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BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand
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Subject: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Mar 19 - 04:41 AM Mass shootings at mosques in Christchurch Awful, awful atrocities. My sympathies go out to all concerned. Will there be the same outrage as with Islamist terrorist attacks? Will these people be terrorists or unhinged loners? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Backwoodsman Date: 15 Mar 19 - 05:20 AM The PM of NZ has already described this as a terrorist attack, Dave. And there appear to have been several accomplices, currently being investigated, so definitely not an 'unhinged loner'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM Leader of attack was an Australian - 48 dead so far The attacker filmed his attack on a camera and posted it on Facebook where it was cheered on by hundreds of messages of support The terrorist killer claims to belong to belong to no organisation but has been in contact with other extremist groups throughout the world (be interesting to see how many of ours are among them) He described himself as a "right wing fascist" The attack is being compared to the Norwegian massacre though it exceeds the number of dead of that attack Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:20 AM It was too easy to find recordings of his streamed video. That video and interaction with enthusiastic supporter viewers may turn out to be his primary intention... A depraved loser's lust for self glorifying publicity and notoriity... I watched the first few minutes while he was driving.. [transgressive curiosity..] fortunately buffering from downloaders demand made any more unwatchable... However of interest to mudcatters is the song on his car sound system which was a very good Balkanish sounding folk song.. Was that a coincidental broadcast on the radio, or his own CD/tape/mp3 of a stirring European fascist song...??? Problem is, it is a bloody good tuen and performance.. even though I haven't a clue what the lyrics mean, or who the performer is... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:21 AM tune... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:38 AM "A depraved loser's lust for self glorifying publicity and notority..." A bit more than that unfortunately There were four people involved, three have been arrested so far, and the police are describing it as a carefully planned attach which has taken two years to prepare The Australian leader put up a seventy page manifesto outlining his policies, which largely were "to rid his country of "invaders" It's far too dangerous to write this off as the work of a nutter - the police are taking very seriously and are saying that New Zealand was carefully chosen because of its generally non-violent nature They seem to believe that this will not be the last of these incidents and moves are afoot in Australia to tighten up their security Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:52 AM Jim - I don't disagree or minimise this worthless ****s individual horrifying terrorist attack as the actions of a lone nutter... It may only be a small organized terrorist cell, and they will have direct propagandist links all over the world.. but on a bigger scale they are extreme symptoms of an increasingly spreading fanatical ideology... I know of at least one rabble rousing 'popularist' youtube channel based only within a few miles of where I live in our provincial west country... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Mar 19 - 11:15 AM Seeing as Australia is made up of immigrants it is very ironic that the Australian perpetrator was worried about immigration. Without making too light of it, it is sad to see that Eric Bogle's 'I hate wogs' proves the true words spoken in jest maxim :-( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 11:52 AM In 1992 Australia spawned the movie "Romper Stomper" a divisive and very good depiction of a n@zi skinhead gang.. A serious drama, and lurid exploitation - a cake and eat it entertainment... Liberal lefties and far right skins all admire this film for their own reasons... 25 years later a sequel TV series updated the themes to white Aussies v muslims... This sparked widespread social media outrage and conflict betweem opposing ends of the political spectrum... Possible fallout .. inflaming the hatred that lead to Christchurch...????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 11:57 AM However, a TV series, song, or any arts, and cultural product must not be scapegoated... That's a too easy kneejerk reaction.. The song I mentioned a few posts ago might be entirely innocent.. But will forever be tainted as the soundtrack to the start of the evil Christchurch massacre... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jack Campin Date: 15 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM Maybe somebody can mp3-convert that song and upload it in isolation? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Mrrzy Date: 15 Mar 19 - 12:24 PM What Dave the Gnome said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM Jack - I've been thinking of the practicalities of doing just that.. no promises... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Mossback Date: 15 Mar 19 - 02:12 PM If you want to consider " inflaming the hatred" be sure to thank President Pornstar for his support for and approval of white supremacists, Nazis, the KKK, Islamophobes (individuals & organizations), racists, bigots, anti-immigration crazies, miscellaneous right-wing lunatics,autocrats and other examples of "very fine folks". