US and England - this was the US hate industry recruiting yet another dimwitted soldier abroad, using the methods they learned from ISIS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:30 AM

Trump remarks on White Nationalists:
They're good people (on both sides)
They are a small number of people with large problems.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 08:33 AM

Christchurch schoolboys perform haka in show of respect for attack victims

Abdul Aziz: The man who saved lives by running at the Christchurch gunman


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 09:06 AM

Terrorist attack in reported from Utrecht in Holland - police have advised Muslims o close their mosques
New Zealand has reacted to the massacre by declaring that it will tighten up gun laws
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 09:12 AM

far right youtubers who deny they are right wing at all because they are 'the normal people'
are dismissing Christchurch by accusing the shooter of being by his own admission, a communist...!!!?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 09:20 AM

This attack seems to have wider connotations than just New Zealand
Social media representatives have said that they have removed 1-5 million attempts to put the film of this massacre on line - they have said they removed 1.2 million before they could be put on line
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 10:08 AM

New Zealand was picked because it is a soft target - fish in a barrel.
He is no suicide bomber.
He gave up like a frightened mouse when the cops finally caught up.
He wanted to live to preach in court to his now massive worldwide audience...


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM

There is an irony in Brave immigrants, fearful natives, courageous terrorists and Presidents who praise the white nationalists


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 12:58 PM

It's satire, but only just...

https://newsthump.com/2019/03/18/us-sends-specialist-thoughts-and-prayers-team-to-new-zealand-after-novice-pm-foolishly-contempl


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:11 PM

One impressive thing is that there were motorists driving along the road as th e massacre was proceeding who stopped their cars and got out to help fallen people - while the killer was still firing.

New Zealand people are showing up pretty well - The Prime Minister reflected a civilised and humane society in her response "They are us" and a promise to tighten gun laws where they are too loose.   Rather a contrast what we have seen in country when this sort of thing things happen, every few weeks it seems.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 07:34 PM

“Within 10 days of this horrific act of terrorism, we will have announced reforms that I believe will have made our community safer" - NZ premier Jacinda Arden.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 03:36 AM

immigration + intolerance + lax gun enforcement

It seems nye impossible to stop immigration
intolerance is endemic, it is just the degree. We look after our own, eg family.
gun laws, they can be addressed, except in the US

But Social media greases the wheels of all three, in varying degrees.

Car are useful, they can kill. We have laws for them.
Tobacco, alcohol, prescription drugs. We have laws for them.
They have their uses, and we want them, but accept the dangers and concomitant laws.
Social media is proving useful, and proving it carries dangers. I see no reason not to have laws. The implementation may be a minefield but by comparison its inception was easy! As I say it just takes money to get a better balance, and the funds could be found by Fakebook & Goggle. They just need a prod (with teeth!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 05:53 AM

Who censors the censors?


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 06:59 AM

In the 50s the major non-Anglophone immigrant group in NZ was the Dutch. I did once meet a guy who was convinced the Dutch were out to get him. He was a patient in the mental hospital I briefly worked at. He also slept with the bedclothes over his face to stop people dropping germs in his nose and was terrified of touching the nursing staff because they were made of copper, he was made of zinc, and he could get corroded away by an electrochemical reaction. Most New Zealanders would think that's typical of xenophobes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 08:01 PM

There have to be ways to end anonymity, which enables people post to stuff that would be liable to open them to prosecution in other settings would risk serious consequences without any fear of consequences. It should be impossible to use any social media site without having provided identity and contact details.

The international nature of the Internet makes all this harder, and there'd be ways of getting round anything, but it would be possible to make it mipuch harder for the internet terrorists and their friends.


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