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 02:37 PM "Islamophobes (individuals & organizations), racists, bigots, anti-immigration crazies, miscellaneous right-wing lunatics,autocrats and other examples of "very fine folks"." I see 'em all offered up daily for my leisurely viewing on youtube... Recently they've infiltrated and taken over vidoes concerning super heroes and comic books, marvel & DC movies, to aggressively promote a virulent anti-left/liberal, anti feminist, anti everything progressive, agenda to children and teenagers... Problem is if you monitor these things, the more youtube viewing algorithms dictate that's all you're interested in watching.. But as much as I'd like to discuss such pernicious propaganda here, I refuse to name and promote their channels... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 02:39 PM Jack - check yer PMs... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 03:01 PM "Recently they've infiltrated and taken over vidoes concerning super heroes and comic books, marvel & DC movies," oops.. went a bit clumsy with the editing that should have continued... ..the new Star Wars movies, Dr Who, etc... Btw.. Guitar channels are also dominated by a pro right wing libertarian normalising agenda... yep, the world wide influence from USA based reactionary fanatics is inescapable... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: robomatic Date: 15 Mar 19 - 03:36 PM The contrast of Australian perps locating their violence in New Zealand is interesting. Australia and New Zealand are completely different environments and populations and histories. And of course the old saying I'd hear in New Zealand that tourists imagined "when the tide's out, you can walk across" couldn't be farther from the truth. They're 1,000 miles apart, just closer to each other than to any other major populations on earth. I'm intrigued by PFR's take on the tune. It might seem a small point, but it might not be. Random memory of the torture scene in Reservoir Dogs done with the song "Stuck in the Middle" played on purpose by the torturer. Or an assassination in "Savages" done to the opening music of Brahms' First Symphony, for which I will never forgive Oliver Stone. There is an online context to this outrage; it should be followed up and I'm sure it will be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Mar 19 - 03:43 PM be sure to thank President Pornstar I think Nigel Farage and his merry band of racists deserve a mention too. Do these people understand the consequences of their rhetoric and not care or are they purposely stiring up race hate for their own political ends? Truly sickening |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 04:01 PM Robo - I honestly don't know... It was well in the early hours of UK morning and I was morbidly/educationally curious how easily linked and viewable the video would be... It all depends if the song was just pure coincidence on the car radio at that moment; or if the evil shooter deliberately chose it for contrived dramatic effect as part of his pre-planned exploitational propaganda media streaming event... I started watching the shooter's mundane pre massacre drive with grim fascination, and then the song started playing, and I was hooked on trying to record and identify it... I have an affinity for East European music, and I immediately liked what I heard. But not knowing the meaning of the lyrics, or it's cultural/historical context, .. it's a complete mystery why this song might have been a deliberate choice... I stopped viewing at the end of the song, and don't know if I will ever watch it in it's entirety.. I can't justify that to myself right now... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: robomatic Date: 15 Mar 19 - 04:24 PM PFR: I saw the movie "Romper Stomper" not too long ago. It reminded me of a book written by an American who spent a year with a group of English football hooligans: "Amongst The Thugs". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Mar 19 - 05:08 PM Robo - I watched it again recently in preparation for the sequel TV series, but didn't get round to watching the series. It is still a problematic experience, and holds up as a 'good movie' - not too dated... unlike the more pretentious Clockwork Orange... There was a very good nostalgia movie about British Skins "This is England" 2006.. Which is a better socio historic drama than "Romper".. Which also followed up with sequel TV soap series I never got round to watching... More recently, a USA movie "Green Room" is a chilling near horror movie about n@zi skins.. It's excellent.. if you can tolerate such transgressive entertainment.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Mossback Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:19 PM This Article Is Worth Reading: POLITICS 03/15/2019 04:38 pm ET The New Zealand Shooter’s Rhetoric Sounds Like Something You Might Hear In Congress https://www.huffpost.com/entry/new-zealand-shooter-steve-king-louie-gohmert-rhetoric_n_5c8bf2e4e4b0db7da9f3213c |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jack Campin Date: 16 Mar 19 - 02:06 AM Web services don't make it as easy to share sound files as it used to be (Google Drive sometimes works), so I still haven't heard the song PFR was talking about. One kind of anti-Muslim Eastern European music a Trump fan might listen to is Serbian "turbofolk", the sound track of the war against Bosnia. But that's just a guess and I haven't kept up to date with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jon Freeman Date: 16 Mar 19 - 02:42 AM From a BBC report A song which played in the suspect's car is known as a marching anthem for Serbian nationalist paramilitary units known as Chetniks during the 1992-95 Bosnian war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Mr Red Date: 16 Mar 19 - 03:18 AM AS if Christchurch hasn't suffered enough lately |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Mar 19 - 03:45 AM Jon - that confirms my suspicions he was signalling connections & solidarity to encourage European neo n@zis.. Shame it's such a good sounding song... Tough, song title and artist would be useful info... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Backwoodsman Date: 16 Mar 19 - 03:46 AM Jacinda Ardern has declared that NZ gun-laws 'will change'. Precisely how, and to what degree remains to be seen, but at least the will is there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Mar 19 - 03:47 AM Though, song title and artist would be useful info... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Mar 19 - 04:21 AM This massacre should be regarded as a shot fired over the head of society - not as a single incident but a warning of what is happening in world politics Brievik must be chortling in his cell Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: keberoxu Date: 16 Mar 19 - 11:23 PM Death total up to fifty now. Could increase -- some of the hospitalized were horribly injured. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Mr Red Date: 17 Mar 19 - 05:11 AM Social media are heading for regulation. Governments want it (for any number of reasons), the public won't argue and IMNSHO it is overdue. Goggle & Fakebook et al throw their hands up in horror and say it can't be done. Huh? You can do 'most anything with technology and people. All it takes is money and let's face it those two have plenty of that. Like IBM, like the "Big Stink" - there comes a time when governments wake up. But it takes a watershed to! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Mar 19 - 05:18 AM Social media are heading for regulation. That would be a good thing but while rags like the Daily Mail can get away with stirring up race hatred it will be pretty pointless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jim Carroll Date: 17 Mar 19 - 06:57 AM It's reported this morning that Amazon have cashed in on this crime by selling copies of the manifesto put out by the killer Funny thing big business Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Mar 19 - 07:28 AM The tragedy deepens. The killer claims Trump as an inspiration. Imagine that! A president of the United States..... Not Trumps fault perhaps. I seem to remember one serial killer was inspired by the bible. Still you can sort of see it. Building walls to protect us from aliens... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Mar 19 - 03:50 AM Australian senator blames Muslims Didn't take long for the victim blamers to crawl out of the woodwork did it. I hope he gets kicked out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: BobL Date: 18 Mar 19 - 04:47 AM When something results from a chain of causes, in this case immigration + intolerance + lax gun enforcement, only axe-grinders will pinpoint a single cause. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jack Campin Date: 18 Mar 19 - 05:29 AM Immigration was NOT a cause. Trump-inspired hate-mongering about it was. NZ doesn't have the widespread paranoia about immigration you get in Australia, the US and England - this was the US hate industry recruiting yet another dimwitted soldier abroad, using the methods they learned from ISIS. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Donuel Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:30 AM Trump remarks on White Nationalists: They're good people (on both sides) They are a small number of people with large problems. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 18 Mar 19 - 08:33 AM Christchurch schoolboys perform haka in show of respect for attack victims Abdul Aziz: The man who saved lives by running at the Christchurch gunman |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Mar 19 - 09:06 AM Terrorist attack in reported from Utrecht in Holland - police have advised Muslims o close their mosques New Zealand has reacted to the massacre by declaring that it will tighten up gun laws Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Mar 19 - 09:12 AM far right youtubers who deny they are right wing at all because they are 'the normal people' are dismissing Christchurch by accusing the shooter of being by his own admission, a communist...!!!????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Mar 19 - 09:20 AM This attack seems to have wider connotations than just New Zealand Social media representatives have said that they have removed 1-5 million attempts to put the film of this massacre on line - they have said they removed 1.2 million before they could be put on line Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Mar 19 - 10:08 AM New Zealand was picked because it is a soft target - fish in a barrel. He is no suicide bomber. He gave up like a frightened mouse when the cops finally caught up. He wanted to live to preach in court to his now massive worldwide audience... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Donuel Date: 18 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM There is an irony in Brave immigrants, fearful natives, courageous terrorists and Presidents who praise the white nationalists |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Backwoodsman Date: 18 Mar 19 - 12:58 PM It's satire, but only just... https://newsthump.com/2019/03/18/us-sends-specialist-thoughts-and-prayers-team-to-new-zealand-after-novice-pm-foolishly-contempl |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:11 PM One impressive thing is that there were motorists driving along the road as th e massacre was proceeding who stopped their cars and got out to help fallen people - while the killer was still firing. New Zealand people are showing up pretty well - The Prime Minister reflected a civilised and humane society in her response "They are us" and a promise to tighten gun laws where they are too loose. Rather a contrast what we have seen in country when this sort of thing things happen, every few weeks it seems. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 19 - 07:34 PM “Within 10 days of this horrific act of terrorism, we will have announced reforms that I believe will have made our community safer" - NZ premier Jacinda Arden. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Mr Red Date: 19 Mar 19 - 03:36 AM immigration + intolerance + lax gun enforcement It seems nye impossible to stop immigration intolerance is endemic, it is just the degree. We look after our own, eg family. gun laws, they can be addressed, except in the US But Social media greases the wheels of all three, in varying degrees. Car are useful, they can kill. We have laws for them. Tobacco, alcohol, prescription drugs. We have laws for them. They have their uses, and we want them, but accept the dangers and concomitant laws. Social media is proving useful, and proving it carries dangers. I see no reason not to have laws. The implementation may be a minefield but by comparison its inception was easy! As I say it just takes money to get a better balance, and the funds could be found by Fakebook & Goggle. They just need a prod (with teeth!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Iains Date: 19 Mar 19 - 05:53 AM Who censors the censors? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jack Campin Date: 19 Mar 19 - 06:59 AM In the 50s the major non-Anglophone immigrant group in NZ was the Dutch. I did once meet a guy who was convinced the Dutch were out to get him. He was a patient in the mental hospital I briefly worked at. He also slept with the bedclothes over his face to stop people dropping germs in his nose and was terrified of touching the nursing staff because they were made of copper, he was made of zinc, and he could get corroded away by an electrochemical reaction. Most New Zealanders would think that's typical of xenophobes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Mar 19 - 08:01 PM There have to be ways to end anonymity, which enables people post to stuff that would be liable to open them to prosecution in other settings would risk serious consequences without any fear of consequences. It should be impossible to use any social media site without having provided identity and contact details. The international nature of the Internet makes all this harder, and there'd be ways of getting round anything, but it would be possible to make it mipuch harder for the internet terrorists and their friends. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Mr Red Date: 21 Mar 19 - 05:08 AM Who censors the censors? Short Sighted question beloved of Short Sighted people. In the US they have the Supreme Court, In the UK we have the House of Lords. An acceptable model on which to base a system IMNSHO. Nothing is impossible, it just takes money. And laws in any jurisprudence mostly act retrospectively. But work by threat of retribution. Thus limiting the instances of transgression and workload thereto. There was a program on BBC4 the Cleaners: the internet's dirtiest secrets - a firm in the Philippines who employ censors, working for Goggle. They have to reach a target of 25,000 images per shift. There are burn-outs and casualties. Censorship has many consequences, and not all can be addressed with fatuous questions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Backwoodsman Date: 21 Mar 19 - 07:15 AM Unfortunately, 'fatuous' is all some people have got. I wonder if Trumpy is observing the strength of character of Jacinda Ardhern in dealing with this tragedy, and taking strong action to try to prevent it happening again? There's a lot that he, and the people of the US, could learn from this remarkable young woman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 Mar 19 - 04:39 PM Actually America should put observers on the ground and see ho this is accomplished. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Backwoodsman Date: 21 Mar 19 - 05:45 PM They should. But they won't, the NRA, and the American gun-loonies wouldn't wear it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Helen Date: 28 Mar 19 - 02:56 PM In Australia, the "backlash" is a huge numbers of people from all of our diverse culture coming together with Muslims to mourn the loss of their people in Christchurch. So this appears to be a case of the opposite result that the terrorist was hoping for. Jack Campin said, "NZ doesn't have the widespread paranoia about immigration you get in Australia" but what I see here is a diverse culture being celebrated by most Australians and a firm commitment by almost all politicians to make laws to uphold the right to be who you are in our society. Re politicians, this party is the exception: One Nation wanted millions from the NRA while planning to soften Australia's gun laws. This documentary was aired this week and it does not surprise me that Pauline Hanson and the other members of the One Nation political party think they are above the law and that they can manipulate the system and the government. There are a couple of ironies in this story. One is that it is not so long ago that Pauline Hanson supported Australia's tightened gun laws in parliament, and the other is that the pollies shown in the documentary are now upset because their rights were violated because they had been secretly filmed for the documentary. Now, don't get me wrong.I know Oz has a long way to go to achieve complete acceptance of all of our citizens and residents, but I think we are on the right track. This song appears to be Oz's unofficial national anthem (this topic deserves its own thread) but I checked and it was written by two folk musicians Bruce Woodley of The Seekers (folk group formed in the 60's)) and Dobe Newton of The Bushwackers (folk group formed in the early 70's). There's a pat on the back for folkies! I Am Australian We are one, but we are many And from all the lands on earth we come We'll share a dream and sing with one voice "I am, you are, we are Australian" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jim Carroll Date: 29 Mar 19 - 11:05 AM I was incredibly moved earlier today at the New Zealand gathering to remember the dead of the massacre Would that our own politicians and people would display the same compassion and alacrity Just learned that yet another several year old plan for an Asylum Seekers refuge has been abandoned Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Terror attacks in New Zealand From: Jack Campin Date: 11 Mar 20 - 08:53 AM Aftermath for some of the rescuers: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/120012846/haunted--life-has-changed-for-the-good-samaritans-of-the-march-15-attack |
